The doomsayers here were wrong- as they were in 2006.

[cali]

Just want to point out that all the people here claiming that no way would bush/cheney ever let this election take place, were flat and predictably wrong. All the dire predictions of martial law were wrong. And that was clear as well.

And although the next 2 and 1/2 months will be fraught with danger, Obama will be sworn in on Jan. 20th. bush and cheney will leave.

And encroaching fascism in this country has been dealt a blow.

[Lerkfish]

1. happy to have been wrong about that.

[OKNancy]

2. Yup.

What will be the next over-the-top pronouncement?
I predict: Obama is a tool of the right and he has sold out.

[Kahuna]

3. This is what happens when the people rise up and say no more to

the fascists. This was a smart and timely movement that wouldn't have been possible if buscho and the repukes had not been colossal eff-ups. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!

[raccoon]

4. Thanks for posting this. It's easy to give up hope and assume the worst will happen,

as so much bad stuff has happened in the last 8 years.

Let's celebrate the good stuff! :toast:

[Two Americas]

18. this is how we celebrate?

Bashing other Dems and stirring up the hard feelings?

Justifiable fear about the opposition is not the same as "giving up hope." In fact, the election results may well be largely credited to the "doomsayers" raising the alarm over the last 8 years.

I think that for some defeating the "doomsayers" within the party was a higher priority than defeating the right wingers. There is a lot of work ahead. I cannot see how the election results represent a victory for the "don't worry be happy" crowd over the "doomsayers." How close to doom do we need to come before we stop bashing the "doomsayers?" We already came as close to doom as I ever want to see again.

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. !

:thumbsup:

[Dhalgren]

5. Unfortunately, the jury is still out.

American fascism is not predicated on a particular leader or a particular party, it is based on Corporations and Empire - both of these are still going strong last I looked. President Obama will now be judged by his actions and his reactions, by his leadership and his management of affairs. Remember, Lyndon Johnson was a Democrat and a very, very liberal Democrat; he was also an Imperial, corporatist, war-monger, as well. Time will tell where we go from here...

[cali]

6. I simply said that encroaching fascism had been dealt a blow

didn't say that it was a death blow.

And the point of my OP was simply that those (many) here who predicted martial law and bush/cheney holding on to power, were wrong. I said so repeatedly, and was thoroughly bashed for saying it. Well, I was right.

[Dhalgren]

12. Yes, you were right...so far...

n/t

[LanternWaste]

23. those dystopic, post-apocolyptic, civil-war, fan-boy fantasies...

Ahhh.... those dystopic, post-apocolyptic, civil-war, fan-boy fantasies born of badly authored hack science-fiction writers just will not go quietly into that good night, will they...?


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Dhalgren]

26. Way to celebrate Obama's victory!

Tear down other Democrats! Way to go!

[LanternWaste]

27. It's much better than holding...

My celebration (although it's not really, of course-- but I can see why it better validates you to state it as such) of tearing down irrelevant and invalid fears seems much more productive than holding onto those same irrelevant and invalid fears...

[Two Americas]

33. irrelevant and invalid?

We have chronically been playing catch up from the moment the Bush campaign started in 2000 and dramatically underestimating the danger.

Complacency and denial were a much bigger problem than doomsaying ever was.

[LanternWaste]

36. Obviously not-- we won last night.

"Complacency and denial were a much bigger problem than doomsaying ever was."

Obviously not-- we won last night. And the only Martial Law standing between Obama and the Oval Office on that sweet day in early January will be in people's fantasies...



The only civil wars that will be fought in this country will be on your console gaming systems...

[Two Americas]

37. strange

One would hope that the win would soothe the savage beast for a little while.

The loss of civil liberties and growing police state is no joking matter, and we are not out of the woods yet. Would you actually claim that the alarmists have been a bigger problem than complacency and denial over the last 8 years?

I thought defeating the right wingers was the goal, not looking for yet more excuses to beat up on our own.

[LanternWaste]

39. Alarmist, complacency and denial are subjective

Alarmist, complacency and denial are subjective-- based on the perceptions and biases of the individual making the claim. Agree with that person and of course you must be right. Disagree with that person an of course you must be "beating up your own".

From where I sit, had complacency been such the dramatic problem as you advertise, I'm afraid we wouldn't have witnessed the historic night on Tues.

[Two Americas]

42. think about it

How many times have people posted here during the Bush years lamenting the ignorance and complacency of the public.

The "doomsayers" played a critical and essential role in alerting the public to the dangers of the right wing, and that ;ed to the recent victory. The victory does not mean that there was no problem, it means we are making progress in the fight against the
The mandate the public just delivered is NOT saying "everything is fine, and the alarmists on the Left were wrong" is it? Quite the opposite.

[arcadian]

21. Last time I checked they still have almost three months left.

I won't sleep soundly til Marine 1 lifts up off the south lawn and they are gone for good.

[Two Americas]

32. sure

Yes, you were right about some things. But that does not make others wrong. Your assumption that those who were more alarmist than you were are your enemy is not be true. Also, we cannot know yet that this election represents what you are claiming it to represent. Time will tell.

It is an extremely positive development that so many people have turned away from the extreme right wing and rejected it. That is what has happened. That does not make you right and others wrong. In fact, I can speak from direct personal experience in the rural Midwest and say that it was the alarmists warning about the dangers of the right wing that caused people to vote Democratic, not any great mass conversion to yuppie upscale liberalism or love for the centrist party leadership.

So I think I will declare victory for the doomsayers. That makes as much sense as your claim.

[BeFree]

7. Yeah

Makes ya wonder about people who are willing to throw under the bus folks who can see both the past and the future.

We're not done with the facism by any stretch of cali's imagination. And such pronouncements as hers only tend to divide us and fracture our efforts to climb above then pee down on those who would make slaves of us.

[cali]

13. oh please. one more time: We dealt a blow to encroaching fascism last night

never said it was a death blow. And sorry, my op was hardly pissing on anyone and nothing compared to the disgusting shit that got thrown at me for saying the predictions of martial law and bushco infinitum were bullshit. I was called a collaborator and worse.

Just pointing out that those pronouncements were flat wrong. deal with it.

[BeFree]

16. Don't be so thin skinned

Maybe you are a novice at realpolitk.

You can't take this personal. If you are wrong, folks are gonna nail you. And you are wrong to jump to a conclusion and claim the storm is over. Its not. You don't have all the answers, so stop acting like you do.

[Two Americas]

31. not really

No election in and of itself could stop fascism.

"People who live in glass houses..." comes to mind in regard to your complaints about how you have been treated.

[pampango]

34. Fascism "stopped"? No, but "dealt a blow" as stated in the OP? Yes.

Will there be future challenges from fascism (and other "isms")? Sure. This is not the end of history, just a successful round in the fight.

Enjoy Obama's election for the monumental achievement that it is, but keep a perspective of the enduring fight ahead of us.

[Two Americas]

35. sure

But it is an effect, not a cause. People voted Democratic because they had rejected the extreme right wing. They rejected the right wing in large part because the doomsayers did their work.

I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying that we "doomsayers" are not wrong. We are both right (strange and new thing for Democrats, no doubt lol.)

I say we start a lovefest here and get along for oh, say, 48 hours lol. I will start.

"Cali is a wonderful DUer and Democrat, and has contributed much to the community. It is wonderful today to put aside past differences and express appreciation and gratitude for the contributions we have all made to the effort to deal the right wingers a telling blow."

[zeemike]

8. Well I am happy to eat crow

Not that I predicted martial law or any of that stuff, but after the last 8 years it is easy to believe the worst considering how the media is and how much power the right wheelded...
But that crow tastes pretty dam good to me right now.

[NNN0LHI]

9. When are we attacking Iran?

:rofl:

[JHB]

10. Before we rflol on that...

...let's see how close the Bushies really came to doing it, and whether exposure of the possibility brushed them back or not.

Finding out should be doable now, provided Obama doesn't repeat Clinton's "not on our radar" error.

[Dhalgren]

14. Well, candidate Obama said he was not opposed to attacking Iran,

so maybe you should ask the President elect? And ask him about invading Pakistan while you're at it.

Look, this is a great time for Democrats and it is a long time coming, let's not start denigrating Democrats over unimportant things. Everyone should just savor this morning without picking fights...

[comtec]

11. but consider this.... what if we had not been doom sayers ... like in '04

We were complacent in '04, I was. I assumed that after 9/11 and seeing what a fucking MORON * is, that people would naturally vote for Kerry.
I did not foresee the new and improved vote-theft machine that the GOP had become.

I was not able to realize that the "election protections laws" were just a sham, a scam to take our fundamental rights as voters and citizens from us. few of us could.

had there been more of a demands for better election safety, and no black boxes, we might have won 04 and this would be kerry's 2nd term.

I'm more than happy, PROUD to eat crow. Can you imagine how happy I am to be wrong about this? Probably not, I live in Europe. I am face to face with the IRAQI PEOPLE who have lost their families, friends, and lives (in the metaphysical sense) who have had to up root EVERYTHING, often with just the clothes on their back, and move to Europe to survive.

You can not imagine the SHAME we expats go through here when we meet one for the fine people.
I think what hurts (me anyway) the MOST.... is they understand. They understand living under a dictator :cry: A DICTATOR!

For the first time in years I don't feel ashamed of my country, I don't feel embarrassed to BE an American.

So pass the crow, I want an EXTRA LARGE portion :)

[Two Americas]

15. good grief

Cali, can we all be happy for just one day?

People who warn about tyranny are not "wrong" when it doesn't happen, any more than people who suggest we drive more carefully are wrong when no accidents happen.

[BeFree]

17. Yeah

Its like when a teenager drives her first thousand miles and begins claiming they are the world's best driver.

[Two Americas]

19. there is a long way to go yet

I thought we elected Democrats to get to work and get the job done, not to declare "mission accomplished" and pat ourselves on the back, let alone thumb our noses at and mock our fellow Democrats for sounding the alarm these last few years.

[BeFree]

20. but we're moving

there is a clear and present danger as we travel this road. The last thing we need is to put blinders on whilst blaming others for having vision of the road which lies ahead.

There are two Americas. The one that would crush the people whenever they can, and the one that works together with other citizens with respect for diversity and different opinions.

[Two Americas]

29. beyond that

Beyond respect for diversity and different opinions - economic justice and equality of opportunity, best achieved by rebuilding the public infrastructure and protecting the public resources.

Paraphrasing Dr. King - "I don't care whether or not someone likes me, so long as they do not have the power to harm me."

We "like" our pets, after all, and certainly the liberal approach of love and kindness is superior to the conservative approach of fear and punishment, but so long as human beings are still being treated worse than our pets, tolerance for diversity and different opinions is woefully insufficient.

[cobalt1999]

22. The extremest freepers are now making the same claims.

Some people on both sides lack common sense.

[pampango]

40. My guess is that freeper conspiracy theorists will predict that Obama will give our national defense

secrets to Al Queda and the Taliban or establishing Sharia law in the US, since he is a closet Islamic terrorist himself.

When nothing like that ever happens, they can, when called on their erroneous prediction, claim that they deserve the credit because they alerted everyone to the danger thus preventing Obama from carrying forward with his nefarious plans.

I fully expect irrational conspiratorial predictions and subsequent rationalizations from the freepers of the world, but not from fellow DUers, though, as you say, it does happen.

[hfojvt]

24. also the dire predictions about stolen elections and stolen votes

Which makes 2004 even more disturbing.

[surrealAmerican]

25. ... and I bet there's nobody happier about it than they are.

Pessimists WANT to be wrong.

[lame54]

28. I admit it I was wrong...

Thank-Fucking-God

[aikoaiko]

38. tinfoil hattery be gone.

[Chemical Bill]

41. Sorry, I think you're confused.

I never thought for a minute that */Cheney were in charge. That would be a few ultra rich whose names I don't know. The candidates with the most progressive ideas were marginalized from the start, by the corporate media. My opinion is that repugs would have stolen this selection but for the lack of ground troops willing to commit election fraud. They had no more Blackwell in Ohio or Harris in Florida. But just as in 2006, there are senate races where the outcome was most likely effected by fraud (like Franken's). It will take a lot of effort to repair the constitution. I'm not calming down just yet, thank you.

Bill