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Jon Stewart OWNED Bolton just now!!!

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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:29 PM
Original message
Jon Stewart OWNED Bolton just now!!!
POW!!!



Right in the kisser!!!



:patriot:

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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. He deserves a letter or two for that. He done good! n/t
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. You betcha! Stewart was priceless and unrelenting!
:hi: :thumbsup:
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes he did
and I applaused here in my livingroom. If Jon were PBS, he would have just raised his yearly operating budget with that show!
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. how so?
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bluhoodie Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh so true!
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 10:40 PM by bluhoodie
I agree! I was on the edge of my seat watching that challenge. Bolton sounded like fool questioning Stewart's grasp of "democratic theory." What an asshat, I thought. He was so combative and arrogant, while Jon was calm, collected, and REASONABLE. Bravo, Jon!

Oh - scary graphic in your post! Ewwwww!

> POW!!!
I like that.

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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. The entire show up to the Bolton interview was anti-neocon
A thing of beauty.

A good thing.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Wonder why you are the odd man out..with...all your 'liberal'
accouterments???
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Deleted message
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Stewart was all over Bolton like a cheap suit. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I have to agree with you.
It was an excellent exchange. Bolton made some good points and indicated that Stewart was missing some depth in his arguments.

Granted, Bolton never looks solid because of his rabid outlook, but he defended his positions just fine.

Of course, my applause was reserved strictly for Stewart, but that's my bias showing.
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champt10 Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thank you
And mine too was with Stewart as well. Though i was surprised to hear even one person clap for Bolton, and there were actually two or three.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. They must be real "winners."
}(
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. Could you name one good point he made?
I'm serious - I didn't see him make a single good point for a republic that's supposed to be a democracy. For a dictatorship, maybe.

He may have indicated Jon was missing some depth, but the length of the interview, and Jon allowing Bolton to defend his positions, didn't allow Jon to go into great detail.

I don't think much depth was really needed - the fact is, the pResident is not a dictator, and everyone is not supposed to agree with him just because he was elected, which seemed to be Bolton's entire point.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
69. Hell, yes I can name several points. In fact, I'll watch tonight...
... at 8 pm and I'll give you an entire list.

I hate Bolton, but not because he's retarded. I'll never understand why people on both sides of an issue have to feel that their opponents are brain dead.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. Here we go: Strong points made by Bolton:
  1. Clearly explained the logic of his appointment as UN ambassodor despite not supporting the function of the UN
  2. Explained why it makes sense that the President surrounds himself with people who share his ideology. He truly won this point with his comment: "Otherwise, what's the point of having elections?"
  3. Bolton made an excellent point in his lament about permanent bureaucrats trying to undermine the execution of the executive functions.
  4. Bolton defended Bush's refusal to have public hearings with his staff. If the staff cannot be candid with the President knowing that all discussions are confidential, then his staff will be hamstrung.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. Once again, I don't think any of his points are good
in a supposed democracy, where we have three branches of government. If it were a dictatorship or monarchy, they would have been fine.

Each of the points goes against much of what THIS country is supposed to be about, IMO.

The pResident is elected by the people, and works for the people. Yes, most of them surround themselves with people who share some of their ideas/opinions, but they don't close themselves off from the rest of the country/world, as this administration has done. They are not above the law, and it is not a one-party system.

I had always thought that the point of having elections was to elect a government, not just one person who would rule unencumbered by the rest of the elected officials, and the will of the people. Bolton obviously doesn't agree.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #76
97. Strong Points If One Favors Dictators, I Suppose
And if one such candidate is actually *honest* about his policies going into office.

Bush was not.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Thinking that a 'win' is dependent on him yelling "Uncle!" is a fool's errand, imho.
We see this all the time - people wanting Smirk or Sneer to "feel" something and hinging their aspirations on such a reaction. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. People lacking empathy or conscience are incapable of it.

I don't particularly care at this point whether they have some epiphany or not. I want them in prison for the rest of their lives - NOT so they 'feel' anything but because that's the only measure of justice I can think of that might serve as a deterrent for future Presidents (or Presidential appointees) attempting to create an Imperial Presidency again.

We let Nixon off the hook and (even worse) Reagan off the hook and those are appalling precedents brought to us by the same people infesting our government yet again. Never again!

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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. There was some hesitation briefly by Bolton, and when I say
Jon was all over him, I am talking about the hard hitting questions he asked Bolton from every vantage point. I think Bolton expected Stewart to go easy on him and while he responded, the responses were not convincing or appealing.
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A Simple Game Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
44. It was a good exchange, and you are right, no one was "owned".
I was surprised that I actually thought that I wouldn't mind having a conversation with that guy. I didn't agree with him, but he sounded reasonable.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
49. I think so too
It was a low-key, almost scholarly discussion from what I saw.

What I was disgusted by was Bolton's near constant assertion that the President's "vision" MUST be the driving force in any administration and any attempts to contradict that "vision" is impeding progress.

I kept waiting for Stewart to ask the obvious question, "But what if the President is a total moron with no vision at all?"

Bolton's arguments were clear and well-argued, but he painted a depressing picture of governance.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
40. We have two similar posters who are a bit...off.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
48. I know what you mean, angstless.
But if we let him bait us into answering his question directly, he'll scream to the moderators.
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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. You should have said
Bolton was not as bad as I feared. I will admit, compared to Bush he is a genius.
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tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Really? All joking aside, he left me with a very unsettled feeling.
He kept emphasizing that the president needed to surround himself with people who would carry out his plan, his agenda, because he owed that to the people who voted for him. I've always thought that the president's plan for the country should include all the people. Especially since the majority of the people didn't vote for him the first time around, and the second time is still in dispute.

The president is not a king or an emperor; he is employed by the people. It scares me when he surrounds himself by men like Bolton who feel that he must be given absolute power.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. You nailed it
Since when has the president's job been to hire people who agree with him? "Competence" got lost in the equation somewhere...
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. And Jon nailed him at the very last second with that one,
Jon: "You may be right about bureaucracy, but..." Then Jon called them incompetent. :D
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #20
53. The problem with Bolton's statement about the president being expected
to work for those who "elected" him is that the people who "elected" him are too damn stupid to even know what it is this administration is actually doing.

I agree with your comments completely, but would like to add this. It is only my opinion, but in the case of a truly honest and democratic government, it would make a certain amount of sense for a president, elected by a majority of people, to carry out the policy presented in the message that got him elected by that majority while protecting the rights of the minority. But in the case of the BULLSHIT administration, first off, he wasn't elected by a majority and he and his cronies have lied to all of us. He does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't deserve his office. He and his cronies should be jailed for their lies and refusal to honor the US Constitution. He is a CRIMINAL and should be prevented from amassing even more criminals around him to continue perpetrating his crimes against this country.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #53
99. The People DIDN'T Elect Bush
Edited on Thu Mar-22-07 12:49 PM by Crisco
SCOTUS did.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
55. The question I'd have asked Bolton was, " At what point should a candidate for
president, detail to the voters what is 'agenda' will be? Before an election, or a couple of years later, like GWB did?" This would have come right have Bolton expressed his version of 'democratic theory'. I'd love to get a printed transcript of that exchange. There was something Bolton said about the process, that caused me to yell at the TV, "It's not about the the executive, it's about the freakin' country!" but I don't remember the exact words.
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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
78. The impression I got from Bolton
is that he would walk off a cliff if Bush told him to. Yes-man all the way, if the president doesn't agree then you're the one that's wrong, etc.

I had to be stopped from throwing stuff at the TV when he said Lincoln didn't have differing opinions in his cabinet. Secretary Chase? Secretary Steward? They both thought each of them would be a better president, but they all put the good of the country first.
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #78
92. Bush is just a mouthpiece
Bolton's loyalty isn't to Bush, it's to the people who are pulling Bush's strings.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. HUH?
Did you listen to what Bolton SAID? He may have done well if this were a dictatorship, but it's a (supposed) democracy. Jon kicked his ass, and made him look like an idiot, although it's doubtful the idiot part was hard to do.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. LOL!!!!
:D You are correct. :patriot:

I hope more folks realize this is not a monarchy.



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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. No kidding!
Just because the idiot didn't get flustered proves exactly....um, that he didn't get flustered. Most of the "bushies" lie so easily, that part shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Jon actually went easy on him, and STILL kicked his ass!

:toast:
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #38
54. I thought he looked like an 8 year old bully throughout the interview.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #38
60. It's part of the bushits' resumes that
they are .."absolutley, Fookin' Sociopaths". Absolutely.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
45. Bolton showed he is a lying republicon crony
Lacking in honor. Shame on him and the corrupt cabal of republicon cronies.

Why do republicons hate democracy?

Why do republicons hate the United States of America?
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
51. ROFL!
God, can't you least be somewhat subtle? :rofl:
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junkiebrewster Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
57. I agree as well
I thought it was a very interesting interview and debate. Bolton raised some good points, though I disagree with him.

No one was "owned".
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
68. I hate to say it but when I watched the show on Tivo after reading this
thread I didn't see what I was hoping to see. Yah, Jon got some shots in but he wasn't the angry spitfire Jon of Crossfire, which was what I had set myself up to expect.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
73. nm
Edited on Wed Mar-21-07 05:39 PM by LynnTheDem
Not worth it. :)
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R - Don't show this image to children! You are so right.

Danm that's an ugly pic and it looks just like him.

It was over in 3 minutes. Stewart is so good at taking down Republicans and smiling all the way.

Because there's only one thing important to Jon..

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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I bet Bolton thought he held his own!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Btw, Willie Nelson up next on Colbert. ;)
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. Jon does his homework. He sure does see hypocrisy better than most.
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 10:46 PM by TahitiNut
"Kiss up kick down" Bolton is such an unrepentant total sycophant. It's appalling. Jon nailed him.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. Bolton's counter argument in a nutshell: Bush is King and the Court serves at his pleasure...
and We the People must OBEY.


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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Indeed. An opposing POV is an advantage when at the UN or Arms Control ,,,
,,, but keeps one from adhering to the policies of the King.

IOW: "A courtier's job is courtship." (Blowing sunshine up the King's skirt.)

It's amazing that a supposedly sentient being can spout such self-contradictory horse manure wothout imploding.

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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #21
43. OMG, SR that's priceless. ROFL!
Your deft touch combined with BlackAdder. :rofl: MKJ
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. "Kiss up, kick down" Bolton. Picture him in a Senate hearing for the AG job.
I think I'll drink to that thought.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Me too!!
All I got is ginger ale, but :toast:

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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. Willie Nelson up next on Colbert. n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
27. Um Swamp Rat-- you know I love you..................
Where's PNACchio? :evilgrin:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. deya geaux:
:hug:



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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. :ack:
:spray: :rofl:
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. you have to do a pnacchio! nt
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 11:48 PM by glitch
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Darth_Ole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. By the way, Bolton got his facts wrong about Lincoln...
After Bolton advocated that a president should fill his posts with people who completely agree with him because that's what the voters would want, Jon countered by saying Lincoln, who has a decent reputation, filled his cabinet with political opponents. Bolton said, "Well I think you're wrong about Lincoln."

Obviously he's never read Doris Kearns Goodwin's book "Team of Rivals," which lays out how Lincoln's chief advisers were Seward, Chase, and Bates, all of whom ran against Lincoln and initially despised his backwoods upbringing... The book is called "Team of Rivals," for christ's sake...
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Good post. Actually, it's damned good!
Bolton's a real neocon.

He even sees facts differently.

Whatta guy!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. ...but the neocon bible says, "You can lie, lie, lie." Good point & Bolton
just drooled it out, like he really meant it. He probably didn't know but it wasn't anything that would stop the show so he asserted his claim without one fact behind it. Now I believe the stories about Bolton berating his secretary and chasing her down the hall. What an ass!
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. First, why was he even there? His base certainly wouldn't be ...
Edited on Wed Mar-21-07 07:30 AM by timeforarevolution
watching, and he wasn't selling anything, other than more talking points.

Watching that last night prompted a chat with my 14-year-old daughter until 3:30 this morning. She gets bits and pieces of this administration's crimes and misdemeanors, enough to refer to them as "evil," especially Rove. LOL. She watches Stewart and Colbert and I fill her in on the details and facts of what they're really talking about.

But, it turns out her dad (we're divorced, THANK GOD) STILL is not only a B*ush supporter, but he admires Rove! Well, I didn't know how to put it into words, but I told her I can see how people can admire (?) strategic planning and manipulation (I mean, these thugs have been successful in creating a dictatorship, starting with them laying the groundwork with PNAC in the 90's and even before). But to LIKE it or RESPECT it when it involves crimes and the ruination of lives and countries....shit, it made me nauseated.

Anyway, I laid out the whole thing for her as best I could. Starting with 41 and how the neocons in his administration were pissed and developed this strategy to further their agenda with 43. I even talked about people having an opinion about LIHOP and MIHOP regarding 9/11 (she saw "Farenheit 9/11" when it came out, but she was too young to grasp it). I mentioned a few of the facts which illuminate either their extreme incompetence or actual involvement/LIHOP. She got soooooooooooooo upset. That is a lot to wrap your brain around. I mean, just walking her through how the repubs have this 1984 robot/talking point approach, and her witnessing that watching Bolton and then we watched KO which I had taped; giving her the story behind the Plame leak; this USA scandal and how their talking point is "it's a Democratic witchhunt" when it's their own who are pissed!...poor kid, I really felt for her.

They need to be exposed for the extreme gravity of their crimes. I told her maybe, just maybe, they'll be brought up on charges of war crimes at The Hague. Her dad is the typical "but, Clinton did it" - I told her don't try to remember the rebuttals to that stupidity. To me, that's not even the point. The point is to stress (to any reasonable, non 30%-er) that what is occurring now is what's important. If crimes were committed by others in the past, I hope they can be held accountable. But we're dealing with Bush 43 now, and the destruction of our Constitution, and the whole point of holding them accountable and making it widely known to the public is so IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN. SO OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS KNOW THEY CAN'T GET AWAY WITH THIS SHIT EVER AGAIN, BECAUSE WE'RE PAYING ATTENTION. In the age of the Internet, transparency needs to be the norm, not the exception.

Anyway, she wants me to find a nice, neat summary of the 9/11 stuff - facts, not theories. She was so upset that I said perhaps she shouldn't do so just yet. Maybe a bombshell will occur that will put another nail in that coffin, and then she can look into it further.

While she agrees that these thugs need to be frog marched for all to see, with regard to any dubious/criminal/negligent aspects of 9/11, she feels that, even if that can be proven, she feels it would truly destroy our country and those aspects of their failures should be left alone. If it came out that they were indeed complicit or criminally negligent in a way that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, there would be such devastation and violence (like me, wanting to physically harm people who continue to support these thugs, especially since Katrina). Government would have no hope of people believing them for decades. She may be right.

But their other crimes: stolen elections, the war and lies leading up to it, and the myriad other issues will hopefully be laid on the table very clearly, very soon, for all to see beyond a shadow of a doubt.

She said she always wondered why I was obsessed, wanting to see the developments each day and always coming here to get the real news. I told her I watch the news on TV to see what OTHERS are being told, but that I get my news online, often months and months before it makes it to MSM. She understands now how important it is to be active and not be afraid. She's read 1984 and is reading Farenheit now - she sees the stakes at hand, and understands how close we've been to falling into that. But I told her I'm encouraged that things are truly shifting now. So, it's a good thing. :)

Thanks for allowing me to share.
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
41. link, anyone?
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4 t 4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. Swamp Rat
I love you! Your graphics are the greatest
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
47. Boltons UN
Glad Stewart gave him what he deserved.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #47
70. EXCELLENT graphic! did you do it?
are there more along those lines?

welcome to DU, btw.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #70
94. Unfortunately No.
I found it a while back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2317533

Not really new around here I just don't post that often, but thanks for the welcome.
:)
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #47
74. GREAT PIC!
:applause:
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
50. I think Bolton was very clear and concise
Edited on Wed Mar-21-07 08:39 AM by Stuckinthebush
and that scares the hell out of me.

He made the logical case that a president is voted for and placed into office by a majority of the people (most times!), and that since the people clearly wanted a certain person's ideologies to rule the country then the president is obligated to place people in positions who agree with his or her ideologies. So, if the president hates the entire concept of the UN then it is logical that the president should place a person in the UN who will work to destroy it from the inside.

John Bolton didn't budge from his argument and he stated his case very confidently.

This, my friends, is the problem with many in the Republican Party. They despise the many functions of government that have been developed over many years, and they have made it their aim to destroy these institutions: UN, Social Security, Dept of Education, EPA, etc.

They used to give lip service to these things they despised but not anymore. I think that Bolton was superb on The Daily Show. He carried himself well and made the conservative case clearly. Frankly, we need to see more of this...turn over the rocks and watch the worms crawl. Jon Stewart did a fine job in refuting Bolton's points and this is needed as well.

The American people need to know what the ultimate agenda is, and they need to hear it from the mouths of conservatives. Then, progressives can debate those ideas in public and present the alternatives logically. No social security? OK...well then we will see a return to the days when the elderly and sickest in our society had no where to live. No EPA? OK...well we will return to the days of smog ridden skies and destroyed ecosystems. No UN? OK...well we will return to the days of global isolationism where no country works for the betterment of our world.

Tell us what you really think, John Bolton. Tell us what your party thinks, John Bolton. Tell us with no hesitation, no stammering, and no shame. He did that last night and I'm glad because the light is shinning on the mold in the crevices of our democracy. John Bolton is an asshat, but he is a very articulate asshat.

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tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Excellent points all.
That is why Bolton's "explanations" left me more disturbed than celebratory, even though Stewart easily refuted him point by point. It really showed how far apart our standard systems are in measuring what we each feel is important.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #50
61. So the chimp didn't break all his
campaign promises?

Not to mention the fookin' referendum in 2006? Against the War On Iraq?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
72. Sounds like you like hats on your ass. Too complimentary for an ignoranus for me here.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. I'm sorry
Didn't mean to be too complimentary for you. He is a well spoken asshat. What should I say?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. If you call speaking lies well spoken, then I too am sorry.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #81
85. Speaking lies has nothing to do with the term "well spoken"
Bolton was speaking the truth when he said that he believed that a president has the duty to place people into his administration who have the same priorities. As I mentioned in my original thread, this is very important for us to hear. We need to understand the truth as they see it.

He is clear, concise and well spoken which is good in that we can hear exactly what they think without the BS stammering of an idiot like Bush.

I am at a loss as to why it is a problem to point this out.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #85
87. Depends on your perspective. Bushitlers would probably agree with that statement with all their
hearts, ugh souls, ugh soles.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #87
90. I'm confused...are you accusing me of being a Bushie?
nt
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #90
91. No just the statement is bushieeske
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Could you define "bushieeske"? n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #93
98. similar to bushitler mentality
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. And you think that means what, exactly?
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. That means that they do not speak truth about anything and a person
Edited on Thu Mar-22-07 01:08 PM by lonestarnot
that does not speak truth is not a "good public speaker." Exactly. And if you desire further discussion it will have to wait until later today, as I have to go now. :hi:
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. If you cannot separate style from substance, then you may have a problem.
I have heard some wonderful public speakers with whom I agree on absolutely nothing, and I have heard speakers that I agree with bore me to tears and utterly fail to get their message across.

Being an articulate, well-reasoned, persuasive speaker is possible whether you are liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican.

If you think that anyone with whom you disagree must, by definition, be either an imbecile or insincere, I would suggest it is *you* who are venturing into Bush country.

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. You said "good public speaker." Der der der. You have the problem.
And yes bushitlers fall for lies in persuasive speaking as they are stupid. I do not agree with your logic. And you made the shit up about "anyone with whom you disagree... blah blah blah" I suggest you are the venturee as it is not I, but you who would find them to be "good public speakers." My dogs make better speakers. At least they do not lie about the subjects which are being spoken. Hauty is as hauty does and know it alls do tell lies. I have my opinion and it is no less than yours JUST because YOU say so.... hmmmmf.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #107
108. Apparently, you are not bound by conventional definitions of terms.
That's fine and dandy, but don't expect other people to take up your rather unique terminology.

The vast majority of people understand that good public speaking/debating skills are generally independent of a speaker's ideology. If you cannot separate the two, don't assume the rest of us are so limited.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #91
104. Good
That would have been an unfortunate accusation.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #72
95. Recognizing a good performance does not equate to approving of the message
Not everyone I disagree with politically (even on very fundamental issues) is an "ignoranus". Not everyone I agree with politically can string two coherent sentences together.

Its a tricky world.
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
56. Just saw the repeat,
if people were expecting him to consider 'owning' as breaking down and start sobbing, then no. But if you mean being theoretically insane and working from a different set of facts, then, yeah.

-George Bush was 'elected' on a platform, of among other things, a humble foreign policy and fiscal restraint. Man ain't done either.

-Jon's summary of the Plame scandal was correct, Bolton thought otherwise. Bolton is WRONG. There aren't two realities in play. There's only one.

-After years of not negotiating with North Korea, this administration recently agreed to talks, although, like petulant brats, they are unwilling to call it that. Only now, North Korea has nukes.

-Someone already mentioned the Lincoln advisor thing. Most effective leaders have incorporated outside views.

-The point Bolton made about being judged on performance was the coup de grace. Go ahead, motherfucker, let's jugde it on performance.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #56
62. Thank you, and welcome
to DU.
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #62
65. gracias
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #56
75. "insane and working from a different set of facts" - Exactly my point.
1. He was 100% wrong about Lincoln.

2. His "theories" about American Democracy are 100% wrong. Bolton is a royalist.

3. "The point Bolton made about being judged on performance was the coup de grace." - This is the reason I used the term "owned" in the OP title. :)



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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
58. Did you notice Bolton expressed that classic neocon sentiment- when he said
the problem has been that there's a 'beauracracy that has been working counter to the President's goals'? He was saying that Bush is justified in purging prosecutors for political reasons or staffing the CIA with ideologues, for example, because the beauracracy should be 100% behind the President. He cited leaks as proof of the problem.

It was the same old idea that Rumsfeld expressed after the Abu Ghraib photos came out- the problem wasn't the illegal policy, but rather the photos. Bolton was saying the problem isn't the obstruction of justice or any other unethical practices, but rather- just the fact that you know about them.

I think that, ideally, we want a government that leaks like a sieve, and acts in the sunlight. That's how you keep the process honest, and ensure that it's serving the people, rather than a small group of Cheneys.
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Yes, saw it
And let's see in a real-world example what happens when you staff, say the CIA, with cronies. You get intelligence that is faulty. Which isn't really true. The intelligence, raw and unadulterated, was correct. They simply didn't like it-hence, quagmire.

Expand this concept to every department of government (scientists being forced to underplay global warming, etc.) and you see why we are where we are.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
63. I have to give Bolton credit for showing up. He knew he was walking into a hornet's nest.
And he displayed how dangerous the neo-con agenda is.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
64. History buffs agree: OWNED!
The exchange where Bolton and Stewart disagreed on the makeup of Lincoln's cabinet was very telling. Stewart claimed that it was composed of political rivals and people who were not 'yes-men'. Bolton disagreed with that.

Let's take it to the judges:
http://www.mrlincolnswhitehouse.org/inside.asp?ID=9&subjectID=2
President Lincoln's cabinet included all of his major rivals for the Republican nomination for President in 1860—William H. Seward, Salmon P. Chase, Simon Cameron and Edward Bates. Some of these men had been effectively promised positions as part of the negotiations that led to Mr. Lincoln's nomination at the Republican national convention in May 1860. Many of them objected to the inclusion of each other in the cabinet. There were worries about both geographic distribution and balance between former members of the Whig and Democratic Parties. There were also differences over ideology, ethics and personality. Simon Cameron came under particular attack because of his reputation for political and financial shenanigans. "No President ever had a Cabinet of which the members were so independent, had so large individual followings, and were so inharmonious," noted New York politician Chancey Depew.1
(emphasis mine)

Bolton: 0
Stewart: 1


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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. Bonzai! Shoulda known bushits didn't
pay attention in history class.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #64
83. OWNED, indeed. DKG nailed Lyin' Bloviatin' Revoltin' Bolton tonight!
:dance:
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
67. Bolton wants a new job.
If he'd waivered at all, he wouldn't be a loyal Bushie, so he made sure to stay on target and keep saying stuff that is patently against the Constitution but exactly what Bush believes. He wants a job.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
71. That ignoranus, my dog wouldn't even have his ass! What would
Jon want with it? :hug: Swampie!
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ithinkmyliverhurts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
79. The awesomeness of it all was that it was done with such respect.
Stewart is the consummate gentleman (except to toadies in bow-ties)--even while he's digging out your spleen.

That was a great exchange.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
82. BAM!!! Doris Kearns Goodwin nails Bolton.
:thumbsup:
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tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Yes!!!!!
Thank you Jon for revisiting last's night's interview and proving us right!!
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #82
86. This will be filed away in my mind and heart as one of the best moments of tv! Beautiful!
:loveya: Jon and Doris!!!!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #86
88. 'Twas truly a 'pwned' moment.
It presents the Bolton game in stark relief: LIE and BULLY. These people don't care in the slightest about telling the truth. They will baldly claim anything that suits their appetites - shameless and arrogant.

It's the kind of playground behavior that's 'learned' by 6th-graders in bullying the 3rd-graders and stealing their lunch money. Psychopathic.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. It is part of being a Neocon. Deceive the public by lying and keep lying
and if you lie enough, that lie will become the truth. Well guess what, it doesn't work.
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Raskolnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #82
96. "you f****d me, Doris!"
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #82
102. BBB (Bolton Bullshit Balloon) bursts -- Thanks, Doris!
Edited on Thu Mar-22-07 01:12 PM by Bozita
A little alliteration never hurt anybody.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
105. if one looks at it from the fascist perspective
especially the twisted legal "logic" personified by Alberto, Bolton held up the neocon end.

I love Jon and his show, but I was bit disappointed in the clip. I don't think he "nailed" Bolton at all.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-22-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. Jon stuck the lance right in the heart of that ugly boil.
And the purulent pus came spilling out for all to see.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-23-07 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
109. Did he rip off that hideous mustache. :)
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