A Ladies-Only Gym? Not in California!

[The Straight Story]

A Ladies-Only Gym? Not in California!

SACRAMENTO, CA - A Sacramento-area chain of health clubs that operated one location as an all-women facility has been forced to open the doors to men.

"Unfortunately, due to the threat of litigation, we are compelled to make the change," said California Family Fitness spokeswoman Christina Vanskike.

Vanskike would not identify the individual threatening the lawsuit.

California Family Fitness operates 14 other gyms for both men and women, but kept its Howe Avenue location single-sex because it grew out of a nearby women's health club known as Living Well Lady purchased by the company in 1997.

The company said it has also modified seven other locations that had separate workout areas for men and women.

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=51317&provider=top

[Lerkfish]

1. personally, I have no problem with segregated workout gyms.

I think it is not a case of access as much as privacy.

I"m a guy, but I"ve been in gyms that were coed and the women were constantly bothered by dorky guys who thought it was a meet market (it may have been for some, but meh!).

[ShortnFiery]

13. I do. I always work in "the mens" section of our gym because "some" women IMNSHO ...

HOG the weight equipment by doing ten sets of 20 repetitions using LIGHT weights. Hell! If you are trying to do circuit aerobics training, forget about it if an anorexic Barbie wannabe is on ONE machine for 10 minutes. :(

I'm stereotyping but defend this by saying that many (not all and perhaps not the majority) women are not taught how to use weight training equipment and/or believe that they will achieve toning with no more that lifting 5 pound weights. Not true. :(

[bunkerbuster1]

31. Hi! I'm going to be doing my curls in the squat cage...

because I'm too dainty to deadlift what I can curl.

(Sorry. Pet peeve speaking, here. It's why I bought my own damn squat rack and don't bother with a gym any more, among other reasons.)

[ShortnFiery]

36. That's best. For myself, as I'm getting older, I rely less and less on free weights.

Don't want to wretch my old spine in a moment of thoughtless lifting. The machines, as you know limit the range of motion. Not into squats much as my knees are less forgiving - sturdy - as I age. :blush:

[bunkerbuster1]

37. but if you're really "shortnfiery"

you oughta be deadlifting!

[ShortnFiery]

38. I can't help my temperament "ShortnFiery" but for the sake of my aging carcass I'm also ...

"OldernWiser" when it comes to physical training. Recovery takes MUCH longer when one crosses the big 5 0. :blush:

[bunkerbuster1]

55. Having just crossed the big 5 oh of late...

I agree about stuff taking longer to heal, but the principles of strength training really don't change from age 20 to age 80, from what I can glom and recall from experience.

I'm not saying "go heavy or go home," but that building core strength is always important, and that for my money, compound exercises like the Big Three (bench press, squats, deadlift) are the most efficient way to build that strength, with the foo-foo-y stuff tossed in to round things out (I like bent-over rows and calf raises).

Your mileage varies, that's cool.

[ShortnFiery]

57. You make a good point - Core Training.

I should not just do my FAV's. :blush: You are a wise one - I need to focus more on the basics. Thanks. :hi:

[anonymous171]

99. A lot of women still believe the "lifting heavy weights will make you bodybuilder huge" myth

[slackmaster]

2. Middle-aged divorced straight man chiming in for the heck of it

If I went to a gym I would prefer that it be gender-segregated. I don't want women seeing my pale, pudgy carcass struggling to burn off fat.

[petronius]

42. Age-segregated would be nice too - I'd rather not be confronted with

a bunch of ripped 20-something dudes when I'm struggling through my third pushup of the week... :)

[moriah]

131. That's the reason I went to Curves for Women gyms

I don't want any guy seeing my pudgy carcass struggling to burn off fat either!

[deadmessengers]

3. I've always wondered how those places stay open.

I mean, if one were to open a "men only" gym, people would shit themselves in about eight different colors screaming about it, and the stampede of lawyers would be likely to resemble last Friday at the Valley Stream Wal-Mart.

[BoneDaddy]

6. Well ya see liberals often want it both ways

I personally could care less about a women-only gym, it simply does not bother me, but you are correct...if a male only anything existed, there would be a group of liberals forcing open their doors.

I like the idea of segregated places based on gender. Men need places without women and women need places without men. Of course this needs to be equal.

[BlooInBloo]

9. It's funny when people pretend that historical context doesn't exist.

[BoneDaddy]

20. Not pretending at all

I believe in separate but equal places for men and women to go without having to interact with the other gender. In the past, it was inequal. What part of EQUAL was missed by your radar.

And if you want equality in the sense that men should not have men only clubs, you cannot have it both ways.

[BlooInBloo]

24. You're right, of course, *pretending* isn't the only possibly reason a person might ignore...

historical context.

[BoneDaddy]

26. Totally missing my point

and as usual loves to thrive in the past.

[ShortnFiery]

25. "Separate but Equal" was used with regard to racial segregation. That didn't work either.

:thumbsdown:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/sepbutequal.htm

[BoneDaddy]

28. Step outside your tortured little world for a second

and just look at what I am proposing. I think a woman's only health club is great for numerous reasons as I think a men's only health club is great too.

Resist the knee jerk reaction, come on you can do it.

The patriarchal past is rife with inequality and that is not what I am proposing at all.
I simply believe that men and women can benefit from gender only institutions.

[ShortnFiery]

34. No, my world is not tortured. I was with one of the first groups of women melded into

the Regular Army. I endured the horrific sexist remarks as I proved myself "a soldier" NOT "a WAC." I was also blessed to be selected and graduate from the US Army Infantry Airborne School in 1979. To date, Airborne and Air Assault Schools are the only two Infantry courses women are allowed to attend.

I fought for women's rights to be integrated into the military EQUAL with men. Therefore, I'm passionate NOT tortured as I'm all too aware that once you approve even the most "benign appearing" acts of SEGREGATION, you are on a slippery slope to increasing areas of ostracism.

Nothing is EVER "Separate but Equal" with regard to racial or gender segregation of quality institutions and/or clubs.

[BoneDaddy]

45. Congrats on your accomplishments

but I still there is a benefit to men and women having separate clubs, for both sexes. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.

[ShortnFiery]

66. I was going to sign off but I'll take a moment - no cheap shots - to extrapolate on your premise

OK, let's say tomorrow there LEGALLY existed MEN ONLY and WOMEN ONLY gyms.

Not wholly unlike Mens' vs. Women's colleges, I submit men's gyms would be of higher quality. Further, more high powered businessmen than business women would use the "social areas" (juice bars, cafes) to network and expand their lists of contacts.

The NOTION of "men only" and "women only" gyms, on the surface, sounds appealing BUT I'd also submit that significant numbers of both genders of business-people would prefer gender integrated health clubs.

As time progresses, businesswomen would be at a distinct disadvantage as they can't meet their male peers for a game of hand ball, racket ball or tennis at the higher quality central hub of the illustrious "men's only" gym.

I'm not a gifted writer, but the scenario above would play out as A DETRIMENT TO WOMEN who are competing to move up the business ladder.

As such, gender segregated health clubs are not democratic (severely limit social networking) for many career oriented women.

Now Sir, can we "agree to disagree" and move on? :-)

[BoneDaddy]

138. Sure we can move on

but still disagree.

[snake in the grass]

60. You are so right.

And that is why I also support mandatory non-segregated restrooms. I can think of nothing more beautiful than sitting in a stall with my date in the stall beside me, competing over who farts the loudest while taking a dump. Yes, indeed, good times!

[BoneDaddy]

64. You do that too?

lol

[ShortnFiery]

68. Wouldn't bother me in the least and exists in parts of Europe without "drama"

[treestar]

69. What for? People are people. Who cares?

I don't need to have public places that don't admit men. I have no need for any group to be women-only.

May as well say black people need time without white people and vice versa.

[DonEBrook]

65. Because it was far from equal.

:shrug:
Also public education (or the military) is not the same kind of thing as a private gym.

[lumberjack_jeff]

96. How would your ideal laws account for this historical context?

Door #1 Justice, revenge, atonement.
Door #2 Equality

Pick only one.

[ShortnFiery]

15. "Segregation" whether it be a Gym or a Golf club has no place in OUR society.

Even when I was a fetching 20 something, I was not troubled at the gym because when I worked out I had "the look" (don't f**k with me).

When you're working out with horny men, it does help not to show off your wares with sexy get-ups. Even so, give them "the look" or polite but firmly tell them that you're busy should take care of the situation.

Part of me wonders if some women don't mind the stares. :shrug:

[BoneDaddy]

22. I agree, if it was not equal

but I think it is important to have places where men and women can go without the added dynamic of gender.

[ShortnFiery]

27. Yes, and in the early 1960s white folk wanted to go to places with only other white folk.

No way I buy into this. I've "networked" with other business people through racquetball and rounds of golf.

Gender segregation (even in gyms) profoundly LIMITS business networking opportunities for women.

[BoneDaddy]

29. Wow now you are really stretching

So then a woman can choose to go to a co-ed gym. I am just saying the option should be open for people, that's all.

If you are going to network instead of workout, then you pick a different place.

The illogic is staggering.

[ShortnFiery]

40. If you endured all that I did competing (PT-leadership) with men in the mid to late 70s ...

you'd take nothing for granted either.

No Sir, it is prudent. Once you've fought for equality and full integration for your people (women), don't ever LET that right slide back, i.e., remain vigilant

No slack. ;)

[BoneDaddy]

43. Oh god

can you actually see the ground from that high horse?

For the third time I am not advocating a "return to the past". I am not advocating for inequality.

I am saying that men and women are different creatures, each with specific gender needs and that both can benefit from having time away from one another.

You will refuse to see anything unless it is through your perception.

So based upon your logic, ALL the women's gyms should be closed down.

[ShortnFiery]

46. But that's where you needed to read the link I submitted above "Separate but Equal"

You just don't get it, do you?

http://americanhistory.si.edu/brown/history/1-segregated/separate-but-equal.html

Segregated racial education was touted to we WONDERFUL because of the claim that it was "Separate but Equal."

No, I don't believe in segregated clubs/gyms because, as we know from recent history NOTHING is ever "Separate but Equal." :evilgrin:

[BoneDaddy]

48. Racial segregation

and having men/women health clubs are not the same thing, although you may think they are.

When does one every become a survivor instead of an eternal victim. Sad

[ShortnFiery]

52. "Segregation" of the races and/or genders at places for "networking" is NOT democratic.

Whether it be a health club or a golf club, it's NOT democratic.

We clearly disagree but I stand by my assertion that you would LIMIT women's ability to "network" for business reasons.

Again, no slack. AIRBORNE! :evilgrin:

[BoneDaddy]

67. Wow you sure are stuck on the Networking thing

as if that is even considered by women who go to a gym. Are you for real or this is just some Saturday Night Live skit you always wanted to act out?

Please do a poll of all women in DU of what their main reason is to go to a gym. My guess you would we pretty much alone in the networking thing.

[ShortnFiery]

70. Career success depends significantly on "networking" - we all know that, don't we? n/t

[BoneDaddy]

87. But that is why they have corporate gyms

all I am asking for is a choice. Most gyms are co-ed so my suggestion would be to pick one of them.

[RedCappedBandit]

112. I wasn't even aware people went to the gym

to "network"

:wtf:

I go to the gym to exercise. If I happen to socialize with other people who are also interested in exercising, great! I can't imagine going to the gym with the intent of "networking" with potential business opportunities, or whatever the heck is being implied..

[BoneDaddy]

119. It is the only thing she has so she keeps repeating it

as if it is eventually going to make any sense to anyone but herself.

[noiretextatique]

136. i go to a women's only gym to work out

but if i wanted to network, i could do so with the women in the gym. i'm an accountant and my workout partner is a psychologist. i am sure there are women from just about every profession in my gym :shrug:

[ShortnFiery]

50. "women are different creatures"

:wtf:

Ya know, the guys used to say that I did my push-ups, "like a man" so I must be a more amenable creature to the male of the species? :spray: :hi:

[BoneDaddy]

51. No matter what I say you will turn it into what ever serves your point of view

Stop being so self serving. I said men and women, not just women.

WE are all a blend of masculine and feminine qualities and what I find hysterical is that you seem to embody the "negative masculine" qualities the most.

[ShortnFiery]

53. Your words reveal a lot ... I'm not claiming that I'm any better, just more comfortable with

mixing among members of the opposite sex without being self-conscious about my body NOR wishing to "jump their bones" every other moment. :shrug:

Oh, thanks - I'm androgynous. My retired USMC husband is very proud of that fact. We are not confined by gender role stereotypes. In fact, he's enjoyed Creole Cooking on many occasions. Doesn't make him less manly to me ... he's forever my beloved Jarhead. :hi:

[BoneDaddy]

72. Good for you

but the vast majority of people are quite comfortable in their gender and what it means to them. They may have no desire for androgyny. So do us all a favor and stop pushing your androgyny on everyone else.

[ShortnFiery]

79. "but the vast majority of people are quite comfortable in their gender."

The more we integrate socially and better understand each other, the better we will support each other as HUMAN BEINGS.

I'm comfortable in my gender, but I can integrate quite nicely with THE OTHER and wish not to be shut out. ;)

[BoneDaddy]

130. As do I

but there is a time to integrate and a time not to. I work with women every day in my office and thoroughly enjoy my time with them and the women in my family and I enjoy my male only time with my friends and family just as much.

I like time with the other gender and time without it. Not everything has to be integrated

[treestar]

75. What benefit is that?

Currently I have no place, not even home, where there is complete freedom from the male gender. I'm not going nuts or suffering in any way or lacking any appreciable benefit.

I work out at a co-ed gym - there are separate locker rooms, though. But we share the pool and hot tub and the entire floor and no one is the worse for it.

[BoneDaddy]

80. Good for you

but others may not see it the same way and giving them the option is not evil or falling into the past.

[treestar]

78. What benefit is that?

Currently I have no place, not even home, where there is complete freedom from the male gender. I'm not going nuts or suffering in any way or lacking any appreciable benefit.

I work out at a co-ed gym - there are separate locker rooms, though. But we share the pool and hot tub and the entire floor and no one is the worse for it.

[BoneDaddy]

100. The pure benefit of male/felmale company

without the often complications that come when genders mix. I enjoy the opposite as well. I enjoy being purely in the company of women too, but love getting out with just men at times.

Now that may not apply to you but I think that alone is beneficial.

[treestar]

73. Networking is informal

It will take place at any gym.

[Rebubula]

39. Oh yeah

Because a separate area for women to work out in is comparable to racial segregation...

Seriously, do even listen to yourself or just go by the ACLU playbook every time??? Not every instance of segregation is oppression or wrong.

Do you have a problem with black colleges? Gay bars? You see...some people that deal with discrimination every day may want a respite for all that from time to time.

[BoneDaddy]

41. Yes they do and they are not even consistent

but react from some place where they feel hurt. It is sad.

[ShortnFiery]

44. You don't have any idea how much resistance there was to women being integrated into

the military during the late 1970s, do you?

It wasn't as horrific as racial segregation, but there was a wealth of bitter and mean-spirited men who wanted to see women remain secretaries, nurses and teachers ONLY.

You have no idea how much women had to struggle to expand their career opportunities. If you did, you would understand my passion.

[BoneDaddy]

47. Right and because you have endured such crap

you are incredibly sensitive to anything that you think is a return to it, but in your emotional fervor you overlook much of the positives that separate areas for men and women give to each group.

[ShortnFiery]

56. Thou protesth too much?

Hey, I endured some very significant physical and emotional experiences during the late 1970s and early 80s.

The "fervor" goes both ways.

We need to agree to disagree - after all, I will admit there are two sides to every issue.

Have a good day, Rambo. :-) :hi:

[BoneDaddy]

74. Wow that is projection

you seem to embody the Rambo reference more than me.

[ShortnFiery]

82. I know that was "a tweak" to get a rise out of you.

Forgive me, I've had over twenty years to "tweak" certain male personalities to distraction. :blush:

No, calling you "Rambo" was a real cheap shot.

My sincere apology - have a good day, Sir. :hi:

[BoneDaddy]

86. Hehe why ty

and here I thought we were going to dance all afternoon :) I disagree with ya but I like your spirit nonetheless.
Peace.

[treestar]

81. Why should anything be segregated?

A gay bar does not prohibit straight people from going in, even if that were practical. A gay bar is not an official thing, anyway, it just attracts gay customers.

A historically black college would not categorically reject white students who may apply to it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

110. There is a 'men only' gym in the Miami area

Its advertisements say that it caters to 'alternative lifestyles.'

[BoneDaddy]

120. Doesn't surprise

me as Miami has a large gay male population. But I think that has more to do with sexual orientation then it does gender.

[LeftHander]

4. Lets just forget about gender segregation....

and provide uni-sex lockers rooms for everyone.

Or would that be too sexy for white bread Christians.

[maddowfan]

5. LMAO.

[deadmessengers]

7. It would look like the shower scene in Starship Troopers n/t

[blondeatlast]

11. Actually; it might very well drastically reduce sex before marriage...

Bodies and bathroom habits before the first date, even? Yucko.

[Lerkfish]

12. If you'd ever seen me naked, you'd understand what a blessing non uni-sex lockers would be

in fact, I pretty much ruin it for segregated locker rooms. Let's face it, even *I* don't want to see myself naked.

:)

[Marrah_G]

14. Yuck- I would hate unisex locker rooms and I am not Christian

[ShortnFiery]

16. Then don't travel overseas (Japan/Europe) where they have unisex bathroom.

It's a matter of maturity and personal responsibility. I travel with other women and/or men any one of whom could handle themselves when confronted.

Time for Americans to grow the hell up and realize that not everyone wants to have sex with each other all of the time. :eyes:

[RedCappedBandit]

77. To americans, everything is about sex..

As an american male, I am constantly bombarded with BS about how all I think about is sex, 24/7. I don't know why such a mindset is so prominent in this culture, but there it is.. sigh.

[Marrah_G]

88. It's not about being American

There are many women in this country who would feel safer and more comfortable not having strange men in view as they change. I don't have to justify why I feel like that. Many women feel that way. The same could probably be said for some men.

I don't think any of it should be legislated. If a gym only had unisex locker rooms I probably would choose a different gym. I personally like the idea of having the choice of a female only gym.

We are talking about choices, not mandates.

[RedCappedBandit]

90. I personally don't have any problem with

single sex changing rooms. I was just responding to the specific notion that americans are obsessed with sex.

[Marrah_G]

93. Ah okay- and I think it's somewhat true as well

I couldn't see the post you were responding to.

:hi:

[jakem]

23. I dont know about your gym... but the nekked people in mine-

not sexy.

[treestar]

84. In theory I have no problem with that

What's the big deal? I can be in a locker room with naked strangers, only because they are of the same gender.

It cracks me up the hysteria that goes on in my gym when there is "a man" working in the locker room on the plumbing or the like. As if he couldn't possibly keep working on whatever it is if we were in there changing our clothes. We have to stay out for the duration! :rofl:

[blondeatlast]

8. When it comes to the gym, this feminist is all for gender segregation.

I've been hit on far too many times--and my sister mocked at one of the big ones.

We both now meet at a women-only gym and actually accomplish our goals.

And I think male only gyms are just fine as well or at least segragated facilities in the same gym.

Of all the things this guy could macrame his Spanx over... :shrug:

[Nye Bevan]

10. If you don't think men-only country clubs should be allowed

then you can't really argue in favor of women-only health clubs.

[Dora]

17. The two are not the same. nt

[ShortnFiery]

21. Yes they are ... business people interact and may socialize at the juice bar afterward.

There's no place for segregation in OUR Country whether it be at the gym, in the schools OR membership of an esteemed Golf Club.

One word: Networking.

Women would be at a disadvantage.

[Tesha]

58. Conceptually, they are *EXACTLY* the same.

And it's always amusing to see DUers struggling
to defend one while opposing the other.

Tesha

[mondo joe]

61. Consistency in application is too often a casualty of the way people look at laws.

A consistently applied objective principle is critical.

[AngryAmish]

126. I am for single-sex country clubs

People are allowed to hang around with whom they wish. It is in the Constitution.

I worked for an all male golf club for many years growing up. I have gone to all male golf clubs. They are very nice.

[blondeatlast]

18. So, for both sides of the issue, a question: There already are plenty of non-segregated gyms.

I'm damn certain that Sacramento has at least a handful of them.

So--why not have a men's or ladies' only gym? And why wouldn't the (presumably) male complainant not go to one of those?

[ShortnFiery]

19. No, don't start now. Many times it's also a method of business networking. It's not democratic.

Put on a pair of sweatpants and tell the mashers to "Piss off" if they bother you. The management of a quality gym will also assist you if you are being harassed.

The right wingers have been trying to segregate education, therefore, I don't want anything of merit gender-segregated. :thumbsdown:

[pipi_k]

83. Just wondering...

Why should women even HAVE to "put on a pair of sweatpants" (like they're not hot and sweaty enough as it is) and tell some masher to "piss off"?

What the hell gives (some) men the idea they can go into a coed gym and harass the female patrons anyway?

Instead of calling out the women who feel (justifiably, I think) that they shouldn't have to be fighting off the pigs, why aren't people coming down on the pigs who have, by their bad behavior, caused women to feel they NEED separate facilities??



And I'm also wondering something...

why on earth would men want to be included in a women's gym?

Women fought for years to be included in a lot of "male only" activities/establishments because they were, in many cases, superior to what the women had. Women don't want to be treated like second class citizens.

Is that what's behind this wave of men wanting equal access to female only clubs? They're afraid the women are getting better access to services than they can get at their own gyms? Or are they there to ogle and act like pigs? I'm sure many of them, even if they pretend not to be "peeking" are mainly there for whatever eye candy might be floating around.


That's not to say that gyms should always be coed...but if some aren't, why not just let it be and allow the women who don't want to deal with having to fight off the oglers and mashers to have some privacy without trying to make them feel like there's something fundamentally wrong with them...

[Donald Ian Rankin]

123. There's nothing wrong with single-sex education.

I went to a single sex school - they're pretty common here in the UK - and there's nothing sinister about it; they also appear to often provide better educations for both boys and girls.

Racially segregating schools is a stupid idea, because a) the educational needs of young black people and young white people are not very different, and b) it was inevitable that one lot of schools would end up recieving preferential treatment.

There *is*, however, a strong correlation between educational needs and gender, especially in the 10-18 age bracket (girls, on average, mature earlier than boys); plus there are all sorts of social distractions you avoid by having single-sex schools. And since no-one knows whether they're going to have sons or daughters, they don't end up unequal (as demonstrated by the countries where they have them).

I would worry if all educational establishments became single-sex, but I see nothing wrong with them existing in parallel with mixed ones.

[Greyhound]

33. But, if you go down that road, you run right into the smoking bans.

If non-smoking was economically viable, without the legislation, Rob & his partners would have made it with their bar & restaurant in City of Commerce.

[Rabrrrrrr]

115. Look, there are plenty of non-segregated community colleges. Why do blacks need to go to Harvard?

:eyes:

[blondeatlast]

134. Edit: dupe.

[blondeatlast]

135. It was an honest question. Snark really helps me understand the guy's position.

Colleges get federal and state aid (yes, even Harvard does).

Curves doesn't.

Thanks for your valuable contribution to my understanding of the issue. :hi:

[RedCappedBandit]

30. Give it some "fruity" name. Guys won't go

:D

Disclaimer: Use of the word fruity was due to the lack of a better term. I apologize if the above is offensive.

[bunkerbuster1]

32. The "Does My Butt Look Big In This Dress?" Gym

now open for business.

[SoCalDem]

114. or.."Pretty Lady Beauty Nail Salon & Exercise Gym"

:)

[begin_within]

35. Isn't Curves a chain of gyms for women only?

[BoneDaddy]

49. Yes it is

and I think it is good for women to have it. I also believe men should have the option for the same.

[Tesha]

59. And Curves is run by a fundy right-winger; ever wonder if there's a connection? (NT)

[BoneDaddy]

62. I don't think there is

but you can fantasize all you want.

[Tesha]

89. Your immediate fall-bad to an ad-hominem attack suggests that your argument is weak (NT)

[BoneDaddy]

139. Ok Tesha

try and be even more vague and superior sounding. How bout some specifics?

[Scout]

91. i would not really call Curves a gym....

they don't have lockers, showers, and the only equipment they have is their own little version of circuit training--hydraulic machines, not weight machines or free weights.

[BoneDaddy]

140. Ok so now Scout is an expert on gyms

and what constitutes such... LOL. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[Lyric]

54. I have no problem with female-only gyms.

I would have a serious problem with male-only gyms.

Women are minorities in the political sense; protectionism for minorities does not cause the same damage as protectionism for majorities. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but it's the truth. If women preyed on men as often (and in as damaging a way) as men preyed on women, it would be different. But this is not reality.

There is nothing wrong with giving a disadvantaged minority a protected space--like a gay-only high school, for example. However, a straight-only high school would be wrong, because nobody is hurting straight people BECAUSE they're straight. Similarly, while it's rare for a woman to target a man for sexual harassment and/or assault, the opposite is sadly not true. Women ARE targeted for harassment and assault. Because of this sad reality, I think that having a safe space for women to work out without men leering at them or making targets of them is a perfectly fine idea.

But since California doesn't agree, I think that the business owner should redecorate all of their gyms to be as frilly, pink, and rainbow-sparkly as humanly possible. Pink weights, purple and pink-painted equipment, rainbow exercise bikes with purple streamers on the handlebars, unicorns and rainbows all over the walls, and pink sparkly membership cards. If the guys want in so bad, they can deal with the explosion of girly froo-froo. :D

[RedCappedBandit]

71. I disagree

If you're going to have female only gyms, it only makes sense that you would have male only gyms also.
Men might be more likely to harass females at a place like a gym, but that doesn't mean the opposite never happens. I am sure there are many times when males are made to feel uncomfortable when they're working out surrounded by a bunch of females.
You know that giggling thing they do.. :p

But on a more serious note, I do think it would be wrong to give women a place to work out amongst themselves, while not allowing men to have the same opportunity.
In the end, though, I don't think segregated gyms are necessary. Your solution works fine, put frilly crap all over everything and you will hardly have a male in the place. On the same token, make a gym focused solely on free weights that caters to HEAVY lifters, and you will probably have a higher percentage of men there. (Obviously there would be exceptions)

[BoneDaddy]

76. Losing battle

trust me, engaging in "discussion" with the likes of her will be fruitless. All men are bad, and all women are sparkly goodness. Don't waste your time.

[KitchenWitch]

141. After all, we 'girls' are all just giggling ninnies...

x(

[RedCappedBandit]

143. I hope you don't honestly think that's what I was trying to say. nt

[RedCappedBandit]

63. In my experience,

gyms are typically separated into a few parts. Free wights, machines, cardio equipment, and sometimes a circuit training area. I think this works fine. Typically, men gravitate more to the freeweight area, while women tend to use the machines and cardio equipment.
I don't think there should be segregated gyms, however, there is nothing wrong with creating a gym that appeals to one gender over another.
For instance, like I said above, give the gym a name that would be a turn off for men. Also, like another poster said, make all the equipment pink and rainbow themed!

[treestar]

85. Exactly - just let the appeal take care of it

Market it. There's no need for an official rule.

[taught_me_patience]

92. In california, business cannot discriminate service based on gender

It cuts both ways. I know... it's a "radical" concept to some on DU.

...fugging sad.

[Evoman]

94. Women wouldn't need Women Only gyms if men weren't so fucking disgusting.

I mean, shit....the gym I go to, a sizable percentage of the assholes stand around and watch the women work out with their horn-dog eyes. It makes it extremely uncomfortable to women. Add to the fact that a lot of them don't clean up after themselves after using the benches, and it makes ME want to go to a fucking womens only club.

At least the women don't stand around and oggle the men or hit on them or make them uncomfortable. That's the fucking difference. This is not about "gender equality". This is about men being unable to resist acting like fucking pigs. And save me the "we aren't all like that" bullshit....enough of us are that it's a problem.

[Marrah_G]

95. Thank you Evoman

[BoneDaddy]

98. Not too sexist

but I guess if you are a woman who hates men on DU that is tolerated.

Fucking hypocrites.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marrah_G]

121. I don't hate men!

I rather like men.

You need to understand that women being victimized and harrassed by men is still a huge issue in this country.

Most women do not feel safe undressing in front of strange men.

That does not make us man haters..... THAT MAKES US SMART.

For those who want unisex gyms and locker rooms, I think they should be compeletely legal. But to try and make separate gyms and locker rooms illegal goes to far. People should have the option.

I am not a hypocrite nor a man-hater.

[BoneDaddy]

124. You agreed with a man

who pretty much made vast global and unfair statements about all men. He didn't use "some" or specified which guys were responsible, he painted with a broad brush and said some really ridiculous sexist comments that you agreed with. That makes you a hypocrite.

[Marrah_G]

128. We might have been able to have a conversation if you left out the name-calling

But you continue with the bullying tone, rather then a conversational tone, even going so far as making veiled physical threats towards others.

Had you attempted to have a conversation you may have found we actually agree more then disagree.

[BoneDaddy]

132. I love women like you

who bash men like your agreement with Evo's post, then you cannot deal with my appropriately angry response, then you play victim and portray me as a bully when it was your and Evo's original comments that were judgemental broad brushed and sexist.

I tire of the angry victimized woman who goes on a anti male tear and then when called on it acts like the victim. It is pathetic.

[Marrah_G]

133. Your ideas about who and what I am are incredibly off-base.

The name calling is unnecessary and pretty much instantly stops any further discussions.

I usually enjoy your posts a great deal, but today you are just being nasty.

[BoneDaddy]

137. Evo sent me a private message

that I truly appreciated. I will not print what he wrote but this is my response to him:

You are a better man than me in this situation as I was not ready to give an inch. In most cases I can be very reasonable but when it comes to how people (mostly women) on this website feel the need to totally bash men, I get ornery to say the least.

Let me explain. I have two sons, 5.5 and 3. I want them to grow up as good men, proud to be men. I had a great father and I surround myself with good loving men as friends. I think what happens on this board regarding many women's opinions of men (and some men for that matter) is a twisted reverse of patriarchy, where women think they can just slam, ridicule and attack men because some man hurt them in their life. I call it out whenever I see it. It particularly upsets me when I see other men join in. That is what I thought you were doing.

I am glad you do not hate your gender as I think men (and women) are wonderful beautiful people, each different and special in their own way. I despise the way the radical fringe of the feminist movement has marginalized ALL men because patriarchy, and it saddens me to see women become the negative males that they claim to despise.

Thank you for your words as I believe that (even with the women I disagreed with) we have more in common than not. This issue sticks in my craw and is a particular thorn in my side regarding this website.
Take care and thanks for the post. I, likewise, am sorry for the namecalling and look forward to more civil discourse.
Peace

[Marrah_G]

146. Bone:

What a beautiful letter you wrote. I am sorry that I offended you. It was not my intention to imply that I thought all men were awful. I also have two sons, 15 and 16. Evo and I have had alot of discourse on the board and I felt as though I knew where he was coming from. I think you are a great poster and I enjoy your posts very much. I hope you can forgive my thoughtless words. next time I will take a bit more time to consider the effect my words have.

I too see the male bashing on the site and it upsets me also. I am red-faced that I did the very same thing.

My thoughts on the gym issue is that people should have a choice. My irritation was in the lack of understanding some posters had as to why some women would feel uncomfortable in a co-ed gym. I know now that it was my lack of a clear explaination of my views that was the issue.

I hope you have a wonderful Holiday.

Marrah

[BoneDaddy]

147. Peace to you as well Marrah

I truly appreciate your words and I, too, apologize for my reactions and harsh words. I am in agreement in that I think giving people a choice is a wonderful thing.

I wish you a wonderful Holiday as well Marrah.
Peace.

[BoneDaddy]

97. Another self loathing man

trying to ingratiate himself to the women who hate men.

Way to condemn your gender. I feel sorry for you. Men like you make me sick.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RedCappedBandit]

101. I dunno where you're from..

But in every gym I've been to, the guys serious about weight lifting keep to themselves and focus on their routine. The women do the same. If there were a man acting rude towards the women, I'd be confident that the rest of the fellas there would put him in his place, assuming his victims didn't do so already.
There might be a few adolescent horny dweebs who can't help but look every once in a while, but they don't outnumber the adolescent chicks who stand around giggling and whispering who knows what to eachother.

As a guy, I can honestly say I have never and would never treat any lady with disrespect, and making ANY person feel uncomfortable for trying to get in shape is not my MO.

[Evoman]

104. You know what...it's the big guys that are the least offensive.

They are big because they go to the gym to work out, and boy are they focused. It's usually the skinny college assholes who ruin it for everyone.

[RedCappedBandit]

109. Don't judge a book by its cover

I could say a lot more, but I think i'll leave it at that.

Let me just add that I think you need to have more faith in my (college) generation. At least in the areas i've lived, I haven't seen many people my age act out like some who have been described in this thread. Like I said, it would be unusual for a person at any gym I frequent to disrespect anybody else in the gym, male or female.. Maybe the trend some people here are used to is disappearing.

[chrisa]

106. First post, and yes.

There are a bunch of messed up guys in gyms. I too know from firsthand experience (even though I'm a guy). Our gym has its own women-only section, and with good reason. Half of these guys look like they either just got out of prison, or just go to the gym to try and meet girls that think they're disgusting.

[Evoman]

107. I find that the bigger the guy, the lower the chance that he is the problem.

The big guys I know are too fucking focused to hit on women in the gym. It's not the "prison" guys that are the problem...it's the skinny runts who make passes at the women or leer while they are curling their 15s.

[RedCappedBandit]

108. Firstly, welcome to DU!

Secondly, don't judge on appearances.
I probably am one of those "prison" guys.
I shave my head, and am devoted to weighlifting. Yet, I gaurantee you, I am one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.
I've said it before in this thread, and I'll say it again; generally, the community I am familiar with in the gym are great people who are supportive and extremely helpful.

:hi:

[RedCappedBandit]

102. I don't get all the male bashing in this thread

Am I seriously the only one who does not typically experience these stereotypical males who go to the gym specifically to hit on women? I would honestly be surprised / astonished to see some of the behaviors discussed in this thread.
Granted, I am a college student, and MOST of my time in gyms has been spent in some school gym. I have attended other gyms, however. One, your typical gym, another a self proclaimed "judgment free" zone.Maybe the college culture is different? Either way, I generally see people in the gym sticking to themselves, if not simply offering / asking for advice from other members who look more experienced.
Any guy I know would definitely confront somebody acting in a manner illustrated in this thread. :shrug:

[BoneDaddy]

118. Don't you know

it is considered appropriate to male bash on DU with no consequences. This place is often hypocritical when it comes to men.

[Scout]

129. of course you don't see it, it doesn't happen to you n/t

[SoCalDem]

111. a "gentle" work-around..

Paint the interior pink, purple, turquoise..

Play only Oprah, The View & Lifetime Channel

Put the kiddie play area right in the middle where Moms can watch & listen to them play..

Offer Mom & Me & Gymboree classes



If a place is "female-friendly"..and that's their audience, that's who they will attract..

Actually, it might be nice to "separate" by "weight-class".. There are probably millions of obese people who need to exercise, but are mortified at the thought of the gym being just another place for people to laugh at them:(

[RedCappedBandit]

113. There are gyms

specifically for people who don't want to constantly be judged while getting in shape.

It's a good idea IMO, but the specific example I am thinking of (planet fitness) is the most hypocritical franchise i have ever stepped foot in. They claim that you will be free of judgement, but they call bodybuilders "lunk heads" and actively try to keep them out of the gym. They also have alarms that go off to embarrass anybody who makes too much noise while lifting, or happens to drop a weight when it's too heavy. Seriously backwards.
Anyway, if I saw somebody who was obviously out of shape putting serious effort into exercising at the gym, i would seriously have a lot of respect for that person, and would offer any help if he or she needed it. I think the same could be said for most people who share my type of lifestyle.



PS
I actually spelled "foot" as "fut" the first time I typed it out. I think this semester is getting to me. :P

[Marrah_G]

122. Your last sentence...........you hit that out of the park

I've been dieting and exercising at home, I wish I could go to the gym with more options and less distractions. Years ago I was at the gym, feeling good about the progress I had been making when I over hear this in the locker room, just loud enough for me to hear "omg if I ever get that big I will just kill myself, gross". I never went back to another club.

[Rabrrrrrr]

116. Good. Open up every one of those sexist pig bigoted establishments.

Either everyone is allowed, or no one is allowed.

NO MORE "SEPARATE BUT EQUAL" BULLSHIT!!!!

[tjwash]

125. This thread has lived up to expectations.

:rofl:

[Evoman]

127. I personally take credit for it.

:rofl:

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

142. In my home town they opened up a Curves, but there was no gym for men.

It's a small town (about 4000 people). I don't think it is very fair to men. Men are forced to drive to some other town if they want to go to a gym. I think this is example of why the gyms shouldn't restrict based on gender. I am a woman, by the way. I have no problem with going to the same gym that men do.

[davidthegnome]

144. I know precious little about gyms in general, but

It seems to me that it would be unfair to have it both ways. That is, female only gyms while it would be illegal for men to do the same. I can, to some extent, sympathize with the views of those who believe that the oppressive male majority is not being oppressed by females having seperate gyms.

I can sympathize, but I do not agree. I am of the opinion that that kind of thinking makes it far more likely for the roles to be reversed - as in men being treated unfairly, seen as justified due to the history of oppression. It is entirely probable that that could and would be the case - I would go so far as to say that it is the case, in some situations.

If there are to be gender exclusive gyms, then it should reasonably and fairly extend to everyone. I'm not against that concept, but personally I'd probably be more inclined to go to a gym with both men and women. If there was a gym near me or I could afford a membership. Mainly because I tend (personally) to agree with ShortnFiery's philosophies regarding the issue.

It's also possible, perhaps even likely, that if we had a significant number of gender exclusive gyms some would be better funded, it is not unreasonable to assume that those would be the male gyms. I think it's reasonable to get involved in networking in a gym, whether for business reasons or friendship. I think it's quite common, from what I know - which again, is little.

I really need to point out though, that it is not at all impossible to oppress a majority, for any number of reasons. One of them being guilt.

I'd love it if I could live to see a day when all of this petty gender war bull shit would simply cease. In the meantime though, I think equal opportunities should be available to everyone, regardless of color, gender, sexual orientation or anything else. Zing points out a good example of how it can be unfair to have it one way and not another.

If anyone is curious, or has the desire to be condescending towards me, I am a white male living in a very rural area and am highly under-educated. :)

[LeftyMom]

145. Seems to me that the solution is to have rules and enforce them.

We don't need spaces free of men, only spaces free of leering douchebags. If a business wants to welcome women, they need to show male patrons who can't control themselves the door.