Amway Global, Quixtar, Alticor Inc.

[originalpckelly]

Just tell me one thing, do you get a creeped out feeling listening to their commercials? Do you just feel the oddness oozing from your TV? I do, and I know something is up with this company. Don't know the specifics now, but something is definitely up with them. EOM.

[Hannah Bell]

1. besides their family relation with blackwater & other creepy ventures?

yes.

[originalpckelly]

5. I think it sounds culty.

I'm reading their websites. It seems to me that this company has to explain itself too much. When you visit the websites of most companies, it usually doesn't contain a section on how credible of a business they are. The existence of that information suggests the creators of the information had inside knowledge of credibility problems.

Exhibit A:
http://www.thisbiznow.com/index.html

Throughout their sites, the images show JPEG distortion and lend a very odd 90sishness to their sites.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. They are like a cult..and they are a scam..a pyramid scheme..

[originalpckelly]

13. I wish I had the right software...

to take their websites and count how many times various buzz words appear. I've noticed they use business opportunity a lot. I want to know why such a successful corporation allows their graphics to be JPEG distorted. That just seems a tad off. Usually companies put up the best face they can for customers. When was the last time you saw JPED artifacts on any major website? It's a really silly thing to focus on, but I'm starting to think it's a symptom of something deeper. Like they're unwilling to spend the money for some reason on higher bandwidth.

[crispini]

26. Word cloud

http://www.wordle.net/

[DangerousRhythm]

18. Yep. I saved my mom from joining that crap.

Someone had approached her and I QUICKLY told her NO, don't do it! I sent her the sites explaining who they are and what they do and she later thanked me. :)

[KamaAina]

29. It is widely considered to be a cult

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway#Controversy

Several groups including those associated with the anti-cult movement have expressed concern that tactics of some of the organizations that support Amway IBOs may constitute cult-like activity. Steven Hassan's Freedom of Mind Center lists the practices of some of these groups as potentially abusive according to his "BITE" Model of mind control. Other similar organizations that have expressed concern with the activities of AMOs in practice include FACTnet, Cult Awareness and Information Centre (Australia), and others. The Rick Ross Institute keeps a collection of related material on its website. Steven Butterfield, a Vermont English professor, wrote 'Amway: The Cult of Free Enterprise', which a review in the Washington Monthly described as "chilling... Amway somehow devised a method for brainwashing its eager legions into sacrificing their lives to line the company's pocket, all the while convincing them that they're crusading for something much different."

:scared:

[Hannah Bell]

14. "sounds"? been cultish for eons. dominionist, r-wing, gov't-teat-sucking, propaganda-funding

parasites.

http://destroyamway.blogspot.com/2007/10/note-this-blog-post-is-reprinted-from_7767.html

http://destroyamway.blogspot.com/2008/01/another-amwayblackwater-family.html

http://iraqforsale.bravenewfilms.org/blog/344-blackwater-runs-red

[scoobiedavis]

28. Democrats and Amway

Thanks for linking to my anti-Amway Global blog (http://destroyamway.blogspot.com/). I also do a Sun Myung Moon blog (http://realsunmyungmoon.blogspot.com/). A while ago, I noticed the folly of Democratic Party for not taking on Amway and Moon's Unification Movement (http://scoobiedavis.blogspot.com/2007/01/democrats-are-chumps-two-case-studies.html). The simple fact is that these two scam organizations are two of the top funding agents of the GOP and reactionary causes. There is absolutely no downside for the Democrats to try to take these two groups on. Instead there is not only little that Dems do against these predatory groups but there are prominent Democrats who have given credibility to them, such as Hillary (http://realsunmyungmoon.blogspot.com/2007/11/note-this-blog-post-is-reprinted-from_01.html), Charles Rangel (http://realsunmyungmoon.blogspot.com/2007/11/note-this-blog-post-is-reprinted-from_2260.html) and a top candidate to take Barack Obama's Senate seat (http://realsunmyungmoon.blogspot.com/2008/11/hell-with-danny-davis-he-doesnt-deserve.html). It just doesn't make sense.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. They are all the same company, and have been prosecuted for pyramid schemes.

Do not EVER get involved with any of them.

[originalpckelly]

6. I might get involved, but not in the way you think...

I'm only interested in investigating them. They provide ample material to comb through and debunk on their sites. I think it's a scam, and now I'm determined to find out how.

One problem with this company is that it's privately held. Now there are a lot of privately held companies in America, but I'd venture a guess that they're not as controversial. That's a clue. The company doesn't have to be as transparent if it isn't publicly held.

[Aviation Pro]

9. Start with this....

....the IBOA web site, most of these asswipes are the same asswipes who were there 15 - 20 years ago. It's a tightly guarded community that seeks only to enrich themselves through their false claims (and they aggressively hide the fact that they make their money not through the sale of overpriced products but through the marketing of "tools").

Here's their web site: http://www.iboai.com/

[Larkspur]

15. Amway was tried but not convicted as a pyramid scheme

[Aviation Pro]

3. After a failed succession of name changes....

...the Devos and Van Andel clan think that it's safe to infect a new generation of "dreamers" with the Amway brand. I guess there are still plenty of Republicant suckers who believe in the "dream" of jewelhood.

[Canuckistanian]

4. I lost two friends because of Amway

Two good friends. Years apart.

They both called me out of the blue, wanting to get back together. Said they had something to share with me. Something about business.

"This isn't Amway, is it?" I ask. "No way" sez they.

Sure enough, I show up at the "business meeting" and it's an Amway pitch.

I leave, both times, before they even bring out the ghastly samples.

[deadmessengers]

7. Yup.

One of the most surreal experiences of my life was sitting through an Amway pitch done by a couple of real, honest-to-God true believers. It was like inviting Jehovah's Witnesses in to talk - logic just wasn't going to penetrate there. Very, very strange.

[BrklynLiberal]

11. They do become like members of some cult. It is soooo creepy.

[Larkspur]

17. Most salesman of any product are like members of a cult

Doesn't matter what they sell -- soap or insurance or financial services funds -- salesman are salesman.

[Larkspur]

44. Obama fanatics were referred to as a cult to and based on responses from some of them on DU

I have to agree.

[rwheeler31]

8. All this yuk out of the Michigan republican party, they are

disgusting.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Creepiness:

[Larkspur]

16. Actually, I really like their vitamins and L.O.C. soap

Amway is like Mary Kay, except Amway has products other than cosmetics.

I like Amway's vitamins because they are not coated in carnuba wax or similar substance. The US Army used the formula for Amway's vitamin skin to protect their medicines in tropic climates.

And the L.O.C. soap, which is their original product, I can use on any surface safely.

I don't like the Xtian Fundie mentality of some of their distributors or the pro-Republican philosophy, but the company I used to work for was pro-Republican too. Most CEO's and corporate execs are Republicans.

[Adsos Letter]

They have some decent products....

it's their marketing plan, and cultish approach to belonging, that are so objectionable.

I am friends with a couple who were heavily invested in Amway for years...it finally broke up their marriage when one wasn't able to maintain the discipline required to gain converts, move product, and hold onto the dream.

Any organization that relies on inviting people to "presentations" while refusing to disclose the nature/association of those programs prior to attending is suspect, in my book. :)

[TreasonousBastard]

19. Amway ran out of suckers to "downline" so...

Quixtar and a few other entities were born, but they still can't round up the suckers like they used to, so it looks like they're actually thinking about selling products instead of "business oportunities."

It's not just Amway, but the whole MLM thing is a cult no matter who's doing it. Check out one of those Crazy Fox sites and see how you can make brazillions getting other people to sell vitamins. I went to a "job interview" years ago where we told how we could sell this great package of a mutual fund, life insurance, and something else for around a 10% commission, but the point was to get enough people on our downline to get a piece of each of their sales. Since the total commissions added up to about 35%, I made the mistake of asking why I couldn't just get 30-40% on every sale I made and forget about the rest of the nonsense.

They threw me out.

It's as if they knew my next point was that nobody was going to sell more than one or two of their crappy packages a year, so you had to have this expanding sales network to keep sales moving and make a living out of it.

[Adsos Letter]

20. I went to an Amway presentation once....

the guy who invited me refused to say just what the presentation was about beforehand, other than that it was about an "opportunity"...

Forget waterboarding... just subject people to an extended Amway presentation, and you'll heve 'em talking soon enough...

[orleans]

21. lol n/t

[Dr.Phool]

38. My dentist pulled the same shit on me.

He must have done it to more than me. His waiting room kept getting thinner and thinner.

When he was finished with my work, I found another dentist.

[catzies]

39. My chiropractor started selling the Dianetics book...his waiting room thinned too

And I found another chiropractor.

BACK TO TOPIC: I thin we'll see more & more people considering these "business opportunities" as the economy worsens.

[ipfilter]

40. One would think a dentist

could make a decent living without getting into some MLM scheme.

[blondeatlast]

22. A good friend started selling Amway a decade ago. He is no longer a good friend;

i don't even have him on the Christmas card list. :scared:

Yes, the personality change in him was more than disturing. Ick. Ick. Ick.

[shellgame26]

23. They are part of an evil cult

that turns ordinary people into zombies. This is no hyperbole! I've had some really bizarre run-ins with some of these folk, very intelligent people too.

[Larkspur]

45. A lot of people feel that way about Obama fanatics

who act like militant zombies if anyone dares to criticize Saint Obama.

[noonwitch]

24. They also own hospitals in GR-Spectrum

they bought out Butterworth and Blodgett Hospitals in Grand Rapids. Additionally, they opened a Children's Hospital, although West Michigan did need such a facility. Detroit and Ann Arbor are too far away.

[blue_onyx]

25. I get flash backs to the 2006 election

The son (Dick DeVos) of the man who founded Amway almost became our Governor. Thankfully, the Democrats had a great candidate in Gov. Granholm to defeat DeVos. One of the reasons I've heard that DeVos won't run for Governor again in 2010 is because of the association with these companies. People have a negative reaction to the companies, just from hearing their names. Since the companies were in the news so much during the election, they felt the need to advertise to combat this negative perception. There were tons of positive Amway/Quixtar commercials during the election...a lot after the election too. So some think DeVos was pressured to not run again so that there is no unnecessary negative attention brought the companies.

[Larkspur]

33. The problem Devos had is that his Xtian fundamentalism tainted the Amway business

It's the Xtian fundamentalism that annoys most people and his rigid anti-choice positions turned off customers and potential new distributors.

[ipfilter]

27. I lost my best friend to Amway.

He morphed from a perfectly normal hard working and ambitious person to just downright creepy. He totally bought into the Amway mentality. His car trunk was full of Amway propaganda, he ate the vitamins, and was constantly using the Amway breath freshener. He tried like hell to get me to join and I refused. He took my refusal as a personal insult and even went so far as to blame me for his own personal misfortunes. At best the people who push Amway from the top are Charlatans. Those at the top know their whole business model is a scam and the only way they make money is from selling their motivational propaganda. Trying to convince a bamboozled Away seller that they are suckers is like trying to convince a three year old that Santa isn't real.

Oh, and they are all total right wing fundie wackos as well.

[NickB79]

35. I almost lost my best friend in exactly the same way to Quixtar

His wife had the common sense to pull him back from the brink, but we didn't speak for months between my outright refusal to join up and his realization that he was being screwed.

[Alter Ego]

30. Yeah cause they're all scams.

Quixtar especially.

[walldude]

31. Man you ought to go to one of their "meetings"

Talk about creepy... I used to do A/V for corporate events. XOKCowboy and I have spent quite a bit of time with Amway and Herbalife and other companies like that. It is a cult. It's run like a cult and they use cult methods for "brainwashing" their "sales people".

The easiest thing to remember is if someone asks you to pay for the privilege of working for them, it's a scam.

[Larkspur]

32. Amway didn't ask people to work for them

Distributors are small business people, not employees of Amway. Buying the kits and motivational materials is not much different than what other companies offer their sales people Amway has their own employees who work at their plant in Michigan.

If you remove the Xtian Fundamentalism from Amway, then you have the same setup other corporations have for their sales people. Every corporation I ever worked for held conventions for their sales people and used business motivational tactics similar to Amway. All sales people are under pressure to deliver. Sales isn't for everyone.

[TrogL]

36. How to make money at Amway

Wanna know how the upstream people make their money at Amway?

It's not the percentage on what the downstream sells.

It's the markup on the kits and motivational materials.

That's why they're constantly harassing their downstream to attend sales conventions - so they can plug more tapes, CD's and books.

[Larkspur]

42. I am an individual Amway/Quixtar distributor and you are wrong.

The upstream distributors do not mark up the kits. ALL Individual distributors get a price list of ALL products and business materials, including the sales kits, so the upstream distributors can not mark them up. You are wrong about how upstream distributors make their money.

Upstream distributors make their money via selling products and getting a kind of bonus from Amway for how their entire sponsorship organization performs. Downstream distributors do not pay a fee to their sponsor. If the upstream sponsor has a bunch of downstream distributors who do nothing, the upstream sponsor gets nothing except what he/she does.

[walldude]

37. Amway didn't ask people to work for them

Bullshit. They hold these stupid seminars where people come in and Amway brings in their "Diamond" level sales people to prove just how rich you can get selling Amway products. But if you want to be rich you have to buy the sales kit, the product and the motivational crap. They hone in on the weak minded and foolish, they look for a specific type of person they can easily fool and then they work them over till they cave in.

Amway doesn't pray they prey. I've seen it firsthand. I've seen them wear down someone who was just clever enough to be suspicious but weak enough to be defeated.

Legitimate sales jobs do not ask you for money up front, you work on commission.

[Larkspur]

41. The sales kit is part of individual distributor's business expense

which is tax deductible as a business expense. That's what I did when I was an active distributor 20 years ago. Anyway the kit 20 years ago was around $80. It costs a lot more to setup your own business than that. Don't know what it costs today.

I never signed a W-2 form as a distributor so I was NOT an employee of my sponsor or his. The sales people you are referring to are W-2 employees. The sales people who are not W-2 employees are independent businessmen. My finanacial planner is an independent businessman who sells a certain company's annuities and funds. Like Amway distributors, my financial planner only sells annuities and products from a certain Massachusetts based financial and insurance company.

I'm still an Amway/Quixtar distributor today but I use it primarily to buy their products at wholesale cost.

[TrogL]

34. Amway hands out Bibles at their sales meetings

They made a point of announcing that there was not going to be an altar call. :wtf:

[Larkspur]

43. They never did at my meetings

What you are talking about is a local, not a nationwide, event that depends on the main sponsoring distributor. It's not a company policy.