Does General Motors have the patents and other intellectual property needed to survive

[FarCenter]

A large part of the value that GM produces today is the engine/transaxle package. Aside from the major body stampings, much of the rest comes from various suppliers and is only assembled by GM.

In electric vehicles, the engine/transaxle package is replaced by batteries or fuel cells, power electronics, and multi-horsepower electric motor drives.

Does GM have the patents needed to both design competitive electric drive trains and to set up the manufacturing processes to produce the various subsystems that they consist of?

Batteries, for instance, today are mainly produced by several Japanese and Korean companies with manufacturing in those countries and others in the Far East. And companies such as Sanyo are dominant in both design of the batteries and the plants to produce them.

If GM doesn't have the patents for the design and manufacture of the new electical power train, then it is reduced to bending sheet metal and doing final assembly.

This is a significant reduction in GMs added value, and will only support a much smaller number of employees and investment. It would wind up being not much different than the US assembly operations of Toyota, which make a relatively low percentage of the parts, source many of the high value parts such as the drive train from Japan and elsewhere, and do final assembly in the US.

GMs previous attempts at game-changing technologies have faired poorly. For example, attempts to mass market aluminum block engines have resulted in a lot of really crap engines, such as the flat-6 in the Corvair.

It's not clear whether GM can be restored to be a going concern.

[ixion]

1. from what I've heard over the years, GM (and others) routinely buy up patents

for batteries, carburetors, etc and sit on them in order to maintain the status quo. In all fairness, I have no documentation to back this up (save for 'Who Killed the Electric Car?'), but it's a pretty common corporate practice, so I don't see this as a stretch of logic.

I think they have the patents they need. I think they need to do their job now, and use them to re-invent themselves rather than asking for a handout.

[leftchick]

2. congress should be REQUIRED to view 'Who Killed the Electric Car?'

before giving them one thin dime!

[FarCenter]

6. The EV1 appears to have used lead acid and NiMH batteries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovonic

GM has pursued NiMH and hydrogen fuel cells, both of which appear to be not commercially competitive technologies. The EV1's drive train appears to have been composed from parts from various suppliers, not manufactured by GM.

[FarCenter]

3. A lot of patents aren't for sale

They are produced by the R&D labs of corporations, especially the ones on manufacturing processes, as opposed to product design.

Large companies often cross-license patent portfolios. But the battery, power electronics and electric motor/generator companies would seem to be outside GMs typical cross-licensing partners, especially the foreign corporations.

[DainBramaged]

4. How wonderful so many here are now so concerned about GM and it's future

:eyes:

[stray cat]

5. I think people care about the Americans who will be out of work and lose their pensions/health care

and livlihood. The number is staggering because it includes not just direct employess but any one who supplies goods for manufacturing, transportation, or upstream in sales etc
:eyes:

[DainBramaged]

7. I am totally aware of that side effect, and I've been posting about the situation

for weeks, but no one seemed to notice.

As I have said so many many times in the past, DU thinks the plight of Labor and the industries they toil in is not their problem. Just look at the viewing statistics in the Labor forum. If I posted an article about Sarah Palin dying her hair, HUNDREDS will reply. This thread will die a quick death before I leave the house for work at 10:30 (I have second shift today).

On edit, to answer the OP's original question, yes they do, and the word LICENSING is very big in the auto industry. As is MERCHANDISING. It has little to do with patents or who owns them.

[FarCenter]

8. If they don't have the intellectual property and expertise, another $25 billion won't help

It will only forestall the inevitable by several months.

So the government should send the best minds from DARPA over to GM to audit their technology position before Treasury coughs up the money.

[DainBramaged]

10. You are so so wrong, but that's OK. At least your thought was original.

I posted a very detailed article in GD the other day at how the Chairman of Toyota is in a PANIC because their profits (projected) for the year (net) will only be about $5 billion dollars. King Toyota, over 70% off on their profit projections. HE is extremely concerned because all of the big trucks and suvs they manufacture (the PROFITABLE vehicles) are stagnant, and all of the small cars make very little profit, which were subsidized by the trucks/suvs.

Should I feel sorry for Toyota? Should I wonder if they have the patents to survive? Did you know the Zero percent financing they are offering now (the FIRST time in their history) is subsidized by their government to help them survive too?

I am getting ready for work.

School's out.

[FarCenter]

9. Current pensions would be taken over by PBGC

Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation takes over payments to existing pensioners, although they cap them at somewhere in the $40K/year range.