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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 09:55 AM
Original message
Congress Opposes Bush Pardons
Nadler Introduces Resolution Opposing Possible Bush Pardons of His Own Subordinates for Crimes He Authorized
By David Swanson

Here's a resolution, hot off the presses from Jerrold Nadler, Chair of the Constitution Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee: H.RES.1531, "Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the President of the United States should not issue pardons to senior members of his administration during the final 90 days of his term of office," Sponsor: Rep Nadler, Jerrold (introduced 11/20/2008). There will be a petition promoting this resolution, through which you can write to your representative and senators at
http://democrats.com/nadler-pardons

Senator Russ Feingold editorialized against these possible pardons at Salon.com yesterday; please urge him to introduce in the Senate the same resolution that Nadler has in the House.

Never before has a president pardoned himself or his subordinates for crimes he authorized. The idea that the pardon power constitutionally includes such pardons ignores a thousand year tradition in which no man can sit in judgment of himself, and the fact that James Madison and George Mason argued that the reason we needed the impeachment power was that a president might some day try to pardon someone for a crime that he himself was involved in. The problem is not preemptive pardons of people not yet tried and convicted. The problem is not blanket pardons of unnamed masses of people. Both of those types of pardons have been issued in the past and have their appropriate place. The problem is the complete elimination of any semblance of the rule of law by pardoning one's own subordinates for crimes you instructed them to commit.

Yes, of course, there's something absurd about knowing that a president authorized crimes, not impeaching him, not prosecuting him, not proposing any action with any teeth at all, but formally objecting to the idea of him issuing pardons of his own subordinates for crimes he authorized. But this is where we are. State, local, civil, foreign, and international prosecutions are likely ways of holding Bush, Cheney, and gang accountable, and pardons can't interfere with them. Pardons can't interfere with impeachment. But if we allow these pardons, we not only guarantee no federal prosecutions, and not only give Congress an excuse to drop its investigations, but we also establish the precedent that from here on out any president can violate any law and then pardon the crime. This is simply to end the idea of law. We cannot allow that.

We need to work with Congressman Nadler and Senator Feingold to promote awareness of what is wrong with self-pardons. In this way we can prepare the American public for the appropriate response when the pardons come. The appropriate response will be to demand:

1. Immediate impeachment of Bush and Cheney, even if they are out of office.

2. Overturning of the pardons, as Bush's lawyers told him he could do to Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich, which was a far more minor abuse of the pardon power.

3. Legislation banning self-pardons and pardons of crimes authorized by the president.

4. A Constitutional Amendment banning self-pardons and pardons of crimes authorized by the president.

5. Prosecution of Bush, Cheney, and their subordinates for their crimes.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. With or without Bush pardoning himself, he will get away with it all...
Just like all presidents before him. They never got prosecuted, so why should it be any different with Bush, Cheney et cetera? Apparently, presidents and his staff are above the law. To think otherwise is a delusion.
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is an excellent move!
These issues need to remain in the public's memory until the Boy King is finally out of office. It would be best to not pursue anything legally until after January 20th, then blow their asses out of the water. Since Nixon criminal Republican administrations have never been held responsible for their crimes. This disease has to be cured once and for all!
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. Why should we need an amendment?
"Never before has a president pardoned himself or his subordinates for crimes he authorized. The idea that the pardon power constitutionally includes such pardons ignores a thousand year tradition in which no man can sit in judgment of himself, and the fact that James Madison and George Mason argued that the reason we needed the impeachment power was that a president might some day try to pardon someone for a crime that he himself was involved in."

Never before have we had a "leader" that didn't think he had to follow ANY rules of ANY kind while simultaneously checked by a spineless Congress that not only allows but also encourages his behavior. I have no doubt these fine individuals will introduce their resolutions and no doubt Congress will ignore them.

What's interesting is that by bringing these resolutions, Congress is admitting that Bush has committed crimes.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. It doesn't matter... Bush will do it anyway
as if he's ever cared what anyone thinks. Besides, it's either pardon or they all go to jail for a long time. Given that choice, what does anyone realistically think he will do?
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PurgedVoter Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. K&R happy to be #5!
Absolutely right!

Bob
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The Blue Flower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for posting this, David
I'm glad to see that someone has found a way to be proactive on this issue.
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SalviaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R Thanks for posting.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. I have to say thanks
we're going to get our day too, just wait and see. To me our day is seeing bushco headed to The Hague for war crimes
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. Interesting n/t
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. Bush WILL issue blanket pardons. It's a certainty. It WILL indicate knowledge of guilt.
Of this, there can be no reasonable question. The FACT that so many acknowledge the inevitability of the coming pardons is itself admission of the crimes committed In Our Name ... and it is an admission that we're a nation of cowards and criminals for not bringing these people to justice.

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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. He will sign the pardons with a flourish and slam the pen onto the desk in triumph
It's not so much that he doesn't care about the opinions of Congress or the people; he thoroughly enjoys acting in defiance of those opinions.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've been telling the Impeachnophobes for *years* that pardons
would be the result of not impeaching.

Impeach. Indict. Imprison!

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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. how about a ban on presidential pardons altogether....
....or some more concrete ethical guidelines?
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. "concrete ethical guidelines" for politicians?
Now THAT'S funny. Ethical guidelines for politicians drawn up by politicians. They could be laser etched into tablets made of diamond. Wouldn't mean a thing to politicians on EITHER side of the aisle.
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MonteLukast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good for Congressman Nadler
As far as why "impeachment was off the table", I'd give anything to be a fly on the wall in the House these past two years. So I could report back what was REALLY stymieing efforts to hold BushCo accountable.
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. There should be no pardons allowed after an election.
All pardons, if any, should be made before the voters go to the booth. Let the pols lay their cards on the table, let them identify the crooks first, and reap the rewards on election day.

This whole idea of a pardon has gone from being a tool for justice to a hacksaw on democracy. Time to make some changes.

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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. Unless they are willing to impeach him it has no effect.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. Impeachment AFTER they leave office?
Edited on Fri Nov-21-08 04:03 PM by dbaker41
That's a hoot. The sole remedy in impeachment is removal from office, so good luck with that one. Shaky - very shaky - legal ground at best for impeaching AFTER someone has left office.

Overturning or legislating restraints on pardons? Good luck with that one, too, constitutionally speaking.

Bake
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Oh but they can.
Wiki:

"It is possible to impeach someone even after the accused has vacated their office in order to disqualify the person from future office or from certain emoluments of their prior office (such as a pension)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment

His pension and Secret Service detail can be made to disappear. Personally, I'd like that.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
20. Done, David!
Premptive pardons.

Pardons granted to officials who "may" have committed crimes in our government.

Please support Rep. Nadler's House Resolution 1531, which urges a former hard-nosed Texas governor against pardons in his own state to resist the temptation to pardon those in his administration who "may" have committed crimes.

The government is "of, for, & by" the people. The people have spoken loudly in this last election: enough is enough. If evidence is found that laws have been subverted, particularly the Constitution, then it would be necessary to our country's democracy that those who broke the law be held accountable. No excuses.


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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. This is a sure sign that Bush and Cheney's pardons will breeze through Congress.
Call me skeptical, but I've seen enough of this all talk/no walk pattern with this Congress to make this prediction.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. The precedence must not be set!!
Absolutely right, thank you for posting this. I am surprised Nadler is pushing this as he resolutely refused to support any impeachment measures, as I understand it.
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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. I think is very smart politically.
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