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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 05:46 PM
Original message
Rumsfeld's arrogant words in 2003 on the looting of Iraq..."Stuff happens"
This man will probably go unpunished for his indignities and crimes to a country that was no threat to us. Those words were so ignorant, so appalling, so lacking in caring about a country's heritage.

I remember that day, as I am remembering a lot of things now leading up to the invasion of Iraq. I will not call it a war...it was an invasion and occupation.

From CNN April 11, 2003.

Rumsfeld on looting in Iraq: 'Stuff happens'


Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, left, makes a point as Gen. Richard Myers looks at his notes.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Declaring that freedom is "untidy," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Friday the looting in Iraq was a result of "pent-up feelings" of oppression and that it would subside as Iraqis adjusted to life without Saddam Hussein.

He also asserted the looting was not as bad as some television and newspaper reports have indicated and said there was no major crisis in Baghdad, the capital city, which lacks a central governing authority. The looting, he suggested, was "part of the price" for what the United States and Britain have called the liberation of Iraq.

"Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things," Rumsfeld said. "They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here."


Looting, he added, was not uncommon for countries that experience significant social upheaval. "Stuff happens," Rumsfeld said. Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, agreed. "This is a transition period between war and what we hope will be a much more peaceful time," Myers said.


Part of the price to pay for freedom? That wonderful gift of freedom we gave them?

Most Americans had no clue we were bombing and destroying cities prominently mentioned in the Bible and history. The Cradles of Civilization supposedly.

It had been conquered and re-conquered a dozen or more times, by (among others) the Akkadians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Macedonians, Parthians, Arabs, Ottomans and British, and in February 1991, yet another foreign power raised its flag over the ancient city of Ur, near the mouth of the Euphrates: the Americans. Daring the allies to bomb the birthplace of the patriarch Abraham, Iraqis had parked their jets near Ur's 4,000-year-old ziggurat, but the planes were shot up all the same. American soldiers toured the ancient tower, then got out their entrenching tools and began digging for souvenirs. A forlorn Iraqi gatekeeper ran among them, wailing protests in Arabic, until U.S. officers put a stop to the looting. Last week, when NEWSWEEK visited the site, it was virtually deserted, except for a lone guide, the son of the old gatekeeper, keeping a wary eye on the American and British warplanes streaking overhead. "Ninety-nine percent of Americans don't know the country they'll be bombing is Mesopotamia," says Dr. Huda Ammash, a high-ranking Baath Party official. "Our country has served humanity for so long, now it's up to the international community to help protect Iraq."

Babylonian Booty, Newsweek, 2003


From a blogger who spent years studying these civilizations:

Raping History

After the first Gulf War, there were widespread reports of looting of museums, so the Pentagon created special units designed to protect cultural sites that happened to be inside a combat zone. Then came the war in Iraq.

As is now well known and documented, the Baghdad Museum, perhaps the single most important repository of material culture from the Cradle of Western Civilization, was sacked and looted. The cultural protection units who might have stopped this were not even deployed. No more than fifty men would have been enough to secure this treasure house, but it was left to the ravages of the mob. Then-Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld shrugged it off with his usual indifference to tragedy, and the world took a few steps closer to viewing the invasion of Iraq as the work of the forces of a militarist, imperial government ruled by a mad cowboy.


He posts a before and after picture of an ancient artifact.


The Warka Vase, one of the oldest (ca. 3,000 BCE) depictions of a ritual, stolen in April 2003 from the Baghdad Museum. the photo on the left shows its pre-war condition, the photo on the right the condition in which it was returned. Photo copyright Hirmer Verlag, Munich.


The blogger concludes with these words.

If you ask me why we should care about a bunch of artifacts of a dead civilization, I can only wonder how dead your soul must be. Years ago, french assyriologist Jean Bottero wrote an essay entitled "In Defense of a Useless Science", as some may consider the study of such arcana. But to some extent, Bottero's essay was useless; you either have the maturity, depth, knowledge, and wisdom to appreciate the value of our shared ancient material culture or you don't.

War is a destroyer of cultures, but in this case the culture is that of the western world, along with a fair share of the east. I do not doubt that fairly or unfairly, future scholars and historians will mention the American invasion of Iraq in the same breath along with the Germans at Louvain, or the Romans or Muslims at Alexandria.


The last eight years are coming to a close. Whether we leave Iraq, whether we expand the war in Afghanistan....there will be no undoing of the lives we have taken and the history allowed to be destroyed.

The blogger's words are so true.

..the world took a few steps closer to viewing the invasion of Iraq as the work of the forces of a militarist, imperial government ruled by a mad cowboy.


And of a Secretary of Defense who thinks "stuff happens." And whose soul indeed must feel very dead.




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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. It makes me bitter to see these guys just walk away.
With no consequences.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I never understood why the fundies weren't outraged by all the looting
and destruction of artifacts that date back to events described in the Old Testament.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Because their Vengeful God was, obviously, pretty pissed off at Saddam.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Looting and destruction don't matter in light of the end times.
That seems to be their thinking. It doesn't make sense to me at all.

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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. they don't understand
nor read the bible. They just listen occasionally to other people quote it to them. In other words they wouldn't care unless someone told them to care.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Yes, they sit in a pew and believe what they are told.
I know because I used to do that when I was younger.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Another great post I found at the Cognito blog I quoted above.
Above under the title of "Raping History".

This post is titled Willful Ignorance Becomes a Virtue

It fits so well into these times of ours when the religious right is deliberately trying to dumb us down by making the Bible the final word on every subject.

Anti-intellectualism is an American tradition; for whatever reasons, the knowledgeable individual, the brilliant thinker will have their detractors who are not so much in disagreement with what they think or believe, but with their presence. Religious dynamics have driven much of this; the great majority of the Founding Fathers were highly educated products of the Enlightenment. Many of them were deists and held a highly intellectual and sophisticated view of God and his relationship to humanity. They tended to dismiss or at least disregard the more sensational, miraculous aspects of traditional Christianity.

Gradually traditional Christianity had its revenge with the Second Great Awakening, a massive revivalist movement in the early 19th Century. Some of the movers and shakers of this movement claimed that deism and the rationality of the Enlightenment was a path to atheism, and explicitly rejected the intellectual approach to religion favored by the deists and their allies. Explicit in this rejection was the rejection of the intellectual.

..."I lay much of the blame on our leadership, which consists of people who are openly and even proudly ignorant, and yet they continue to wield power and influence. We have intellectuals such as Paul Wolfowitz, William Kristol, or Norman Podhoretz, who, in spite of their education and (alleged) intelligence, are consistently and egregiously wrong about nearly everything on which they claim expertise. Their ability to predict events associated with the Iraq War, for instance, has proven significantly less accurate than reducing their predictions to a yes/no question and flipping a coin. And yet these people are held up as examples of intellectuals who are sufficiently competent to guide our foreign policy. The message this sends is that you can be a great leader or have extraordinary influence and still be thick as a brick.

The news media in America has abrogated its role as evaluator and sifter of claims to find the facts in favor of presenting both sides with little or no comment. The critical aspect of news reporting has dissolved, and thus Americans dont get to see real critical thinking in action. The increasing focus on celebrities, sensational crimes, entertainment news and discussion shows where pompous blowhards try to out-yell each other does nothing to lift the thinking of the average American. Add to this media outlets who are almost openly little more than propaganda outlets, Fox News being the most notable example. The rise of rhetoric and posturing in lieu of reasoned, informed discussion and debate is like acid on the brains of those who cant or wont guard against it. Intellectual discussion becomes associated with insults, put-downs, questioning ones patriotism, humanity, moral fiber, integrity, intelligence, breeding, and fitness to live. And who wants to have any part of that?


Amen.

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks, this is so sad...
and a quote I read awhile ago from an unnamed Iraqi.

"Today is better than tomorrow"

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yes, it's sad. And it can't ever be fixed.
.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Exactly, we need to remember. n/t
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you! K&R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. You're welcome. We can't forget these things we did.
We have to keep reminding ourselves. :hi:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. And you don't think some of Iraq's magnificent culture
was stolen by Bushco's goons?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Most likely...
a lot of it happened while everyone looked away.

To me it is one of the most ignorant uncaring things ever done to allow this to happen.

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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. The return of Donald Rumsfeld to the government of the United States
was a slap in the face of civilized human being everywhere. He and Cheney, two pathetic disgraced old chicken hawks, look where they brought us. And don't tell me Poopy bush** wasn't involved. Look how Carlyle Group has grown and prospered. No, this was a family affair, the bush** family evil empire (BFEE).

As a slight detour I thought I'd remind people just how pathetic and disgusting the fits so many of the female news whatevers had over old Rum-Dum at the time of shock and awe. Who was the loser that called him a stud-muffin? OH yeah:

<snip>

Do Ya Think He's Sexy? He's Vigorous. He's Direct. At Nearly 70, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld Is TV's Newest Stud

"...The sexiest man on television is a grandpop with a throaty laugh and a confidence so overpowering it's made entire countries go weak in the knees.

No doubt about it, Donald Rumsfeld is a stud muffin.

Oh sure, he's a bespectacled government bureaucrat pushing 70. But the secretary of defense has a quality that many women adore.

<snip>

Classical Roman virtues such as courage and determination, so passe in the high-flying '90s, are again in vogue.

Steely confidence is admired, in burly firemen, guys who attack armed hijackers with their bare hands, 19-year-olds who parachute into battlefields in the middle of the night - and straight-shooting Rummy, the senior with swagger.

-MORE-
- Beth Gillin, Phildelphia Inquirer, December 29, 2001
http://www.nationalcenter.org/2006/10/rumsfeld-worship-here-today-gone.html




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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Ha Ha...he was a sex symbol? "Stud muffin" ?
Oh I had forgotten about that...how people eagerly awaited his press conferences. :rofl:
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Amazing, isn't it?
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vinylsolution Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. And today, this criminal....
.... walks free, as do the other members of PNAC, who collectively called for a "New Pearl Harbor" to initiate their war-uber-alles agenda.

He should be one of the first in the dock.





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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. OT madfloridian...
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/12/11-4

"...In addition to the appearance on this Friday night's Bill Moyers' Journal that I noted yesterday, I'll be on The Rachel Maddow Show tomorrow night (Thursday) to discuss the closing of Guantanamo, the efforts already underway to make it difficult for Obama to do so, and related matters (some of those issues were raised by this excellent piece in Salon a couple of days ago by the ACLU's Jameel Jaffer and Ben Wizner). I'll try to post the exact time when I know it.

Additionally, Jim Angle of Fox News is doing a report on the John Brennan controversy for Brit Hume's program, and I was interviewed by him at length about that today. I'll post the date and time of its broadcast once I know it. It should be quite interesting to see how that ends up being edited and presented..."

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I am going to program Moyers' Journal right now, and not miss Maddow.
I am so glad to see Greenwald getting some attention. He most surely deserves it.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Me too n/t
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. The corporate profit motive appears to have been behind much of this
Robbing the Cradle of Civilization

A more ominous indicator of things to come was reported in the April 14, 2003, London Guardian: Rich American collectors with connections to the White House were busy "persuading the Pentagon to relax legislation that protects Iraq's heritage by prevention of sales abroad." On January 24, 2003 met with Bush administration and Pentagon officials to argue that a post-Saddam Iraq should have relaxed antiquities laws. Opening up private trade in Iraqi artifacts, they suggested, would offer such items better security than they could receive in Iraq Random checks of Western soldiers leaving Iraq led to the discovery of several in illegal possession of ancient objects. Customs agents in the U.S. then found more. None of these objects has as yet been sent back to Baghdad

As we now know, the American forces made no effort to prevent the looting of the great cultural institutions of Iraq, its soldiers simply watching vandals enter and torch the buildings Our troops, who have been proudly guarding the Oil Ministry, where no window is broken, deliberately condoned these horrendous events During the battle for Baghdad, the U.S. military was perfectly willing to dispatch some 2,000 troops to secure northern Iraq's oilfields

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. From your article: Heartbreaking.
"Until April 2003, the area around Ur, in the environs of Nasiriyah, was remote and sacrosanct. However, the U.S. military chose the land immediately adjacent to the ziggurat to build its huge Tallil Air Base with two runways measuring 12,000 and 9,700 feet respectively and four satellite camps. In the process, military engineers moved more than 9,500 truckloads of dirt in order to build 350,000 square feet of hangars and other facilities for aircraft and Predator unmanned drones. They completely ruined the area, the literal heartland of human civilization, for any further archaeological research or future tourism. On October 24, 2003, according to the Global Security Organization, the Army and Air Force built its own modern ziggurat. It "opened its second Burger King at Tallil. The new facility, co-located with . . . Pizza Hut, provides another Burger King restaurant so that more service men and women serving in Iraq can, if only for a moment, forget about the task at hand in the desert and get a whiff of that familiar scent that takes them back home."

Sickening.

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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kicking -- one of the most disgraceful episodes in the Bush Cheney regime. //nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
25. I despise this man so completely.
And he will walk away unscathed and smirking, I fear. As will most of them who tried to take over the middle east.
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