Does anyone else believe the Bush depression is by design?

[bobd0]

This miserable failure is creating a situation that will take years if not decades to recover from. There are very few workable solutions due directly to Bush economics policies.

Sort of like extending his administration indefinitely.

And the same propagandist partisan right wing fools that got us into this mess are already trying to deflect blame from Bush to Obama.

The Bush administration doesn't merely get the title of worst administration in history, they're the most greedy, evil bunch of class warfare waging scum that every inhabited Washington DC.

Just had to get this off my chest.

Happy Thanksgiving to all. I hope we can get through this with something left to be thankful for.

[oldtime dfl_er]

1. I believe a version of that

I think the Repukes knew early this year that they were going to lose control of the government, and created a situation where they and their cronies could go for one last enormous grab of wealth before being shown the door.

[ben_meyers]

13. I think they knew much sooner than earlier this year

That's why they distracted Clinton with that Lewinsky bs, so they could get theFinancial Services Modernization Act of 1999 and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000(also known as the Enron Loophole) slipped through congress and signed by him. Had he read and understood what those two pieces of legislation really meant he could have vetoed them and we would have avoided most of todays problems.

[Turbineguy]

2. I don't think it's by design

it's by incompetence mated to ideology.

[Adsos Letter]

5. That explains it best, imho...

[Blue Meany]

30. They are way too incompetent of pull this off by design...

Rather, I think it just a side effect of the main goal for Republican politicians: using their power to enrich themselves and their cronies. It's not that they are trying to ruin the economy, it's just that they are willing to allow it to happen in order to achieve their first goal.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Another case of prez shit-for-brains' LIHOP

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. Or MIHOP.

[gratuitous]

4. Whether it's by design or not

And I think there has been some conscious work to bring it about, whether there has been conscious design or not, it's pretty obvious that it will be used as a cover to empty the Treasury of whatever's left after two elective wars of empire were launched.

[MindPilot]

6. Nope. Bush can't eat a pretzel and get it right let alone pull off some conspiracy

This is the end result of the flawed execution of bad policies poorly managed. What most of us would call incompetence.

[BOSSHOG]

11. 8 years of incompetence cheered on by those with values

[bobd0]

15. Or else that pretzel was a message to a rube who got a little too "high" on the power trip

and had to be reminded who was boss.

[chromotone]

56. I've always thought that, too

Pretzel, my ass. Bush was slapped around by his handlers, the real power in this country.

I think it would make for a good study/research project to see what Bush was saying and/or doing prior to the incident to make it necessary to slap him around; in essence to "get him in line."

[backscatter712]

31. Funny thing about having an assclown in the top seat...

The reason we're seeing this is by design. Bush was put in the White House as the front man. The real action was Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Henry Paulson, Alberto Gonzales, Karl Rove, etc. etc. etc. The front man provides cover, while the Cabinet is filled with the real powerbrokers, and they have enough room to pull endless mischief.

It's pretty much the same anti-pattern we saw in the 20's with Harding and Hoover - clueless assclowns as frontmen, while the real powerbrokers hid in the shadows and mugged the American people.

[LSparkle]

7. "Shock Doctrine" applied to the economy ...

I think this has been their plan all along. Keep us scared and
in chaos so they can steal. And I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with your
assessment that they've been WAGING CLASS WARFARE on us. I can
only pray that we FINALLY have a champion in the WH who's willing
to fight back on OUR behalf.

[BelgianMadCow]

32. The Shock Doctrine often has a manufactured economic crisis as a precursor

otherwise, other crises are manufactured OR exploited.

[DJ13]

8. By design

The neocon agenda was always to create so much government debt it would be forced to default.

They want to recreate the US into a true fascist government owned by their corporate sponsors.

[Hekate]

9. Hmmmm. MIHOP or LIHOP, the perennial question about everything touched by Baby Caligula...

Shelves of books have been are are being written about the Bush maladministration and the various ideologies applicable to their disasters at home and abroad. The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule is one. Another is The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism.

After about a year of being shocked and awed by the horror show that is the Bush administration, I started asking "who does it serve?" and found that what I thought was a rhetorical question actually led to real answers.

Hekate

[bobd0]

12. Yep. Sort of like "follow the money". nt

[blm]

79. The money WAS followed during BCCI - the SAME characters with the same global fascist agenda

and it took a few powerful democrats to allow them the room to continue throughout the 90s when they should've been FULLY exposed and jailed.

[bobd0]

10. Call me a conspiracy freak but I believe the powers that be who are ultimately benefeting from

Bush's "incompetence" knew just what they were doing when they stole Election 2000. They found the perfect foil for their plans in the incompetent, lazy, anti-intellectual Bush, and they knew they had Mr. Cheney, among others, in close proximity if and/or when needed. Sure, incompetence played the biggest role but, IMO, it was intentional -- sort of like built-in obsolescence -- with the added security of the Bush name and history.

These bastards will do anything for a stinking dollar up to and including ruining the entire nation. Or planet for that matter.

It's as if they have somewhere else to go to and they aren't telling anyone. At least not us. The ultimate victims of their actions.

[judasdisney]

73. The Bush Era is just beginning. We ain't seen nothing yet.

Cheney Sleeper Cells http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1118-23.htm

Economic Collapse By Design http://ftrsupplemental.blogspot.com/2008/08/bringing-down-bear-stearns.html

April 4, 2015 Capitol Bldg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZcLbaKBQ1o

[Better Believe It]

14. No, I Don't Believe That And It's Not Solely A "Bush Depression"

The Democrats share joint responsibility with Republicans for the deregulation of the financial institutions in 1999 and 2000 during Clinton's term.

Are you familiar with that history?

[bobd0]

17. Oh, I'm familiar with history alright.

The history I'm familiar with has things like the first Reagan/Bush depression and banking scandal. And eight years later I remember things like the word "surplus" and the phrase "paying off the national debt". Then another thing I'm familiar with from history happened -- Election 2000 was stolen and all of that just went right up into smoke.

What history are you familiar with?

[Donnachaidh]

21. and NAFTA was put through by WHO?

Sorry, but to be honest the blame is on BOTH sides.

[bobd0]

42. True NAFTA was passed early in Clinton's term but

NAFTA was conceived and negotiated under George HW Bush AND SIGNED by him in December 1992 under fast track rules.

[Better Believe It]

22. I'm Familiar With The Actions Taken By Congress To Deregulate Wall Street

Again, are you familiar with that history which has caused this economic crisis?

Do the years 1999 and 2000 in terms of economic policy set off any alarm bells for you?

[bobd0]

45. The year 2001 set off alarm bells for me when I heard about a massive tax cut proposed by

the new "pResident". A tax cut that would favor the very rich at the expense of the middle class and the economy as a whole. First salvo of the Bush class warfare administration.

Shortly thereafter, 9/11 gave Bush all the reason he needed to start a $10 BILLION per month war among whose many derelict and illegal goals was to share even more taxpayer wealth with certain well connected corporations.

Not to mention Bush's economic policies that were in line with Grover Norquist's idea of shrinking government enough to be able to drown it in the bath tub while handing out government cash to religious organizations in direct conflict with the separation of church and state. And let's not even get into the SECOND bank scandal presided over in as many Bush administrations set in motion by policies like those of Phil Gramm.

I know there is blame to go around but the vast majority of blame for the current economic crisis is directly attributable to George W Bush and the policies of the Republican congress that held power for the first six years of his appointed reign.

[Better Believe It]

50. How much do you think deregulation of the financial markets is responsible?

[bobd0]

51. Very much so. How much of that deregulation are Phil Gramm and George W Bush responsible for? nt

[Better Believe It]

57. Bush not a much as Clinton and Gramm jointly responsible with Senate Dems & Clinton

Clinton signed both deregulation bills.

Would you like to see the hard objective facts regarding this?

[bobd0]

60. Clinton signed NAFTA too but it was conceived and executed by George HW Bush

Same MO here. The vast weight of evidence points to the Bush family and the Republican Party in charge of deregulation, both banking scandals, and two Bush depressions.

Would you like to see the hard objective facts regarding this? Just look out your window or check out the news.

[bobd0]

62. Here's some proof for you from the White House's own page:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/gb41.html

In 1980 Bush campaigned for the Republican nomination for President. He lost, but was chosen as a running mate by Ronald Reagan. As Vice President, Bush had responsibility in several domestic areas, including Federal deregulation and anti-drug programs, and visited scores of foreign countries. In 1988 Bush won the Republican nomination for President and, with Senator Dan Quayle of Indiana as his running mate, he defeated Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis in the general election.

They started in 1980 and the only respite this country has had was the eight years between January 1993 and 2001 and you want to blame Clinton?

What's next? Next year will you be telling me this is the Obama depression and it's mainly the fault of the Democrats?

[TlalocW]

16. I think they weren't expecting the shit to hit the fan so soon

They were hoping for all these problem to happen when the next administration took over.

TlalocW

[bobd0]

18. That very well may be. But, being the conspiracy nut that I am, I think

they set off their economic 9/11 right on time for maximum effect. Two more long months of Bush administration incompetence.

[Better Believe It]

29. Being A Self-Described "conspiracy nut" Doesn't Help Clear And Logical Thought

[bobd0]

48. I'm sorry but with a sentence constructed such as yours

Being A Self-Described "conspiracy nut" Doesn't Help Clear And Logical Thought

I can't discern any logical thought you've offered. :)

Being a conspiracy nut sometimes lead to the only logical conclusions. My general rule of thumb with the Bush family is; suspect the worst then multiply by two and you're probably on the path to the truth.

[Better Believe It]

53. So simple math is the foundation of your political views. That's a new one!

That might cause you to have simplistic ideas!

[bobd0]

67. Or perhaps views unencumbered by all your bullshit. :) nt

[Occulus]

75. I thought economics involved math.

My mistake.

It would be very interesting to calculate the profits realized by companies sympathetic to Bush and the neoconservatives from 2000-today, and associate them on a timeline to real-world events.

Very interesting indeed. Why, we could put the whole 'conspiracy' question right to bed, either way.

[glinda]

19. With out any doubt

it was by design. The purpose of which was to maintain some or as much control by rapidly hoarding money and power anywhere they could while also destabilizing the middle and lower classes. In fact, stealing directly from them. By literally stealing the "peoples" money and by raping the treasury, they make sure that they will have more to campaign with next time around. They hoped to do it this election in order to win but did not succeed. There are in my opinion, some things that can be done, one of which is to demand that money be returned via selling their homes, stocks, etc.... to pay back the middle and lower income people who bear this burden. The other is to dismantle the Religious hand-outs, to dismantle the Chamber of Commerce and other shelters for manipulating outcomes. Another is to attack solving the health-care and drug industry control. Another is to end the war.

[blm]

20. Well, how did the S&L and BCCI thugs get an opportunity to CONTINUE their global fascist agenda

anyway? They were nearly fully exposed, vulnerable and guilty as hell and should have been jailed by the end of 94 and instead the Dems were pushed out of congress and all the drama of those years protected the Bush thugs operating all over the world - setting us up for the fall to that agenda.

[bobd0]

52. They got another Bush "elected".

[blm]

78. They couldn't have gotten another Bush elected for ANYTHING unless a powerful Dem helped them do it.

BushInc couldn't have continued their crimewave in the 90s without the protection of their agenda by the Dem president who generously deep-sixed all the outstanding matters of their many criminal operations.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. yes.

My brother in law said that it was an intentional cycle. Dems pool in all the money with taxes, Republican siphon it out. And, with the government coffers dry, the government doesn't even have the money to pursue recourse from the bastards who lived high on the hog at our expense.

[yellerpup]

24. I don't think it was supposed to crash and burn until after he left office.

But he promised the rich (his self-described base) at the beginning of his first term that if they thought they were rich then, then they would be filthy rich by the time he left office. The insiders still are filthy rich at the expense of everyone else who has/had money in the stock market.

[backscatter712]

25. Yeah, I believe it!

They shat all over the economy to cripple Obama as much as possible - they want him unable to enact his agenda. They want to be able to say "Nope, we can't afford universal health care. Nope, we can't afford to fix the schools or the roads."

The Bushies are all in maximum sabotage mode. It is indeed class warfare, and it's been class warfare for decades. Now that someone's going to the White House that advocates for the middle and working classes, and for the less fortunate, they're trying desperately to cut him off at the knees.

Where's a fucking guillotine when we need one?

[bobd0]

54. They also did it to sabotage an Obama administration so they can make a comeback in 2010 and 2012

IMO, these people have no problem bringing the nation to its knees or putting it flat on its back if they can use those dire conditions to their own advantage in a few years.

Step 1: Fuck up the economy beyond all recognization.

Step 2: Lose and election and use the transition period to further fuck up the economy.

Step 3: Blame the new administration for not fixing the mess you created of eight long years immediately.

Step 4: Use the usual suspects and tactics to brainwash an easily manipulated public.

Step 5: Retake power and repeat.

Check out some of the posts here. Some people have already swallowed and digested enough propaganda to ruin their Thanksgiving dinner.

[Irish Girl]

26. I absolutely believe it was by design, how can every one in power be this incompetent?

As others stated, just follow the money. Bush and his criminal cronies are lieutenants with allegiances to a very corrupt plutocracy and every decision they've made has been for the intent of bringing America to her knees.

edit - I should add, this extends to both parties (Greenspan, Clinton, et al.) Something is seriously wrong here.

[BelgianMadCow]

27. Robbing all of you (and a big part of the rest of us) blind, Shock Doctrine style

it's obvious

[lxlxlxl]

28. Yes yes and yes. I think they declared civil war.

They are spending every last dollar to keep the social heriarchy intact, while creating the preconditions for war in order for the country to get the progressive agenda it needs to survive (healthcare, education, and green jobs).

[dpbrown]

33. It's just another way to drain the treasury for the super-rich

Regular people don't get huge government bailouts when they make bad business decisions.

It's time to let bad businesses fail.

[wildbilln864]

34. absolutely!

"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes the laws." A timely quote by Mayer A. Rothschild.

[JDwho]

35. Happy Thanksgiving to you and all, as well. Even if this debacle

was by design, there are still soooo many things to be thankful for, IMHO. We just need to believe that we, as a country, will get through this. And if we're lucky, some will be convicted for their fraudulent schemes (among other things).

[Irish Girl]

37. Thank you JD, Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

Indeed we have much to be grateful for.

And the American people are a hardy folk (our foreign ancestors braved The New World to give us a bight future). I know we can again pull through and do what needs to be done for a better tomorrow.

[bobd0]

63. Thanks for the positive words, JD

and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours as well.

I'm sure we can all find something to be thankful for. I know I can find several from just the past two months alone.

And, hopefully, we can all find a little of that luck to boot. ;)

[JDwho]

76. Your so welcome. Hey, I worked with the disabled for a decade.

I can tie my shoes, drive a car, and come to logical conclusions (most of the time) on my own. These are true blessings, as is my family. I can't complain, and when I do, it's about the govt. lol. :)

[HamdenRice]

36. No

The billionaires who run Bush behind the scenes did not engineer a situation in which they lose their billions.

[Irish Girl]

38. In what form are their assets?

I'd wager gold mines, food production and land ownership but would be interested in hearing your opinion.

[HamdenRice]

40. The super rich put much of their wealth in hedge funds

and they have suffered huge losses. The bankers' wealth was tied up largely in shares and bonds of their own banks. The uber rich managers of Lehman, Bear Stearns, et al have been largely wiped out.

There have been a number of posts about Times columnist Thomas Friedman's wife's personal fortune being reduced from $3+ billion to $25 million, much of it having been in the family real estate trust.

Most rich people have their money in stocks and bonds, which have plummeted in value, not gold or farmland.

Obviously the uber rich are not suffering the way workers do in this crisis, but they also would not engineer a crisis that wipes out billions of their own wealth.

[bobd0]

55. As with the last Republican depression they will be more than well positioned to recover.

They took a big hit but they wiped out small investors. When the economy recovers they'll be the only game in town.

Control. They'll have the majority of this nation happy to eat out of their hands like little birds by then.

[HamdenRice]

66. Agreed. When your $3 billion is wiped out down to $25 million ...

it may be distressing, but you're hardly hurting.

I just don't think anyone would be part of a plan to wipe out their own $2,975,000,000 in order to try to control the world with $25 million after the wipe out.

This thing is out of control, not a plot.

[Orsino]

39. No. They might bleed the goose, harvest a few of its organs for sale...

...and take out three mortgages on it, but They need those golden eggs.

They didn't intend to deliver fatal blows, but in the absence of intelligent and moral management, their incompetence and greed did us in.

[snot]

41. yup. nt

[ContinentalOp]

43. Of course. Keep wages low and keep the people desparate.

Bankrupt the government until you can drown it in a bathtub.

[nancyr]

44. Well, yeah.

Crap happens, but this is ridiculous.

[rocktots]

46. Yes

It is obviously by design, but what Democrats are speaking out against it? Corporations and Neo-con lobby groups run BOTH parties. We need to split into greens, conservatives etc like Europe, so they can't control the system so well. Obama is not going to change the basics, he (the team)is hiring all the Clinton neo-cons, so not much will change. Did you see Democracy Now on Friday? Pretty sad when a true liberal Amy Goodman has to wack "Obama's" (team's)choices.

[SoCalDem]

47. The republican plan was to steal all the money, so they did succeed

and every republican strives to leave the worst possible mess to their democratic successors, even if they have to start some shit on their way out the door (See Poppy Bush-Somalia)..

Republicans usually wait for a while (until the economy rebounds and there's some more money built up) ..and then their slime machine catapults them back into office, so they can steal all the money again:(

rinse & repeat :(

[bobd0]

65. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!

Lady's and gentlemen, we have a winner.

[Lars39]

49. Yes. They've been bilking people of millions for a long time now:

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:UZXdmP3aKuAJ:www.bushwatch.com/bushwater.htm+Bush+governor+texas+college+pension+funds&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a

[rucky]

58. Yes, yes and HELL YES!

[Festivito]

61. Someone else designed it. Bush is just a tool.

The bad paper will be released whenever they want to discredit Obama.

Health care passes. Oh, look at the dollar tanking! Quick, Obama must be naive, a fool, ...

There is not enough money to bail these bad credit swaps. They can play with us like we are bugs in a jar.

[bobd0]

64. Now those are my kind of conspiracy theories! :)

Only one problem, they aren't conspiracy "theories". They're conspiracy fact.

[madmom]

68. My SO said they will keep going till we're so broke that the world bank and

IMF will offer a bail out but on their terms.

[ProfessorGAC]

69. No

I still refuse to accept that these people were that clever.

They had the power and the hubris to carry forth their simpleminded ideas about how things should work. But, they were wrong about it all and it all collapsed on them. In the meantime, some of the largest benefactors benefited greatly, but more than they expected. I believe it was all by accident.

Yeah, i know the "evil plan" folks will castigate me. But, i am unimpressed by the "deep thinkers" in that arena. They only succeed because they get lucky.

It's always been ambition, and the original backing to stick it out. It's like being a blackjack player with an unlimited bankroll who eventually gets hot.

In this case, they eventually cost all of us hundreds of billions, but i don't believe it was by design.
The Professor

[Art_from_Ark]

74. Wow, so having gas and oil prices skyrocket

and oil companies making record profits, while the top 3 government positions were all held by people closely tied to the oil industry was just coincidence? Was it a coincidence that the number 1 profiter from the Iraq War was/is a company that was receiving government no-bid contracts and had previously been headed by the current Vice-pResident? Was it a coincidence that the phoney-baloney bird flu scare greatly benefited a company that made the "cure", and which had, as one of its major investors, a Mr. Donald Rumsfeld? Was it a coincidence that the "bailout" plan was shoved down our throats without adequate debate, and a major recipient of bailout money so far has been one Goldman Sachs, which, just coincidentally, was the company that was chaired by the same person, a certain Mr. Henry Paulson, who was put in charge of doling out that money?

[ProfessorGAC]

77. You Don't Have To Agree With me

I couldn't care any less. I believe what i believe and nothing's that happened is explained any more by deduction than by blind luck.
GAC

[hay rick]

70. By ignorance. nt

[baldguy]

71. Yes, in part.

They don't think the middle class has a right to exist. Society should be made up of the deciders who own everything & control the govt - the top 10% - and everybody else who doesn't.

So, before the financial "crisis" and auto "crisis" when McCain said that the economy was fundamentally sound and McCain's economic adviser Phil Gramm said that people who were being harmed by Bush's Economy were just a bunch of winers and that THIS was the best economic climate America has ever had - they really really believed it - AND STILL DO.

Their problem is that they just can't sell it any more.

[GReedDiamond]

72. This was no "accident"...

...or the result of bungling BushCo incompetence.

It's a very well thought out and executed massive (the biggest ever) transfer of wealth to the corporate oligarchs. That's my opinion, based on observing the fact that every time there was any kind of disaster or "public policy" enacted over the last eight years, there is a Corporatist or twelve profiting through whatever means it takes, whether it be "no bid contracts"; subsidies (corporate welfare); "prescription drug benefits" which benefit not the patient, but big pharma/insurance companies; "bailouts" (straight theft of Taxpayer's money); etc.

Letting the "Big 3" automakers tank will be another nail in the coffin, due to the massive loss of jobs and the further disintegration of the country's manufacturing base. Plus, as an added bonus to the neocon criminal class, millions of unionized workers will be s.o.l., along with the unions themselves.

In an only half-perfect world, the incoming Obama Administration would commence non-stop criminal investigations/prosecutions of Wall Street crooks and ponzi scheme con men, war profiteers, BushCo administration officials, crooked politicians (Repug and Democratic), etc etc, until such time that all those shiny new Halliburton detention camps are packed full of these vicious fiends! (As Steven Tyler once shrieked: "Dream On!")

And, oh yeah, have a nice "Thanksgiving" everybody!

(edited to change "an Corporatist..." to "a Corporatist...")

[leftofthedial]

80. 100% MIHOP

[Dubiosus]

81. and the funniest thing of all is that

this time they distract with pirates. Somali pirates.....

If this isn't irony than what is? :eyes:

Hey admins, why isn't this thread in the so called "dungeon"?

Isn't that the place for "truthers"?

:spank:

That spanking is for making TRUTH part of an insult!

:*

[Greyhound]

82. The 60s - early 70s scared the shit out of the parasites, and they did something about it.

Their power base was threatened and they had/have control of what we need.

It's not a vast conspiracy so much as a confluence of similar goals, the natural flow of the only real issue, the parasites vs. the people.

[MH1]

83. The possibility has occurred to me.

I haven't decided if I think it's true yet, though.

I have long thought that although Bush's own apparent incompetence may not be faked, the "incompetence" of his entire administration has generally just been cover for various manipulations and looting of the Treasury.

[silverweb]

84. Absolutely.

Planned and executed.

[Ganja Ninja]

85. Why else would he be sitting around doing nothing about it?

[harun]

86. Yes, and we are as dug in to Iraq as we are on purpose as well.

[gravity]

87. The republicans don't want the economy to collpase

They are just incompetent fools who subscribe to a false economic ideology.

[zonmoy]

88. Yeah they designed it by having their corporate buddies loot everything that they could take.

Problem is that they handed it over to a party that is beholden and probably run by many of the same corporate crooks that caused the problem in the first place.

[RoyGBiv]

89. Happy Thanksgiving

[spanone]

90. katrina economy....i believe they have lied about the economy for the last 8 years