Official "Conservatives are out of power in Canada" party thread! Complete with party music!)

[HEyHEY]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/12/01/coalition-talks.html

So, the basics of this is that the left wing parties in Canada have come together just six weeks after an election and said, "I think not." To the Conservative's plans... major issues are:

The cons wanted to end government funding of political parties that get a certain percentage of the vote. This would have crippled their opposition, a dirty, undemocratic thing to do.

They also wanted to make it illegal for government employees to strike.

The Cons shelved those two after outrage and the left threatening to overthrow them. Then they refused to offer an economic stimulus in the budget, bad for this time in history. They wanted to wait to see what the USA would do. So, the left banded together. The Liberals and NDP have become a coalition with the Bloc Quebecois supporting them. So, if the Governor General says they can become the government, they will become the government. If not, we have a vote to bring down the government and another election. Either way, it appears the cons are DONE. A realy funny sidenote is that the Governor General is a woman from Haiti. I love that the fate of the nation rests on the shoulder of a black woman from another country representing an old white woman from yet ANOTHER country.


Party music!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuE2gi02prY :party: :party: :party: :party:

[LisaM]

1. Thanks for the summary. I watched the news on CBC last night

but you explained in much more succinctly!

And good news, too.

[HEyHEY]

3. Well, I am a pro

;-)

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. Party! Sounds like you have an interesting 8 months or so coming up

Because it's only after that you'll know who the new leader of the Liberals will be, presumably becoming PM at that time.

The piece says the G-G could potentially say there should be a new election anyway. How likely is that?

:toast:

[HEyHEY]

5. Not sure, part of me thinks the Libs wouldn't have done this if they didn't see her allowing it

I love how the fate of Canada now rests on the shoulders of a black woman from Haiti!

[DeepBlueC]

45. I think it is unlikely

If the opposition can form a government with NDP support that is the preference. If times are so tough NO ONE wants to spend another bunch of millions on an election. And since presumably another Harper minority can be brought down by the same coalition, the only reasonable course is to permit the opposition to form a government.

[Downtown Hound]

4. Dons party hat....

Shouts in celebration, "May they fall all over the world!"

Congrats to you Canadians. :toast:

[Cronopio]

6. Amazing what effective political opposition can do in a government that actually works.

Which we had that kind of thing here in the States. Maybe after Jan 20, 2009?

Congrats to all progressive Canucks!

[GreenPartyVoter]

78. Indeed

[Robbien]

7. Was just reading about this. What a neat thing to be happening

From the article I was reading Harper's budget plan was just more of the same but also packed full of gimmicks to benefit Harper and his party. The coalition government would put forth a stimulus plan for the economy that would include money for housing, infrastructure and the auto and forestry sectors.

Hard to believe. By next week--Poof, he's gone.

Congrats!!!

[HEyHEY]

10. Gone for good we hope

[Matariki]

8. Yay! Congratulations Canada!

:fistbump:

[LeftishBrit]

9. Great news!

[enigmatic]

11. I'm loving this

About time, too. :toast:

[HEyHEY]

12. Harper has been out-politicked!

he he he

[Alexander]

13. I heard the NDP is okay with Dion as prime minister, is this true?

Does this mean that every single Liberal Party leader in Canada will have been Prime Minister?

[HEyHEY]

14. Well, the first question is a yes, the second I'm not sure.

[Alexander]

16. If the first answer is a yes, it looks like the second answer is yes, since Laurier.

"Starting with Wilfrid Laurier in 1896 every leader of the party (excepting current leader Stéphane Dion) has served as Prime Minister of Canada."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_party_of_canada

[Clintonista2]

60. Not including Dion, only 1 liberal party leader has never been elected PM, Edward Blake

[DonCoquixote]

15. Yes we can

and yes you did! As I non parlez francais, you will need to supply the French equivalent! Gotta keep the Bloc Quebecois happy :)

[HEyHEY]

18. The bloc can kiss my ass, but I like their support.

[GoneOffShore]

56. May I ask why you're not keen on the Bloc Quebecois?

[HEyHEY]

59. Cause they're a bunch of bigoted Quebecois who want to split my country in two?

[GoneOffShore]

68. Oh. Thought it was just because they spoke French.

I'll have to read up on Canadian history.

[HEyHEY]

69. In this country, it's the french who are the bigots.

[Ravachol]

70. It's hardly that simple.

If we were the bigots you say we, collectively, are, could you explain to me why we're the second province with the largest immigration, just behind Ontario? Why we have the highest number of international adoptions of all Canadian provinces? Why we have the highest proportion of bilinguals in Canada? Why we were the third province to allow gay mariage (with complete and equal rights) if we're such bigots?

We're a very open and tolerant society and I believe you know better.

Things are hardly so simple as to say: "French = bigots cause they want to secede and we're the good guys". Quebec is more than 82% french speaking (mother tongue), with 95% of the people who either have french as their first or second language. We have an history of being considered as second-zone citizens of this very country. Up until the 40s, most companies were owned by Englishmen but the workforce - very lowly paid - was composed of us, french guys. Would you say Ireland or Scotland is full of bigots just because they, too, have "strong" separatist movements?

You may say that situation is a thing of the past but it is hardly so: I'm young (23) and my own parents had to speak english to their "bosses".

Now, am I against english speaking people? Not at all. I speak english fluently and have many friends in Canada and the USA. But one must recognize we are a distinct people, with its own laws, constitution, national assembly and yes, language and culture. That said, do I want to secede from Canada? Not really. I think we face tough economic times that require us to stick together and find solutions. You say the Bloc represents the bigoted face of Quebec, I do not agree. The Libs aren't exactly well liked in Quebec. Conservatives have won a few seats in our real conservative areas (those are bigots, to be honest). NDP, unfortunately, never had any campaign here, to speak of. Their first good candidate in two decades, Thomas Mulclair, was elected. So we're left with the Bloc Quebecois, a left-leaning party that says it will defend Quebec's interests in Ottawa. The BQ can't propose secession or independence. All they can do is work compromises so we can make sure our voice is heard in Ottawa.

As both a Quebecer and a NDP voter, I welcome this coalition with open arms.

Note: Sorry for the somewhat confuse post. I simply reacted to the "french = bigots". We aren't. There isn't more "anti-english french speaking guys here", in proportion, than there is "anti-french english speaking guys in Canada".

[HEyHEY]

73. I lived in Quebec and as an English person was discriminated against

I lived in Trois Riveries, I was there to study french and have been in dangerous situations because of my being english. You don't sound like a Quebecois, you sound like a Quebecer and there is a difference. Quebecors are normal people who are from Quebec. Quebecois are the racist assholes running the place federally. Quebec may have all this immigration and such, but it is still much more openly accepting of racism than any part of Canada. Rememeber the "ethnic vote" comment. Plus your distinct society bollocks can kiss mine. All of english Canada is not the same. In fact Newfoundland is VASTLY different from British Columbia, but we're all the same to you, arent' we?
As well, this discrimination, which did exist, is a thing of past. Get over it and stop the cycle of repression. I live in Vancouver, Asians own much of this city, do you see us pissing a moaning about it? No, we're supposed to be an accepting country.

[Ravachol]

75. Were you attacked?

To me, Quebecer or Quebecois is the same, Quebecois is simply the french word. We're french speaking, remember?

The "openly accepting of racism" is complete bollocks. I've seen racist assholes from everywhere, I've been called a frog and other different names in nearly every province or state I've been (or a french sucker, a wuss, name it, etc.).

The "ethnic vote" comment was unfortunate and widely denounced here, even by politicians on his (Jacques Parizeau is the guy who said that) side of the aisle.

We're not repressing people. English speaking people are as free as any other citizen in Quebec. Do you see waves of English people fleeing our land? No. Now, kindly please stop with the accusations: it's not like these people couldn't resettle somewhere else easily: Ontario is barely three hours from Montreal. Any english speaking person can get health and education services here in Quebec, in their language.

As for the Newfoundlands being very different from B.C, I agree. It is different. But do you guys have a different history? A different language? A very different culture? Different ancestors? Different laws? A different constitution?

We are a distinct nation but part of Canada. This isn't hard to understand. It's why all the provincial parties here, in Quebec, voted unanimously to recognize our status as a nation. Yeah, even the very federalist Liberal Party of Quebec.

Anyway, back on topic, this is a good thing for both Canada and Quebec as far as I'm concerned.

[HEyHEY]

77. I've been yelled at, I've been served second in bars once people heard my accent

as for this "But do you guys have a different history? A different language? A very different culture?"


YES WE DO. While both have alot of Irish and UK blood, BC also has a HUGE Asian influence going back just as long as the english in this province, in fact our chinatown is pushing to be a unesco world heritage site for its unique blend of Italian and chinese architecture. As well the language may as well be different at the accents are totally different as are common expressions. BC is a chinese/english culture. But does the federal government try to understand this? No. We have French Immersion instead of chinese immersion. Why? Because we are held hostage by eastern Canada and their french/english bullshit. What about New Brunswick? You're no more distinct than any of these examples. And to strut around like you deserve special treatment because you speak a different language is pathetic. You guys don't just want to make sure your language doesn't disappear, that I could understand. You use your power to piss and moan to get advantages and special treatment other provinces could only dream of, it's disgusting. And none of it has to do with your culture.

And don't give me that un repressive bollocks. A large section of Quebec separatists are as racist as the worst of them. You guys barely even recognize english townships in your province, you should talk to my old roomate about what it's like to be black in Quebec.

I should also point out, while I was there I met many wonderful Quebecors. It's just this distinct bullshit turns my stomach.

[Ravachol]

81. Generalizations FTW, I guess.

We're no more distinct than New Brunswick's small french population or the Chinese immigration in B.C? What the hell?

We're a french province. Not by any small margin. We have a huge french speaking majority. And you compare that to what? N.B's 20% french population? Heck, in most places in Canada, even close to Quebec, I can't get anything in french. While in all of Quebec, people will try to speak to you in english.

As for racism in Quebec, it's pure bullshit. You have no statistics to back that and you know it. It's pure generalization from "first-hand account".

I'm done with this debate.

[HEyHEY]

83. Statistics on racism? Get a fucking grip.

What are they gonna do? Walk around and say, "excuse me sir, are you a racist?" Then mark down the answer?

I think a province with an extremely rare version of french AND a french/english government is much more distinct than just going one way or another. And I think that that the huge community of Chinese Canadians in BC and their influence on english society in BC makes for a large difference too. Your dismissal of them as not as distinct shows you're just another arrogant, ignorant Quebec bigot.

My other roomie in TR once told me that he didn't like it when he found out he was going to be living with an Englishman. Then when we became friends he realized he'd never actually really known any english people but had been steered toward disliking them his entire life. Sounds like you need an english friend.

[Ravachol]

85. Considering I'm actually

engaged to a lovely woman from NYC, I think I can do without your advice.

I thought I wouldn't respond anymore as I didn't feel the need to but here it is:

From the very start of this thread, you've been nothing but arrogant toward french speaking people and Quebecois (or Quebecers, god forbid we use the french term for our own citizens, unless we want to be called ignorant bigots... :wtf: ). I tried answering you politely, while you've made nothing but broad generalizations toward an entire population of more than six millions (if we count only the french speaking portion of the province). I gave you counter examples, you brushed them aside as if they were nothing but details.

Quebec is far from being a province full of bigots. We are on the left of nearly every other province in terms of politics and it shows. Even our center-right parties - like the Liberal Party of Quebec - is to the left of the Liberal Party of Canada. Heck, our nationalist parties - ignorant assholes as you would call them - are close to the NDP in terms of policies. We have a vibrant multicultural city - Montreal - and there is virtually no case of racist aggressions.

Oh yeah, while you may think it's crazy, there are statistics on racism. Any industrialized country has them. Sure, they do not represent every case of racism. Sure, most people who get insulted don't report it as racist abuse. But if those abuses were as frequent as you maintain them to be (and as an antifascist/anti-racist activist, I assure you they are not), aggressions would be high as well. Thing is? They aren't. And I'll take the fact that there is no major outcry of racism from any well established community and their "community organizers/leaders" as a more reliable sign that racism is declining here than your first hand experiences (in an unknown moment in the past) in a freakin' bar.

I didn't dismiss the Asiatic influence in B.C and the French Acadian influence in N.B as irrevelant, I said it was less marked than French influence here in Quebec. Now, if you want to argue against that, be my guest. I simply feel you're the one who hates us and is making sweeping generalizations based on nothing but his own prejudices.

Good evening,
Rav.

[HEyHEY]

86. Nothing but more bullshit.

Statistics on racism are extremely inaccurate. And BTW you telling me that there aren't bigots in Quebec is very similar to white people telling black people there isn't racism in the USA. I haven't been arrogant toward French speaking people of Quebec, I've been arrogant toward yet another "My shit don't stink" fuckjob from Quebec who feels his "people" deserve special treatment cause they speak a language no one has any fucking interest in. And frankly I love Quebec. I just hate the bullshit that comes with it. If you guys weren't exempt from conscription I could at least have more respect for the separatist movement.. but you never earned thing.

You have probably never BEEN to Vancouver. Yet you try to tell me that Quebec is More distinct? Why? Cause a majority of you speak french? Cause a corrupt Quebec "education" system tells you it is? fuck that, biatch, I'm in thee MOST multicultural city in the world.... doesn't get anymore distinct. But, if you wanna keep insisting your white bread "Fuck everyone who isn't french" culture is special, be my guest. Fuck you and your sense of entitlement, ass wipe, cause I got some news for you... the West is about to have a major surge in separation, to my dismay (Cause it'll be of a conservative nature) It's all your fucking fault. And you assholes will finally have your own Nation... and what a sad, broke nation it will be.

PS. Ever notice how many nations with issues such as Quebec don't have these whiny fucks demanding special treatment? Either leave or don't. Know why you're pissed? Cause I'm right, asshole.

[HEyHEY]

17. Know why I like this the most? It is SUCH a smack in the face to Harper ha!

[Rosco T.]

19. Ho! Ha! Rick Mercer will be interesting Tueday!

by by Steven "Dubya" Harper... couldn't happen to a nicer prick!

[HEyHEY]

22. He'll likely lose his job now too.

[Rosco T.]

23. Why would Mercer lose his job? He's an equal oppertunity satarist?

[HEyHEY]

24. harper, you numbskull!

*Makes three stooges smacking motion*

[Rosco T.]

30. OW! Nuyk, Nuyk, Nuyk. I'm a victim of circumstance!

[HEyHEY]

37. he he

[terrya]

20. Dion would be the Prime Minister?

Didn't he give up his Liberal party leadership after the recent election?

Gosh, your politics are interesting! :-)

:thumbsup:

[HEyHEY]

21. He will be, sadly, until May when the Libs have a leadership convention

[Alexander]

25. Could he pull a Trudeau and stay on as Liberal leader?

Didn't Trudeau do that in 1980?

[HEyHEY]

28. Yeah, but Trudeau was trudeau, this is Dion

Who knows, maybe he'll surprise us. I doubt it though.

[Alexander]

32. You'd think if he becomes PM that he'd stay on as party leader...

Do you know who would be likely to succeed him if he did continue with his resignation?

[HEyHEY]

34. Probably Ignatief, unless I run.

[Posteritatis]

44. That'd require him to be Trudeauesque (nt)

[Ichingcarpenter]

26. Great News!! What's the earliest that this could happen and

What is the latest this could happen in both scenarios?

[HEyHEY]

29. It could all be in place by Monday....

Latest is a bit of a tough call... either way by the end of next week it should be settled.

[terrya]

33. I think most voters will be happy.

I'm not sure how much stomach Canadian voters would have going through yet another Federal election so soon after your most recent one.

[HEyHEY]

35. Fuck the voters, what about us poor bastards in the press

Jesus, here in Vancouver we've gone through a federal, civic, and two by-elections in two months plus the US presidential election. We're tired, god dammit!

[terrya]

39. Well, you won't have to worry about a US Presidential election for a while.

Although, down here, that's 2 years from now. :-(

Here's hoping things calm down for you members of the press.

[HEyHEY]

41. They won't in a few months we have a Provincial election...

[Ichingcarpenter]

36. Wow..... so a coalition government and a Liberal as the PM?

this will be great news to many around the world.

[HEyHEY]

38. that's about the size of it.

[Clintonista2]

61. Harper could try to prorogue parliament before the confidence vote on the 8'th

That would require the assent of the Governor General, however, and it seems unlikely she would agree to this.

[noiretextatique]

27. congratulations!

:toast:

[nadinbrzezinski]

GOOD! Love it when things go this way

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. GOOD! Love it when things go this way

[Stinky The Clown]

40. Does this cause a change in PM, too?

[HEyHEY]

43. yeah. fuckhead is gone

[stevedeshazer]

42. Great news. And it makes a great point.

This story illustrates a big advantage that a multi-party parliamentary system has over the US constitutional system. Namely, haste.

It takes much too long to change direction in U.S. government.

Congratulations to the parties involved in the agreement, especially the NDP.

Progressives in the United States have no power because of a two-party system which excludes us. Our Democratic party is far from liberal.

But, HEyHEY, you already know that.

[Posteritatis]

46. I think the speed aspect is by design

The political tradition that put together the American government distrusts government in general far less than, say, the Canadian or British example. I'm pretty much convinced your constitution is set up to actively hobble the government if it tries to do too much at any one time, because they were worried about what would happen if any one part of it had the power and support to do so without a lot of popular backing.

Fair enough, I think, again especially considering how it came about in the first place. The only times it's been able to happen are when pretty much everybody's behind the president (or at least Congress).

Remember, up here we don't have "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." We have "peace, order, and good government." Until relatively recently, we've been more comfortable with stuff like this. The reaction to this one from the right is a big example of the attitude itself changing, though. If this goes through, it will be our third ever coalition government, and our first since the First World War. I think it'll also be the first that didn't happen with the consent of the government in power, too.

We're used to tossing the government out on confidence issues and then going to the polls over it. What's going on now is perfectly legitimate (and I'm not just saying that because I support it; I'd be annoyed at the Conservatives and another party setting up a coalition but I'd accept it constitutionally), but it's really, really uncommon in Canadian politics. It'll make quite a few people uncomfortable too, and we're probably going to have a lot of overdue discussion about all the options when the government paints itself into this kind of corner.

Until then, I'm sitting back with a certain measure of interested delight not only in the proceedings, but in the fact that quite a few people are scurrying off to learn a bit more about how the government up here works.

[stevedeshazer]

48. I appreciate that insight

Most Americans don't follow politics in America, let alone Canada.

Yes, the U.S. Constitution was made to be bullet-proof, at least in the sense that it would be very hard to make quick changes.

Nevertheless, the infrequency of coalition government in Canada underscores the magnitude of its re-occurrence. I still admire the ability for multiple parties to have an overall effect on government.

By the way, "peace, order, and good government" are just as admirable pursuits.

That Queen thing seems kind of weird, though. :)

Thanks for your considerate response.

[arikara]

47. Finally something to get excited about in Canadian politics!

That creep Harper governed as if he had a majority last time and the others just let him. But he seriously misjudged how far he could push the peanut gallery.

I don't like Ignatieff at all though and hope Gerard Kennedy throws his hat in the ring again. I would seriously consider voting liberal if that happened.

[Canuckistanian]

49. Am I fashionably late?

:party: :toast: :party: :toast: :party: :toast: :party: :toast: :party: :toast: :party: :toast: :party:

And NDP in the cabinet! :woohoo: This is the closest the NDP got to national leadership!

[HEyHEY]

50. I just wonder if the Cons did this all on purpose

Nasty economic times ahead, who wants to wear this shit?

[Canuckistanian]

52. No, they probably expected Dion to cave as usual

Our household has a personal stake in this.

One of the things Harper wanted to cut is the retroactive pay raise court settlement for female civil service workers.

My wife is in Stats Canada in Ottawa and she was looking forward to her raise.

Now the Tories are screaming "the Liberals are allied with the (scary) NDP and the separatists!! Oh Noes!"

I'll take my chances with a progressive coalition, thanks.

[enlightenment]

51. I'm not terribly familiar with the process, but isn't there

a third option - the delaying tactic? If Harper asks her to prorogue parliament, she could do that, right?

[HEyHEY]

53. yeah, but then we all get to call Harper a coward.

[Canuckistanian]

54. Yes, she could. But everyone would KNOW it's a delaying tactic.

Harper MUST have a "non-confidence type" vote on the budget, and soon.

If he doesn't lose power now, it will be in January. He can't escape it now.

[eridani]

55. Of course, just like in the US there's probably plenty of cleaning up to be done n/t

[HEyHEY]

57. not too much, cause it's been a minority for three years.

So he never got to REALLY fuck it up.

[2Design]

58. kick

[Laelth]

62. That's nice to hear. Thanks for the report. n/t

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.
(but Canada is more liberal)

:dem:

-Laelth

[Ohio Joe]

63. Congrats to our Canadian DU'ers

Well, I should say to all Canadians :toast:

[Iggo]

64. Wow.

What a fun way to run a country. I like it.

[ClayZ]

65. Bravo, CANADA!

K adn R

[barbtries]

66. i wish we in the US

could make such sweeping changes in such short periods of time. our system needs an overhaul.

[Evoman]

67. It's pretty fucking exciting. On a sidenote, Michaëlle Jean is one of the most beautiful woman I

have ever seen.

Saw her in person....absolutely striking, even better than on tv.

[glinda]

71. Congratulations Canada!!!!!!!!!!

Canada and the US will make beautiful music together.:toast: :toast: :fistbump: :fistbump: :yourock: :applause:

[EFerrari]

72. Congrats to you, HEyHEY!

:party:

[eppur_se_muova]

74. To late to rec, dagnabbit!

You kids go out and party. Don't mind me.

[New Dawn]

76. Kick!

[Ediacara]

79. I TOLD you that the Libs and NDP should join up!

I'm glad they followed my advice!

[ColbertWatcher]

80. You crazy Canucks! You never really get going until it's freezing outside! Congrats! n/t

[Rosco T.]

82. I have a Starchoice system down here in 'the southern provinces"

and I find Canadian politics fascinating.

Harper is a dick, Dubya Lite.

Dion is.. well, he's may not be the most interesting, but he seems a decent sort.

But I think Jack Layton is a TRIP!

[HEyHEY]

84. Here's today's question period a hoot

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/question-period---dec-2/#clip117957