Ravi Batra just suggested on Thom Hartmann that...

[LSK]

The Govt buy 60% of GM and then proceed to sell those shares to the workers of GM.

He says the workers should have more control of the company and this is a way to get there.

What do you think?

[amdezurik]

1. that will give the repukes heart attacks

which is not all that bad a thing. but that would not lead to the destruction of unions and the middle class so it would be fought by them.

[David Dunham]

2. Bad idea. The public's money should be paid back by GM once it is profitable again.

[99th_Monkey]

18. I hope you're not holding your breath. Throwing good money after bad at failing companies

is not going to save the auto industry, or the insurance industry, or the banking industry.

ANY AND ALL PUBLIC MONEY INVESTED NEEDS TO BE TIED TO COMPLETE OVERHAUL OF MANAGEMENT, INCLUDING
SOME PROVISION TO RENDER JOBS (PRESUMABLY BEING "SAVED") AS OUTSOURCE-PROOF BY GIVING WORKERS
SOME OWNERSHIP/CONTROL IN MAKING KEY DECISIONS (i.e. whether to keep manufacturing HUMMERS and
SUVs & other gas-hogs OR to retool for the 21st Century w/ electric/hybrid cutting edge technology,
OR decisions like outsourcing jobs to Mexico).

[DireStrike]

3. The workers can afford to buy shares?

Even if they could they would not get greater control.

[LSK]

5. they can when its selling for $1 a share

[Idealism]

4. Its a more complex process than he lets on

For the workers to change the company culture would be much more intensive than them simply owning a majority stake in the company. The corporate structure in this company does not condone worker rights or input into their 'kingdom' of a company

[Ian David]

6. If it's good enough for Sunkist, it's good enough for GM. n/t

[Phred42]

7. It's a great idea. That should be done with ANY government bailout

that will make any company think twice about handouts.

It should be the LAW for government bailouts

[lligrd]

8. Better Than Giving The Money To Executives Who Have

proved time and time again that they have no idea how to run a profitable company and produce decent cars.

[lovuian]

9. In Germany workers are represented on the Boards

it is because Labor must be represented and check the Board memebers

[lapfog_1]

10. Thom also mentioned that the market cap of GM is now

less than the market cap for Bed, Bath, and Beyond.

That's an astounding number all by itself.

[taught_me_patience]

28. Market cap is marketcap of the equity

Total value of the company is the market value of the equity + market value of debt.

[Fovea]

11. it is one solution

but probably not the best one.

The problem of GM is all waiting on the development of what 21st century will look like.
The current automotive/highway system is probably not going to be the winner.

Mass transit will move most people in the world in the next 20 years. Let big auto become big railcar.

[doc03]

12. The UAW has too much control of

the auto industry now, that's one reason they can't compete with the rest of the world. What will they have then twice as many workers sitting in the cafeteria watching Oprah. They should let the auto industry file bankruptcy and reorganize, it doesn't help to throw more money at a bad business model. Ravi Batra wrote a book The Great Depression of 1990. He is an expert??

[LSK]

14. wow what a load of crap!!!!

Can you fit any more stereotypes???

Please explain to us how on earth GM survived for nearly a century while having unions???

Do other countries not have labor unions???

Also, so are you to tell me that all non-union working employees NEVER TAKE BREAKS??? What bullshit!!!

[doc03]

16. You haven't heard of the guaranteed work contracts?

A company just can't survive when they can't cut the work force in slow business cycles. The auto industry lobbyied to prevent the steel industry from getting any assistance a few years ago, we had to bite the bullet and lost 100s of thousands of jobs, our pensions and health care. As much as it hurts the UAW has to face up to facts or die. The best quality cars Ford makes are made in Mexico with non-UAW labor explain that.

[LSK]

19. so there has been no slow business cycles in the past 100 years or so

Until now???

How has GM survived the past century with unions????

:shrug:

[doc03]

20. GM survived back in the 70s and 80s because the government

protected them from foreign competition. In exchange for that protection it was supposed to give the auto industry breathing room to retool and make competitive vehicles, what did we get Hummers and Escalades. Chrysler was bailed out back then, remember? Fifty years ago the UAW didn't have no layoff contracts and Jobs Banks. We had a no layoff contract in the steel industry and we had to give it up or have no job at all. We had extended vacations in the steel industry where we got an extra 10 weeks every 5 years, we had to give those up. What does an autoworker retire with after 30 years $3500 to $4000 a month pension? Well they dumpped ours on the PBGC and if it is still there when I reach retirement age I will get $1317 a month for 40 years work. You know how we lost those things? The auto industry lobbied Congress not to give us a damn bit of help, we were left hanging.

[Deja Q]

26. And you've been there to their plants and have continual proof?

Health care is probably a logical reason, but the health care costs are not GM's fault. They're as much stuck as everyone else...

And where are the parts made that the US workers assemble them from?

And who wants big SUVs?

Blame the workers and one day you'll have only yourself to blame.

[bobbolink]

30. That's really funny.

:rofl:

The BIGGEST reason they (and other businesses)can't compete with other countries is....

.......

....

you're not going to like this....

.....

.....

.....

The LACK of universal single payer health care.

Which the other countries have.

Try not to swallow your gum.

[Warpy]

13. It's one way to get the government out of the car business

but I still feel any plan to save our remaining non military industry should start with the executives' heads on pikes.

Continuing to push gas guzzlers because the profit margin was higher while keeping their decent fuel efficient cars a deep dark secret is criminal behavior, IMO, cheating the stockholders long term by handing the small car market to offshore companies.

If I can't get their heads on pikes, I should at least see them pink slipped, no severance, don't let the door smack 'em, buh-bye.

Selling a company with appallingly bad management to its employees isn't really the answer. You have to change the management, first, to make that company viable.

[doc03]

15. ESOPs ultimately fail, the employee owners

give themselves all the profits and fail to hold back any for modernization. Eventually when the profits dry up they have to sell off more and more of their stake in the company to raise funds and eventually are reduced to minority shareholders. I am a witness to a local company that went ESOP and people said then that is what eventually happens and and in just a few years it did. At the time it went ESOP they had around 10000 employees now they have around 700 and they are owned by an Indian company. In the process they lost all their pensions, health insurance and thousands of jobs.

[Cleita]

24. That's a pretty broad statement.

Companies of all kinds fail depending on the circumstances and the times.

[99th_Monkey]

32. But Worker-owned Cooperatives & Collectives work just fine: see Mondragon Spain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondrag%C3%B3n_Cooperative_Corporation
http://www.solhaam.org/articles/mondra.html
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC02/Gilman2.htm

[99th_Monkey]

17. DING!! DING!! DING!! - We have a winner!!!

INHO ANY bailout of ANY private company needs to include as a requirement that WORKERS get leveraged
into an ownership position in the company, preferably with substantial CONTROL over key decisions, like
OUTSOURCING their own jobs to Mexico.

WORKER OWNERSHIP = OUTSOURCE PROOF JOBS FOR AMERICANS ONLY

[doc03]

21. ESOPs don't work see #15 n/t

[99th_Monkey]

31. But Worker-owned Cooperatives DO work. See Mondragon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondrag%C3%B3n_Cooperative_Corporation
http://www.solhaam.org/articles/mondra.html
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC02/Gilman2.htm

[Cleita]

22. Honestly, President Obama would be wise to pick

Dr. Batra for his Secretary of the Treasury. He has the best solutions to the troubles that ail the economy.

[doc03]

23. The great Depression of 1990 by Ravi Batra he kind of got

that one wrong. I read that book and took his advice and missed out on some of the best years for the market.

[Cleita]

25. Really?

What was his advice that was so wrong?

[doc03]

27. I don't recall the Great Depression of 1990, as a matter of fact

the 1990's were some of the best years ever for the market. Actually what he said in the book has finally come true only 18 years late.

on edit: As I recall his advice was to get out of the market and go for safety in Banks or gold. That's about what he is still saying even a broke clock is right twice a day.

[Cleita]

29. This is what Dr. Batra has to say himself about his predictions for the 1990s.

Thus you see virtually all the predictions I made over the two decades between 1978 to 1997 have already come true. The only forecast that did not fully materialize is No. 19, because share prices crashed in Japan that year but not in the United States, and the world faced only a recession, not a depression. An interesting question now presents itself: When someone makes a great many prophecies, and almost all come true, then what happened in the one case where the accuracy was only partial. In other words, what happened to the great depression of 1990, the title of my work first published in 1985?

More at http://www.ravibatra.com/Forecasting.html

[DU GrovelBot]

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[lib2DaBone]

34. Ravi Batra also said that this is not the 'bottom' of the economy...

..Today on Tom Hasrtman he said that we are just beginning our venture into the recession/depression. We won't emerge from this until 2011.. maybe....