Question Re: Obama tax "welfare"

[dorkulon]

So we've all heard this argument by now: Obama says he'll cut taxes for 95%, but only 60% (or something like that) pay income taxes. Ergo, Obama will send checks to people who don't pay income taxes. This is "welfare."

I know that this ignores payroll taxes, but my question is this: Is it true that Obama plans to send checks, or tax credits, or whatever, to people who don't pay any income tax? I actually wouldn't even be against that; I'm just trying to figure out if the GOP argument is at all based in truth or if it's just a fabricated distortion.

[ColbertWatcher]

1. I think it's mostly a distortion, because everybody pays sales tax whenever they buy anything. n/t

[dorkulon]

2. Well, that's not the question.

Of course everyone pays taxes in some way. The question is this: Is Obama simply going to cut income taxes for those under $250,000, or does he plan to actually give money to people who don't make enough money to pay any income tax? This is specifically regarding income taxes. It's a claim the Repugs are making, and I suspect it is false, but I haven't seen a specific response to this charge yet from the Obama campaign.

[ColbertWatcher]

4. Yes, but the GOPhers are claiming there is this fictional 40% who pay NO taxes.

I believe they started their claim with "people who pay no taxes" to "people who pay no income tax."

Just to cover their asses.

And yes, I agree it is false.

[dorkulon]

6. I agree--it drives me nuts when they make that claim and don't get called on it.

They're always saying that crap on TV about how the the richest 1% or 5% or whatever pay most of the taxes, without specifying they're talking about income tax, which don't even make up half of federal taxes. And no one ever calls them out on it. It's really irresponsible and despicable.

[endthewar]

17. Especially when 2/3s of US businesses pay no taxes at all

and yet McCain keeps crying about the US having too high of a corporate tax rate.

[shadowknows69]

15. A good chunk of that 40% who don't pay taxes

would include their blessed megacorporations wouldn't it? Of course they don't believe that fact. "Tax shelters" are just a myth made up by libruls.

[ColbertWatcher]

19. Right. There numbers are made up, the justifications for the numbers are made up and ...

... other people have to do the real work to figure out what they originally meant!

[Hope And Change]

3. Here`s an article that maybe gives an answer to your question..

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/obama-alters-ta.html

[dorkulon]

5. Thanks.

That's pretty much what I was looking for. :toast:

Seems like they should be making this clearer.

[thunder rising]

7. The most blatent shirkers I've ever seen were white, rural and in Colorado

[thunder rising]

8. There is a work requirement.

Fucking Freepers and their worry that somebody is going to get a few hundred dollars a year if they live in a garbage bin and don't work.

What asshats.

We have beggars here in West Palm Beach .. they are WHITE!

[dorkulon]

9. OK, but the point is McCain is lying about Obama's tax plans.

I understand the subtext of what he's saying is racial, but the larger point is that it's BS anyway.

[thunder rising]

10. Of course, that goes without saying. I thought I'd expand the conversation. :-)

[annabanana]

13. I think the basic point has to be HAMMERED until it breaks

the online ceiling. There are HUGE lies being unchallenged on this vital point everyday on TV and most people don't have the luxury of true information...

I'll merrily expand the conversation after the election.. :)

[LynnTheDem]

11. No; his tax cut plan is geared to 95% of TAXPAYERS.

[annabanana]

14. perZACTly!! This is the tidbit.. the missing nugget of information in Mass Media

right now... and it is doing damage everytime the lie goes unchallenged on the National Stage...

[Romulox]

12. $2.2 TRILLION bailout of Wall Street was sure as hell WELFARE.

Both candidates were falling all over themselves to support that. :eyes:

[KharmaTrain]

16. Typical GOOP Class Warfare Games...

Simple history...the "booosh tax cuts" will expire in 2010...and despite the GOOP having control of both Houses for several years and could have made these cut for the rich permanent, they didn't. If left to "sunset" in 2010, the tax rates would return to where they were during the 90's...and, if your a repugnican, that means a "tax increase". Gramps not only wants to make the booosh cuts permanent, but lower them even further for the higher brackets.

The problem with the boooosh cut is how its devestated tax revenues not just on the Federal level but also on the state level as well. Since most state taxes take their cut after the Federal, when those rates are lowered, so is the money the state can collect and this has led to massive shortfalls all over the country (California is the extreme)...and the only way the states can make up these shortfalls is either by cutting services (most affecting the lower classes) or raising retail and property taxes.

Obama's plan is to restore the old pre-2001 tax levels to those making over $250g a year (I suspect this figure could move down to 200 or even 150) and keep the current rates for the rest...thus the "tax break" since 95% earn less than 250G (a nice number to use as the initial target).

It's Gramps whose talking "tax credits"...that's his healthcare fiasco. He'll give you a $5,000 deduction so you can purchase a $12,000 a year health insurance policy from one of his lobbyists...and then tax the money you pay for that policy. Not a bad scam. Of course, the corporate media (who makes millions from the insurance companies) rarely mention this con game.

The "sending checks" is a strawman game...meant to scare and play the race card. It's to conger images of welfare queens getting checks for having babies.

There's little truth here...all illusions and fear tactics.

[Born_A_Truman]

18. What about retired people who pay income taxes?

Do Republicans consider them on "welfare" because they no longer work?