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If the GOP collapses in its present form, what will replace it?

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:34 AM
Original message
Poll question: If the GOP collapses in its present form, what will replace it?
The GOP is on track for an epic failure on election day, in part because it has finally come to the point where they can't have swing voters AND their base religious extremists and violent know-nothings.

So what's going to rise up out of the ashes?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. other
:D




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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. that was too big a compliment to Bush and WAY too big to McCain--more like McPinochet or McFranco
all the fascism without the fashion sense of the nazis.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. You're right.
Edited on Mon Nov-03-08 02:43 AM by Swamp Rat
Anyway, they are all gonna be raptured, so the fundie wing should disappear. :D




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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. that photo is pretty accurate
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. LOL
That picture captures Herr Johnny's "greatness and the grandeur" for sure!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. What does this capture?:
:D




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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. A double decker LOL!
Edited on Mon Nov-03-08 02:59 AM by Hubert Flottz
A Big McFührer Attack? I'd never noticed John's tongue hanging out like that, until he started cold trailing Sarah around all over the country.

"OHHHHHHhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHH YES, YES, YEEEEEEES, Johnny Boy...would you like some fries with this burger?"
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. That's beautiful Swamp! n/t
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. NSDAP
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Nothing.
GOP isn't going to collapse in its present form. the "base" will shrink down, a more "moderate" voice will rise up, and they'll be bad like a bad disease.

Mark.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. #2 with reservations
The "church lady" faction is not going to diminish and is not going to shut up.
There's still a lot of money to be made by exploiting religious fanaticism, and
as long as there are Jerry Falwells around to live in mansions, drive Cadillacs
and fly first class at the expense of poor believers who see them on GOD-TV, these
people will have a say somewhere.

My prediction:

I do think that the Jake Javits-Nelson Rockefeller wing of the Republican Party
will wake up and see that the Karl Roves and Sarah Palins did them no good in the
long run, and will move to marginalize them, but they won't take it lying down.
They will re-coalesce behind some kind of charismatic, manipulative Joel Osteen
type of leader, and become way more of a thorn in the side of the re-formed mainstream
Republican party than Nader ever was to us, the 2000 disaster notwithstanding.
If we were a parliamentary democracy, this would spell trouble, as they could form
a coalition of convenience that would be a formidable opponent in Congress. But
under our form of government, it means only a fractured opposition that won't be
much of a threat until one of the factions gets re-assimilated into the other, as
it was in 2002 and 2004. The extremists won that one, but it's not at all sure, given
the looming debacle (for them) tomorrow, that it would go the same way next time.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I agree with all your analysis except the Nader part. The votes he took from Gore were swamped by
felon voter purges in Florida and other GOP dirty tricks.

Democrats blaming him is like blaming an unarmed pedestrian for a drive by shooting.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Agreed that electoral fraud perpetrated by Jeb and Harris were large factors, but
72000 votes for Nader when the state was decided by 527 votes do not
qualify as "innocent bystander" to me. Nader blaming Gore's loss on
Gore alone merely reinforced my view on that score. We'll have agree
to disagree on that one, but it was a peripheral point to my post anyway.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. 527 supposes that all the votes were counted, and they were not.
A consortium of newspapers went back and finished the recount and found that under any standard, Gore won Florida.

The Supreme Court and Jeb gave the state to Bush, not Nader.
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Holy Damn Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. Replacing the GOP
Edited on Mon Nov-03-08 03:48 AM by Holy Damn
Do we really wanna know?
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
15. depending on how bad
the outcome of the election will be for them and internal GOP reaction will determine the course

most likely there will be some pain and turmoil. I suspect there will be a division between the neocons and the more moderate republicans. What it looks like in the coming two years as they look towards the 2010 midterm will depend on which group retains or gains control.

If the neocons retain control - look for more of the same rabid rhetoric (probably worse) until they become even more extreme. I suspect they will be looking for their own version of Obama, and rally around Bobby Jindal (http://www.nriinternet.com/Section3Who/WhoUSA/Bobby%20Jinal/indexBobyjindal.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal)

If the moderate republicans gain control, the party will move return to it's basic roots.
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exboyfil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Republican Party move towards more fiscally responsible party
My hope is that the Republican party moves towards a more
fiscally responsible party that does not practice the crony
capitalism that I have seen conducted in Washington by both
parties.  I think it is appalling what Frankenstein creature
that Paulson has created.  To get only 5% preferred stock when
the Brits and Buffett got significantly more percentage for
similar deals shows that the Treasury is just a method for
funnelling money to Paulson's golf buddies.  The AGI deal was
another example.

We need to get the savings rate up in the U.S., reduce our
national debt and deficit, and reduce our trade deficit.  We
need to make our citizen's labor more valuable by enhanced
productivity and better protection of our Intellectual
Property internationally.  We need to eliminate our dependence
on imported oil - it is not a market question but more of a
question of national security.  I am in favor of a large
tariff on imported oil.  We need to consider the importation
of sugar based ethanol (an excellent source for this would be
the Carribean).  Electric cars are a nice thought if they can
be combined with some clean/reliable method for producing the
electricity (almost every green plan currently proposed has
significant environmental and reliability issues).  It should
be remembered though that the 150,000,000? cars in the U.S.
now run on fossil fuel.  I think we are going to be seeing
80/20 gas/ethanol for quite some time yet even if we converted
to selling only green cars tomorrow.  A really nice market
would be found for individuals who can figure out how to
convert gasoline powered vehicles to 100% ethanol or CNG.

Folks need to recognize that the cost of energy input has an
important bearing on how competitive our industries will be. 
Over time this has national and security implications.  I have
looked closely at the solar plan being proposed (effectively
covering half of Arizona with solar panels), and I cannot
believe that electricity will not be twice as expensive as
with coal fired plants.  What happens when we green while
China continues to pay half as much for electricity.  Also,
what are the environmental implications of so many solar
panels?  Right now lots of companies are trying to set up
solar farms in the Southwest but are experiencing continuing
headaches with environmental laws.  Are we going to bigfoot
aside those laws in preference for green energy?

Windmills 

We need to decouple health insurance from our employers. 
Obama wants to make the Federal plan available to all - I
think that this is an excellent idea and the starting point
for the conversion.  These portable plans should move towards
universal coverage by being a floor for every citizen to have
access.  Eventually I would like to see a German style plan of
portability.  I think any plan should be a high deductibile
plan with tax credits assisting low/no income workers. 
Hopefully with the efficiencies discussed by Obama, a typical
family plan can be reduced from $12,000/yr. to $8,000/yr with
a 5,000/yr deductible.  Currently my employer effectively pays
my premiums for this plan into an HSA ($1400), and I fully max
my HSA.  At the start of the year I know that my medical
deductible is covered.  Since I get to keep the HSA at the end
of the year, I am motivated to only see the doctor if I am
truly sick and feel that the doctor can help the situation. 
The plan pays for annual physicals for all family members
which I think is essential for any plan.  I would think that
Obama would move towards every employer be required to pay
somewhere in the neighborhood of $3000-$4000 per employee
(maybe best handled by a payroll tax applied to everyone like
the Medicare tax).  I do not see a reason why small employers
should be exempted.  I would see all the union plans (which
are typically better than the salaried plan described above
for large employers like mine) be moved into a federal plan as
discussed above.  I think we need to recognize the fact that
Obama's health care plan will effectively freeze drug
development in place, and the drugs we currently have will be
priced down to their variable marginal cost plus a small
profit incentive to continue to even produce them.  Current
manufacturers may elect to sell their IP to 3rd world
producers with better variable costs to produce.  The drug
companies will close their R&D departments.  If trials on
new drugs need to be conducted, then the federal government
will have to conduct them (along with the R&D to get them
to the trial stage).

We may have to eventually think about euthanasia and denying
medical care to older people.  This is already happening in
Western Europe which is the template that Obama is following
for his health care plan.  If you truly run the numbers we
cannot continue to provide Medicare/Medicaid at current
levels.  For those on Medicaid medical care is free and is
consumed at irrational rates.  I am not saying that I like
this situation or that it is right, but studies need to be
done to determine where the money is going to come from if we
elect to continue our current Medicare/Medicaid approach.

On the social side.  I would like the Republicans to agree
that nationally all partnerships of two consenting adults be
recognized and given all rights/responsibilities formerly
reserved for man/woman marriages.  Over time the word marriage
should be removed from state licenses and replaced with civil
unions.  In our modern society marriage should be reserved for
an individual's religious belief system.

Sorry I can't go as far as Obama on abortion.  Babies are
viable in the 2nd and 3rd trimester and how can any individual
say they are not conscious and human at that point?  I am
strongly in favor improvements in birth control methods, and,
if the school wants to teach the mechanics of prevention, so
be it.  I would like to see the school wait, except for
teaching about molestation prevention, to teach these
mechanics in the 7th grade.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. kill old people, but save babies?
We may have to eventually think about euthanasia and denying medical care to older people. This is already happening in Western Europe which is the template that Obama is following for his health care plan.

---snip---

Sorry I can't go as far as Obama on abortion. Babies are viable in the 2nd and 3rd trimester and how can any individual say they are not conscious and human at that point? I am strongly in favor improvements in birth control methods, and, if the school wants to teach the mechanics of prevention, so be it. I would like to see the school wait, except for teaching about molestation prevention, to teach these mechanics in the 7th grade.


.....

excuse me but :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Yikes.
And welcome to DU.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
16. I agree with Krugman on this- Republicans will be even more radicalized
Edited on Mon Nov-03-08 05:00 AM by depakid
after this election.

You might think, perhaps hope, that Republicans will engage in some soul-searching, that they’ll ask themselves whether and how they lost touch with the national mainstream. But my prediction is that this won’t happen any time soon.

Instead, the Republican rump, the party that’s left after the election, will be the party that attends Sarah Palin’s rallies, where crowds chant “Vote McCain, not Hussein!” It will be the party of Saxby Chambliss, the senator from Georgia, who, observing large-scale early voting by African-Americans, warns his supporters that “the other folks are voting.” It will be the party that harbors menacing fantasies about Barack Obama’s Marxist — or was that Islamic? — roots.

Why will the G.O.P. become more, not less, extreme? For one thing, projections suggest that this election will drive many of the remaining Republican moderates out of Congress, while leaving the hard right in place.

For example, Larry Sabato, the election forecaster, predicts that seven Senate seats currently held by Republicans will go Democratic on Tuesday. According to the liberal-conservative rankings of the political scientists Keith Poole and Howard Rosenthal, five of the soon-to-be-gone senators are more moderate than the median Republican senator — so the rump, the G.O.P. caucus that remains, will have shifted further to the right. The same thing seems set to happen in the House.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/03/opinion/03krugman.html?hp
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. this
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dhpgetsit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. The GOP will continue
They will continue to present themselves as the party of conservative culture, while painting everything liberals embrace a "Communism, Socialism, Marxism, Globalism, Fascism, Childish naivete, Dangerous, and generally un-American".
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. "the Democrats will become the business party,
and a new second party will coalesce further left"

Interesting that this option is getting the most votes.

Hmm...
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jacksonian Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. i voted other
their monied interests will play ball with Dems, leaving the RW wackos to be the GOP. And they will wallow around for a while searching for opposition footing before recreating themselves as a new brand. i would expect some 3rd party action, but more populist/libertarian in nature.

For the foreseeable future, the GOP will always be run by RW fundies looking for better lipstick.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
25. the GOP is going to lose a presidential election. isn't collapsing, or anything near it.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. The KKK
n/t
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codjh9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. The Theocratic Republic of Dixie, Inc.
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cobalt1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
28. They'll lick their wounds and rebrand themselves.
It may take 8-12 years but they'll be back, then the Democrats will be licking their wounds for a few years, then the republicans will be back, etc. etc. etc.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
29. The Corporatists will be sure to invent something for the sheepies to rally behind.




There will be a lot of flag waving and a bogus 'support the troops' pukefest but the real
agenda will be to ensure bottom line profits while taking more away from the working class.




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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. Other ......
The Fungelicals will tell the rest of the party to go fuck themselves. They will form their own party and then never be heard from again. Theocracy is a dead concept and many of their followers will start, more and more, to resemble ordinary Roman Catholics (**NOT** the Catholic League's Bill Donohue flavor of right wing whack job Catholics). Religion will fade from American politics for a while.

The NeoCons will be out in the cold .... naked. They will form into one blue, shivering mass of frozen flesh that would stink when the thaw comes. Mercifully, they will be sent to the shitpile of history before they thaw.

The Rockefeller and the Goldwater wings will come together. Reason and an intellectually honest ideology will rule the party once more. Within ten years they will be again a serious force. Bill Buckley's kid will be rehired .... with a raise ..... for being on the forefront of the new movement.

Rove and Reed and DeLay and Gingrich and Putnam and Blount and that whole whacked out band of loonies will be part of the neocon freeze out.
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