Handing my boss money does not automatically put money in my pocket

[riqster]

In fact, it's pretty damned likely that he'll blow the cash on whatever bimbette he's been banging since his wife finally kicked the old skirt-chaser out of the house.

On the other hand, if you give my boss funding that can only be used for restructuring and improving productivity and tie it to a comp package for the workers, yeah, I might see of that.

Me and my boss do NOT have a joint checking account. No more do autoworkers.

After Congress handed a bunch of dough to the financial industry with insufficient conditions on its use, and saw the Wall Street tycoons use it for bonuses and vacations, they damned well OUGHT to be skeptical of a crew of Detroit fat cats who fly up in G4s, pleading poverty. The workers are hurting, but the CEOs are still flying high. Until they get their houses in order, let 'em sell their fancy jets to raise some cash.

[JDPriestly]

1. How right you are K&R.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

2. Word. K&R

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. Damn straight. nt

[Gregorian]

4. A hungry boss is a good boss.

What we need are intelligent, organized, aware, competitive, caring "bosses".

I fear that what I'm thinking may be construed as trickle down republican retreads. But, I don;t care how much we throw at the companies, if they don't produce results (a phrase one of my Chinese design professors smacked me down with once upon a time), then the workers will suffer. As in, what we're going through right now.

What we need are companies that are run by bright, FLEXIBLE, intelligent engineers. This is about engineering. Business follows engineering. I am sorry to say that, because business is important. But I don't care how many cpa's, mba's are involved, if it's a crap product.

We're way behind the other world markets. The only way we're going to catch up is by doing it. It's not about money. It's about brains. The fatter the boss is, the less likely they are to put their nose to the grinding wheel.

Is this incorrect? I don't like spouting untruths. But as an engineer, it's the product.

When my old dad was working at Applied Materials (they make the machines that make the integrated circuit chips) back in the 70's, a group of high level Chinese engineers came to them to have special chips produced for electric car controls. The seventies!

Now I'll admit that the electric car is nothing without batteries. So there is blame to go around.

This is the time when we get smart, and when we start treating employees like the crucial asset to the company that they are.

[riqster]

5. "Never buy anything from a fat salesman", my grandma used to say

..."he obviously has more than enough money, he could charge a little less".

I'd say that applies to CEOs: too often, their compensation is NOT dependent on company performance. OTOH, if the company I work for loses money, we worker bees don't get raises, and our bennies get cut.

Until Workers and Bosses play by the same rules, there will never be any true cooperation up and down the ladder.

[Gregorian]

11. Thanks. I missed a facet of the relationship.

We're getting there. A more caring society is coming.

The discussion of the automobile is a big one. At least for me. It is a metaphor. We're fat assholes. That's been angering me for decades. Ride a bike, and try to not hate Americans. It's not easy. But I digress. I'm supposed to be forgiving and kind. I fail quite a lot of the time.

We are in this together, whether we want to admit it or not.

[riqster]

12. True enough, and I fail a lot too

Humans, whaddaya gonna do?

[nichomachus]

6. The argument for higher taxes

Someone made the argument recently -- more eloquently than I can -- that higher taxes actually help the economy.

Here's how. If a business is faced with high taxes, then it has an incentive to invest extra revenue it gets in order to keep it away from the tax collector. If the business invests the money in the business, it isn't taxed. This creates new jobs, new industry, etc.

However, if the taxes are low, then there is an incentive for the business owner to stuff the money in the bank or pay the low taxes (or no taxes at all) and invest the money in some risky security. When there are no or low taxes, business owners do not historically invest extra revenue back into the business. Claiming that the do is the lie we've all bought into.

[riqster]

7. Hey, nicho, long time no see!

And, as often is the case, you point out an aspect I had not considered. Thanks!

[HughBeaumont]

22. Yep. It's a Giant Lie that Repukes have been foisting on the useful idiots for 28 years now.

A mega . . . MEGA-lie

[hamsterjill]

8. Great Illustration

MY boss doesn't understand all of the huff about the three CEO's of the auto giants flying their jets to the Congressional meetings. He can't understand why anyone would be upset.

I'm supposed to simply be "okay" with the fact that these gentleman have such a cushy lifestyle while normal, ordinary, hard working Americans all around me are homeless, starving and worrying about paying their bills.

Go figure!!!

[riqster]

9. It's because of a sense of 'entitlement' on the part of the Plutocracy

...history does not treat such people kindly. And no matter now many times these latter-day Antoinettes, (Bourbons, Romanovs, call them what you like) get thrown down from their lofty perches, more fools clamber up to take their places.

[robinlynne]

10. Thank-you.

[guitar man]

13. K&R

Spot on! Sans some sort of REQUIREMENT to do the right thing, your bosses nor mine never will.

[riqster]

14. Human Nature is what it is

Analogy: "Locks only keep honest people honest": maybe so, but that's still a whole helluva lot of people being honest as a result of locks.

[guitar man]

15. exactly

I don't blame the greedy pigs for being what they are as much as I blame the sheer stupidity of the American public at large for repeatedly allowing them to sack the modest wealth of the working class by voting the Reagonomics crowd into office over and over again fro the last 28 years.

[riqster]

16. Yep, there's a lot of people out there who love them some snake oil

...no matter how many times it tastes like crap and makes them sick, they line up for more.

"No one ever went broke by overestimating the stupidity of the American Public" (H.L. Mencken)

[guitar man]

17. lol

spot on, I love Mencken. :thumbsup:

[riqster]

18. OH, and by the way...

Our company beat revenue projections again, by 6% this year! The boss is getting a bonus from the generous and appreciative board.


No word on raises for we workers. :grr:

[Joe Fields]

19. you'd cut your own nose off, to spite your face, wouldn't you?

Jesus Christ, I can't believe what I'm hearing.

[riqster]

20. Not hardly.

I am looking at the situation from a holistic point of view, and addressing a key weakness in the bailout request as originally submitted to Congress, and rightly rejected.

Why so many people have suddenly adopted the notion that the Big Three, who have been trying to destroy the unions for decades, have suddenly turned into the saviors of organized labor, is quite beyond me. These leopards not only have not changed their spots, they haven't even pretended to.

We MUST protect the workers in any bailout package that goes through, or we will do even more damage. And we cannot count on the union-busting, champagne-swilling, gollygee-I-am-entitled-to-my-private-jet executives to put the workers first. Or, frankly to care about them at all.

[BzaDem]

21. Really bad analogy. GM is has contractual obligations to take care of its workers.

The only way they could get out of these contracts is if they go bankrupt.

[riqster]

23. Some of the Big 3 bailout proposals involve abrogating those obligations

...which could make the analogy less precise, but make the point behind it even stronger.

[Romulox]

24. ALL non-bailout proposals involve abrogating those obligations.

Under either Chapter 7 or Chapter 11 bankruptcy. You are setting up a false dichotomy.

[riqster]

25. Ah, the bankruptcy bogey-man

"Hurry, hurry, throw some money at the Big Three, lest they go bankrupt!" I don't think so.

I stand by my original point: We must insist on transparency and accountability, and protect the workers, in any Big 3 bailout. If it takes another few weeks, OK. And we CANNOT count on those who have consistently shown antipathy towards their workers in the past to suddenly protect them now.

We didn't stipulate that way when we bailed out Citi, and they just de-jobbed thousands of Americans, while setting up a new call center in the Phillipines.Your tax dollars at work: enriching fat cats, taking away American jobs, sending those jobs overseas and exploiting people in foreign countries.

Nope. Slow down, do it right, and do right by the workers.