What kind of twisted motherfucker lets an 8-year-old fire an Uzi?

[Redstone]

PS: The eight-year-old boy is dead.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/27/boy.shoots.himself.ap/index.html

Redstone

[Aqaba]

1. Morans aginst muslins... thats who

[madeline_con]

2. An 8 year old lost control of an Uzi.

Who could have seen THAT coming?! Idiots! :banghead:

[msongs]

3. didnt want his son's amendment 2 rights violated. mission accomplished (sad tho) nt

[spanone]

4. 'self-inflicted accidental shooting'

eight year old with an uzi is a crime

[amdezurik]

7. wait for the lawyer for the parents

who are grieving but were probably standing by grinning before it happened, who will have the deep pockets?

[NC_Nurse]

5. A stupid one.

[amdezurik]

6. way to much gun for the kid

8 year old's can safely use a gun range and target shoot. it really is fun. but when you start talking assault weapons, dear god , you have a hand on him and the other ON THE FUCKING GUN if you want them to see what it's you don't just turn a kid loose with it! that is just plain criminal world-class fucking stupid.

[immoderate]

9. Agreed. An air gun or a .22 at a range, under professional supervision is conceivable.

This was just stupidity. Except it's normal for a freeper.

--IMM

[amdezurik]

15. that's what I was using around that age

at least my dad or grand-dad (ret. USAF Col, sharpshooter) right next to me or one of the trainers

[Redstone]

22. Well, it's claimed that the father (a DOCTOR, for God's sake) did "have a hand on him."

Fat lot of fucking good THAT did.

Eight years old. Firing a fucking Uzi. And NOBODY will go to jail.

Redstone

[uppityperson]

60. Read today that he was getting his camera to take a picture.

No hand on him. It is sick.

[malaise]

8. I hope his dad is happy with the result

of his decision.

[AlCzervik]

10. why does a person need an uzi?

my dad had me at the dunes shooting when i was 8, never anything like that gun though.

[MrSlayer]

12. It's a good jammy for beginners,

You just spray the area.

[Indenturedebtor]

21. I have no idea. Personally I get my kicks with hand grenades

and my Acme bio-weapons lab.

Nothing is more fun than creating hazardous micro-organisms in my basement. You can really bring down a lot of deer with some viruses.

:sarcasm:

[snake in the grass]

42. Acme bio-weapons lab

Please, I want one!

[Indenturedebtor]

44. Just remember: whatever you do don't point it at the roadrunner :P n/t

[snake in the grass]

49. I'll keep it in mind, thanks!

[krispos42]

46. Nowadays? financial investment

The full-auto firearms registry was closed back in 1986. Full-auto guns used to be readily available, new, as long as you registered it with the Treasury Department and paid a $200 transfer fee. This is on top of the cost of the gun.

Then they closed the registry, fixing the amount of legal full-auto guns in private hands. With supply fixed and demand up, their prices soared. Now they run the better part of $10,000 for a decent AK-47 or M-16. Military machine guns, like WW2 collectables, are now going for $30,000 or so. A genuine 6-barreled, 6,000-round-per-minute Gatling gun goes for about $280,000.



That Micro-Uzi is probably worth close to the price of my new car, a 2005 Subaru Impreza.

[NorCalDem]

89. DON'T YOU DARE QUESTION MY 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHT!!

/sarcasm

[CreekDog]

11. a really smart idiot

director of emergency medicine?

let's his kid fire a loaded uzi?

i'm almost afraid to view the rest of this thread for fear of seeing rationalizations of the phenomenally bad judgement this father had.(on edit: i'm glad my fears were unfounded in this thread).

yes, i have fired a gun, even as a kid, but nowhere near 8 years old and not anything equivalent of an uzi and not without someone showing me what to do right before.

[dysfunctional press]

34. soon to be FORMER director of emergency medicine...

would be my guess.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

66. It would have to be loaded to fire.

Just to be clear.

David

[MichaelHarris]

13. why

do gun nuts hate pumpkins?

[flvegan]

14. The kind that lets a 9 year old handle a Thompson.

Idiots, the lot of them.

[Redstone]

27. I actually fired a Thompson at 10 years old. Idiots, the lot of them, as you say for having

let me do that. Even though the occasion was shooting rats at the town dump, and the TSMG had a Cutts compensator at the end of the barrel, my skinny-assed little self ended up punching the last five or six rounds in an absolutely vertical direction.

Some SERIOUSLY defective adults, to have let me do that. I could have been that kid.

That fucking moron of a father. I hope he re-lives the nightmare of today for the rest of his life.

Redstone

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

67. It would have been much more difficult to do with a Thompson.

Thompsons are considerably longer weapons than Uzis and are usually fired from the shoulder.

David

[AzNick]

71. Both weapons fire .45 ACP and it kicks hard

I never shot it but have friends who did.

All I even fired that was full auto was a Famas (I served in the French military) and it's about half the size in caliber and already it kicks.

A kid should only shoot air gun or plinking gun. Even if a .22 LR is lethal at close range, chances of the guy to buck and shoot you in the face are null, even at 8.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

74. I thought Mini Uzis were chambered in 9mm.

My only point was that it would be more difficult with a Thompson. Not that it was a good idea to let a kid fire either one.

David

[AzNick]

75. He was not firing the "Gay Chuck Norris posing with 2 mini-Uzis" type

I think he was shooting the big fat one.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

78. It was reported one place as a Mini-Uzi.

I can't seem to find much technical info in the news clips.

David

[AzNick]

80. It does not matter anyway. Not a kid's toy. Period.

I would never let my kids shoot anything but pellets and paintballs.

When they are teenagers and make the request on their own to go to shooting range, then I will take them.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

81. I agree.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

93. Turns out to have been a Micro Uzi, even a worse decision.

[blue sky at night]

16. sorry about the boy....

but when you play with fire you do get burned. I hate fucking guns, and I don't give a shit what the gun-nuts say...nothing good comes of them. NOTHING. Oh wouldn't you Love to hear that conversation with his wife as he explains how much "fun" they were having until jr. blew his head off. Bet that marriage is over.



Remember gun-nuts, it's only fun until your kid, wife, friend, husband, pastor, teacher, doctor, dentist, police officer, student, secretary, boss, lover, son, daughter, father, mother, team-mate blows their head off.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Redstone]

23. Nah, they're laying low on this thread, but going apeshit in some others.

Redstone

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

68. No need to lay low, almost everyone agrees.

Stupid people shouldn't own guns. Stupid people shouldn't own ladders. Stupid people shouldn't own cars. Stupid people shouldn't own nail guns. Stupid people shouldn't have kids. Stupid people shouldn't vote. Unfortunately there is no law against being stupid.

David

[Captiosus]

41. My take on it, and I'm not a gun nut, though I do own two

Is that the extreme view of complete gun banning will never work. Guns are a Pandora's Box. They're already out there and no amount of banning them will ever completely rid society of them.

But there has to be some responsibilities that go along with the rights. We've already added legal age responsibilities for purchase. And background checks. But neither of these go far enough.

There should be mandatory safety and training lessons for all first time buyers. There should be an age minimum on handling a firearms: 10+ for .22 long rifle, 14+ for anything else. Both with parental supervision at all times. True assault weapons should never be available to the public (no one needs a fully automatic SMG or AK or M16).

These are all things my late father would have vehemently disagreed with me upon. He was a true gun "nut". However, I'm a firm believer that with rights come responsibilities and if people want the right to own firearms, there should be some firm responsibilities along with it.

Of course, you're also talking to someone who honestly believes we live in such a bass ackwards society that we make people get a license to drive but let any schmuck get behind the rudder of a boat or on a jet-ski. Never understood that either.

[TxRider]

56. You would probably consider me a gun nut...

I do own several firearms including a couple of assault rifles.. And fired my first gun at about that kid's age, but it was a .22 single shot pistol.

This kids dad is just stupid, period. There is no excuse really for giving a kid a full auto weapon like that one at that age, period.

I would say hang him from the nearest tree, but I expect that he realizes how stupid his actions were, and it will probably haunt him badly for the rest of his days.

[Cresent City Kid]

18. For the record

Obama for asualt weapon ban.
McCain: against.

I heard this just this morning on the news when they were fact checking positions on gun control.

[aikoaiko]

28. Of course, even an AWB wound not have stopped this accident.

Full auto UZIs are a regulated Class 3 weapons that are unaffected by any version of the AWB.

[krispos42]

47. Full-auto guns are not covered by any definiation of "assault weapon"

itself an arbitrary and perjorative term.

"Assault weapons" are semi-automatic guns. This Micro-Uzi was a full-auto gun and covered under the 1934 Firearm Control Act. Far more stringently than the expired Clinton ban would, by the way.

[Cresent City Kid]

53. Okay

Thanks for enlightening me on the details (no sarcasm). I assumed an uzi would qualify as an assult weapon. There is still something horribly wrong with this situation.

[krispos42]

54. That is the confusion they prey upon

The same mechanical and ergomonic features that make a military gun desirable and effective are brought to the civilian market is semi-automatic-only form. The mechanicals are reworked to remove the full-auto function.

But externally they look the same.


That AK-47 or AR-15 in your local gun shop is not the same as the military issue ones. They look the same, feel the same, shoot the same ammo, uses the same magazines, and has the same accuracy and reliability.

After all, gun makers work hard at making their simple, reiable, rugged, accurate, ergonomic, etc. Features that everybody wants, right?


These links might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submachine_gun


The Micro-Uzi in question is a submachine gun.

[jmowreader]

58. I really HATE the term "assault weapon" because it doesn't mean jack

In the military we had Assault Rifles, Battle Rifles, Submachineguns and Machineguns.

Assault rifles are weapons like the M-16 and the AK-47. They are designed to fire a cartridge with lower power than the 7.62mm NATO (.308 Winchester) rifle round. They are also selective-fire: single-shot plus multiple-shot, either full auto or three-round burst. If it doesn't have a full-auto setting it's not an assault rifle.

Battle rifles are like assault rifles but they fire cartridges at least as powerful as 7.62mm NATO rounds. The G3 and FN FAL are battle rifles.

A machinegun doesn't have selective fire--it only works in full-auto mode. It fires rifle rounds. A submachinegun is a machinegun that fires pistol-size rounds...sometimes more-potent variants of them, but still pistol-size. (Example: there is a SMG version of the 9mm round because the pistol version won't properly cycle a submachinegun.)

[KitchenWitch]

19. I am fucking sick about this.

Needless tragedy. Kid did not stand a chance.

[Redstone]

24. As would any parent be, unless they're the kind of parent who values guns over kids.

And there ARE those out there.

Redstone

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

69. Plenty that value drugs over kids, material possessions over kids, "me time" over kids.

Plenty of all kinds of bad parents out there.

David

[SeattleGirl]

20. Whatever happened to starting out with a BB gun?

God, that is such a sad story. It also pisses me off. Did the parent who let the boy shoot it not realize that an Uzi is a hell of a lot of gun?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

36. But it's 'all legal and fun'!

And who would think this would be too much for an 8-year old?


(An 8-year-old shot and killed himself with an Uzi submachine gun like the weapon shown here.)

That poor child. :(

[benEzra]

55. No, that's a non-automatic (i.e., fake) Uzi lookalike, I think.

The long barrel is a giveaway, and it's a lookalike of a full-size Uzi anyway.

The gun in the Massachusetts tragedy was a full-auto Micro Uzi--much smaller, far more prone to muzzle flip, and much harder to control, and with much less area for an instructor to hold on:



Particularly if the shoulder stock wasn't extended.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

59. I have no idea... I 'lifted' the pic from the article in the OP.

Regardless...

[benEzra]

90. Reporter/editor probably thought that all "Uzis" are the same. (n/t)

[liberaltrucker]

25. For the record

The Uzi fires the 9mm Parabellum pistol round. Same round as the sidearm of your local police.
Same round as the 9mm Glock LTwife has in the bedside drawer. In trained hands, it's a perfect
round for police, home defense, or close contact combat. However, the recoil, however mild, can't
be controlled by a child. Dr Dad should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[Redstone]

26. Like I said. How you been, LT? Long time, no talk.

Redstone

[liberaltrucker]

30. Busy. What with the election and all

:hi:

LTwife and I are trained in police procedures as to when to use deadly force under Alabama law.
We're not gun nuts. Just know how to use one and pray we don't have to. Having a State Trooper
cousin REALLY helps!

[Redstone]

37. Gotcha right there.

Redstone

[slampoet]

35. This was also a MINI-UZI with LESS control over recoil.

A standard UZI from the 1950-60's had a longer barrel and a forward grip to control the direction better during full auto fire.


The mini-uzi fires the same bullets, but has less control due to less weight and shorter barrel length.


Also the mini-uzi fires at a faster rate of 900+ rounds per minute as compared to the older uzi at 600 rpm.

[lonestarnot]

29. What kind of twisted motherfucker shoots and 8 year old?

[Redstone]

38. Huh?

Redstone

[lonestarnot]

51. The fuckwad that stole that baby from his home, killed his grandmother aunt and cousin.

[uppityperson]

62. Whoever killed that kid is a twisted asshole for sure.

RIP kids.

[burrowowl]

31. I had a friend who was in the Israeli Army

She was around 5' 2" and whenever she fired an UZI she was on her butt, she got exempted from UZI training. WHAT KIND OF IDIOT LETS AN8 YEAR-OLD FIRE A SUBMACHINE GUN1/1/1?!?!?!? Both the Father and Instructor should be put in prison for negligent homicide!

[dysfunctional press]

32. one with a sizable insurance policy on the kid's life?

:shrug:

[Iggo]

33. The guy who wants to tell...

...all his idiot friends, "Look. See? I let my kid shoot one. See? It's totally safe! Fucking liberals!"

[Redstone]

39. BINGO! You win Best Reply, even though there have been many good ones.

Redstone

[Toucano]

40. That's your garden variety twisted mother fucker, I think.

It is truly sickening.

[Lucian]

43. That's a good question.

No eight-year-old should be firing any gun. Not even a BB gun.

[krispos42]

45. Not twisted. But very stupid.

They make .22's for a reason.

[tendtoagree]

48. He should be locked up for life

Whoever let the boy fire the Uzi.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

70. Under what charge?

[TWiley]

50. A Terrorist training a suicide soldier?

Besides, the gun did not kill him. Isn't that their chant? Guns don't kill people? It must have been the Holloween candy.

[madokie]

52. a prison bound one

[Arugula Latte]

57. Um, a dumbass blinded gun freak with the judgment of slime mold?

[Leftist Agitator]

61. Oh, so you finally decided to elucidate the basis of your asinine position.

Bravo.

:sarcasm:

[ibegurpard]

63. The guy who sits next to me at work

Is a certified NRA gun nut.
He thought the father who let his son shoot this gun was nuts.

[-..__...]

64. Oh boo, hoo, hoo..

Look folks!

Another anti-gun screed.

Get a grip pal... this was a simple case of negligence and poor judgment.

The fact that a firearm :scared: was involved is irrelevant.

I swear... you anti-gun folks are one of the sorriest collective lot of paranoid, naive and ignorant posters to frequent this forum.

[depakid]

72. If this sorry set up (run by a police chief) hadn't been legal

the kid would still be alive.

QED.

And it also wouldn't have happened (like so many other incidents) in nations whose people don't have unhealthy obsessions with firearms.

[jakem]

91. is this sarcasm? Irony?

I am trying really hard to give you benefit of the doubt here...

:wtf:

[petronius]

65. Not twisted. Probably not even stupid

The dad wanted to let the boy do something fun (I assume the boy wanted to do it) and he believed that the risks were negligible and controlled. Funny things about risks, however:

1) Everything we do has risk attached, and while we can reduce and assess and control it, risk can never be eliminated. Every safeguard ever invented will fail, eventually.

2) Humans are really bad at assessing risks.

Without knowing a lot more about how this event was run, I doubt any of us can say for sure whether this was a one-in-a-million accident or an act of obvious carelessness. However, neither the fact of the boy firing the uzi, nor even the fatal result, are proof of twistedness, bad parenting, negligence, stupidity, or anything else...

[LisaL]

73. Oh please.

An 8 years old and an automatic weapon. What on Earth could go wrong?
:eyes:

[petronius]

77. We saw what could go wrong

However, the assumption that it was guaranteed or even likely to go wrong, and that the father is ipso facto twisted or negligent, is flawed logic.

[LisaL]

83. Hmm.

"Bob Greenleaf, a former executive board member and member for 44 years of the Sportsman's Club, said either the boy's father or the range officer should be held responsible for the boy's death.

"To allow the boy to hold the gun and shoot it without anyone holding it was not only stupid but criminal negligence - and it should be considered involuntary manslaughter," Greenleaf said. "If it was really important for the child to hold the gun, the adult should have been holding the weapon. The child should have only been able to press the trigger.""


http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/10/28/uzi_recoils_questions_echo/?page=2

Pardon me if I don't agree with you. Let's see: an 8 year old boy and a weapon that is difficult to control.
Again, what can go wrong and who can predict that something could go wrong?
Like Bob said, if the gun had gone sideways, a lot more people could have ended up dead.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ulysses]

79. nice response time, guys.

:)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

82. What guys?

[ulysses]

84. whoever banned shit-for-brains.

:)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

85. How do you know he got banned?

[LisaL]

86. Because of what he posted.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

87. Didn't see it just saw that the post was removed.

[ulysses]

88. saw the tombstone.

For some reason, he doesn't show up in the database any more, though.

[Bombero1956]

92. Local DA is looking at violation of MGL Chapter 140

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/10/accidental_machine_gun_death_o.html?category=Crime+category=Westfield

A criminal investigation is under way in connection with the death of 8-year-old Christopher Bizilj, who accidentally shot himself with a machine gun during a firearms expo Sunday.

"Massachusetts law specifically prohibits furnishing a machine gun to any person under 18," Daniel Vice, senior attorney with the Brady Center, said in a statement. "It is unconscionable that the gun fair allowed and encouraged young children to fire machine guns."

State Rep. Michael Costello, D-Newburyport, co-chairman of the Joint Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security, has announced plans to draft a bill to ban anyone younger than 21 from firing an automatic weapon, according to the Boston Globe.

"No one can possess a machine gun without authority under Chapter 140," Bennett said, adding he has found no lawful authority under Chapter 140, or any other law, which allows an 8-year-old possession of a machine gun, or to be able to fire a machine gun.

The police chief from the neighboring town of Pelham is the contact person for one of the sponsors of the show C.O.P. Firearms and Training of Amherst.