if the big 3 want a bail out they first must adhere to a few conditions...

[Javaman]

1) all new vehicles must get at least 35 miles to the gallon.

2) 50% of all new cars must be made of recyclable material that can also be recycled yet again.

3) A weight limit on all new passenger cars. This would include but not be limited to pickups.

4) All new models have to be either hybrids, all electric or other alternative fuels. No more all gasoline powered vehicles ever again.

5) You will now be subjected to a windfall profit tax. These tax dollars will go to supporting the railroad infrastructure.

Thoughts?

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Good stuff. I would add no executive bonuses or golden parachutes, and that

payroll takes priority. The workers should not go unpaid.

[crickets]

9. Agreed, and I would also suggest

a projected scale of increasing mileage to be achieved over time to be added to #1. Regardless of which energy source is being used, it should be used as efficiently as possible.

#4 might be problematic for reasons another poster pointed out, but it's definitely a goal that should be required, with a date set for the mandatory extinction of gasoline powered cars.

[Javaman]

20. yeah, the owners take the hit before the employees. nt

[phantom power]

2. I would organize it a bit differently...

Fleet average of 35mpg, or maybe 40mpg (no minimum). No rules relating to weight, or fuel. They can achieve their efficiency however they want.

[Javaman]

21. That's a better idea. no limits just a goal of 35+mpg to be reached by what ever means. nt

[Warpy]

3. Hybrids are pretty useless for a lot of us in flyover country

unless we live in the city and do little highway driving. The highway mileage of a hybrid is usually less than that of an economy car with a gas engine. Cars should rather be chosen for the type of driving you do.

My own solution is a Korean econocar that gets 40+ on the highway plus an electric scooter for short trips in town.

My own substitution for #4 would be "upper management's heads on pikes."

[Javaman]

22. I have always like the idea of a "to and from" vehicle. since most

urban drivers only use their cars for to and from work.

[HereSince1628]

4. Seems you don't want a bail out.

No matter the merits of what you post, the combination of those conditions has a pretty low probability of being met in any timeframe that saves the network of industries, communities, and families that are associated with the auto industry.

[Javaman]

7. Seems like you choose to continue with the same old thinking, that there is no hope.

the american auto industry is vanishing before our eyes. we are at a moment in time where we can craft a new industry that is good for that nation as well as the worker.

apparently you haven't noticed the massive layoffs.

no job is no job and the way the current big 3 are running their corps, no more jobs will be the order of the day very soon. So why not retool and make vehicles attractive to a nation in need of a greener alternative solution?

I recall Henry Ford said something along the lines of, "I want to build a car my employees can afford". So why not build one that not only can the employees afford, but also is good for the nation and the world?

[HereSince1628]

13. No you are wrong on that. But, the conditions in the OP

cannot be met in months and that is exactly what the workers, and their communities require. I think the automotive industry is a strategic industry that needs to be protected. I agree that as a strategic industry, backed up by the federal government, the auto industry needs to be required to make some very bold changes to meet the strategic energy/transportation needs of the country.

It isn't that I don't agree with most of your targets. I just don't think the automotive industry can make the transition to the demands of the OP within a timeframe that saves the companies and the jobs.

[Javaman]

15. where did I put time limits? nt

[HereSince1628]

27. In part, the way you said no more gasoline engines.

You made sound like a change that must take place immediately. Maybe I misunderstood your intent.

[Javaman]

28. I could have worded it better.

it could have been the stalin in me. ;) lol

[phantom power]

5. I'd like to see a way to redirect some of the manufacturing capacity...

to building trains, wind turbine components, components for nuclear plants, etc. I assume what workers want is jobs, not necessarily jobs building automobiles.

I don't know what the best way to do that would be. It would be nice for the govt to try and make such a transition as fast as possible.

[Javaman]

24. Originally, I was going to post as once of the requirements that the auto

manufactures had to retool their plants to manufacture streetcars, light rail cars and trains as well. But eliminated it at the last minute.

[Rivethead]

I agree to all your points, especially as Chrysler/Dodge..

has singlehandedly been attempting to completely depelete the world of gasoline, for years. Look at their line-up... everything has horrible mpg, and is a heavy polluter. THere is no need for a Dodge Ram, averaging 9 mpg in the city and putting out noxious fumes, even to exist. There is no need for a Durango, averaging 16 mpg on the highway to exist. Stupid, redneck junk.

[Ganja Ninja]

6. How about all future profits will be invested in their US operations.

No more making money here in good times and investing it over in the far east and europe. No more begging the government when the products they should have redesigned and updated won't sell.

How about a commitment to sell American made cars and trucks abroad buy building vehicles here in America for the world market.

And one last thing. No more pitting one community and or state against the other for tax breaks when deciding where to build new plants. The government should tell them where these plants will be built.

[Javaman]

25. All very good suggestions.

I'm going to compile a list from this post and send it to the Obama campaign office. I will be including yours. :)

[dysfunctional press]

8. windfall profit tax..???

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Javaman]

16. I know, I know... but at some point...

when and if they get back on their feet with new tech, people will be buying them once again, considering demand is so high for alt energy vehicles.

[Spider Jerusalem]

10. Greater fuel efficiency and more hybrid/alternative energy vehicles are a good start.

However, not all new vehicles will get 35mpg. Trucks designed for heavy cargo capacity, for instance, won't. And there's a need and a market niche for those vehicles.

Something else to consider is a vehicle tax similar to the one in place in many European countries (vehicles are taxed based on engine displacement; a vehicle with an engine displacing more than 2.8 litres is subject to higher taxation).

[Javaman]

17. Good point, I should have stated that all my suggestions are for passenger vehicles. nt

[Neshanic]

11. Nancy and Harry will be more than pliable. They just will sign the check.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. How about no more union busting lawyers?

:-)

Since we're on the wish list...

[Javaman]

18. I like that too! :) nt

[Strelnikov_]

14. My simplified version. Bailout is a loan to retool and fund startup costs

for production of 'fleet average' 70 mpg+ (gasoline equivalent) vehicles only (fleet defined as vehicles produced by the bailout funded facilities).

The only way the US auto companies will be competitive on the world market is production of energy efficient vehicles.

Also, what is going to be the demand for land yachts when the monthly gas ration is 20 gal.? People seem to think, with a collapsing world financial system, we will continue to consume 30% of the worlds petroleum export market using money borrowed from other countries.

At some point, we will have to balance imports with exports. Being a world leader in energy efficient personal transportation would be one way to get there.

[Javaman]

19. That's actually pretty insightful...

start producing a very high mileage car right off the bat that the whole world wants not just Americans.

That's a very good idea.

[Hannah Bell]

31. US corps seem to have enough cash for "start-up costs" in China, Russia, & India.

They build high-mileage cars in Europe. They're building them in China. But here they can't do it unless you give them $$$$$$$.

[jakefrep]

39. Those high mileage cars aren't LEGAL to be sold in the US

Due to the different regulations governing cars in different parts of the world. Our government is a bigger roadblock to more efficient vehicles than any management hack at GM.

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. "All new models have to be... No more all gasoline powered vehicles ever again."

That sounds like a time limit to me. All new models starting when?

[Javaman]

26. exactly, when. no time limit. that has to be determined by prevailing circumstances. nt

[theboss]

29. It would be better to just let them die and start a "National Auto Manufacturer" under that plan

You are basically demanding that they create a new industry. Why would you do that with the old debt they have?

[Sherman A1]

30. How much of that old debt is underfunded pensions and healthcare

for working class or retirees that really need it and were made the promise of those benefits?

[Hannah Bell]

34. In 2005, GM had about 777,000 employees & pensioners worldwide.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-9693173_ITM

The figure is lower today (lay-offs, deaths, & their declining workforce for the last 30 years).

GM revenue in 2007 was 181 billion.

If you assume half of that goes to cost of materials, overhead, distribution, etc, it leaves 90.5 billion. Take 45 billion in profit & it still leaves about 60K per employee & retiree.

Where's the money going?

[DU GrovelBot]

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[NashVegas]

33. 6. Your Cars Must Be Manufactured in the USA

By laborers making living wages.

[backwoodsbob]

35. hmmm

1:good idea

2:If that is possible,again,good idea

3:Simply won't happen.What about the farmers who need heavy duty trucks?The guy down the road from me who raises cattle can't haul on a truck that will buckle because it is made of light material

4:doable but not likely to happen

5:won't happen

[natrat]

36. please...where were you when they were handing 20x that to the banks no questions asked

[Javaman]

40. I was protesting it, where were you?

I signed petitions and wrote actual hand written letters to my do nothing congress critters.

Please, how does your comment add to the discussion?

stop throwing rocks, okay?

jesus.

[ileus]

37. Sell all cars at cost help the working poor.

[theboss]

38. So, you want a nationalized car company then

That's good.

Can we nationalize hamburger joints too?