Here's what I don't understand: CA voters vicious to gays, CT voters say Nope

[CTyankee]

to a Constitutional Convention designed to be vicious to gays.

Buttoned-up, uptight CT vs. freewheeling CA with a LOT more diversity.

Does this make any sense?

I'm thinking it might have to do with the fact that CT doesn't have ballot Initiatives and the only way to get around CT's state Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage is by Constitutional Convention. Maybe folks in the Land of Steady Habits doesn't think mucking around with the state Constitution would be a great idea, that maybe some of their own rights could get railroaded so we'd better be careful.

Anybody have some thoughts on this seeming paradox of two liberal, blue states?

[lligrd]

1. Money And Lies nt

[Chan790]

9. Actually there was a proportional amount of money spent here...

and by the same assholes (Focus on The Family, Family Institute, K of C, et al.)

A large portion of the difference is that CT Question #1 had other potential repercussions including a gutting of labor protections, forced decreases in services (as a result of rescinding the state income tax combined with our existing balanced-budget law. Nutmeggers are very protective of our perks and have repeatedly shown willingness to pay higher taxes to keep them.), easing of environmental standards, requiring parental notification for abortions for teens (CT is a staunchly pro-choice state.), mandating a three-strikes law for non-violent offenders who show a potential for escalation. It was basically going to be a blitz of RW special interests that they knew they couldn't get through the "front door".

Once we got that message out, we knew it was winnable. The result was that it was easy to turn out even those voters who vocally opposed marriage-equity to protect their personal interest (e.g. Keeping their union strong), overriding their personal feelings of homophobia.

[CTyankee]

10. But how strong a state is CT pro labor union? My husband is a member of AFSME but

I don't know how strongthat union is statewide. I'd like to think it was very strong, of course, but I don't know.

[Chan790]

12. It used to be stronger...

all those manufacturing jobs at GE and Pratt and Whitney that left the state were IAM jobs for the most part. Most of the jobs that have left from Electric Boat were UAW. If I thought for a few minutes I could probably come up with another 40,000 union jobs that left CT.

There is still a fairly strong SEIU and UFCW presence because of our largely-retail economy in state.

[Ian David]

2. I think it's simply the fact that Connecticut doesn't have that fucked-up ballot initiative practice

[CTyankee]

7. Are you saying that when you put the question of a constitutional CONVENTION on the ballot

people kind of "snap to"? I wonder. I'm hoping to read some kind of analysis in the Sunday papers that would shed some light on it.

The only other thing I can think of is that we don't have a very large fundamentalist church population here. We have a large Roman Catholic population, many Italian Americans, but the fundies don't have much of a foothold. And if anything, we are LOSING people in our state because our industries died and have not been adequately replaced to the level they were once at. So that may be an explanation.

[slampoet]

18. BINGO !!! We have a winner.

[Beregond2]

3. You are right, as far as that goes.

But there are other factors.

The image of "freewheeling CA" is innaccurate. Yes, in SF and LA, that may apply, in part. But there are vast regions of CA that are anything but liberal. It is always amazing to me that the state that gave us Nixon, Reagan, and Schwarzenneger still has this unreservedly liberal reputation.

[Tektonik]

4. CA is a lot more than the Bay Area and LA

We are a state diseased with a super religious under belly.

For as many people there are in SF and LA, there's tons of whackos in Fresno and the rest of the central valley, Kern Cty, Orange Cty, Riverside, Cty, and San Bernandino Cty.

I've lived in LA and SD, and there are a lot of Jesus fearing homophobes but vote Democratic on economic issues.

The good thing is that the youth population seems to be nothing like the scourge which is our elderly voting population.

[AlCzervik]

5. We wish it was a liberal here as it's portrayed in the media. I live in Norcal and there's

plenty of Red and lot and lots of churches.

[Warpy]

6. New Englanders only look straight laced.

The fact is that just under that gruff exterior they are all pure mush. They will tolerate anyone and do anything for anyone else, whether or not they like him.

I love those taciturn old Yankee types. It's what kept me there through 22 Boston winters.

[rebecca_herman]

8. A couple of reasons

I live in Connecticut and there were probably a couple of reasons that this failed that weren't specifically related to gay marriage, namely that we don't change the constitution often here so that probably worried some people, and also there was a lot of feelings going around that if it passed, the convention would cost the state a lot of money but nothing would actually be accomplished there either way.

There is a legislative method for amending the constitution without a convention actually, so it's not the only way to do so.

But I will admit in another year, if social issues were not a factor that would have come up at the convention, I probably would have voted yes instead of no. I've been very disappointed in the state's handling of eminent domain and the repeat violent crime offender bill that didn't pass.

[Midlodemocrat]

11. CT is pretty liberal. It's one of the reasons I miss living there.

I wouldn't be dealing with all this racist shit here if I still did.

I am, however, strong enough to deal with it and I am thrilled that I, my husband and my first time voter had a hand in turning VA blue.

[CTyankee]

13. Good for you! I'd had it with VA after the ERA debacle. I was so happy to move to CT

with its liberal electorate.

I certainly don't miss VA. I love it here. Prochoice, proERA (which was a major problem with VA during that struggle), progay rights, prochild. All good!

[Chan790]

14. I didn't know you used to be a nutmegger.

I know if I could leave, I would not be looking back.

[Midlodemocrat]

20. Yup. All my life until 1990. Went to UCONN in fact.

But, this is my children's home, and all of my family is either gone from there or passed, so we won't be back.

[jonnyblitz]

17. I lived in norfolk/VA Beach for a few years in the 80's and I had a

blast in spite of racism and the wingnuts. I had my clique of gay folk and punk rockers to hang with and we all hung out at this cool after hours private gay club in downtown Norfolk that was open until sunrise!where i lived in VA may have been conservative and the land of Pat Robertson but I sure had my fun! I saw sooo many good concerts at Hampton Coliseum, too. I was in the navy during this time.

there is some racism here in CT, too,btw. there is a group of racist skinheads called "the CT white wolves" that harassed a high school straight-gay alliance at one of their meetings once a few years back in Stratford, CT. so we have shit here too.

[AllieB]

15. CT is probably somewhat similar to Massachusetts.

CA has way more fundamentalist Christians than MA or CT. CT, like MA, has a 'mind-your-own-business' attitude toward matters of sex, marriage, and religion, which stems from old Yankee attitudes toward privacy. I don't know about CT, but when there was hoopla around gay marriage in MA, they were busing people in from out-of-state churches to stand in front of the state house in Boston. Most of the money came from out of state anti-gay organizations (the exception being Mass Resistance and the Massachusetts Family Institute).

I think it's the Yankee thing-very MYOB, don't shove your religion and values in my face, and what you do in the privacy of your own home is your business.

[gorbal]

23. Massacusetss is turning into Amsterdamn

Gay Marriage and decriminalizing pot? I should move back, lol!

[justiceischeap]

16. I don't know what kind of ads the opposition ran in CT

but have you watched the ads in CA?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PgjcgqFYP4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKn5LNhNto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l61Pd5_jHQw

Each one of these ads lied about what children would learn in school. They pitted children against gays and apparently we aren't cuddly enough to win over the voters (let's not forget that we are all someone's child).

[CTyankee]

22. The oppo had only one ad run spottily at first and only increasing in the last week.

It was pretty lame and just tried to portray the CC as democracy expansion. It was mild and tame.

I will say tho that the Knights of Columbus, with HQ right here in liberal New Haven, contributed about $1.25m to the CA initiative. Ugh.

[riverdeep]

19. The ballot iniative vs. Constitutional amendment makes a big difference.

I think you need a three fourths majority in the general assembly before those things get out to voters. The anti gay marriage folks want a work around because they know they can't possibly win with the way things are presently.

[MadHound]

21. Despite California's reputation for being a liberal heaven,

It has a serious and large group of real conservative people, always has, always will. Most the time they are in the minority, however every once in a while they're able to make enough of a common cause with others to actually get something passed. After all, this is the state that gave us Nixon, Reagan, Prop 13 and now Prop 8.

Sorry, but California isn't a liberal paradise, it's just a bit more liberal than other areas.