Toyota sales down 33.9% in November - UAW's fault?

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/35428554.html

Web Posted: 12/03/2008 12:00 CST

Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. on Tuesday reported a 33.9 percent tumble in November sales, continuing its string of monthly drops and roughly matching declines posted by other automakers.

The dismal news from the auto industry comes as the nation's “Big Three” — General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC — return to Capitol Hill seeking federal assistance to help them survive the worst sales environment in decades.

“Consumers are simply not shopping today,” Bob Carter, vice president and general manager of the Toyota brand, said during a company conference call. “It's not centered on any one type of car over the other.”

All but two of the Japanese auto company's models posted year-over-year sales declines for the month, and sales of its Tundra full-size pickup, produced in San Antonio, were down 55.9 percent. Pricey vehicles such as the Land Cruiser and Lexus GS dropped the most, falling 69.7 percent and 67.3 percent respectively.

[ogneopasno]

1. But but but! They build such great cars that EVERYONE wants to buy! BUT!

[Crazy Dave]

3. But...

Unless you have a job, a 700+ credit score or you can pay cash, you can't buy any vehicle these days

[tavalon]

22. True, but we can't afford them

I know the meme around here is that American is better but Toyota makes damn fine cars that tend to last forever.

[Deja Q]

23. Unless you buy a rental return...

[Crazy Dave]

2. The only difference is...

Toyota still has money and their using it to lobby against the bailout for the big three.

[still_one]

4. The question is how come Toyota and more so Honda are able to weather this storm

and the big three are not? That is not the UAW's fault, that is the management of the big three who overproduced huge SUVs, refused to diversify, and in regard to GM, engaged in bad financial practices through GMAC

Actually, Ford did recognize what was happening years ago, and that is why they have a better chance to weather the storm then GM or Chrysler

My only question is why should the management of GM and Chrysler, who refused to diversify their car lines keep their jobs?

[NNN0LHI]

6. The answer is that there is more than one way a government can help out an auto industry

And the Japan government does it all the time.

http://www.autoyensubsidy.org/faq.html

What does it mean that the yen is "misaligned"?

Currency misalignment takes place when a country's currency value vis-á-vis other currencies is not consistent with economic fundamentals. Most often, this reflects a policy choice carried out by governments and central banks to artificially set the value of a currency in order to gain an unfair competitive advantage over trading partners. When a country's currency is weak relative to others, its exports become cheaper to purchase in overseas markets, and imports become more expensive.

What is the effect of a misaligned yen on the U.S. auto industry?

The impact of the Japanese government actively maintaining an artificially low yen is a fundamental competitive factor for the entire U.S. auto and auto parts industry. The misaligned yen is giving the average imported Japanese car a $4000 windfall cost advantage over U.S. automakers and other competitors in the U.S. market. This ‘yen subsidy' also crosses over to Japanese vehicles made in the U.S. because of the high level of imported and subsidized auto parts used in their U.S. based plants.

[still_one]

10. I don't disagree with that, or with the fact that our trade policies are messed up

in in favor of foreign manufacturers

I am not against a bridge loan, bail-out, whatever, what disturbs me is that the same management that I believe helped drive our auto industry to where it is today is still in charge

I hope this deal save American Auto Worker Jobs, but I am very skeptical when I hear GM saying they will use some of that money to invest in South America, and close down Staturn lines. Both don't sound the workers interests are necessarily paramount

I hope I am wrong, but looking at how the "financial bailout" was handled, what resulted was essentially a bailout of the CEOs, not the workers

[Hannah Bell]

27. The yen was 350 to the dollar in the 80s, v.

were selling just fine in the US then, too.

US monetary policy has a bit to do with the value of the dollar, fyi. and the us subsidizes its industry in various ways too. for example, those nice tax breaks for offshoring.

[Crazy Dave]

14. Someone on Keith Olbermann the other night said...

When they come to Washington, D.C. with their hands stretched out that in one of them there should be a resignation and that it should be conditional. Currently the CEOs get to keep their jobs and part of their plan to pay back the money and make a profit is to lay off more workers and to invest the bail out money in more factories overseas. GM just built three new factories abroad last year.

Kind of like me asking the government to force you to give me money because I say I'm broke then you find out I'm building a new house in another state.

[Romulox]

39. GM sells lots of cars abroad.

And due to one sided trade deals, primarily those passed under President Clinton, GM is subject to huge import tariffs in countries that have virtually free access to the US market. (EU, Japan, China, India.)

So what's wrong with them building cars in China for the Chinese market?

[Crazy Dave]

42. It's wrong to use the bail out money to do so

To lay off more American workers and employ more foreign workers with bail out money that was taken out of the same people they want to lay off paychecks is wrong unless you are a republican that thinks American businesses should only create profits for it's board members and shareholders instead of creating jobs. Whose side are you on? Do you like the idea that your tax money will help expand a factory in Brazil instead of Detroit?

"General Motors to Invest $1 Billion in Brazil Operations -- Money to Come from U.S. Rescue Program"
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=320909&CategoryId=12396

[wilt the stilt]

5. lay offs

If Toyota and the rest of the foreign manufacturers would lay off the workers in the south I would love to hear Shelby tell us why it is happening

[still_one]

7. The point is which car companies overproduced? Fuel prices were steadily increasing

for years, and the management of GM continued to overproduce SUVs in spite of the obvious changes that were occurring

For years GM complained that they could not meet the CAFE standards, while most of the foreign manufacturers were exceeding those standards. Why?

[NNN0LHI]

9. Actually gas prices have been going down

Ford wasn't going to roll out the 2009 F-150 until January 1st rather than in September as they normally do to move the 2008's first. They ran out of 2008's last month and had to begin shipping the 2009,s.

Don

[still_one]

11. Now they are coming down, but since 2000 they were steadily increasing.

Ford, in my view is much better managed that GM or Chrysler, and has been much better to adapt to changing conditions

[NNN0LHI]

13. Problem is there is no way to predict the price of gas

These plants cannot be retooled every time there is a fluctuation in fuel prices. The time and cost doesn't allow for that.

Ford was fortunate to have the best selling vehicle car or truck in the US with the F series pick-up or they would have been screwed too.

Imagine if rather than delaying the roll out of the 2009 F series they had instead canceled it all together.

Don

[still_one]

19. I agree, that is why you diversify you car lines so you can easily decrease production of one

and increase the production of another

It is not a question of retooling everytime

[Hannah Bell]

29. seven years of increasing prices isn't enough time?

it was enough time to build multiple plants in china, india & russia.

[NNN0LHI]

32. Last I checked gas was about the same price as it was 7 years ago

[Hannah Bell]

33. yes, since the price started crashing about the time real estate did.

convenient memory, there.

orwellian, even.

so if you "misrepresent" about this kind of stuff, to what end, i wonder?

[DainBramaged]

15. Uh, no

Just got to toyota.com, nissan.com, honda.com, and look at their line ups. And then ask yourself, how did they get to "achieving' the cafe standards? They did it by pumping out a lot of cheap gas sippers to offset the huge number of GAS GUZLERS they ALL sell. Stop giving the Japanese credit they don't deserve. Oh wait, Japan Inc. beloved by DU for their 'innovation'.

If they were so smart, how did Steve Jobs beat the crap out of their personal electronic industry?

[gollygee]

8. I think it's just because people don't have money to buy new cars

So more people are driving their cars longer before replacing them, or replacing them with used cars. That's what I've seen among people I know lately, anyway. "I've been wanting a new (whatever vehicle) but we can't afford it this year so I'll keep driving what I have for now. Maybe in a year or two." Or, "I decided to get (used car) as a winter beater, and maybe I'll be in a better position to buy a new car in the spring."

[TahitiNut]

25. Yup. It's the same story for over 50 years. When the economy catches a cold ...

... the automobile industry gets pneumonia. A new car purchase is the FIRST thing people can delay or do without when the economy is in recession. Since this is the WORST recession since the Great Depression, it's not at all surprising that the auto industry gets hammered. Foreign auto manufacturers, without exception, have the competitive advantages of government subsidies and vastly lower "legacy costs" due to their national health care and national pension systems.

The wealthy buy Mercedes and Porsche ... and some Rolls and Bentley (which don't get replaced every year).
The working class gets fucked. Again.

[michreject]

12. Toyota sales down 33.9% in November

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[melm00se]

16. curious...

how is the used car market doing?

[NNN0LHI]

17. I don't buy used cars so I don't keep track of such stuff

I never got rid of a car I liked or had good luck with until they plain wore out. I got rid of the ones that were screwed up or I just didn't like. Thats how most used cars become used cars.

I don't want a car someone else has already decided it wasn't worth keeping.

I buy new and take care of them and have had real good luck.

Once they get crashed they are traded immediately.

Don

[Tesha]

21. Don, "lease turn-backs" don't fit into your categories.

They can be fine, gently-used cars that were just owned
by peole who insist on a new car every two or three years.

We've had good luck buying lease-turn-backs across the
decades.

Tesha

[NNN0LHI]

30. A lease vehicle can be anything

Could have been a leased vehicle from someone who unhooked the speedometer/odometer cable so as not to exceed their allotted miles when their lease expired but actually had tens of thousands of more miles on the car than the odometer indicates.

You think thats never been done? All it takes is about a minute to do it.

You very well may have had good luck but I bet a lot of people haven't.

Don

[Tesha]

34. Cars don't have speedometer cables anymore.

The old tricks don't work with modern computerized, ABS'd cars.
And service records on cars don't lie (much).

Tesha

[stray cat]

18. So why are they not in need of a bail out or they will go bankrupt?

[NNN0LHI]

20. Post 6 explains it well

[tammywammy]

31. Toyota exec seeks 40 billion euro loan from EU

http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-exec-seeks-40-billion-euro-loan-from-eu.html


11/26/2008, 9:57 AM
Toyota News
Toyota exec seeks 40 billion euro loan from EU

A senior vice president of Toyota’s United Kingdom office strongly suggested that the European Commission consider an economic stimulus package that would include 40 billion euros in low-interest, short-term loans to aid the automakers in developing fuel-efficient vehicles for the future.

Graham Smith, speaking at the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, said, “At a time of economic uncertainty when budgets are stretched to capacity, we must ensure the industry continues to invest in the development of new products and innovative technology.”

The European Investment Bank would provide the loans that will potentially be offered by the European Commission. The European Commission will meet today to consider the economic stimulus package.




So Toyota IS asking for a bailout, just not from the US.

[Romulox]

24. Notice all the experts on worker pay and what CEOs should do aren't posting here?

:shrug:

[IDemo]

26. So nobody is buying cars, whether foreign or domestic

But given a bailout (or loan, doesn't make any difference), the skies will open, the light will come down, and sales will magically zoom off the charts? The side of the equation no one is discussing is that even if auto companies are able to keep the lines running, and produce reliable high mpg vehicles, the demand for cars has plummeted. Dealer inventories are overloaded. Even the vaunted Prius's (Prii?) are stacking up on the loading docks.

[Romulox]

38. I wonder if you are very young?

And I truly don't ask to be snarky. But in my (relative short) lifespan, I've seen a half dozen boom and bust cycles like the present one. The demand for cars will return.

[IDemo]

41. 51, thanks. And no, you haven't seen another downturn quite like the present one

If it isn't apparent by now that this time is different, you haven't been paying attention.

[Stinky The Clown]

28. They build cars no one wants. Plus, their union workers are bleeding them dry.

I think.

:shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

35. Man. I bet that's why they've only got a AA credit rating.

Not like the manly, red-white-and-blue, all-American junk ratings for US automakers.

[anonymous171]

36. Toyota just makes shitty cars. OH WAIT...

[eppur_se_muova]

37. Fie to you and your independent variables!

This is a fact-free discussion topic!

[fascisthunter]

40. The Agenda Against the UAW is Disgusting

Factoring all benefits in order to inflate hourly wages in order to pass off blame on Union workers is the most transparent and disgusting attempt I have seen yet.