About prop8, maybe instead of blaming black people, we should be blaming the middle class.

[JVS]

I was looking through the exit polling on prop 8 and came across this interesting table. It seems unfair to lay the burden of this at the feet of a small segment of the population, when we can see here that apart from the bottom 15% and top 16%, prop8 did very well. I would easily believe that socioeconomic class played a large role in forming these voters' views of marriage. Of course, the middle class is not nearly as popular and safe a group to challenge as black people, so maybe these stats will be ignored.

Vote by Income
Total
YesNo
Under $15,000 (5%)
46%
54%



$15-30,000 (10%)
48%
52%



$30-50,000 (15%)
54%
46%



$50-75,000 (19%)
54%
46%



$75-100,000 (17%)
50%
50%



$100-150,000 (17%)
54%
46%



$150-200,000 (7%)
47%
53%



$200,000 or More (9%)
45%
55%

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. Personally, I blame ALL the bigots who voted for it

It is just astonishing that so many black people, who are all too often the target if the same kind of bigotry, would themselves be in that group.

[JVS]

2. The focus I see on black and latino voters on this today singles those groups out

My stats cover all

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Problem is I have found people who are black and Latino (and white as well but not today)

who are happy this passed

They were mostly used... by the way

And it goes to show how broken the system is....

That is matter for another day I guess...

But my encounter with two minorities from those two groups, IN THE FLESH today... was instructive

Then again I also had an encounter with a very middle class woman who was not only against the Gay but also called Obama a N****R the other day.

So you are right, except that we do need to do a lot of outreach to many groups and insofar as these two are concerned... it includes a lot of education as to why this is a CIVIL RIGHTS issue

[MomOf4]

5. Umm...

I don't think they voted against it because they're black. They voted against it because they're somewhat conservative. I don't know why folk are surprised that church-going black folk voted this way.

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. They voted FOR it, not against it, despite having been on the receiving end of the same hate

That lack of empathy into the plight of others facing the very same problems they are facing is newsworthy, in my opinion.

[yardwork]

9. Maybe because we thought that church-going black people would be more Christian?

[AntiFascist]

3. I blame the No on 8 campaign....

there were a number of things they could have done better to put the No votes ahead, since the margin of victory was so close.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x86622

[Deep13]

4. Oh, I'm not blaming Black people.

I'm blaming Christianity.

[yardwork]

6. I don't think anybody is singling out African Americans for blame.

It's just kind of sad that 70% of the Africans who voted chose to take away human rights. But of course the blame goes to everyone who voted to take away human rights, including the millions of white, Latino, Asian, and other voters. It's just that fewer percentages of those groups voted to take away human rights.

And yes, it's very reasonable to ask why people earning $30,000 to $150,000 voted to take away human rights in greater numbers than the wealthy and the poor. Very interesting question.

[JVS]

11. Are you familiar with Durkheim's work on suicide?

I think there might be a similar thing going on here as far as adherence to social norms. In this case you have the rich who are independent and secure enough to ignore society's regulations, and then the poor who are alienated from the society enough not to pay heed either.

[yardwork]

15. Yes, I am familiar with his work and I think you have a point.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. It's A Silly Way To Slice It.

You have to combine multiple groups and in the end it equates to over 60% of the electorate. Of course the middle class would likely have been the largest part of the passage since the majority of voters are middle class. Slicing it that way doesn't accomplish anything.

In order to make headway and progress, different REAL subgroups need to be identified. That can be done by age, with HUGE positive future hopes within the youth community based on their no percentage, and it can also be done by race. Whites contributed 4% to the 'no' side, while blacks contributed 4% to the 'yes' side, even though they are only 1/6th the size of the white group. That is definitely statistically meaningful and definitely a target group that would need to identified as needing influence in order for progress to be made.

As far as blame, blame should go to ANYONE who voted yes. There is much work to be done amongst ALL subgroups. But identified the largest single group in which progress could be substantial, is not a bad exercise.

[JVS]

12. It's not so silly.

This combining of multiple groups is merely lumping together what is approximately sextiles.

[WarbirdForObama]

10. For all of us

straight, white, psuedo middle class males ages 40-50 who Voted NO on Prop 8, can we maybe, instead of trying to zero in on who to blame, MAYBE refocus our efforts on finding a way to DEFEAT this Bigoted, Discriminitory, Religious Wedge Piece of Shit, and keep it from being implemented????

Seriously!

Equal Rights is more than just a catchy slogan to be tossed around.

Thankfully, there are still 3 million outstanding Absentee & Provisional ballots left to be counted.

But, in the interim, the suit filed today to stop it is one step in the right direction.

What other avenues could we be looking at to make Bigoted Shit like Prop 8 be what they should be, disgraceful relics of the past????

[Liberal_in_LA]

13. Yes, I think Blacks are only 6% of the CA population.

[ContinentalOp]

19. According to CNN exit polls they were 10% of the total voters.

Check out my post #18 below. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4387496#4387968

[AndyTiedye]

14. It is Hard to Make Any Sense Out of Those Numbers

OK, so the rich and the poor are the least homophobic, while the working/middle classes are more so.
All of which is muddied even further by the wildly differing cost of living in different parts of the state, with the more liberal generally being more expensive.

[frogmarch]

16. I think religion is to blame. n/t

[Cleita]

17. I'm blaming the churches for spreading this bigotry.

I think the guilty ones should lose their tax free status for trying to influence an election from the pulpit

[ContinentalOp]

18. Here's a little quick math I did using the CNN exit poll.

Assuming 970,000 black voters, 1,746,000 Latino voters and 6,111,000 white voters... 3,116,610 whites, 925,380 Latinos, and 679,000 African Americans voted yes on 8 and it passed by only 478,169 votes (5,319,905 to 4,841,736).

If black and Latino voters had voted on 8 in the same percentages as white voters (49% for, 51% against), that would have been 890,460 Latino "yes" votes (a 34,920 difference), and 475,300 black "yes" votes (a 203,700 difference).

Flipping those 238,620 votes would have meant 5,081,285 yes votes and 5,080,356 no votes and 8 would have passed by a shockingly slim 929 vote margin!

So while white voters obviously voted "yes" on 8 in far greater numbers than black and Latino voters, it's hard to deny that the rate of support for 8 among those groups helped push 8 over the top.

To summarize:
If black and Latino voters had voted on 8 in the same percentages as white voters, 8 would have only passed with a 929 vote margin.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. I blame pro-discrimination voters

And the religoin they pretend to follow.
I also blame in part the California syndrome. They don't get up and fight because they are so sure California is the capital of Progressive thinking. I had a hard time getting anyone to take action on 8. They thought it had no chance. A subset of that is the organizers of the No On 8 campaign, who also did not realize the vicious level of politics they were facing, and acted far too civil to even look like they intened to win.
It is also very sad to me to see the black vote go as it did, having watched almost every black man I knew in the 80 drop dead before the 90's, having watched the infection rate for HIV continue to climb, always lead by 'monogomous' black women, made terminal by the hubby's need to live a life of lies. I'm sorry, but those who will suffer the most from this legalized discrimination will not be me and my friends, it will be GLBT poor people, minority people most of all. And the women married to men on the DL will continue to become infected and die, for the sake of a pretense of religiousity. That is in fact, sad stuff. And it is real as real can be. Stats and the actions of others do not change those facts. They just don't.
It is not about blame and which group is more or less responsible, it is about how deeply sad it is to know that no progress has been made in 20 years of needless death. What more, in the name of love? What more?

[Jed Dilligan]

22. Blame the old

Vote by Age
Total
Yes
No



18-29 (20%)

39%

61%





30-44 (28%)

55%

45%






45-64 (36%)

54%

46%






65 and Older (15%)

61%

39%

Someday soon, the demographics will change. Progressives too often forget: death is on our side!