Have you noticed a trend toward self-destruction lately?

[chromotone]

Got a call from a member of the family last week. She was in tears as she told me about what her husband of 42 years was doing. It sounded like he's just given up. He was once a hard worker, working six days a week at his place of business. They had a nice house and two kids. They sold their house last year when he retired and moved to a state where their retirement would go further. But suddenly it's as if he's self-destructing. He lays in bed all day and drinks heavily. He has even gone so far as to engage in abuse: verbally and physically. He's like a different person altogether!

Now I will say they had a 28-year-old daughter die eight years ago, and it was discovered by his wife last year that he had an affair in 1978 which resulted in another daughter that no one knew about, and he's been in and out of jail a couple of times to do violent acts, so these could be contributing factors to his current behavior, but I still wonder if there is an emerging trend toward self-destructive behavior in middle-age and older folks who might have realized they failed in life and can't cope with that realization and could appear to be hastening death.

Sound familiar?

[slackmaster]

1. No, not really

There is nothing like that going on in my family or with anyone I know.

[babylonsister]

2. "he's been in and out of jail a couple of times to do violent acts"...

sounds like he hasn't changed, just has more time to be a jerk. Maybe with nothing to do he's bored?

My dad takes naps in his older age (his eye sight is failing) but nothing like you've expressed.

[chromotone]

4. It's like he's always depressed now, hence his wanting to lay in bed all day...

It's almost as if he's given up on living.

[Liberal Gramma]

9. depression is a common ailment among the older generation

particularly retired men. He should see his doctor.

[Warpy]

3. First, she needs a JOB

even if it's a McJob, just to get out of that house. She needs to sock a little money of her own away.

Second, she needs to find a therapist. If she can't afford one, then she needs to get her butt to Al Anon meetings. They're for friends and family of alcoholics and those meetings can save her sanity.

Third, if she is in danger, she needs to take steps to get away from him, ideally with one of her children until she can get on her feet financially, into a shelter if that's not possible.

Fourth, she needs to realize there is absolutely nothing she can do about his drinking except make everything worse. Al Anon will help her with that one, too

This is a common pattern after retirement, I'm afraid, as retirees find themselves with a huge amount of time on their hands and lack the purpose a job once gave them. He's decided to numb out and unless he realizes it's not working and it's costing him everything he worked for, it's going to continue. People die from this pattern and there's little the people around them can do to rescue them.

This is a miserable situation and will likely get worse. She can be helped out of it. He has to find the courage to help himself.

[chromotone]

5. They've already undertaken some of the steps you've listed.

1) She did have a job during the last 15 years or so before he retired. But now she's not working (what they got for their house in southern California is what they're using for retirement). But now she is looking for a job, mostly for health care.

2) They have been in Al Anon meetings, but not for a while.

3) I don't know what she's done in this regard but will ask her the next time I speak with her.

4) I think she realizes there's nothing she can do about his drinking. She's hesitant to divorce him due to the community property laws, so I wonder if she's just trying to get by for now.

[Warpy]

8. SHE needs to go to Al Anon meetings

It's not a couples retreat. She's the one who is hurting the most right now.

Either that, or she needs to find a therapist.

[dixiegrrrrl]

13. Warpy is totally on target.

The 2 issues of this thread are becoming confused.
One is post-retirement depression.

The other is alcohol related depression.

Both can lead to death.

Slightly different approach to each issue.

Lying in bed drinking heavily indicates the alcohol has to be addressed first. FIRST.
Is he taking pills for his nerves also?
Any pills?
Any doctor involved who knows what is really going on?
How long and how much had he been drinking before job ended?

Al-Anon is crucial for family.

You can make recommendations, then all you can do is encourage follow-up to them.
Anyone who keeps complaining about other person's drinking behavior but then refuses to
go to Al-Anon or get any other self help, stays stuck in the problem.



Yeah, I have creds in this area: 20 years in addiction field, treating the disease.

[Gwendolyn]

6. I think the old-fashioned label for this behavior is called "mid-life crisis."

Women apparently go through something similar in their thirties but it manifests differently.

Some men have affairs, others wear clothes wayyyy too young for them, or buy a motorcycle. Positive minded people start getting into shape and find new interests. Others self-medicate and sink into despair. Like someone else said, he doesn't seem to have been the most stable person to begin with, and her getting out of the house and into al-anon are probably the best way to deal with it. This syndrome is nothing new though.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. I don't think this is anything new. 'Mid life crisis' has been around a long, long time. People in

middle life often feel that they haven't accomplished what they set out to do in life and become depressed or 'act out' in some way. I think about the goals I had when I left high school almost 45 years ago. Nothing worked out as I planned. However, I've had a good life, have been single for over 35 years, made good money, have what I need, and just hope I can reach retirement and get to Ireland.

[foxfeet]

10. Depression is underdiagnosed in older folks.

He sounds like he has a major depressive disorder plus alcohol abuse. Some men become more prone to violent acting-out when depressed. This is a treatable condition, but getting him to go for treatment may be a problem. If he won't go, she should seek counseling for herself. If he talks of suicide or makes threats to harm her or someone else, she should call the police and ask them to take him to an ER.

[mrcheerful]

11. Disabled people who became disabled in adult hood go through the same behaviors

After they are forced to stop working and collecting disability, doesn't matter the age it happens at, it has to do with being useful, or feeling useful, then feeling useless and the attitude that americans have about work. It's also a blow to ones over inflated ego when they are faced with not being the mover and shaker they believed they were on the job.

My dad beat it by taking a part time job after retiring plus he did things around home to make him feel like he was doing something. The important thing to remember is reguardless of what others think or say, you don't allow that to get to you.

As a disabled person, I have delt with people looking at the disability and not understanding that what was noticeable was just one of the symptoms of my disability, unless your around me every day 24 hours a day you'd only think that I just have a bad limp, so a lot of folks out there decide they know more then the 20 doctors I have seen over my life time and theres nothing stoping me from working except getting rich off the system because I'm to lazy to work. After all they know a blind girl or a guy in a wheelchair that works so all disabled can work.

Retirees face a second problem though, living on a fixed income that allows no unseen changes in prices or bills, when their monthly runs out and bills are mounting often they are swamped at figuring out how to pay things off without any extra income coming in. Before they could work over time and make more then the normal pay check. The stress is unbelieveable, you get X amount of $$$ coming in yet what goes out takes more then what comes in.

So normal human reaction? Alcoholism or drug addiction, At first it starts out as a few beers or hits of whatever, then as the depression sinks in more the more you need to feel good. Caught up in it, the person can't see that whatever they are using is causing more depression. Then you add a nagging partner trying to regulate your intake, who also is living on the same income as you, only she/he has a spending problem, anger starts coming out.

My SO and I go through this every month, it starts the second or third week into the month when your down to your last few dollars, bills start coming in and the bills are higher then the month before, so its the other persons fault, even if she/he had no more control over the matter then you had. 3 things that set me off is hearing SO saying, its on sale, we need it and next month we will have one less bill so we will have that extra money to spend on ourselves.

BS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whatever extra we do end up having goes right out the window on living or because we needed something to keep the car going or the furnice or whatever. Living on a fixed income sucks and can lead to some escape method, if not held in check, which then adds stress and more anger because you have to stop self from getting something self wants.

So I end up not wanting sex, ( great stress releaser and it doesn't cost a thing so no money out the window for entertainment, yeah I know, 2 naked 80 yo's not a pretty sight ), I snap at every little thing SO does, and I found out that drinking and drugging no longer works.

Sorry a bit long but there is no simple answer for the problem, except getting him to see expert help for whatever he is going through.

[codjh9]

12. 'They' failed? Sure, that will describe some, but what about all of these things outside of

ourselves that are failing, that can induce depression? Like losing huge chunks of money you saved over many years? Like losing your job when you were just a year or two short of retirement? And many other similar stories that we're seeing now.