The top ten most fuel efficient cars in the UK do over 60 MPG (the top three over 70 MPG) US=28 MPG

[Turborama]

The top ten most fuel efficient cars in the UK do over 60 MPG (the top three over 70 MPG). I know that's Imperial Gallons but the number one most fuel efficient (non-hybrid) car in Britain does 74.2 MP Imperial Gallon (slightly under 62 MP US Gallon). These are diesel cars, but the new generation biofuels would take any worries less informed consumers - who still think diesel is dirty - may have about that...

...the most fuel efficient American made car is the Ford Focus, which ties for the No. 1 spot with the Chevrolet Aveo and Pontiac Vibe, which can do 28 miles per US gallon. When you consider the cars mentioned above, the technology is out there to make cars that can do 74 miles per Imperial gallon, something's gotta CHANGE here!

Most Fuel-Efficient American Cars
http://www.forbes.com/2008/08/29/american-fuel-efficient-forbeslife-cx_jm_0829cars.html

Top 10 most economical cars in the UK
http://cars.uk.msn.com/greenmotoring/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1379476

[NJmaverick]

1. The real question is are the tests the same

I don't think they are (based on the different names for the two numbers). If they don't perform the same test to determine the numbers, they are meaningless.

[DemoRabbit]

5. VM is putting out a clean diesel car in the US - more than 50MPG

So even if the tests are different, the UK STILL makes much more fuel efficient cars. My boss, a brit, has been laughing (and crying, since he lives here in the US now) about this for years.

[flvegan]

2. 10-1 odds the UK cars are all or close to all diesel.

Something we just can't seem to embrace here.

[scrinmaster]

3. All of those UK cars are diesel.

Remind me why we can't get many diesel powered cars in the US.

[Kolesar]

6. Diesels were not even allowed to be sold in California, NYC &other metropolitan areas

due to air pollution/smog requirements. The automakers pulled out of diesel almost entirely.

Of late, diesel has lower sulphur, so the automakers *may* reintroduce diesel models.

Did you know that diesel fuel takes more petroleum to produce per gallon?

[JBear]

14. The EU diesel regs meet CARB requirements, not EPA as of MY2008...

This is one of the weirdest parts of this whole thing. There are so many different emissions regs that car companies have to meet it is hard to keep track.

Pre-MY2008, the diesel emissions standards in the US were slightly stricter than their counterparts in the EU (mainly due to different test methods), but still did not meet CARB standards. As there were at least 5 states that adopted CARB standards, even VW could not sell their TDI in those states. All this changed in MY2008. The diesel regs got tougher and now both the EU and EPA standards would qualify under CARB. The problem is that the EU and EPA regs still are not the same! The pollutants coming out of a diesel engine are now 99% lower than they were in the 80s when we had those horrid Olds diesels, but we can not seem to get our test methods to line up with the rest of the world.

Amazing to me...

[ananda]

4. My Honda Civic Hybrid gets 34 to 48 depending.

In the summer in the city with a/c full blast,
the car gets around 34 mpg.

Now it's getting 38 because I use the a/c much less.

On the road, regardless, it always gets well above 40 mpg.

Of course, that's still way too low comparatively.

[TreasonousBastard]

7. OK, when you get all the US safety and other...

standards waived so they can sell them over here unmodified, let us know.

The Smart gets much better mileage over there than here, too, (after allowing for different gallon sizes) and it's not diesel, just lighter and smoggier over there.

Oh, and VW and Mercedes do now sell their diesels here, but not many people are buying.

[elfin]

8. Delete - dupe

[elfin]

9. The USA safety requirements ala crash tests need

to be factored in as well. But we can do it - "yes, we can!"

After all GM was not called the "arsenal of democracy" for no reason - they re-tooled quickly and dramatically to meet the needs of WWII - they have the smarts and depth of worker experience to do it again -- as long as management succumbs to reality. And they MAY just do that, given the pressure of the current climate.

[enlightenment]

10. I read something interesting about crash tests

the other day - can't remember the link *sorry - I think it was on MSNBC, but I can't find it . . . darn it . . .*

The article said that in the US, when they do the bumper crash tests, they're testing the bumper to see how well it withstands damage. In Europe, they test the bumper to see how much damage it would do to a pedestrian.

I think, if I had the choice, I'd rather have a bumper that did less damage to a person, even if it meant more damage to my bumper.

The article also said that in the US they have to test airbags and other safety devices with the idea that there WILL be unrestrained passengers in the vehicle - in Europe, the presumption is that all the passengers in the vehicle are wearing restraints.

[Turborama]

11. Interesting points... It's actually a bit of a catch 22 when you consider that the tests.

... have the huge gas guzzlers with all that extra weight to take into consideration.

Shame about the link, I'll try and find it too...

[enlightenment]

12. Found it!

Had to remember what I had typed into Google . . .

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26444467/

[Turborama]

15. Thanks a lot for that. Now we have the power, surely Obama can push this?

It seems Ford are trying to get the cars over after all. I'm going to have to put this in the Ford thread, thanks again...

[JBear]

13. So here is an idea for bailing out the auto industry...

The biggest reason that the auto industry doesn't sell diesel cars in the US is that certifying them for emissions is costly. There are lots of nuances about getting a car certified for sale in the US. Mercedes has even passed on bringing us the diesel Smart when they already sell it in Canada. Contrast that with VW who's US sales were propped up solely by the TDI lineup they had from 2000-2006.

MY2008 has brought us to the next level of diesel emissions. The US rules are even tougher than the EU rules. They require expensive emissions control devices that make the gas engine catalytic converter seem down right cheap.

A lot for a car company to swallow on a "niche" market right?? WRONG!

These cars already exist in Europe as noted above. The current EU emissions standards are still cleaner than the MY2005 EPA standard. They are simply measured in different ways. The simple answer is - change our emissions regs to allow an EU certified vehicle to be certified in the US.

Some of the savings to the car companies while adding a really cool line up of efficient vehicles to the US:

1) One emissions test, not two.
2) Harmonized standards - they don't have to figure out how to meet two different test criteria with one system
3) Allow EU road homologation to suffice for EU model cars brought to the US - No redesign necessary! OK, the down side is that they probably would start building these cars in Europe and importing them (yes, GM=Opel and Vauxhaul, Ford=Ford and Chrysler=Chrysler in the EU). The up side is that this gives them the cash to retool here at home to make them here too.
4) Expanded market - helps bring the cost down on the model specific parts

The naysayers all tell me that Americans don't want diesel cars. They remember the Oldsmobile Diesel and the Diesel Rabbit. I drive a diesel VW and can tell you first hand that this is a fine car to drive. Plenty of power (lots of torque!!) and great mileage. Don't believe me? Go down to your VW dealer and drive their demo TDI jetta. You will be surprised!!

Remember that if the AVERAGE fuel economy of cars driven in the US was up at 40 MPG (achievable with some of these cars in the mix), we would not need to import oil to drive our cars!!! Pretty incredible considering I drive a car that gets 44 MPG on the highway!

Just saying!

:bounce:

[Turborama]

16. EXCELLENT!

Very good arguments, the only thing is the safety tests mentioned in the post above, which could be ironed out by Obama's team quite quickly, if they put their minds to it, surely?

Would you mind posting your brilliant ideas on this thread, as it has loads of reads and quite a few recs...?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4509092&mesg_id=4509092

[Initech]

17. Is that US-made cars only?

My Nissan gets 33MPG on average - way better than the Focus or Aveo. And the Aveo is actually just a re-baged Daewoo.

[Turborama]

18. Yeah, I was showing how far behind the US made cars are in efficiency.

Of course, there are more fuel efficient cars on sale. Maybe their reluctance to be more efficient has more to do with who they play golf with than anything else...? :thumbsdown: