Hillary as SOS would be a good thing.

[Soylent Brice]

ready the firing squad...

as SOS it would be taboo for her to run in 2012. she'd be running against her boss. Obama's decision to have her as SOS appears to be a lot more calculated than others would initially think.

i think she'll fall in line with what he wants to do. she won't have a choice. there shouldn't be any head butting because the media will also be ready to scrutinize any perceived indifference she may have with Obama.

her experience in the 90's as first lady, along with international respect for Bill, will also allow us to repair a lot of international relationships fairly quickly as well, i think.

ready, aim, FIRE!!!

lol

[LostinVA]

1. I doubt very much Hillary was planning to run in 2012

She isn't Ted Kennedy.

[Oregone]

4. Thats right. She is definately no Ted Kennedy...

to her detriment.

[defendandprotect]

2. HRC is DLC and that's a bad thing --

[Soylent Brice]

6. this is where i'm torn

i'm not exactly a huge fan of Hillary, but i don't hate her either. i think being shunned for the universal HC deal in the early 90's kind of taught her a hard lesson about the powers that be. that they suck. i think she's just adapted accordingly. is it wrong? not the right question to ask. it just is what it is.

[defendandprotect]

24. HRC did more than "adapt"...she's DLC leadership ....

I don't "hate" HRC either -- I hate corruption which so harms all of humanity --

I'd like to see that suffering end from cluster bombs to lack of health care for all --

and I simply think HRC also sold out one of our best

opportunities for Single Payer Health -- 1993 after the strong campaign

by Sen ... what was his name? -- began with a W, I think --

[mdmc]

7. the next 8 years are gonna be hard

liberals are gonna have a sharp learning curve ahead of them.

We all love Obama like his policies equaled Kucinich. They don't. They do equal the DLC.

[Individualist]

14. Ditto!

[cobalt1999]

3. It is a good thing.

Ignore the haters.

She is smart, well liked, personable, knowledgeable, and will have instant credibility with world leaders. Great choice.

[Profprileasn]

8. Like her too.

I think she'll do a good job.

[mike_c]

5. many disagree-- HRC enthusiastically shared responsibility...

...for one of the worst foreign policy disasters in American history. The blood of hundreds of thousands is on her hands. I guess that's what passes for qualifications for SoS in this country these days.

[Soylent Brice]

9. a lot of dems voted for that

Kerry did. did you vote for Kerry for prez?

i did. does that make me an enabler of the deaths of 100's of 1000's?

[mike_c]

10. no I did not vote for Kerry-- primarily for that reason...

...and yes, I think the folks who did enabled the murder of hundreds of thousands. AUTHORIZING crimes against humanity is just as bad as any other aspect of doing the deed.

We're ALL culpable to one degree or another unless we did something to stop it. Let's at least be honest with ourselves about that.

[Soylent Brice]

12. first thing

i want to make sure you understand that i don't want this to be an argument rather than a debate. there is nothing personal meant by any of my comments.

secondly. i voted for Kerry, and I'm not ashamed of that. i was not going to vote for chimpy, or 3rd party.

my other option would be to not vote, and there's no fucking way i'm that big of a baby, that i would dishonor all those before me that fought for the rights of all to vote, by sitting on my hands.

we can agree to disagree on Kerry. i need to reiterate that i am in no way a huge fan of Hillary's either. but it appears that this move to have her as SOS is deeper than it first appears. there are clearly motives behind this move. otherwise it would just be blatant stupidity.

yes, we're all guilty of blame for the war in one way or another. BUT that doesn't mean we need a mob mentality or self loathing. we fix it. we learn from our mistakes, and move on. we do the best we can to prevent it from happening again.

[politicasista]

15. Gee. Kerry isn't in Obama's administration and people here still hate on him

Not you, but other people in this thread.

[Soylent Brice]

16. weird indeed...

[politicasista]

17. It is. Kerry was one of the leading people behind the Kerry/Feingold

amendment to get out of Iraq. Which Hil, Obama, and the party came around to at the end. He called for withdrawal in 2005.

I am sick of people blaming Kerry and not Bush for this war. The man isn't liberal or progressive enough for some and it is unfortunate that he gets a lot of hate here at DU. He isn't president. He isn't in Obama's cabinet.

Doesn't matter, no matter what anyone does, it's not good enough for plenty.

It's been 4 years later, and me is just sick of the bashing of people that are on are side.

[mike_c]

19. I had no intention of "bashing Kerry..."

The DUer asked for my opinion, and I explained my position-- civilly.

I'd much prefer to leave John Kerry out of this altogether. I can't imagine what good talking about him serves in this discussion.

[Soylent Brice]

20. it was my fault for bringing up Kerry

but i see both of your points. he isn't nearly as liberal as i would like, but that doesn't mean he would have done as horribly as Bush.

i totally agree about not bashing those on our side unless they justly deserve it. Kerry's not a bad guy. he fucked up when the cards were down, and he voted poorly.

and we can leave him out of the convo on that note.

[politicasista]

22. And he is making up for that

No politician is perfect. I am sure all of them have had votes that they cast and later regretted. I am just tired of people always singling out Kerry for doing something wrong, or not doing, or not being liberal or progressive enough. There is NO lawmaker alive that uncovered more government corruption or stood up to GOP mess than Kerry.

I joined after the 2004 election and there was just non-stop bashing.

People should be happy. They voted against Bush, but didn't like Kerry. Kerry didn't win and now that the country is worse than 4 years ago, Obama is (or will be) in the WH. Everyone should be happy now.

I am sure Obama regrets FISA, but I don't see any resentment 6 years after the vote like with IWR. I wished people would have voted against it, but I will not use it as some self righteous progressive liberal test and let Bush off the hook.

We should be dumping on the Republicans rather than dumping on our own.

[Soylent Brice]

23. i would love to join you

in taking a giant dump on republicans.

well said about Kerry.

[mike_c]

18. oh I agree....

My point about HRC is similar to the point many here have made about the financial bailout and the (potential) auto industry bailout-- that one essential component of moving forward effectively is to NOT concentrate further authority into the hands of the very folks who caused the disasters in the first place. Those whose demonstrated bad judgment helped get us into this situation should not be the ones we turn to to get us out. At least not if there are other, better alternatives available-- and "better" implicitly means someone who didn't participate in creating the foreign policy problems we have to find a tortuous way out of now.

No offense taken, BTW. :hi:

[Soylent Brice]

21. awesome.

i don't think that she's going to get us into any deeper of a hole than any other candidate for SOS would. we're already 6 feet under with diplomatic relationships as it is. can't do any worse at this point, in my opinion.

[Soylent Brice]

13. DUPE

edit: dupe

[Ilsa]

11. It's done. nt