So our family has bought a 3rd car....a Toyota

[Progressive_In_NC]

For years our family of four has had 3 cars. A commuter car for myself; a family car for my wife and kids (and me on the weekends); and a Ford Truck for hauling stuff (it sits parked most of the time).

Well, my wife's car is 9 years old and it's giving out; it's an old Ford minivan. We just went to look, and we went to the ford dealership. We test drove a Ford Freestyle and we liked it a lot and sat down to talk terms. The price negotiation took 45 minutes and was painful, the dealer didn't want to come down on the price at all. We got a hard (HARD) sell on finish protectors and things like that. They brought us a deal sheet that had 6 or 7 extra "fees" on it; and they tried to sell us a 5 year/60,000 mile warranty that cost $3200.00 and covered a limited number of things on the car.

They also offered us the low end of the range for our trade-in and were not willing to budge on it.
Judging from the three other groups of folks in the entire dealership, one would have thought they'd be more than willing to deal a bit.

So we said we'd like to shop around. On the way home, we stopped at the Toyota place. They put us a Sienna, and we liked that too. When we sat down, we were given a deal sheet with 2 fees on it other than the price of the car. The price negotiation took 5 minutes and the dealer didn't even counter when we said we wanted $2500 off the price (the guy at the Ford place nearly went through the roof). There was no hard sell on the extras, and they offered a 7 year/100,000 mile bumper to bumper (everything included) warranty. They also guaranteed that if we didn't need it we would get the full cost of the warranty ($2195.00) back from them at the end of the term. If we only used a portion, we would get the difference back.
And they gave us the high end of the value of our trade in too.

Every table in the showroom had someone sitting at it waiting to talk to a sales rep (I'd guess there were 20-30 buying parties there as we were leaving.

Of those two experiences, one felt very consumer friendly and the other felt very adversarial. I never expected to own a Toyota, but after the way I was treated at the Ford place, I am pretty sure that in Raleigh, it's not the Detroit workers or quality that's the problem.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. You should have gone to Saturn. No hassel at all.

[rasputin5]

2. We have 3 Toys right now. One is a 1983 pickup with an odometer that quit at 245000 miles

a few years ago. It's a clunker now but we use it all the time to haul nasty stuff around. :D

[JVS]

3. Gee, you'd think that the dealer would be kissing your butt at the Ford dealership

I guess their sales must be fine.

[NNN0LHI]

4. What kind of business are you in if you don't mind me asking?

[Progressive_In_NC]

15. I'm a software architect (read old programmer) at a family owned company in Raleigh

Used to be a full-time travel IT consultant, until my wife and I had kids, but now I like the home life.

[Jim__]

5. About 30 years ago I went to trade my Ford Galaxy into a Ford Dealer.

The car was about 6 or 7 years old and in good shape. They offered me something like $250 for it. When I argued, he told me nobody drives big cars like that any more. I agreed with him. And I told him that 7 year old Toyotas were still selling for pretty close to their original price. Told him I'd go buy one of them. I haven't owned a Ford since.

I guess some things just never change.

[gollygee]

6. I have a Sienna too

First foreign-company car I've owned. It is a very nice car, but American-company cars are nice too. I've had mine for 2 years and nothing at all has gone wrong with it. It's been absolutely perfect.

[scheming daemons]

7. I had a '99 Sienna that I put 120,000 miles on... traded it in for a '06 that now has 60,000 on it

Never had a problem with either, at all.

[Progressive_In_NC]

21. We'd have bought the Freestyle...if the dealer would have been in a better mood

We already own a contour and an F-150. I have no problem with the concept of American cars. I may have caught the sales manager on a bad day, who knows.

[Kalyke]

8. I'm sorry.

Toyota: Most recalled cars in the nation.

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jul2006/bw20060717_855947.htm

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/08/the-most-recall.html

[leftofcool]

12. That was in 2006

Can you drive a ford and get 400,000 miles on it before it conks out? We can with our Toyotas(all 3 previous ones) and our new Yaris gets 46 mpg on the highway

[SidDithers]

31. Kelley Blue Book's 2009 Best Resale Value winners

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2008/11/kelley-blue-boo.html

2009 Best Resale Value: top 10 brands
% of MSRP at resale

Honda — 44.5%
Toyota — 42.7%
Volkswagen — 40.9%
Subaru — 39.4%
Lexus — 38.7%
BMW — 38%
Infiniti — 37.3%
Acura — 36.8%
Audi — 36.5 %
Nissan — 36.5%

Sid

[LisaM]

9. Did you only try one Ford dealership?

Or did you have that experience multiple places?

[Kalyke]

10. Shhh... this is a "Foreign cars - good; American cars - bad" thread.

Don't mess it up with facts!!

[Renew Deal]

17. What facts?

Other than you maligning the OP.

[Progressive_In_NC]

18. Nope we own two american cars already, and my post clearly said

That here in Raleigh it's not the workers or the quality that was the holdup....it was the dealers in this case.

[rasputin5]

20. Pssst: that ? at the end means it's a question. Not a fact.

:eyes:

[thrift_store_angel]

23. Facts like these?

2008's Best- And Worst-Performing Cars

It's an entirely different story, however, for the two Japanese auto giants, Toyota and Honda. The best-performing cars, according to our rankings, are all made by these two carmakers, with Toyota claiming six spots and Honda four in the top 10.

[JuniperLea]

24. Oh, you mean like your two year old information up thread?

I owned American cars all my life, until my last car, a Mazda. I had nothing but trouble with anything newer than our 77 Chevy pick-up... which is still on the road. When I needed a fuel efficient car in 2002, I went to Ford, Chevy, Chrysler and Olds... they had nothing fuel efficient that wasn't already made in Japan. So, I cut out the middle man. I have 130,000 miles on said Mazda, and it runs like a top. The American auto companies have been asleep at the switch. And they still are. Anyone who shows up at a beggar's banquet in a private jet isn't playing with a full deck.

[Old Codger]

28. Mazda

Is a ford..... same vehicle, made by ford....

[JuniperLea]

35. Not this model, not in 2002

Mine was made in Japan.

[Justyce]

14. That's what I'm thinking, it's the dealership, because I got nearly $7000

off of my Escape Limited when I bought it.

And on a side note, I was tossing around a Nissan, a Jeep, a Mazda, a Toyota, and the Escape (all similar, small SUVs). The other thing that helped me decide to go with the Ford beside the price was the fact that the insurance on the Escape was HALF what it was on all the others. I couldn't figure out why that would be, but I was told it's because the parts are so much cheaper should it need repairs.

[Progressive_In_NC]

22. We live about 5 miles from a Ford, Mazda, Toyota and Chevrolet dealership

Right now Mazda nad Chevy are making nothing we wanted to buy. We didn't travel that far from home but the Sienna was such a good deal we couldn't pass it up. The KBB resale value is 6K more than our price.

[customerserviceguy]

36. Ford dealers lie for a living

Two years ago, the linkage on my Hyundai's windsheild wipers failed, and the dealer I took the car to was a Ford dealer that happened to also sell Hyundai's on the side. They charged me about $125 bucks for what they called a "temporary" repair, and told me that to really "fix" the wipers, it would cost another $350 bucks.

Still going strong. I'll admit, I used a lot of Rain-X to avoid using the wipers for the first year of that repair, but after I moved to NY (in the vicinity of a Hyundai-only dealer) and got some full time work, I've just used them as I would have normally.

Every person I've talked to who has dealt with Ford dealers over the last ten or so years has horror stories of the event. It's not surprising to me to hear of the OP's experience, I would imagine they're getting aggressively hungry right now.

[amdezurik]

39. the other dealerships in the area probably

know sometimes one is al it takes for a customer. Unless there is a compelling reason why not try a competitor? that's free market in all it's glory...

[Greyhound]

11. Our dealership model is a great detriment to American auto sales.

I sold cars for a brief period (I did very well, but just couldn't live with myself doing it) and learned how the game works. The dealerships probably do more to push customers toward foreign cars than the manufacturers ever could.

The short version is that the entire industry is based on lies, the manufacturers lie to the dealerships who lie to the sales managers who lie to the salespeople who lie to the customers.

Lastly, while I've never actually seen one, I'm told that there are some good ones out there.

[JBear]

13. I am interested in which dealers these are...

I have had the same experience in Raleigh but between the two Toyota dealerships. One was offended at my asking for anything and the other was willing to make a sale. Granted, this was 10 years ago and things might have changed, but I am interested to know.

That said, our friends got the Ford version of the experience at both Toyota dealers here. They ended up getting their Prius in Henderson.

You just never know!

:bounce:

[Progressive_In_NC]

16. We had our experiences at the Ford and Toyota Dealerships on Capital BLVD

If you look them up, you can figure them out. :).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. We will probably never buy another Toyota. The one's we have will probably outlive us.

'91 Tercel paid $5000 for it new.
'94 4x4 pickup paid $13000 for it new.

Unbreakable, bottom of the line, best (as in most reliable) cars we ever owned.

Not nearly as fun as the '61 Triumph I owned in college, or as profanity stirring as the many American cars I swore at and repaired endlessly.

[IDemo]

27. Bought our 4x4 in '93, paid cash

It just crossed the 45k mark on the odometer. I figure it should be broke-in after another few years. :hi:

[ceile]

29. You're absolutely right.

My sister's '90 Tercel still runs like a top. Drove it from TX to NY a few years back. I hope our Yaris lasts as long.

[sledgehammer]

25. Some friendly advice...

...on the warranty. The dealerships sell them for an insane markup. You can get the exact same warranty for a lot less. I know we can all do with a bit of savings in this economy.

Reach out to the guy whose info is below. FYI, I don't know him at all. I got his info from a Toyota discussion forum (you can search him online - his name is in lots of discussion groups). And I paid less than half of what the dealer was selling it for.

If you can still return your warranty, I would suggest checking this angle out.

(PS to moderator: Apologies if this post is inappropriate. I am a newbie so I could be out of line. If you delete it, I will learn! Thanks.)


**********************

Troy Dietrich

[e-mail]
[e-mail]

Phone - [phone] (Dealership)
Phone - [phone] (My direct line).

**********************

[Old Codger]

42. Believe it or not

Gieco will do the same warrenty as the dealers for under $50 a year... Actually I pay $46 per car for 05 chev pickup and o5 saturn vue.

[WhollyHeretic]

26. I bought a Toyota last year and had the opposite experience.

The first Toyota dealer refused to negotiate either the price of the car or my trade in. The second dealership finally gave me the deal I wanted but it took a while. I had to leave and they called me later that day. They offered me the deal I was looking for. I put a down payment on the car and then they called me and said because of some blemishes on my credit they couldn't give me the deal they promised. I said "no thanks" and hung up. They called me back half an hour later with pretty much the deal we had agreed upon. I was not happy with the way they handled everything but I needed to get it done quickly so I bought the car from them. I love my Yaris but I steer everyone who asks away from that dealership.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. Thinking This Had Anything To Do With Toyota Vs Ford Is Ludicrous.

It was simply dealer vs dealer.

What you stated is dealer specific, not brand specific. If you wanted the Ford, you likely could've gone to any other local Ford dealer and had a much better experience.

[Dr.Phool]

32. I drove through S. Carolina last week.

And on my way through the towns to get on I-95, I saw two closed Ford Dealerships (empty) that were open a month ago when I drove through.

I have never owned a foreign car in my life, until I bought my wife a new Prius for Valentines Day. It was a tough negotiation, but it's a rare car, and he only had two on the lot. Nobody else had any.

[Progressive_In_NC]

41. I agree, and I would have bought the FreeStyle in the first place...

I already own a contour and an F-150.

If the guy had been willing to deal, or even be nice. But for a cheaper price we got a car with many more features.

Go figure.

as the last line of my post said...

I never expected to own a Toyota, but after the way I was treated at the Ford place, I am pretty sure that in Raleigh, it's not the Detroit workers or quality but the dealer that's the problem.

[lennytee]

33. no mo' MOPAR...

My first car was a '56 DeSoto - a what?? - my uncle sold me in 1962. Until August I have been a solid MOPAR guy. Cuda, Roadrunner, GTX, Belvedere, Spirit, Breeze, Durango, etc. I've had a bunch of 'em. Several of them were gas-guzzling muscle cars, a couple of them were small and economical, and most of them were very reliable. We went to the local Dodge dealer in July to look at new stuff and got a similar greeting that OP's have received. The wife and I decided to look at Toyota, Honda, or a Nissan. All 3 dealers were unwilling to give us any price break whatsoever. In fact it was sticker price plus! Ended up looking at and buying a KIA Optima - for $6k less than a comparable Camry or Accord. Used factory rebate for down payment, financing took one call to KIA Motor finance, got a good rate and off we went. Talked to the dealer last week siad he'd sold all the '08's and were waiting for more '09's.

[aikoaiko]

34. I would take cars for test drives to other dealers and say, this is the car I want, beat their price

It was fun.

[WA98070]

37. So you bought blind... didn't do any homework. In the future go to Edmunds.com ...

and find out what others are paying and then get internet bids on the car you want. No hassle at the dealership as you already have a maximum price. Test drive the vehicle you want then either lower your offer or pay what you "negotiated" on the internet.

You can get dealers bidding against each other.

If you know what you want and what price is right buying a new car is easy. Remember, they have more cars than buyers.

[Progressive_In_NC]

40. I got 6K under the Edmonds and KBB average for the car I bought...

Plus they paid off my trade. No complaints here, and we'll have this car paid for in 18 months provided the economy holds up.

[Alcibiades]

38. I shopped at the Ford Dealership in Durham

Michael Jordan, couple of years ago, and the fellow was downright insulting. A real old-school slimeball, the sort of fellow you'd see on one of those badger commercials. I went up the street and bought a Saturn from Saturn of Chapel Hill-Durham instead.

[Old Codger]

43. Had a similar experience

With a GM dealer, I thought maybe since they were hurting so bad that maybe they were ready to deal, went in and attempted to get a deal on trading my 05 1/2 ton Silverado on a new 4 wheel, first they did was refuse to budge on price, then they low balled my trade in so that they were trying to get full price for the one I wanted and give me chump change for mine.. This was about 6 weeks ago, the truck I looked at is still there.. I decided to make this one last a while longer...