Well, you all have a solution for the Auto maker's crisis, here's mine

[DainBramaged]

I've read some absolutely lame excuses for protecting American jobs here, and some really offensive swipes at MY Union and MY company, but I thought I'd give you all a piece of my mind AGAIN, since so few actually pay attention.

ONE: This is a PLOT by the Republicans in the SOUTHERN TEIR who have TRANSPLANT factories in their states to break the UAW once and for all. The big three go belly up, so does the union. One last shining star planted on Bush's fucking forehead so they can talk about him with reverence just like Ronnie Reagan (oooh Ronnie broke the Air Traffic Controllers Union, he was a god).

TWO: GM. Saturn is done competes with Chevy, redundant and just dumb. People figured out the list price thing was a ploy years ago, and making re-badged Chevy's for more money doesn't cut it.

THREE: Buick is done too (except in China where it is a BIG deal) Sorry franchise holders, your customers are on Social Security as it is. We don't need to be making cars for people who already bought their LAST car a decade ago. (Oh, and there are LOTS of 10 and 15 and 20 year old Buick's around, they are just hidden in garages because old people DON'T DRIVE EVERY DAY).

FOUR: GMC, come on, slapping a different badge on a Chevy truck on the assembly line and claiming it's better is hooey, it was just a way to placate Buick and Saturn franchise holder who wanted to sell gas\ guzzling trucks and SUVs because we couldn't sell economical cars.

FIVE: Hummer, get the fuck out of here, just close it down, the owners are on their own. They were stupid enough to buy the hype, let them live with it. Besides, they're all rich Reich wingers, they can afford the losses. All the basic parts are Chevy Silverado part anyway, who are you kidding.

SIX: Pontiac. Guys, either make the G6 a really hot piece or just give up, the new Malibu eats it alive. Make the division a real performance division or shutter it. And the Saturn/Pontiac roadster? It should have been a Chevy anyway, there aren't enough stores in a gazillion mile area to get enough exposure, and the press never got it until the 300HP turbo motor made it a rocket ship. The GTO is DEAD, the G8 is a joke (mega horsepower rear wheel drive? THAT is what Cadillac is for. And BMW and Mercedes Benz. Ya got two years.

SEVEN: reduce the number of stores by 50%. Where I live in a FIFTY mile radius there are 4 Toyota dealers, and 45 Chevy dealers, along with about 50 Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac, Ford and Chrysler dealers.

EIGHT Cadillac: You guys have been dong it right FINNALLY for the past five years or so, keep it up, but get rid of ht bling machines. Leave the Tahoes and Suburbans to the government for the Secret Service and NSA and FBI and Navy and on and on.

NINE: Ford. Guys, ya blew it. People will always need trucks, real working people. But high millage cars that are ATTRACTIVE and good looking, Toyota and Honda eat your lunch. Get to work. Oh and shutter Lincoln Mercury. It's like Saturn, re badged Fords are fooling NO ONE.

Ten: Chrysler. God did you guys fuck up. NO ONE likes your cars and trucks, they bought them because you basically gave them away the past couple of years. Eliminate the truck line (Ford and Chevy blow you guys away)the Hemi engine is just a joke now no one cares except maybe some toothless wonders in the back woods hauling moonshine, and a 6liter Chevy makes more horsepower with minor mods too. Keep the Caravan and Jeep lines, everybody needs a people mover and Jeeps are good for the kids and for getting into the woods. Lose your car lines, no one cares, you make big rear wheel drive gas guzzlers that are as reliable as my butt after a visit to Taco Bell.

ELEVEN: Chevy, my life long love, I almost forgot. We have GREAT things going on. Electrics, hybrids, hydrogen. We need to get rid of the Avalanche (NO ONE needs a Suburban with a pick up bed, NO ONE), keep the Tahoe as the BIGGY 9 passenger capable of towing a house vehicle (we do make a 24 MPG city Hybrid version) toss the Suburban. If you have to have a vehicle that holds five kids, luggage, and the dogs, maybe a used little yellow bus is the answer. The Vette stays, I don't care we need a statement car, no compromise there. We can thin out the trucks. A quater ton/half ton/ full ton line up is great, but lets skip the 2500 half ton and reduce REDUNDANCY. Oh, amd make something with a bunch of horsepower and lots of gas millage that kids can modify and race like the Civics and Accords and maybe the kids will come back and BUY GM products again.

Well folks the other way to save America is slap the same tariffs on the Japanese and German and Korean cars they slap on us, tax their imported parts, prevent the DOMESTIC manufacturers from importing cars from other countries (if it ain't made here, it ain't sold here) and that means Canada and Mexico too. Regarding us workers, the average age of a UAW line worker is FIFTY TWO. Who is going to replace them? Kids want to work at retail or in computers or anything but auto assembly. Why, they don't think the money is good enough.

GIVE US A LIVING WAGE, A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AGAINST OUR FOREIGN COMPETITION and I promise you, we'll build you cars and trucks that will kick the shit out of the competition.

I mean it.

Later.

That's what I would recommend.

[GrantDem]

1. K&R

if it ain't made here, it ain't sold here

[FormerDittoHead]

2. I really like your thinking.

The backbone of these suggestions is that, rather than directly compete against other American cars, forcing them all to share the same marketing pie, coordinate the models and compete against the imports, getting a piece of THAT pie.

Good thinking.

[DainBramaged]

4. Yup, GM=Chevy, Cadillac and maybe Pontiac, Ford is Ford, Chrysler is well, absorbed

I think Chrysler needs to go completely away now that I have had a few minutes to think about it. Let someone buy the vans and Jeeps and shut down the rest. Sure, about 1,000,000 jobs over all will go poof in a year, but when the industry re-emerges, it will be stronger and new green jobs will be waiting for those skilled people, I am sure of that.

[alfredo]

24. Nationalize healthcare. Get the cost off the backs of employers and workers.

I'm using VA and I love it.

[JVS]

23. Where do you get that?

In his point to ford he chastises them for trying to produce cars that compete with foreign makes. He ceded the whole efficient small car market to them.

Basically his whole plan is shut down everything but GM. Have GM make cadillacs, some of the bigger engined chevys, and trucks. Then slap a huge tariff on imports.

[spoony]

33. I read it like this

That he thinks people find Japanese cars more attractive than Ford's in aesthetics when mileage is equal or close. It's debatable I suppose, but I don't think he surrendered the market as the critique was followed by exhorting them to "get to work" to bring slicker models out. Incidentally I think that's what Ford is trying to do by introducing a few Euro models, as it's been said they're planning.

The line for a Mondeo begins behind me :)

[rtassi]

3. Great Rant! and it has the virtue of being right!

[MadMaddie]

5. Everything you have stated is valid

One thing that is missing from the list

Remove the existing CEO's and boards they have direct responsibility for all of the things that you mentioned. They have had 20 years to revolutinize the industry and they did nothing. The companies need innovative leaders and boards.


Outside the Auto Industry....

There are the existing closed factories and other company factories across the country that are empty we can retool those factories to make windmills, dams, products for roads, highways, the electrical grid and other innovative products this would allow the country to put people to work and keeping them in their homes.

We can also bring back important manufactured goods that are vital for the US economy..so we are not dependent on other countries. It's ridiculous that the United States is beholden to other countries....I have never agreed with this philosphy...We should be self sufficient.

[DainBramaged]

6. Getting rid of the CEO's is just a given

And my statement about green jobs takes the closed factories into effect. Actually, I'd like to see someone make small electric delivery trucks. The Post Office would love that (they are using ANTIQUATED crap for mail delivery, expensive to fix) lost of call. If we are going to be truly energy independent in a lifetime, we have to start somewhere.

[sentelle]

43. I agree with you... except.

The CEO's are a symptom of the problem. Which is the corporate culture that says 'profit uber alles'. The culture that says that its ok to not listen to the rank and file, nor to the US people.

As for the rank and file, there is nothing wrong there that a truly innovative product can't fix. they have the ability to change the market in a revolutionary way, if the culture up above allows it.

[DainBramaged]

47. Nardelli being in charge of Chrysler, is he going to use

duct tape to fix their problems????

[erinlough]

7. Great post, the republicans are trying to kill all unions,

we are facing it in the education unions also. What do you think of the idea of combining all of them into one big American Car Company. Pick the best business model, best brands currently, and RD departments. Retool the plants to make fuel efficient cars and aim at conquering the world market. Then give them tax breaks on producing cars completely in the US, parts and all, and give us a tax rebate for buying American Car Company automobiles. Fire the people who got us into this mess and hire new blood with fresh ideas.

[leftofthedial]

8. bingo on the tariffs.

[we can do it]

9. I Like Your Thinking - Do You Think We Could Get a Small w. Manual Tranny?

[DainBramaged]

10. The Cruize in 2010, 142 HP turbo with 6 speed, 45+MPG projected.

and NO batteries!!!!!!!

[alfredo]

25. How much will it cost? I will be looking for a vehicle by then. I want to pay

cash, so I am saving up.

[DainBramaged]

34. I know it will not be expensive (if we survive)

:hi:

[alfredo]

48. Employees should be given a piece of the company. Profit sharing would

be a good incentive.

If all other avenues are blocked, nationalize.

At the least nationalize healthcare and get the cost off the back of business. I'd pay $100 a month in taxes for healthcare. That would be a third of what I am paying for my wife's healthcare insurance.

[DemoTex]

11. But what about Fireball Roberts? Six?

Check Six, always!

[DainBramaged]

12. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

:hi:

NASCAR needs to get rid of the truck and Nationwide series (Busch). They don't draw flies, and the NASCAR West, ARCA, SCCA and other smaller series provide plenty of seat time for the future.

[PM7nj]

13. I agree on almost everything...

Also, don't import a piece of shit Daewoo and try to pass it off as a Chevy.... and then a Pontiac. I also can't believe GM killed the G8. I know it wasn't selling (what is?) but it was really one of the best cars in the entire GM lineup.

[DainBramaged]

14. Like I said if it ain't built here it ain't sellin here

They brought that in to sell as a $9995 34MPG price leader, except they did a SHITTY job of marketing it. for $1000 more you got an automatic and air conditioning. But the dealers HATED it because they made (this is NO LIE, GOSPEL) $35 on a car. So they buried them in the back of the lot. If GM had leased them for like $99 a month no money down, they would have leased hundreds of thousands a year ago. But, the bean counters are stupid, which is why we are in trouble.


G8 isn't dead, in either flavor. The 406HP version is delayed though.

http://www.pontiac.com/g8-2009/

[NV Whino]

15. Well said!

I've said the same thing for years. Too many models. Sports. Family. Working... as in two or three sizes of trucks. Period. All under the main brand. No sub-brands. Allow as many new independent companies as want to compete. They make a good product, they succeed. They don't make a good product they fail. No bailout.

[ColbertWatcher]

16. Wow! k+r, n/t

[AwakeAtLast]

17. I said the exact same thing to my husband about GMC/Chevy trucks

I used to work in the plant that made the tailights, so I have known for 11 years how f'ed up GM is.

I now drive a Toyota.

[grannylib]

18. I don't know anywhere near enough about the vehicles themselves,

but you clearly know what you're talking about there. I do hear you on the number of dealerships; it's ridiculous.
And the problem is NOT union wages; it's that the wages of NON-UNION workers are so fucking sub-standard. If 70% of GDP is driven by consumer spending...the economy is periodically gonna tank if consumers HAVE NO MONEY TO FUCKING SPEND.

Corporate greed is what's destroying the economy. Businesses have shot themselves in the foot for years and are finally bleeding out, by trying to balance the budget on the backs of the workers instead of running their businesses in a more intelligent and sustainable fashion.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

19. The U.S. government should start its own auto company

similar to what the French government did with Regie Renault. A "regie" is a government entity that preserves aspects of private ownership. The government provides starting capital and exercises some degree of control, but the management must make a profit and it operates according to market forces. State Compensation Insurance Fund in California is "regie", a state government-initiated workers' compensation insurance company that competes in the market place with private insurance. It must make a profit to survive and it only has limited state government control. It is THE best run insurance company in California in the field of workers' compensation.

Under a "regie" system involving a brand new auto company, the federal government would provide the initial capitalization and could exercise some control at the outset as to the types of vehicles that are manufactured, particularly as concerns the fuel standards and efficiency, hybridization, and the like.

[csziggy]

20. I disagree about the Suburban - mine have been working trucks

And the 3/4 ton is the size I need to pull my stock trailer - a half ton can't haul the loaded weight and a one ton is over-kill. The Tahoes might be good soccer mom trucks, but they are overloaded with crap I don't need. I need what the Suburban originally was - a practical work truck with a lot of enclosed space on a truck chassis.

I've had two GMC Suburbans and loved them both. The first lasted 17 years and got somewhere between 250,000 and 300,000 miles before it gave up the ghost. The second I bought off lease with 90,000 miles five years ago on it and I expect it will last me another 10-15 years. The only reason I got the first GMC is that the local Chevy dealer was incompetent. The second GMC was the only Suburban I could find without rear seat DVDs and other crap I don't need.

I haul feed, furniture, tools, farm supplies and other things that need to stay out of the weather in my truck. A van could not handle the roads I take or the heavy duty hauling I do. I tried pickups but need the enclosed conditioned space for some of the stuff I haul.

[DainBramaged]

29. You can't buy a Suburban as a work truck anymore

and to get a dealer to order a 2500 version is blasphemy. It's a $55,000 LTZ with folding side boards, navigation, second row bucket seats or it's nothing.

But get one on a trade in, tear out the interior and it's the best damn cargo truck out there, even with Little Nemo playing to the chickens. :hi:

I see ignored people, too bad, so sad.

:rofl:

[csziggy]

54. Yep - that is why my current one was bought off lease

But it took me a month of searching to find it on the internet. It still has more features than I would have ordered if I could have gotten a new vehicle, but it is a good solid truck.

I'm hoping by the time I have to replace it - if I get a truck then - I will be able to get some alternative fuel/power version that will not have so many bells and whistles.

I equate what American manufacturers have done with trucks & Suburbans to what Microsoft has done to software. Most people do not need an office suite to handle video and do a hat & cane routine as well. They just need a basic word processing program with a decent spell checker, maybe a spreadsheet or basic data base program. They don't need bloatware that needs constant upgrades, supervision with a dancing puppy to explain all the extra crap that is littered throughout your system.

All this extra crap on what should be a good work truck uses extra fuel, makes it cost more than it should and is a waste of money and resources. The one extra I do like is the temp/compass on the rear view mirror - that is nice. But not the rest of the dreck.

[JVS]

21. Gee. It sounds like someone wants GM to have a monopoly. What a surprise.

:eyes:

[RB TexLa]

22. I do hope s/he gets paid in cash and not GM stock for posting this garbage

[JVS]

46. Off topic

I ran looked up this when I was reading about Malcolm X on another thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znQe9nUKzvQ

[progressoid]

26. So, what the starting wage for a lineworker?

[amandabeech]

27. Please correct me anyone if I'm wrong,

but new workers now or very soon under the 2007 contract will be making in the $14 per hour range to start. They'll get health care from GM while working, which is the responsible thing to do and should be mandatory for all cos until we go universal. Also, they get a defined contribution pension plan, which is like a group 401(k). The Big 3 will each make payments into the plan's trust, but benefits will be based on how much is around at retirement, not whatever the company promised would be there. I don't know if there's a regular 401(k), too. Defined contribution is a HUGE savings over defined benefit.

Current workers pretty much get a freeze on wages. At least some will convert to defined contribution and they'll get the VEBA union trust health benefits when they retire.

I don't know the situation for call-backs of laid off workers.
Ol

[DainBramaged]

30. Some jerk off on Tweety's show was touting the Volkswagen plant in his state

his "Right to work" state, and how he shouldn't be subsidizing the workers in Detroit. I hope the UAW remembers who these turds are in two, four and six years, because we're going to work to defeat every one of them.

[amandabeech]

28. I agree with a whole lot of what you say.

However, just a couple of differences.

With respect to Buick, I'm 53 and I nearly bought one because they're very reliable.

I don't think that GM should dump the innards of the Buicks, but maybe should rebadge them as Chevys, maybe tighten the suspension a little and do something with the sheet metal.

As to the rest of the vehicle, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

What I did buy was a gently used Taurus. Love it.

I know that you're a GM guy, but I don't think that Ford will go out of the car market if it avoids liquidation. What they're trying to do, as I'm sure you know, is bring their popular Euro cars here, including a new version of the Fiesta (hopefully with a new name), maybe the SmartCar sized Ka, a new Focus (with a really nice looking Cabriolet) and the Mondeo. If it's like the Euro version of the Escort that I rented in Sweden in '95, the Euro invasion might work out for them. You're right, though, they need to be made here.

I had two Opels and really loved the Manta. Maybe GM will bring some of their popular smaller Euro designs to their U.S. factories.

The hybrid Fusion might work out well, too. The Volt, of course, is ground-breaking. I hope GM lasts to put it out there. GM has done a lot with hydrogen, but hydrogen is in deep hibernation until someone can get a bunch of "filling" stations going and folks are ready for little Graf Zeppelins in their trunks. Pinto-esque.

I think that you're taking your Ford auto competition a little too lightly. Like U-Mich did with Appalachian State a couple of years ago.

But then, I've always liked Ford. And Jeep.

[DainBramaged]

31. The innards of the Buick are the innards of the Chevy are the innards of the Pontiac

they stopped being different over 5 years ago to reduce cost and take advantage of cross-platform designs. For every 15 Chevy's sold we sell one Buick. Oh, and GM needs to dump Saab, period. Unlike Volvo (which Ford has wonderfully fucked up over the past decade) the sales are microscopic, and except in the Northeast, no one understands Saab anyway.

[amandabeech]

37. I looked at Cosumer Reports, which normally lists clones together,

and it didn't appear that Buick was offering clones of Chevy, Pontiac and Caddie.

I'd like to look at something that shows the "twins".

Do you have something in mind that I could look at?

[spoony]

32. Great points.

I'd add that young line workers are not only staying away because of money, it's security too. This used to be an industry where you worked for one company for your whole career and that was a lot of the appeal, job security at a place where a union will fight for livable wages and benefits, generation after generation. The steps you've outlined will help make it that way again, and the young will come back.

[Jack Sprat]

35. Get rid of the CEOs and Board of Directors

Obviously, they have led the Big 3 to this threshold. Make the owners participate in the running of operations, with their pay affixed to fixed ratio of their lowest paid factory worker. No profitability, no raise or even wage cuts. Same across the board for plant managers and crews. Give everyone a percentage in making quality and workmanship pay off in tandem. Streamline operations by lopping off the high rollers, whose interest is mostly pleasing the market investors.

[Jack Sprat]

36. Get rid of the CEOs and Board of Directors

Obviously, they have led the Big 3 to this threshold. Make the owners participate in the running of operations, with their pay affixed to fixed ratio of their lowest paid factory worker. No profitability, no raise or even wage cuts. Same across the board for plant managers and crews. Give everyone a percentage in making quality and workmanship pay off in tandem. Streamline operations by lopping off the high rollers, whose interest is mostly pleasing the market investors.

[Hubert Flottz]

38. I agree...

Make it a level playing field by taxing the hell out of imports and the American companies will make a killing again.

Let the car companies fold and our national security, along with our economy, are toast.

It's all about republicans busting the unions and the voters should ALWAYS remember this very time when the lame ducks tried to drive in the last nail.

[Waiting For Everyman]

39. I'd like to see Chevy make an affordable baby vette

like the 240Z's used to be. I mean really affordable though.

[LSK]

53. the base model Vette goes for $50k, and it can run with cars costing twice that much

It is one hell of a value, bang for the buck at $50k. You can pick up a 5 - 10 year old one for around $20k and still be one of the fastest cars on the road.

[Blue Gardener]

40. Saturn was good when it was in Spring Hill

I loved my 1992 SL2. I traded it for a Ford Focus this year, I know the Focus was made in America. The comparable Saturn is made in Europe.

[JNelson6563]

41. Bravo! Bravo ten times over!

As a motor-city girl I couldn't agree with you more! Splendid job making valid points.

:toast: :patriot:

Julie

[PVnRT]

42. I agree with most of that

GM, especially, seems to have three dozen lines all making the same thing. I don't know why they even bother with Buicks.

I don't know where you get that kids want to do retail or computers...kids where I'm from would kill for auto factory jobs instead of the $10-an-hour warehousing shit that is the best unskilled work available in the area.

[Marrah_G]

44. Cheers to you and to the UAW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MadHound]

45. You've got some good points, but what's this about a "living wage"?

Please, at an average of $28/hour, with nice benefits? Tell you what, get in line behind teachers, nurses, social workers and other professions that are required to be highly educated, but are grossly underpaid. Once we take care of them, then we can talk about your "living wage"

[sellitman]

49. Great rant but remind me never to meet you in a Taco Bell.

:evilgrin:

[DainBramaged]

52. Thanks for reading the whole rant!

[sellitman]

59. I read the whole rant but.......

butt..........

[AzDar]

50. K & R ...

:kick:

[ogneopasno]

51. Right on, right on, right on, right on. From your post to the world's ears.

[DainBramaged]

57. Too bad we're in the minority. Save your money, stash food.

The shitstorm is coming. America and most here are too selfish to realize how big the domino effect will be if any of the big 3 fail. From the manufacturers to the gas stations, we're looking at anarchy. And so so many here just don't give a shit.


Do the hamster dance, and wait for the men in white coats.

[ogneopasno]

58. I'm sorry to see you changed your avatar and sig line.

Solidarity, brother -- some of us still believe in that word.

[Turborama]

55. Some very good points and I totally agree. However, the hybrids are a red herring...

As evidenced by the success of the Prius (available in showrooms in May, 6 month waiting list now), consumers want cars that use less fuel NOW. However, all three of these companies make the type of fuel efficient cars that more and more car buyers are wanting to own. Chrysler are in fact already making 35 MPG cars and SUVs in America, but American citizens can't buy them... In addition, Ford are producing cars in Europe that do up to 65 MPG and GM are making some great cars outside of the US too, they have the technology already so why not not shift that to the factories back home?

The car industry in America needs to introduce the turbo diesel cars they are making for the European market. Diesel in America has a bad name and is more expensive than gas. However, with the MPG taken into consideration, it actually works out cheaper.

I have gathered a hell of a lot of information and listed the cars that each company are making that fit the brief description above to back up this argument and have put most of it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4501189&mesg_id=4501189

and here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4501189&mesg_id=4501674

I'd really like to hear your thoughts on these suggestions...


One example:

The US one is double the weight of the UK one and has double the horsepower. Yet they are both the same price...




I've also just added all this stuff to my journal (can't seem to get the posts in the right order though. The 1st one starts in the middle)
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Turborama

[mike_c]

56. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

Ten times. Dayum! That was righteous!

Not entirely sure I agree with all of it, but then again I'm not sure I'm qualified to say squat. My hat is off, though....

:patriot:

[SmileyRose]

60. 1 minute too late to recommend.

The biggest fattest kick I can muster.

It's perfect.

Though I believe in the process of bankruptcy me and mine are going to take an absolute bath regarding pension and medical care (retirees are going to get shit on big time I think) - I would just like to see something of our once great manufacturing base survive.