Questions About Reporting a Pedophile.

[demgurl]

There is a pedophile in my family and everyone seems more than happy to cover for them even though they molested a child in the family. I am positive that if this person is not reported that they will do it again. The parents of the victim are not willing to press charges on behalf of the nine year old.

I feel a moral obligation to report this person but my husband, whose family this is, is against it. Am I legally required to report the pedophile? Even if I do, will the authorities do anything if the parents will not press charges? The father of the victim is so against pressing charges that he will not even discuss anything in emails so there is no proof on his computer. (I don't think there is a danger of authorities confiscating the computer but to each his own)

Please offer me professional or personal opinions. I appreciate anything you can offer.

[MichiganVote]

1. You can report suspicion of abuse to your local PS service anonymously.

You are not legally responsible unless you are a mandated reporter / professional, teacher, etc.

[MNDemNY]

2. Are you a health care provider, or do you work in education?

If you do, you are bound by law to report your suspected abuse. Even if the abuse is totally outside the scope of your job.

[demgurl]

23. I am not a health care provider....

but I am a substitute teacher. So even if the child does not go to my school, I am still obligated to report it?

Thanks for any info.

[MNDemNY]

26. YES you are. You are OBLIGATED, go to your Principal, or a Union Rep.

[demgurl]

28. Can my principal report it if it is not within our school?

I am sorry if that is a dumb question, just trying to make sure since we are not even in the same county, but we are in the same state. Heck, the victim's mother is a school librarian at another school. She would also be obligated, right?

[MNDemNY]

35. Yes, I'm sure they have procedures for such things.

And Yes, the victims mother IS obligated. (as well as morally deficient for not doing so already.)

[RobinA]

100. No

Your principal is not going to report third hand info that doesn't have anything to do with his school.

[MNDemNY]

115. Wanna bet?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

81. No, She Isn't. I Don't Know Where You're Getting This False Information From.

[MNDemNY]

89. If she is a substitute teacher, as she claims, she is required to report suspected child abuse.

Why do you think otherwise?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

91. Because It Didn't Happen While In Her Official Capacity.

Prove me wrong please, and I'll admit my error.

[MNDemNY]

95. Here.

http://www.nysut.org/cps/rde/xchg/nysut/hs.xsl/bulletins_6737.htm

[demgurl]

108. How about in North Carolina?

[MNDemNY]

114. Here, All state laws here.

http://www.thefreedomresource.org/documents/mandatorychildabusereporting.pdf

[demgurl]

123. THANK YOU!

[noamnety]

126. That link is very clear:

"Approximately 18 States and Puerto Rico require all citizens to report suspected abuse or neglect, regardless of profession." (my bolding)

North Carolina is listed as one of those states.

[demgurl]

129. Yes, that is very clear. Thank you very much.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

135. That Article Proves My Case.

It states right within it that it has to be within their official capacity.

[MNDemNY]

149. No, read # 1.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

150. You Didn't Even Read Your Own Link, Did You. You're Wrong.

"New York’s Social Services Law (Article VI, Title VI) requires certain school employees to
report allegations of child abuse when they have reasonable cause to suspect a child coming
before them is abused or maltreated, or if a parent or person legally responsible for the child,
comes before the employee in his or her professional capacity and states from personal
knowledge facts or conditions which, if correct, would identify the child as an abused or
maltreated child."

It has to be withing their official capacity, whether it is a student coming to them or a parent of a student coming to them in their professional capacity.

Before you act all cocky like you know the facts, maybe you should take the time to read the actually link you supplied.

[Dorian Gray]

171. That may be true

and I am not meaning to argue about the legality of it.... but I do think that Demgurl should report as a moral obligation for the safety of the 12 year old girl. (Was it her niece?)

[wolfgangmo]

228. Dear mindcrime

The problem in your argument comes not from your reading of the language of the law but from a lack of information about how it has been adjudicated. In case after case, nation wide, the law has interpreted "in professional capacity" to mean licensed. They give no leaway for at work or away from work because a licensed professional is held to a higher standard and is never considered to be off the job.

For another example, doctors are REQUIRED to stop at accident scenes if they are the first on the scene. They are not shielded by good samaritan laws unless they do. If they drive on they can be charged with reckless indifference. This is a similar situation by legal precedent.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

240. Oh Really? ROFLMAO!!!! Got Any Proof Of That?

:rofl:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

241. And Furthermore, The Law States Within Professional Or Official Capacity.

Being off-duty DOES NOT fall into that definition.

You are wrong. Dead wrong. And your lawyer friend is a moron. Deal with it.

[MiniMe]

182. Read the other link provided, it goes by state

http://www.thefreedomresource.org/documents/mandatorychildabusereporting.pdf

Reporting by other people

Approximately 18 States and Puerto Rico require all citizens to
report suspected abuse or neglect, regardless of profession.
In all other States, territories, and the District of Columbia, any
person is permitted to report. These voluntary reporters of
abuse are often referred to as “permissive reporters.”


The footnote of the states: Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island,
Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming.


So North Carolina is one of the states that REQUIRE ALL citizens to report it.

Love you OMC, but in North Carolina she is required to report it.

:hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

213. I Know That. I've Said As Much In Several Of My Replies.

My continued debate was focusing only on those states in which it requires the professionals to, since that was the assumption the original person who posted she was mandated to do it because she was a teacher, was under.

:)

[MNDemNY]

131. please admit your error.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

136. I Didn't Make One. Your Article Proved Me Correct.

Regardless, the point is now moot since the OP has now stated that she lives in a state in which it is a requirement for everybody, regardless of profession.

[wolfgangmo]

227. here is the webpage about the federal law

It contains links to the state agencies overseeing the law. http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/manda.cfm

It does mention in a professional capacity, but in adjudication, according to an education lawyer I know, if you don't report ANYTHING you suspect, in any capacity you can have your ass sued off. And the law is clear that if a mandated reporter does not report then; they have no legal shielding, and they will lose their license and credentialing and thus their livelyhood.

The law is clear. And it leaves no room for guessing. Failure to follow the law or ignorance of what it says is not an adequate defense.

She has to report it. She has no choice unless she want put her livelihood and possessions at jeopardy.

That being said, it is a hard thing especially given the family connection. Be strong.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

242. In Her State She Is Mandated, As It Is For Everybody.

In other states where it is not mandated for everybody, she has no risk because she was off-duty. Unless the child was in her care or her actions of negligence facilitated the molestation (obviously not the case here), she does not run any real risk of a civil lawsuit.

Oh, and your lawyer friend is an idiot as it relates to this.

[RB TexLa]

102. No one is ever obligated to report a crime they are not directly involved in

And by involved in I mean involved in the committing of the crime, a victim has no obligation to ever report a crime to anyone.

[MNDemNY]

116. Not true.

[MiniMe]

183. MNDemNY, post the other link you provided

There are some states where all citizens are required to report suspected abuse, which includes a pedophile. Here are the states: Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island,
Tennessee, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming.

[wolfgangmo]

229. Wrong.

Professionals, in certain circumstances, are required to. I am. It goes with taking on the responsibilities of being a professional. Doctors and teachers must report abuse as well as lawyers in certain circumstances. Engineers are required to report substandard construction. Etc...

[jakem]

178. No, maybe not.

My wife (a teacher) reported our neighbor to DSS (kid was in the yard pointing a pellet gun point blank at his brothers face!)

She thought this would be anonymous (because she is a teacher - we are in a very small town) but the record was not anonymous, as it was not a case on school grounds!

I take this to mean you are only legally OBLIGATED on school grounds.

Morally, you are obligated anyway. But be sure to find out the facts first.

[Doodler71]

41. Yes. Your teaching license could be suspended if it was

discovered that you knew about child abuse and did not report it to the authorities.

[demgurl]

71. I work at a charter school,

While the teachers must have a license, I am not required to have one.

[MNDemNY]

90. Even if you were employed as a janitor, you are required.

[MichiganVote]

138. Janitors are not mandated reporters.

[MNDemNY]

147. In MOST , if not all, states, ALL school employees are.

[MichiganVote]

247. Reference?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

156. Again, Only If She Was Approached While In Her Official Capacity.

That doesn't apply here. Please understand that.

[uppityperson]

163. Here is what you wrote above, showing 2 situations.

"reasonable cause to suspect a child coming before them is abused or maltreated, or if a parent or person legally responsible for the child, comes before the employee in his or her professional capacity and states from personal knowledge facts or conditions which, if correct, would identify the child as an abused or maltreated child."

1) a child coming before them, nothing mentioned about needing to be in professional capacity.
2) parent/legally responsible, if is in his or her professional capacity.

So, suspecting a child was abused or maltreated, even if met at grocery store, still required to report. ONLY required to report if parent/guardian approached WHEN in professional capacity.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

173. That's Completely Incorrect. It Has To Be Within Their Professional Capacity.

Your interpretation is incorrect. When they say 'comes before them' they don't mean anywhere. If they did, they would've written it that way. The reason they don't explicitly state within professional capacity for the former, is because it is already readily understood that it means within the school environment since that's where interaction with the child would occur, whereas a parent could come before them at any time anywhere, even when the teacher is not acting under their professional capacity.

My interpretation is the accurate one and I think you probably know that.

[Doodler71]

174. It is not limited only to professional capacity.

You do not know the interpretation of law until it is before a court. *You* can interpret it anyway you like but her license to teach is at stake.

Teachers
Counselors
Doctors

All mandatory reporters all 50 states.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

177. Yes It Is. Educate Yourself.

Argue all you want, but you're wrong. Her license is not at stake (nor does she even have one to begin with) for sake of this argument (since she lives in a state in which it is MANDATORY to report no matter who you are).

In my opinion, I think it couldn't be more obvious that it has to be within professional capacity and I find it ridiculous that some of you think it means anytime anywhere. Trust me when I say a lawyer would laugh.

[Doodler71]

208. Unless you are offering her legal advise as her attorney...

I suggest you shut up.


Second any ethical attorney would not offer someone on an internet board legal advice.

She is a mandatory reporter and it is not just in the capacity of her employment. She wears the mantle outside of her 9-5 position.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

214. Again, You Are Wrong.

In this case she is mandated because her state mandates EVERYBODY. But for sake of argument, if she had been in a state that only required teachers etc, you'd be dead wrong. So no, I won't shut up, because when people speak ignorance I will always set them straight. Don't be so scared of learning.

[Doodler71]

217. I'm not wrong but you apparently are so set on being "right"

you can't see the ignorant person in the mirror.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

218. You've Been Proven Wrong, Yet You Still Want To Hold Onto Your Flawed Position.

If you want to remain willfully ignorant on the issue, I can't stop you. But I've provided the law and it's pretty damn clear. You are wrong in your assessment and have been proven so. In time, you'll get over it.

:hi:

[wolfgangmo]

237. I showed your posting to an educational lawyer I know.

He did laugh and said, "this is why you should call a lawyer first."

Sorry, you are wrong.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

238. Then Your Lawyer Friend Is An Idiot And Should Lose His License.

Did you see the quoted law I put twice elsewhere in this thread?

Tell your lawyer friend that I'm laughing my ass off at him, that through all his years of schooling he's so incompetent and dumb that he answered such a simple question wrong, and that all of 2 seconds of research on his part would've yielded him the correct answer. Tell him to look it up, and that I'll be more than open to his apology for making such a stupid remark and using such bad judgment in the advice he gave.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

180. The Law Is Explicit. You Are Wrong. Here Ya Go:

413. Persons and officials required to report cases of suspected
child abuse or maltreatment. 1. * (a) The following persons and
officials are required to report or cause a report to be made in
accordance with this title when they have reasonable cause to suspect
that a child coming before them in their professional or official
capacity is an abused or maltreated child, or when they have reasonable
cause to suspect that a child is an abused or maltreated child where the
parent, guardian, custodian or other person legally responsible for such
child comes before them in their professional or official capacity and
states from personal knowledge facts, conditions or circumstances which,
if correct, would render the child an abused or maltreated child: any
physician; registered physician assistant; surgeon; medical examiner;
coroner; dentist; dental hygienist; osteopath; optometrist;
chiropractor; podiatrist; resident; intern; psychologist; registered
nurse; social worker; emergency medical technician; licensed creative
arts therapist; licensed marriage and family therapist; licensed mental
health counselor; licensed psychoanalyst; hospital personnel engaged in
the admission, examination, care or treatment of persons; a Christian
Science practitioner; school official, which includes but is not limited
to school teacher, school guidance counselor, school psychologist,
school social worker, school nurse, school administrator or other school
personnel required to hold a teaching or administrative license or
certificate; social services worker; day care center worker; provider of
family or group family day care; employee or volunteer in a residential
care facility defined in subdivision seven of section four hundred
twelve of this title or any other child care or foster care worker;
mental health professional; substance abuse counselor; alcoholism
counselor; all persons credentialed by the office of alcoholism and
substance abuse services; peace officer; police officer; district
attorney or assistant district attorney; investigator employed in the
office of a district attorney; or other law enforcement official.
* NB Effective until January 17, 2009

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

179. Maybe This Will Be Explicit Enough For You:

This is the actual law, whereas above was a snippet from the person's own article REFERENCING the law.

"413. Persons and officials required to report cases of suspected
child abuse or maltreatment. 1. * (a) The following persons and
officials are required to report or cause a report to be made in
accordance with this title when they have reasonable cause to suspect
that a child coming before them in their professional or official
capacity is an abused or maltreated child, or when they have reasonable
cause to suspect that a child is an abused or maltreated child where the
parent, guardian, custodian or other person legally responsible for such
child comes before them in their professional or official capacity and
states from personal knowledge facts, conditions or circumstances which,
if correct, would render the child an abused or maltreated child: any
physician; registered physician assistant; surgeon; medical examiner;
coroner; dentist; dental hygienist; osteopath; optometrist;
chiropractor; podiatrist; resident; intern; psychologist; registered
nurse; social worker; emergency medical technician; licensed creative
arts therapist; licensed marriage and family therapist; licensed mental
health counselor; licensed psychoanalyst; hospital personnel engaged in
the admission, examination, care or treatment of persons; a Christian
Science practitioner; school official, which includes but is not limited
to school teacher, school guidance counselor, school psychologist,
school social worker, school nurse, school administrator or other school
personnel required to hold a teaching or administrative license or
certificate; social services worker; day care center worker; provider of
family or group family day care; employee or volunteer in a residential
care facility defined in subdivision seven of section four hundred
twelve of this title or any other child care or foster care worker;
mental health professional; substance abuse counselor; alcoholism
counselor; all persons credentialed by the office of alcoholism and
substance abuse services; peace officer; police officer; district
attorney or assistant district attorney; investigator employed in the
office of a district attorney; or other law enforcement official.
* NB Effective until January 17, 2009"

[uppityperson]

196. Thanks for the whole bit. Being a health care provider, I am responsible to report any

suspicions in my state, no matter if I am in an official capacity or not. I subbed for a vet tech friend once, reported a scalded to death animal and got in trouble with the vet for doing so. Vet finally figured out that I was used to reporting abuse as a health care provider (for humans) and was doing what I was required to do there.

[Voice for Peace]

87. there was a pedophile in my family

Nobody reported anything
Nobody helped, nobody talked to me about it
Everyone let him get away with it, with just a lecture
It continued for years
It took me 40 years to undo the damage and the shame.
So whatever you do, do something for the child.

[demgurl]

92. Voice In Peace....

I am sorry for all the person put you through. I will do what I can to make sure no one goes through what you have been through. You know, at first the victim was still at gatherings with the perp until we spoke up. When we found out what happened - eight months after everyone else found out and the person told us by accident(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) we told the Dad that we would not be attending any more gatherings where the perp was. It was at that point the wife agreed and said they had had it with trying to keep an eye on their children and they would not be attending either. At least we got a little to change. Now we have to change more. This needs to stop.

[RobinA]

97. No You Aren't

You are only a mandated reporter at your job. You can report anonymously.

[MNDemNY]

117. Not so read the laws.

I posted a link to a very eye opening report.

[usregimechange]

146. you are likely a mandated reporter

[Throckmorton]

166. In Connecticut you would be a mandated reporter

Where you learned of the allegations is of no consequence.

[wolfgangmo]

226. You are obligated. Absolutely.

If you don't then you are partially responsible for anything else that happens.

You must do this. Contact your union rep and your principal and DO IT.

More info is found here. http://www.ehow.com/how_2164407_report-suspected-pedophile-activity.html

It is the duty of all good people to stand between the innocent and evil. Good luck. Our thoughts go with you.

I've been there. It isn't easy, but you HAVE to do this. You have NO CHOICE. It is the LAW. If you husband objects than ask him a) how would he feel if it was happening to his kid, b) how he would feel if you lost your house because someone sued you for NOT DOING YOUR LEGALLY MANDATED DUTY?

[jberryhill]

110. Very insightful question there....

The default is that there is no requirement to report a crime, but being a teacher or health care worker makes a difference in this context.

Very good catch.

[Critters2]

3. If you're certain this happened, you're at least morally required to report it.

You have an obligation to protect this child and others. Families nearly always protect the abuser. That's how they get away with it.

Some of us are professionally obligated (legally mandated) to report. The rest of you should just do it because it's the right thing to do.

[demgurl]

27. I do feel that if I do not report it....

then any future "transgressions" (I am trying to be polite here) are on me and the family.

I am a 100% sure it happened as I have talked to the brother of the person, the mother and father of the victim as well as the grandmother. Each verified with some varying details - IE. the mother, at first, said it was only once until I confronted her that I heard it was twice and then she admitted that as well.

[Critters2]

40. You can report it anonymously to your state's child protective service.

Please do! You know it's the right thing! :hug:

[demgurl]

55. I guess I am gun shy because we have reported the same family before.

The Mom had a boyfriend who was terribly abusive to the boys when they were young. We reported them time and time again until she reported us just out of revenge! They had the boys afraid if they said anything to the authorities that something bad would happen to all of them and so ever story the boys told us, they denied to the authorities. One time we even got witnesses to the abuse but we used that to try and get the boys help and tried to hold it over the Mom's head to make sure she did what was right. When someone else in the family found out they called protective services and the Mom thought it was us and stopped bringing the boys to the doctor.

We were ostracized for a long time and everyone took the Mom and her abuser boyfriend's side. "He is so nice', "He helps us out all the time", etc..... They are all so dysfunctional and co-dependent. I shudder to think what would happen this time - although I have saved every email that even hints at what happened!

[RubyDuby in GA]

222. Seriously, for the sake of helping the kids, report this.

It already sounds like those kids are going to be royally screwed up. At least they will know someday that you tried to help them - that at least some member of their family cared enough to try to help.

[TomInTib]

4. I would confront the freak.

I would tell him right up-front that the entire family is on to him and, that if you even smell a hint of a rumor that he may be up to no good, that you will go public with it - and damn the consequences.

Sounds as if your husband's family may have more than their share of secrets and troubles.

[Critters2]

6. Reporting anonymously to one's state child protective service is more effective.

Confronting him won't change the behavior. It'll just make him sneakier about it. There are experts who know how to handle this. They should be contacted.

[TomInTib]

16. Yeah, but she had better be right.

Otherwise, it will be Family Implosion Time.

[Dorian Gray]

45. It sounds like family implosion

time anyhow.

I wouldn't want to stay in a family where they were allowing the abuse of a child to be swept under the carpet.
I could deal with it if my husband would try to fight against it, but if he was against doing the right thing, I
think I'd just have to check out.

[BlueIris]

48. No shit.

My first call in this situation would be the the police and/or CPS. The next call? A divorce attorney.

[TomInTib]

61. That's what I was thinking, as well.

I would get away from that bunch just as quickly as I could.

Of course, I probably wouldn't have lasted thru the first Thanksgiving Dinner with them.

[wolfgangmo]

239. And what do you consider child abuse...

... but a family implosion?

Just because the excrement hasn't hit the air circulation device yet, doesn't mean the family isn't dying.

[onethatcares]

10. I'm with you. Up front and in their face

along with your husband. If it doesn't stop, NOW, it's gonna be hell to pay.

Wow, good luck and even though I'm not religious, I'll ask God if he'll help you out.

Peace

[Critters2]

17. That won't stop it. That'll just drive him to be even more secretive.

These are compulsive behaviors. They won't be stopped in this way. It's best to report it to professionals and let them deal with it.

[Forrest Greene]

30. Please Consider That That Might Only Make

...him / her more cautious, so as not to be caught next time.

[demgurl]

36. Well, the problem with confronting him......

is I believe this person to be emotionally, if not mentally, retarded. (it is sad and he is only 16) After all of this happened, the person picked up the victim's sibling and brought her to the father as if nothing bad had ever happened. I honestly do not know if he even understands what he did was wrong or how wrong it is.

You would not believe the amount of secrets and troubles. My cousin said the family is like being caught up in a bad soap opera!

My husband really wants to know that if we went to the authorities that even without his brother's help they could do something to reign in the perp.

[TomInTib]

66. I thought you were talking about an adult.

This presents a wholly different set of problems.

His parents should be brought to task and probably by the proper authorities.

What a mess. Growing up in ultra-rural Texas, we would have taken him out and beaten him to a pulp, retarded or not. And then we would have strongly impressed on him that it would be a lot worse if there were ever a "next time".

I do not envy your plight, one bit.

Good luck.

Tom

[demgurl]

74. Thank you, Tom.

The perp lived us when he was about 8 or 9 - his Mom was in rehab for meth! Anyway, I remember almost banging my head against the wall trying to get the boy to understand simple school concepts he had to do for homework. He is just not the brightest, or even nearly the brightest, bulb in the drawer. What makes it even worse is that he was sodomized by a babysitter when he was very young and his Mom has been with an abusive boyfriend for years and years. What has been done to that boy is a crime. (literally and figuratively)

[TomInTib]

83. That was the first thing I thought after reading your reply.

A classic case of a slow child being abused at an early age.

That reel just plays and plays in that clouded mind. And it just seems like a natural thing, after a while.

But that cycle has to be interrupted, or it just keeps on cycling.

[Voice for Peace]

93. The most important thing is to help the child directly, one way or another.

The child should know that others know, and that she/he is not bad; otherwise it becomes a terrifying secret. The child should be loved and supported and never left alone with the abuser.

The abuser should be told that everyone is aware of what is happening.

Even if the child is engaging "voluntarily" in the abuse, the same damage is being done.

Sometimes a child who's not getting his/her needs met from the family will passively accept sexual misuse -- because at least somebody wants them, wants to hold or touch them. When there is no healthy touching in a child's life, they will accept unhealthy touching.

Living creatures need to be touched and held.

But if the child is "voluntarily" participating, he/she will be unable to identify as a victim. So it can be doubly confusing & damaging.

Some kind of intervention is critical, as soon as possible. Even if the abuse is stopped, the child should be given some very special and sensitive counseling.

Edit to add: the abuser needs some help too. It's a situation requiring utmost compassion all around.

[mzmolly]

101. If there is any chance for any of the kids involved

report this. The 16 year old has to learn now that his actions are wrong and have consequences. He needs help, as do his victims.

Best wishes to you and these children demgurl.

[demgurl]

232. No, I do not think any of the kids will report anything.

I may be wrong but I just do not think so. That is why it is up to me to do it.

Thank you for your well wishes.

[mzmolly]

235. Poorly worded statement on my part. I meant that you should report it

if there is any chance for the kids involved to be safe going forward. This given the parents apparent lack of interest in getting help for their children or the kid who's acting out.

Peace to you in coming to the right decision.

[FedUpWithIt All]

151. Is the 16 yr old the one that was abused in your previous post?

I would report this carefully. It needs to be reported but in doing so you need to make very clear that the boy has been abused and explain the abuse you know occurred. Hopefully he can get help. Maybe THIS is the thing that will change the course of his life. That combined with the fact that the abused child needs SOMEONE to stand up, since the parents seem content to let the cycle continue.

Terribly sad set of circumstances.

[demgurl]

233. Yes, the 16 year old was abused when he was younger.

He was pyhsically (not sexually) and mentally abused by the boyfriend of the Mom AND he and his brother and two cousins were sexually abused by a babysitter. Poor kid has yet to catch a break. I am not saying that what he did to his victim was right in any way, shape or form, but I truly want the perp to get the help he needs so this whole mess does not turn into an even bigger mess.

I really feel for him. He lived with us. I tucked him into bed every night. We took him and his brother to Disney. We were his parents for nearly a year when he was just about eight years old. I really want him to get the help he needs because besides the molestation of a child, this kid has a lot of issues that have happened to him.

Sad circumstances all the way around. I had hoped when his Mom had gastric bypass that her self esteem would return and she would dump the abusive boyfriend. I guess 'ugly' really does go to the bone!

[LiberalEsto]

5. Thank you for wanting to do the right thing

There may be other victims out there.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. I would suggest speaking to a lawyer.

Obviously that doesn't help with the personal side of it, but it might help with the legal side of the issue. Good luck.

[ColbertWatcher]

8. I know in some states teachers must report abuse. You're not a teacher are you? n/t

[Doodler71]

18. All 50 states require professionals who work with children to report

All 50 states require that professionals who work with children report reasonable suspicions of child abuse. Some states require that anyone with suspicions report it. Information about each state’s requirements is available at www.childwelfare.gov or call the ChildHelp USA National Child Abuse Hotline, 1-800-422-4453.

If you are a professional who works with children (e.g., a teacher, a nurse), there are special procedures and reporting requirements you must follow. Your employer should provide mandated reporting training.

[ColbertWatcher]

31. Okay, I wasn't sure. Thank you! n/t

[demgurl]

37. I am a substitute teacher.

[Doodler71]

42. Your are a mandatory reporter by law.

You have to report.

[Critters2]

44. You're almost certainly a mandated reporter, then.

Which is actually good. It lets you off the hook, sort of. They can't reasonably accuse you of being a busybody or whatever. You're legally required to report. It's the law.

[RobinA]

104. Mandated Reporter

applies to the JOB only.

[MNDemNY]

118. No.

Some reading for you:http://www.thefreedomresource.org/documents/mandatorychildabusereporting.pdf

[MichiganVote]

140. No it doesn't. It applies to the job title. Teacher = Mandated reporter.

[Doodler71]

175. Your incorrect it applies because she has a license to teach.

The manadatory status is attatched to her license.

[Critters2]

198. Not in this state it doesn't. Mandate reporters are required to report

ANY instance of child abuse they suspect. Maybe it's different in other states, but the law in both Illinois and Iowa is clear on this.

[MichiganVote]

139. All certified teachers are mandated reporters and required to report suspicion of abuse.

[Juche]

9. Well

I have a cousin who did the same thing. However nobody found out about his victim (who was his cousin's son, aka he was abusing his mom's sister's grandson) until after he got caught anally raping a child (total stranger) in a bathroom at a department store. Basically he had been molesting his cousin's son for years and was only stopped when he was caught assaulting a kid at a department store a few years back. There are also reasons to think he may have had other victims when he was out traveling for his job because he once came home beaten up and wouldn't tell what happened to him.

So if the first kid he had molested had somehow gotten him caught then his other victims (he had at least 1 more, maybe more) may never have met him. If he hadn't gotten caught he probably would have even more victims by now.

As to how can you do it anonymously, you can write an anonymous letter or make an anonymous phone call. But they'll know it was you anyway.

[torbird]

11. Do you live near Rick Davis, too?

[EFerrari]

12. Who do you trust in this situation?

:hug:

[demgurl]

47. I trust my husband.

I do not trust almost anyone else. The situation is complicated but let me see if I can give you points so I do not drag it all out and bore you:

- The father of the victim made a pact with the perp's mom that he would not go to the cops if the perp was kept away from family gatherings with small children, the boy got help and the mother of the perp told everyone in the family about what happened so they could protect themselves.

- She temporarily got him help but stopped for summer break! She never told us about what happened. She brought him to family gatherings and the father did not do anything claiming he had a loyalty to the mom!!!

- Even the grandparents are thinking of having the perp top Christmas!

- We have stated we will not be at any gathering the perp attends.

- Everyone seems to have some sort of backward loyalty. I am sorry the perp was sodomized as a child but my children's safety comes first.

- The perp got caught gropping a 76 year old woman at church as well as kissing a 12 year old girl. He was banned from the church. The Mom had the 12 year old over to her house to see if her 16 year old son and the 12 year old had 'chemistry'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I trust my husband, he is the only sane person. I feel like I am surrounded by some bizzaro world family.

[Dorian Gray]

54. Why is your husband

against reporting this crime?

[demgurl]

69. He told me to see what legal obligations we may have.

He is not against it but with the child being in therapy, because of it, he would like to respect his brother's wishes if he could. He has gone against his family before and reported abuse. He is the most stand-up guy out of all of his family and his family resents him for it.

[Dorian Gray]

77. Well, I hope that you two

can come together and do the best for the poor child who was abused. From the sound of it, those children should be removed from that home. With a mother who allowed physical abuse with a prior relationship and now sexual abuse, they are not being protected. It's so very sad. Please keep us updated.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

124. The therapist will report it

There's your opening. If the kid tells the therapist about it, that will be the way this will possibly get on the road to resolution and - for the child - salvation.

[msanthrope]

57. What you describe here is making me ill.....the Mom of the perp

is enabling him....

Time to call the authorities.....and as for remaining close to the family in order to keep an eye on them? No. Stay away...

[demgurl]

70. I pretty much feel that way but I know my husband is very attached to his parents.

I have written off my Dad for abuse and an out of control anger problem. The first time he attacked me was his last. I called the police on him. My Mom wrote me off when I joined a law suit against her for embezzling tens of thousands of dollars from me. She could not believe I hired a lawyer but I felt I had to do what was right no matter what the cost. 15 people in my family sued her! I have not talked to her in about 8 years. I am, for all intents and purposes, an orphan!

I understand my husband wanting to be close to his parents. I miss the idea of having parents sometimes. This is my soul mate. We were best friends for over ten years before we even started dating. We finish each other's sentences and we still want to be with each other every moment we get. I respect him. I love him. The rest of them I could easily do without. I only see them a few times a year anyway.

[undergroundpanther]

160. The neighbor perp

that messed up my life,his wife enabled him.And they dragged their son like two years younger than me into it.

Wives of pedophiles ARE capable of that kind of denial.

My mom was almost killed by my father(who also sexually assaulted me when I was younger)..I begged mom to move out to an apartment.We did.When she came back to the house to get him to sign the tax returns,I walked in first,then her. That's when he put the gun to her forehead.I was 14. I jumped the table slamming into him,the gun hit the floor and went off somewhere in the hallway as we took off,down the drive way he was taking potshots at us.

After a 6 month stint in the local psych ward,I lived in the apartment a total of around a year and a half . Than one day mom said she wanted to move back in with him. One day after therapy I hid from her,It was the only time I ran away from home. My mother found me after awhile and took me to my sisters house ,There my sister my mom and my brother in law beat the crap out of me in a very humiliating way.

As soon as I was back in the apartment,and mom had barricaded my bedroom door with my other sisters antique dresser ,I tied my bed sheets together and rappelled myself out my third story bedroom window.(rock climbing skills are useful)I called one of my friends with a car, at another friend's house,and he took me to the hospital, I tried to get myself re-admitted to a local psych ward to no avail despite my arms looking like I had been attacked by a pit bull. The sickest part..even my shrink ended up enabling my mother and father's fucked up shit.

The denial can be very very toxic and effect people you think would know better.

[EFerrari]

59. I bet you do! What does your husband favor doing? What's his idea?

[demgurl]

73. He almost always just goes along with what I say.

He says he is in awe of me always speaking up for what is right and it, in turn, makes him a better person. He said he is not sure he would have taken every step we have together if he were alone. He agrees that he does not want any further harm done to more children but the way we have been let down when we have reported stuff before, he wants to make sure all bases are covered. He has told everyone we will not be at any event that the perp attends. He also got on his Mom when she tried to defend the perp's Mom still bringing him to the events.

[EFerrari]

79. You know, he sounds thoughtful and careful to me.

I feel very certain that between the two of you talking and thinking this out, you will find a way to do the right thing.

You guys are lucky to have each other to bounce ideas off of.

:hug:

[demgurl]

86. Thank you.

I do feel lucky to have him in my life.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

13. If the family is going to deny it,

what are you expecting? It'll be a mess, and if you're culpable, it'll do horrible damage to you and your husband. It could be equally traumatic for the child, too, if the child doesn't have parents behind hm/her.

But, if you can befriend the kid and give that child a safe place, perhaps there will be an opening that you can exploit. If the parents aren't going to do anything, you're stuck. Nothing will get done.

[Hekate]

21. That is what The Law is for. And the culpability lies with the molester and his enablers.

I would suggest not being one of the enablers, the silent.

Hekate

[Tangerine LaBamba]

24. I know what the law is for,

but when the law is unenforceable, as it would seem to be in this instance, there must be alternatives.

You clearly didn't understand what I wrote, or else you chose to ignore it, because I suggested another path for the OP. You might want to expand your range of vision.

[demgurl]

53. That is what I am afraid of.

If they push us away I will not be able to keep an eye on things and no one will tell us anything that may make it imperative to get authorities in on it. I also do not want to mess up this boy's life. Everything may go haywire if that happens. He has been over to our house and all we can do is be friends with him. I think his parents are in denial how bad it was for him. His grades went to pot and he started acting out. It really had a horrible effect n him.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

65. If you can,

stay as close as possible to the boy. it sounds to me like you're his lifeline. You'll know exactly what to do and how to do it.

You're a good, good soul.

[LiberalEsto]

223. That boy could be raping strangers next

He has already sexually abused people on several occasions. Nothing is being done to make him stop, especially when people are enabling him. He needs to be stopped before his offenses escalate. Before you know it, he could be raping people outside the family.

Sexual predators often start with smaller offenses like peeping in windows, and escalate from there. Many of them have been abused themselves. Then their victims grow up to be predators, and the cycle continues.

I used to be a crime reporter, and once attended a seminar on sexual offenders at a state prison. I have also worked for a child abuse prevention program called CAP. Link- http://www.internationalcap.org/home_welcome.html

[jberryhill]

112. The family's denial will be absolutely irrelevant to an investigative examination of the victim

...by an appropriate counselor.

And the reporter is not identified.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

122. You missed my point

The family's denial will be absolutely relevant when the investigation takes place. They'll deny, there will be no substantiation, and that will be that.

In the meantime, dreadful harm will be done to the child. And, if they figure out who ratted them out, to that person as well.

You must look at the intricacies of what might take place. Jumping in with both feet, believing that somehow the parents will change their minds and turn in the offending relative, is just absurd and dangerous.

[jberryhill]

127. Families deny abuse all of the time

A - your confidentiality will be protected.

B - the child is going to be interviewed by an appropriate counselor, even if the child has developmental or other issues.

You seem to be under the impression that what the parents say has any bearing on the situation. It doesn't.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

141. You seem to be under the impression

that parents have no influence over children.

Having served as guardian ad litem for more abused kids than I can count, I tell you that the power of parents has brought to a halt many an investigation that everyone knew involved abuse, but could not be substantiated.

[undergroundpanther]

161. I hate denial.

It's insult to injury.

[Jackpine Radical]

14. OK--to begin with,

certain professionals (doctors, teachers, counselors, psychologists, etc.) are required to report child abuse of any kind if they suspect it is going on. Such people are called "mandated reporters." I presume yu are not a mandated reporter. You would know it if you are a member of this class.

Other people MAY report suspected abuse of a child to the authorities, but they are normally not required to do so.

If you report the suspected abuse to a proper authority (e.g. police, a county child welfare agency, etc.), they will determine what should then be done. Often, they will do nothing--for example, if they don't believe you. In other cases, they will conduct some sort of investigation, most likely including an interview with the victim. This interview will be conducted by a person with special training, and will be done in such a way as to upset the child as little as possible. The authorities will also go to great lengths to protect the identity of the informant. The parents don't have to press charges if the authorities believe the abuse happened. It is at that point a criminal matter.

I hope this helps.

[demgurl]

76. So there are several professionals in our family.

The perp's Mom is a nurse, the grandmother is a counselor and the victim's Mom is a school librarian. Each and every one of them is supposed to be obligated to report this, right? All of them could have their license taken away from them and yet they are all quiet. I guess it is up to us or no one will report it.

[Voice for Peace]

103. Give the mom some literature about the lifelong effects of sexual abuse on young children.

Depression, addiction most common. Serious mental illness can fester for a long time because of dissociation.

[uppityperson]

164. Oh my, what a situation. Yes, they are and yes they could.

What a situation. Best wishes to you, for a tough thing to go through.

[Doodler71]

15. Thank you for wanting to do the right thing.

I'm so sad for that child. You are the only adult standing up for her/him. Pedophiles do repeat and will repeat with the same victim if not stopped.

Two agencies handle most reports of child abuse

Child Protective Services (in some states this agency has a different name)
The police

Some states designate Child Protective Services as the agency that accepts reports of suspected child abuse. Others designate the police. Some do not designate or designate both. Many states have centralized toll-free lines that accepts reports of abuse from the entire state.

To find out where to make a report in your state, visit http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/reslist/rl_dsp.cfm?rs_id=5&rate_chno=11-11172 or call the ChildHelp USA National Child Abuse Hotline, 1-800-422-4453.

If the legal system does not provide adequate protection for a child, call Justice for Children (713-225-4357) or www.jfcadvocacy.org.

If you aren't sure or only suspect that child sexual abuse has occured:

Child advocacy centers coordinate all the professionals (legal and social services) involved in a case. If you’re unsure about whether to make an official report or just need support, contact a child advocacy center. They will help you evaluate your suspicions. To find one near you, contact National Children’s Alliance at www.nca-online.org or 1-800-239-9950.

Child Abuse Helplines have staff specifically trained to deal with questions about suspected child sexual abuse. Call Darkness to Light’s helpline, 1-866-FOR-LIGHT to be routed to resources in your own community, or call the ChildHelp USA National Child Abuse Hotline, 1-800-4-A-CHILD

Local Community Agencies, such as local hotlines, United Way offices, or rape crisis centers can often help. RAINN (Rape, Abuse, Incest National Network) http://www.rainn.org/ is a very valuable resource. 1=800=656=HOPE (4673)

Talk to the child’s parents (as long as they are not the abusers) and provide educational materials, such as the 7 Steps booklet. If the parent seems indifferent or unlikely to take action, call one of the other recommended sources.
These resources can help if you are unsure about whether abuse has occurred, but they do not substitute for making an official report. Remember that you may be the only source of protection that the child has.

[Hekate]

19. Speaking from experience, Yes, he will do it to other children until he is stopped.

I spent my whole life imagining I was my father's only victim, and that if my mom knew she would leave him on the spot, which would leave her and us 4 kids destitute.

As an adult I discovered that I was wrong on all counts, but by that time he had molested my daughter. My mom actually caught him fondling her and covered it up.

(Serenity Prayer here. Try to clean up all the typos.)

You must speak out, not only for this child but for all the others. I guarantee that this will unleash a hornet's nest in the family, and no one will thank you. But gather up all your courage and righteousness and do the right and necessary thing.

God bless.

Hekate

[Solly Mack]

20. Lot of hugs and warm vibes coming your way

[renate]

25. I'm sorry

What a terrible burden for you to have to bear--especially as a child. :hug:

I agree with you that the OP should report the behavior if she's certain that it happened. The child's parents are NOT acting in the best interests of their child or in the best interest of the other children the perpetrator will abuse or has abused in the past. Pedophiles NEVER stop on their own. It's a difficult situation, but if the family falls apart as a result of this, it is the CRIMINAL's doing and his responsibility, not the fault of the person who tries to end the abuse.

[demgurl]

82. Hekate....

I am so sorry that happened to you. Thank you for confirming this will only happen to more and more people. I am not only afriad for those children, I am also afriad that this perp (only 16) would get torn up in jail since mnetally he is very child like. I would love for him to get help of some kind because I think he would honestly be killed in jail. (or kill himself)

[Hekate]

148. Oh dear. He's just a kid himself. And fortunately for him, a minor as well.

This is just too sad.

I hope for his sake above all that he gets a rigorous course of mental health care, as does his young victim.

My heart really goes out to all of you. :hug:

Hekate

[Z_I_Peevey]

22. Morally, you must report.

Legally? In my state it is a crime to fail to report suspected child abuse. Your state may be different.

Don't most state welfare agencies have an toll-free tip line? Mine does. You can make your report anonymously.

But be prepared to accept the fact that your report might not be enough for arrest and prosecution, especially if the family is protecting the abuser with lies and/or silence.

[demgurl]

84. I have kept each and every email ......

from the father of the victim right up to the grandparents. Even when they did not reply, they can not say they knew nothing about it because I have described it in great detail to the point that the father of the victim said I was no longer to communicate with him about that because he wants no evidence on his computer. I have one grandparent saying she understands the perp is a threat and can not be around the kids. I have the father retracting part of my email and responding he can not answer it and I would have to phone him in order to talk about it so there is no trail. The victim has a doctor he has been seeing because of this incident. It honestly makes me wonder who this doctor is when he has not reported the crime. I may have the victim over and casually ask him who his doctor is.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. What's your evidence?

Why do the parents not believe your evidence?

[Jed Dilligan]

33. She gives it in post 27.

[demgurl]

58. The parents believe us.

The parents were the ones who got their son into therapy. Which means the therapist is obligated to report the molestation, right? I have to wonder why he has not reported it since he is treating the boy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

63. To clarify from something you said upthread...

the perp is a 16 year old boy, the victim a 12 year old girl? Or was their another victim?

[demgurl]

96. OK, I will try to clarify it.

I am sorry if I am not being clear. I am a Mom tryig to take care of her kids, a husband who has pneumonia and me who has a cold while talking to all of you. Forgive me.

The perp is a 16 year old boy who I believe is mentally and emotiionally retarded. I have ever since I met him about ten or so years ago.

The victim, in our family, is a nine year old boy.

Other things I know about are him kissing a 12 year old girl he cornered at church. And gropping a 76 year old woman from church. He is now banned from church.

That is THREE people I know of. I do not fool myself into believing I know everything that this boy has done. Those are the only ones I know of.

I hope that helps you understand more clearly.

[SoCalDem]

32. CALL THE POLICE, IMMEDIATELY....

It's your obligation..and I can tell you from personal experience, that the child will NEVER forgive you if they find out you knew, and did nothing to save them:(

I was never able to forgive my mother for how she reacted when I confided in her, and how she stayed with him and went on to have two more children, whom he also molested.

[Jed Dilligan]

38. I agree except for the 911 part

Unless the emergency is actually happening (the guy is alone with the kid and you think he's molesting her) she should use the police non-emergency number or go through CPS.

[SoCalDem]

39. you're right..I'll amend the title

It just hit a nerve with me.. I even told my priest, and he accused me of lying..and then gave me my penance.

[Jed Dilligan]

52. I know--it is an "emergency," just not a 911 emergency.

In my past life working childcare I've been frustrated by the silence and complacency of people who just didn't want to deal with what looked like a pedophilia situation. I had two kids, brother and sister aged 5 and 10. The brother played with himself constantly through his shorts and sang "I'm a Pervert" on the playground; the sister sat in my lap and told me I was her boyfriend. When I told my boss this should be looked into, she said she had met the parents and they seemed fine. I had met them too, and they really didn't.

That being said, I've also stood in front of my burning apartment building for forty minutes trying to reach 911, so I'm pretty sensitive about those lines being needlessly tied up as well!

[EFerrari]

60. I'd never call the police immediately because they're likely to act like your priest.

:hug:

[Solly Mack]

34. There will be no real family peace by keeping it a secret.

Such secrets fester and manifest themselves in other ways. So if anyone is hoping that secrets will keep the peace...well, they're in denial. And it won't help the little girl at all.

I won't go into my story but I will tell you that when adults decide to keep such things a secret, it's not the child they are trying to protect. It's not the child the adults are thinking of...

[demgurl]

88. This family seems to find peace in secrets.

The victim is actually a little boy. Not that that is a big deal but I did not want to mislead anyone.

Oh I know it is not the child they are thinking of or even future children that may be effected. How can we sit by and just let the perp possibly ruin another child's life or more than another child. I have a conversation with the victim's Dad and asked how many kid's lives needed to be ruined before it would OK to turn in the perp. I said one definitely had been effected but do we wait for two children? How about five children? What if it were girls instead of boys? Would that mean only two lives would need to be effected? He claimed family loyalty to the perp's Mom when she did not even honor an oral contract so her child would not end up in jail. Guess family loyalty does not go both ways, huh?

[Solly Mack]

158. Wouldn't matter what gender the victim is...girl or boy.

It's all the same. There is no family, much less family loyalty, when a member of the family is being molested and the rest of the family stands there and does nothing. No one is being loyal to the victim are they?

Warning the other family members and hoping for the best is the same as doing nothing. Anyone that tells themselves they've done all they can to protect children just because they've warned other family members is lying to themselves. All that does is enable the abuser. The abuser is then protected by the family secrets.

Sounds to me as if the family is more worried about how they will look than it is in helping the child.

The child deserves better than this.

I know exactly how hard it is...but you can't let this happen to another child.

[Dorian Gray]

43. This is such a difficult situation

as the parents obviously are not advocating for their own child. Which makes me absolutely sad and horrified.

Before answering, though, is there unmitigated proof that this child has been molested? And what reasons are the parents giving for not wanting to report this abuse? Do they believe it happened? Or do they not want to face the consequences?

I do think that if you have spoken to the child and she or he asserts that it has happened, you should proceed. Your husband is wrong in wanting to sweep it under the rug. But since you gave us few details about the situation, it's really difficult for me to make a definitive judgment on the situation.

[Critters2]

46. You're a mandated reporter. You MUST call the authorities. nt

[undeterred]

49. I once had to report what my neighbors child told me.

She said that her mothers boyfriend had exposed himself to her. I asked where her mother was when this happened and she said her mother was right there laughing. Apparently they were both drunk.

I really did not think that the girl had actually been sexually abused YET, but I felt like I should report it. I knew a lot of other disturbing things about the home situation. First I called someone I knew who had been in social services and I talked to her about who to call and how to make the call. That was really helpful and- she told me not to expect that too much would happen.

I made the call and it lasted about 15 minutes. Before this call I was friendly with all 3 of my neighbors children. Afterwards they were not allowed to talk to me. Social workers came to the school to interview the girl and came to the home. It was not the first time. The mother was angry at me and told her kids that I and the social workers wanted to ruin their family. The boyfriend remained in the picture. DENIAL is an amazing thing.

Several years later it turned out they were running a meth lab - mom went to jail and all the children were put in foster care.

It is right to get involved but it does not help the child right away.

[BlueIris]

50. Of course you have to report it.

Then you have to consider breaking with these people entirely. At the very least, they're enablers. Of child sexual abuse.

Think about that. A lot. Then get a divorce and long-term therapy.

[lunatica]

51. If you were the abused child who would you forgive over this later in your life?

As an abused child let me tell you that the wound that's been inflicted on him is profound, and worse when people know but won't help. This is something that he will carry with him for the rest of his life, like a scar. What others around him do now will determine how bad that scar will be. The child doesn't need to feel that he's being kept a deep dark shameful family secret. On top of being sexually abused he continues to be victimized every day of his life if his parents know but do nothing. The silence is as bad as the sexual abuse and compounds it, making it much worse.

So it comes down to who's feelings are more important to protect. The abuser, the abused child or the rest of the family. What are they afraid of? What the neighbors will say?

Maybe if you talk to them about this victimization and who's to be protected and for what reason they might be able to see that this isn't a choice about what's easier to do, but rather about what's right, whether it blows up their family dynamic or not. No matter what decision anyone makes it's hard. It's best to get past the 'it's hard' part and get to the 'what's right' part.

edited for spelling.

[demgurl]

105. If my Uncle had his way, he would have molested me.

In fact, my Mom walked in on my other Uncle molesting me as he changed my diaper! She never let him near me again. That Uncle was abused by a priest and he, in turn, molested my Uncle - his brother. That other Uncle came on to me when I was about 16! He talked about wanting to be alone with me in a bar. I pointed out I was his niece and he insisted he still felt that way. I went to my room, alone! I told my mother about it for years and she would not believe me until I confronted her in front of some friends of mine. My Uncle passed it off as a misunderstanding and I explained to my Mom I had a witness - a boyfriend who I had hidden down in my room. I explained he had wanted to rip my Uncle apart at the time. My Mom turned on me and said she would probably never talk to my Uncle again and wasn't that enough for me. Dear old Mom! I had been 16 and nothing happened but it still haunts me about how she appeared to blame me and not him.

At this stage in my life I have learned to forgive many things. If I had been violated I would hope I could forgive that but do not wish the hell of living through that on anyone. Having been raped I understand a small bit of what someone else might go through.

I do not need to answer the questions you have asked because I believe we both know the answers. I do not think others would be truthful with those answers, not in my husband's family. I always want to do what is right, no matter the cost. I have done so many times in the past and paid a very high price for it but am proud that I did what was right.

[AwakeAtLast]

56. Ask your husband what he would do if it was his child

I doubt that he would say, "Cover it up!" I could not in good conscience let a child be victimized again, and I doubt you could, too. I would have to go the route of calling the proper authorities and let them handle it. Most of these people are true professionals and want to do what is best in the child's interest.

:hug: Keep us updated, this is not an easy situation to be in!

[demgurl]

107. My husband is not trying to cover it up.

I do think that he is looking for a reson to compell us to report this. He would NEVER be involved with a cover up. When I asked how he woudl feel if he found out we coudl have done something but didn;t and then more children were hurt, he told me to find out if officials woudl do anything if the father would not really co-operate AND if we are legally obligated. I think he is just looking for cover to do something right. Something to point to and say we had no choice.

I will keep you updated and thanks!

[mimitabby]

62. you can make a difference

I reported a close family member even though i was 2 states away. he had been bragging to me about how he was taking kids camping. He was a cook at a Juvenile Detention center. Within a year he was put in prison for a related offense.
You don't need to tell your husband, although I understand that you would want to be on the same page with him. The fact is, no one needs to know you made the report. The parents might not press charges, but it might help later when someone else's parents do.

[demgurl]

109. I have a totally honest and open relationship with my husband.

I would never do it without his blessing and if I went to him and said this is mandatory, he will condone it and support me. I would never betray his trust like that. Everyone will look to us and even if someone else made the report we would be blamed. We are told we see everything in black and white and were blamed a few years back when someone else even made a report. Even if it was ten years down the road, we would be blamed!

[salguine]

64. If you don't sat anything, and he does it to another little kid, can you live with that?

[readmoreoften]

67. This child is himself a severe abuse victim acting out his abuse. He needs to be institutionalized.

He needs help just as much as the young girl he just abused needs help. If he was sodomized as a child, as you say, and he seems mentally and socially regressive from this abuse, he needs clinical intervention.

Think of this situation as an ongoing, contagious psychiatric emergency instead of a crime that needs vindication. He needs professional help.

[demgurl]

113. We knew he needed help when he lived with us for a while.

We essentially tried to blackmail the Mom into getting intensive therapy for her child (the perp) but then someone reported what we were trying to blackmail her with and there went any leverage we had over the kids getting help.

The family just found out about the sexual abuse (of the perp) a year and a half or so ago. I reported, here, that my niece ran away from home. Lots of people helped me get the word out so we could find her. It was then that we found out that she and her three cousins had the same after school care provider and all of them were abused! He is a victim but I know that does not excuse his actions.

Last year the perp's Mom was thinking of sending him to military school OR intensive inpatient treatment because of troubles he was having. Guess what? This was part of the troubles she was talking about! Military school? Really?

Would the law get him psychiatric help or will they throw him in jail?

[lunatica]

68. Ask yourself why you're hesitating (I'm not being mean here)

Sure it's the family dynamic. You feel you're just an in-law so you shouldn't mess it up for them. But what's so wonderful about them that you would mess it up? Maybe the entire family needs someone to kick their collective asses so they can live in the real world instead of the one they wish they lived in. Families can get really fucked up with their secrets and their weird crap handed down generation to generation. They get so used to really horrid things because it feels normal to them. Someone has to step off the treadmill and stop walking that path.

In what way will it benefit any of them to continue to be so dysfunctional? So maybe the family falls apart. Is that such a bad thing when the family isn't strong enough to protect it's own young children?

Just imagine what's the worst thing that can happen if you turn the man in, and then imagine that by doing that the boy is helped. So what's the worse thing that can happen. Chances are, it won't happen like that at all. They might even be grateful that someone did something which saves them from having to do anything themselves. Hero's must make tough decisions. That's what makes them heroes. If you save this boy you are a true hero.
s

[Baldameer]

72. Sexual Offenders are habitual...

You can blow the whistle on him and get him help and get the child out of that situation. Yes he will be arrested, but in all honesty, he needs to be held accountable for any childs safety. Why?.. because I honestly believe pedophiles can't help themselves and they normally have a long list of those they molested and I would bet that guy does as well.

It's in your best interest and that childs to call the authorities. Your husband is ashamed and afraid of what will happen, but he needs to get over it and the best thing he could do is support you in this and that child. If his family doesn't understand they are part of the problem and maybe some of them have something to hide.

If your husband contests you on this, you really need to rethink your marriage.

[demgurl]

120. Believe me, I know the worst that can happen.

The last time we confronted the family about abuse (physical, not sexual - some details in another post I made here) we were ostracized for over a year. Oh yeah, and the mom of the victim? Well when I said how wrong it was that the perp's Mom had reported us to protective services just out of revenge, she replied, "Well what did you expect, look what you did to her!" Yes, I canvassed her neighborhood looking for the witnesses to abuse that the perp (then a victim) had told me about. I found the witnesses after canvassing ten houses, and I wrote to every representative, in my state, whose emails I could find. I told them how long I had tried to get the boyfriend to stop his abuse. I explained how the boys lied to authorities saying nothing happened because they believed bad things would happen if they told the truth. I got one rep to take up my cause for me. The thing is, the abuse I had found witnesses for had happened so long before that that the child witnesses would be no good at that point. And the boys, of course, were trained to lie.

I have put my heart and soul into trying to help children in this family. I broke down crying in the neighbor's arms (and she cried with me) when I finally found her children were witnesses. And I deserved to be investigated because I did all of that AND offered the family the phone number of witnesses so they could see the boys were abused. No one took me up on that offer.

Yes, I had to go down to a hearing and have witnesses to my husband's and my character. We, of course, were found not guilty. I had people come in my house and check it out. It is humiliating and then to have someone say what did I expect? Maybe the parents of the victim are scared that will happen to them as well! Oh, and the perp's mom is very vindictive. You have no idea the lies she has spread about us. In fact, she convinced the victim's Dad that I abuse my husband! She convinced some we sold a car to that we were pawning off a bad car after the car had trouble a month after they took possession. (We had over $3000 worth of work done to the car before we even sold it. The people (Who also were family) paid us only half of what they were supposed to because of her. And the list goes on as to things the perp's Mom did to us last time. I can not imagine what she will do to us this time.

I have tried to save the perp and now it looks like I will need to try and save his victim. The worst that can happen? Perhaps this time her abusive boyfriend will come over and kill our dogs. I feared that would happen last time. Or perhaps we will wake up to a house fire. I would not put either past them.

[sarcasmo]

75. You better get yourself a lawyer and make damn sure the person did what you are going to be accusing

them off, just my opinion.

[demgurl]

125. It was both of the victim's parents who told us.

We found out from the brother of the perp, he mistakenly told us and then the victim's parents confirmed it. An Aunt also confirmed she knows and that she has not told her husband. (an ex-con who may hurt the perp) We have talked to both grandparents about it but they have not told us details. I also have emails from the victim's Dad saying he will not discuss the stuff on computer so that there is no trail that would make him go against his sister and her son.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

78. How Strong Is Your Proof? What Kind Of Violation Was It? How Do You Know The Facts?

[demgurl]

128. we know the facts because....

we heard them from many members of the family. I also have emails.

As for the violation, the perp asked the victim if the perp could perform an act on the victim. The victim said OK and the perp performed the act. Later the perp came back and asked to do it again. The victim said no. The perp begged and pleaded and then even offered money. The perp made this offer many times but each time, after the first, the victim turned him down.

A few months later the victim and his sister were taken to a workshop on how to be aware of strangers and not to let them act on anything that feels wrong. On the way home the victim said that not all people who do those sorts of things are bad because XXXXXX did that and he is not a bad person. The parents were horrified.

The only tangible proof I have are emails. But the victim has been seeing a doctor so he should have some proof. Of course, I guess he is not allowed to talk? I guess I could let the cops tap my phone (wait a minute, Bush is already doing that!) and I could talk to family members about this. That would be proof.

[Dorian Gray]

172. I am still unclear

on the reasons that the parents of the 9 year old boy don't want to take this further? What is their relation to the perpetrator's parents? And why are they trying to sweep it under the rug?

I'm asking only because I'm sort of fascinated by this story, Demgurl. It's so difficult for me to imagine a family so mired in denial and secrets. I hope that you do go forward and report the abuse, and I hope the child's parents end up supporting your report. For the sake of their son.

[demgurl]

197. OK, I will honestly try to make it clear.

Please feel free to ask questions on what I am vague on. I know you are fascinated by their denial and co-dependence and I understand that fascination by the absurd circumstances that I have been in with this family.

To understand it a little more you should know a little background. I have given a small bit to others in this thread but I will provide you with a little more.

The Mom, of the perp, took up a meth habit a long time ago. She got help and while she did, we took in her boys. This was when we first got real confirmation that the boys were being abused by the boyfriend. The boys went back with their mom when she recovered but then she had a relapse and we took them again. The Mom and the grandmother came over and begged us for the boys back because she really needed them during this time of recovery even if she had relapsed! We did keep them for a while.

That Thanksgiving came and the morning of Thanksgiving the oldest boy came to us and told us he tried to commit suicide. When we asked why he said he felt guilty because the abusive boyfriend had told him everything his Mom was going through was his fault! We went to the Thanksgiving meal at the Grandmother's house and told her about what happened and why. Well, she accused us of being abusive with the boys. She said she had heard that we made the boys pick up acorns in our front yard. We admitted we had and said we caught the boys throwing acorns at passing cars and we felt the punishment was appropriate. Mind you, nothing was said about what the boyfriend had said or his abuse or the fact that the Mom had relapsed. She went back to insist we were the abusers and that the boys needed to be back with their family. Looking back on it, we never should have returned the boys to their family but we only took them because the boyfriend said if we didn't he would turn them over to foster care while their Mom got better. I went home in tears that day. It was obscene to be accused of being abusive. The boys went home with their Mom the next day.

This is the sort of thing we have been dealing with for years. Here is one of his emails "dealing" with the issue. Perhaps this will give you insight into the father:

*******************

No I won’t lie but I won’t voluntarily provide witness unless I am the one pressing charges. Evidence gathering is the responsibility of the prosecutor, and family loyalty still counts for something despite our own pain in the matter. Also I don’t care to be sued myself for making or commenting on possibly defamatory and hearsay email discussions, emails that are preserved indefinitely as though they were carved in stone.

For these reasons and others, I see no reason to leave potentially incriminating (or litigable) information lying around on my computer. I’ve been following this policy for a long time and it has nothing specifically to do with any family member. You don’t seem to agree (your email below is chock full of this stuff) so please just don’t send it to me so I don’t have to be connected to it.

Regardless of your decision about how you choose to participate in email discussion, you are well aware by now of my preference in the matter and I simply do not wish to participate in sensitive discussions via email, so please don’t include me or my family if you persist. I am committed to pursuing right responsible action in this matter, but we should all respect one another’s choices and methods.

*************************

Here is more:

Of course you must do what you feel is right for you but there are legal and
practical issues. If XXXXXX's youngest son or anyone else should somehow get
in trouble with the law it will not help his case to have a paper trail of
family members informally discussing the issue. Plus everyone's computer
could be confiscated in a situation like that for evidence-gathering. It's
just a wise best practice to avoid certain topics in email.

Email is inherently insecure because it is not encrypted or protected in any
way over the Internet and it can easily be intercepted. Experts advise that
you should NEVER discuss highly personal or any confidential information via
email which is why web sites no longer use email for transmitting data like
credit card numbers.

Barring personal contact such as in-person discussions or telephone, it's
simple enough to refer to sensitive issues in ambiguous ways via email,
especially if everyone already has enough background to provide context.

****************

I don't know if that helps or not but there is some of what the father has said to me. The Dad has claimed 'family loyalty' is important. The Mom is his sister. She has always been really good at manipulating most of the family. She had him believing I am abusive to my husband (his brother) when I was trying to get the family to see the evidence I had that her boyfriend was abusive. It is like fighting a Republican candidate. She takes what I say and tried to turn it back on me screaming that I am the one who is like that.

The whole family is just messed up in keeping everything as calm and as secret as possible. It does not matter who does what. It is just amazing to see in action. It is because of my interaction with them that I now understand those who remained silent during the Holocaust. Not that this is anything like that but they are as silent as others were when crimes were committed.

[Dorian Gray]

248. I am sorry that you have to deal with all this

As I said, this type of denial and obfuscation is so foreign to me, which is why I've asked so many questions in this thread.

But in all sincerity and honesty, I truly hope that the best outcome in this situation is reached, and those children are
protected from the insanity of it all.

[MichiganVote]

142. "Proof" is not required to report the suspicion of abuse regardless of how the susp. is generated.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

155. Doesn't Mean It Isn't A Valid Question.

If the evidence had been really weak and there wasn't much to support it, the OP would risk a huge family fight and likely have her case go nowhere except for a routine investigation that wouldn't probably go too far. I wanted to weigh the details before giving any advice. Since it is now evident there is more than enough information for reasonable suspicion, obviously she should report it. Since the law dictates that as well, I think the OP has a lot clearer picture on what she needs to do now.

[MichiganVote]

246. I'll say it again, "Proof" is not required by law for the report of a suspicion of abuse.

However, courage in the face of resultant family problems is a requirement. The law does not specify "reasonable suspicion" or "more suspicion than not" or " very little suspicion" or a "feeling" or the lack of a "feeling", It simply says suspicion.

And a report can be provided anonymously.

[faithfulcitizen]

190. Exactly right, it's up to CPS to investigate. If your "evidence" isn't strong enough, they won't.

[dgibby]

80. This is child abuse.

This child is being abused by the perp and her parents. You are legally and morally required to report.

[wicket]

85. I wish someone had spoken up for me

Only as an adult did I find out I wasn't the only survivor of his terror. :hug:

[4 t 4]

94. I am so so sorry your in this position, and So sorry 4 the child

but if we don't stop it with the adults, it will never stop. The adults are the one's that need to be uncovered and suffer. It starts with them, not with the children. This is something I also have been saying for years. This stops with the adults even if they were abused. It has to stop and it is the adults fault even if they were abused it has to start and stop somewhere, with the adults, the kids can't stop it? they know no better. It must start with the abused adults as harsh as that is. I know I am right about this. Do your research it is contagious. It is a very strange phenomenon in human history. It must stop with the abusive ADULTS or it will never stop.

[Pavulon]

98. report it

I do not know the legal obligations but the moral and human obligation is simple.

If a person hurt a child or you have good reason to suspect report it.

The person is presumed innocent and will be investigated.

Wife works in medicine, most of these are pled down when family will not cooperate but at least you tried, right.

Child abuse is horrible and permanent for the victim.

[RT Atlanta]

99. WHAT LASTS LONGER??

the pain of discipline to do "the right thing" (reporting the SOB), or the pain of regret. You'll live with regret the rest of your life and, if allowed to continue, will seriously fuck with the poor child's emotional structure.

Please report them - do the child the favor of speaking up when they are obviously unable to do so, end the enablement from the rest of the family (you may be surprised that your voice will bring others to the light) and lastly for yourself - you dont want to be 75 years old looking back on this incident saying "I wish I would've...."

[Voice for Peace]

106. If nothing else, if at all possible, let the abused child know that you know what is happening

and that he can say no; and that it is something that happens to many children; and that you will help him if you can. Plant those messages in his brain, at least.

[demgurl]

130. The victim is seeing a doctor and .....

his parents have made it clear to the rest of the family that they will not bring their children to events where the perp will be. So, h eis being protected and he is getting help. For now I am worried about future victims. The Mom can not possibly keep an eye on the perp 24/7.

[pitohui]

111. as others say since you are teaching you probably have a legal obligation

i for one don't report things i "suspect" only things i know -- if you are CERTAIN that this person is abusing a child, you've got to report it, but don't necessarily expect that anything will be done

in days gone by my parents were forced to report a pedophile and the only result was the pedophile shooting at our house and then disappearing in the night with his family never to be found again

sigh

you can only do your part, you cannot force the state to do its part, and if doing your part puts you in danger, take care

computers get confiscated on accusation, at least in my state they do, a friend i know who was let's face it molesting teen runaways had his computer confiscated but he never spent a night in jail and never will, but i guess costing the pervert money is better than doing nothing at all

[4 t 4]

119. I Am so sorry for you too, But you know your parents

did the right thing. I will hope you and yours are ok and i will be thankful none of you got shot or hurt and you did the right thing. It will Never stop with the children It Must Stop with the abused adults or they will countine the cycle and abuse again. To me it is very simple. It must stop with the adults that were abused. Period. Or it is A Never Ending Cycle!!!

[lonestarnot]

121. I thought every teacher knew they had to report known instances of child abuse whether sexual or

otherwise. Are you serious?

[demgurl]

132. Yes, I am serious.

In fact, if you search for my name, here, you will find that I found offense at McCain's ad against Obama stating he wanted to teach kindergarten children about sex when in reality it was to teach them how avoid being molested. I stated my relative being abused and his abuse coming to light, due to one of those types of programs, meant McCain's ad was extra offensive to me and the children programs like that might protect. Check it out and see I am for real.

But as I stated, I am only a substitute teacher and it is for a charter school. I do not even have a license. I do not need one at our school. (if you search for my name from a couple of years ago, in the education area, you will find I asked for help writing up an essay to apply for this job) So unless I have been perpetrating this 'hoax' for several years now, and McCain helped me so much in this, then yes, I am for real.

This is a very serious subject for me and to ask me something like that is offensive. I am a substitute teacher. My nephew was abused by his cousin who has been abused himself.

[lonestarnot]

134. Then godamnit! Report the fucking abuse! WTH is wrong with you!

[demgurl]

137. I am sorry if I was offended by your post.

I should have not gotten offensive and am sorry if I was. I am Buddhist and this means I am supposed to approach every situation with love. I am taught you can never win any point of view/war/argument with anything but love.

Nothing is wrong with me. I did not post asking IF I should report it. I asked what legal obligations I had, not so I could weasel out of it, but so my husband would feel better about us reporting it. I asked what the authorities might do if the father would not co=operate because if I was told they would not do a darn thing, it would be pointless.

I am merely trying to get my ducks in a row, so to speak. I am trying to make sure I go about this the best way so that everyone can get the help they need.

I am grateful that people have asked me what proof I have. I am grateful for other information and questions. It makes me have that much stronger a case to insure something is done.

The first thing we did was let everyone know this is unacceptable and we will not be at gatherings where the perp is. Then we went to the victim's Dad and asked him to threaten the perp's Mom to get the perp the help that is needed. We have been trying to work through this especially since the perp may very well be retarded. I would love to get him committed so he gets the help he needs instead of getting raped in jail. I want what is best for everyone. A doctor is best for the perp but if it means having him hauled off to jail just to protect others, then so be it.

I hope you will find the love and concern in my post and know that I am committed to seeing something is done. I am serious and I am doing my best to handle a bad situation considering the repercussions that very well may be taken against us. (see my above post and where I hope my house will not be set on fire or my dogs killed, these are very real possibilities to me and yet I still want to do what is right)

Ghandi said to be the change you want to see in the world. For me that means good has to start somewhere and instead of waiting, you need to be that good. I strongly believe you can not wait for others to do what is right. You must do what is right and set the example. I believe in good. I believe in love.

[Dark]

133. Are you positive? Because, if you're not, you could ruin an innocent person's life.

If you are, report it. If not...

I don't know what to do...

[MichiganVote]

143. No one is required to be positive to report suspected abuse.

[mrbarber]

144. I'm gonna put this as nicely as I can:

[MichiganVote]

145. I'm going to put this as nicely as I can. I didn't write the OP. Now delete the response you've

thrown my way and try again. And for the record...I agree with you.

[mrbarber]

152. Oops....

New to DU, still learning how to respond to stuff, that was directed at the OP, not you.

[MichiganVote]

244. no problem

[Dark]

169. If you were accused of being a pedophile, do you think you'd recover?

It's a VERY serious accusation. And, if false, it would destroy someone's life. Everyone would mistrust them. I won't even get into the fun of having a trial
.

You should be absolutely sure about the accusation you're making. Cause, one way or another, you're about to destroy a person's life.

[MichiganVote]

245. its not up to reporters to determine the veracity of a claim. That's the job of CPS.

A report to CPS is of a "suspicion" of abuse only. That's the law, and I'm not here to argue its merits or lack thereof.

[mrbarber]

153. To the OP:

What are you, a fucking idiot? REPORT IT FOR GOD'S SAKE, WHY ARE YOU EVEN ASKING?!?!

And who gives a flying fuck if the "parents" don't want to press charges, if they were aware of the abuse and didn't do a damn thing about it, throw their ass in prison to. See how they like to feel helpless and victimized.

[philosophie_en_rose]

154. You need to report this immediately. (Parents don't get to decide whether charges are filed)

Mandated reporter status is defined differently in various states and may have different obligations. Most require reports in any case of suspected abuse and many have time requirements, such as reporting within the first 48 hours of learning about the abuse. You should be reporting this for the victim's sake, but you may also be risking your career. Just report it.

It must be hard for your husband and you, but this isn't something your family can handle privately. Remember that it's not your job to collect evidence, press charges, or convict anyone. That job belongs to law enforcement, social services, doctors, and prosecutors. Even if there are no criminal charges, social services can protect the child by forcing the parents to participate in services and by getting court orders to keep the perpetrator away from the victim.

In any case, you have a reasonable belief that a specific child has been abused. That's enough. Tell the social workers everything you've written here and explain about the doctors, the private agreements, and the coverup. Tell them who to contact and who might know. Explain what you've collected and what you suspect. The social workers can get court orders to see if abuse is documented in medical records. All you can do is make a good faith report of what you know and where you think they should look.

Finally, neither you nor your family are helping the perpetrator by not reporting this. He may or may not understand what he's doing, but he's never going to learn boundaries from people that hide and enable his actions. I can only imagine what that child is thinking about and abuse investigations are a new trauma in themselves, but I bet that knowing that someone cared would be good enough. To be honest, I wouldn't care about pissing off people that coverup abuse.

You can call child protective services, your union rep, or your principal to ask what your obligations are in your state. Every state is different and the laws change all of the time. Requirements usually don't get more lenient, though.

Things you will/should be asked, when you make the report:
- the child's bio data (age, name, address, living situation, etc)
- the parent's information
- your information (if you are mandated reporter, you may not be covered by anonymous reports. check your state laws)
- the perpetrator's information
- your version of events. You may want to make a timeline of how you learned about this and what you think has been done
- a list of people that might have information

You can ask to keep your identity private. It might not be possible, but you could ask anyway. If it makes you more comfortable to meet a social worker in person, you could offer to meet them.

If you are not a mandated reporter, you are still allowed to make a report. It seems like the perpetrator's behavior is escalating and it's only a matter of time before something else happens. Even if the victim were safe, there are other children in the world.

[undergroundpanther]

157. Hmm

If It was me, I'd take him out back with a crowbar behind my back to crack him upside the head, but again, that's how I feel about pedophiles.I think they all should be in a grave for all the suffering they cause.

You can do an anonymous tip to child protective Services.
Or an anonymous report to the local cops.
You could consult with an abuse counseling sexual assault center too.
The counseling center can back up your tip and give you advice legal help and whatever else is required and keep you anonymous.

[Dem2theMax]

159. I have ONE question for you.

If you had a child, and that child was molested by someone who had previously molested yet another child, and it was known, but not reported, how would YOU feel?

Now quit worrying about all the adults, for God's sake. Who CARES what your husband or anyone else in the family thinks?
THEY don't count here. They don't count.
Protect the children. Protect the children. PROTECT the children.

I can't even believe you are asking the question.

There is only ONE answer.

Report it. Period.

Now.
(As if I had to add that.)

[undergroundpanther]

162. I'd feel unspeakable anger

And The Unspeakable part of that anger and all the denial around me that is what made me lose my mind. Over ten years in the psych system, misdiagnosed too.

Sexual abuse of a child can mess the person up for their ENTIRE LIFE.

It really can.
Protect the kids.TO HELL with the adults,really.

[Dem2theMax]

165. I do feel the anger. I think you could tell.

Sad to say we've both been there. But from the sound of it, your experiences were much worse than mine.

:hug:

Like I said, how can the question even be asked?

Yes, to hell with the adults. Perfect way to put it.

[undergroundpanther]

170. ....

:loveya:

[Name removed]

167. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Giant Robot]

168. Honestly I am not familiar with the laws in your state

Just mine. I can tell you that you will most likely not be in the wrong for reporting something in good faith. I believe all the states have some type of good samaritan clause in their reporting laws, but I could be mistaken on that.

The other thing I will tell you is that you are a mandated reporter working in a school setting as you do. Does not matter that you are an unlicensed sub. You work with children so you get to be a mandated reporter. Whether that is for kids that you encounter in your job or not, well I am not sure. But I will tell you I am not sure that matters if you not reporting anything comes across the desk looking to make an example out of you to the community at large. A social worker in my area was charged with failure to report suspected abuse and was found guilty and went to jail. I am a fellow social worker, so word spread about this. It was not in the course of the person's job, and it was a third hand report. But somebody wanted to make an example out of him and they were able to do it. Just keep that in mind.

But there is one more thing, now that I think about it. There is no choice you can make that will give you a nice happy outcome. Anything you do here is going to make life difficult and ugly for yourself and other people. But you have the potential to stop a child from being victimized. That is what you can hopefully get out of this to make it worth what will happen.

Good luck to you.

[ogneopasno]

176. That child is hoping someone will make it stop, and you are in a position to do so.

If it keeps going, the victim can turn into a perp later on, too, and send the cycle around again. Please report it today. Good luck to you.

[demgurl]

199. It already stopped for this victim.

The parents will not allow the perp anywhere near their children. The child is also getting help. He had to since he was acting out and his grades went way down. He was in a world of hurt. Thankfully that all stopped. I am going to report it but I am trying to get all of my ducks in a row. Thank you for caring about victims.

[Red State Rebel]

181. For the sake of the next victim if not the past ones - YES REPORT IT!!!

I was a victim of a pedophile and I grew up furious that 1. My Mom knew what this man was capable of and sent me out there for a week (it was my grandfather). and 2. Even after I finally told, nobody ever confronted him or did anything about it. In my heart, I know that I was not his last victim and it sickens me that nothing was done to stop him. My aunt refused to believe me and continued to take her two young daughters out there for years. I will never be convinced that he didn't molest at least one of them.

[demgurl]

200. Just so you will feel better....

it was never a question of whether or not I report it. I will be reporting it. I promise.

[Balbus]

184. The fact that you had to ask whether you should report it or not disgusts me.

[demgurl]

204. I am sorry that a misunderstanding on your part makes you disgusted with me.

At no point did I ever ask if I should report it. I had always planned on reporting it. My husband asked me to find out what legal obligations there were and if authorities can pursue it if his brother will not co-operate. I was finding out information for him because I love him and he asked me to do it so he will feel better about the fact that his family may never speak to him again. Before you get disgusted with him, he has NEVER gone against us reporting this, he just wanted the information and if that information makes him feel better, so be it. We are the ones strong enough to break the silence and we are the ones who have paid dearly for it in the past but despite that we are going to speak up again.

I am not perfect so I can not rise above any of the population and cast judgment on others. The world would be better if we focused on our similarities rather than our differences. I hope you will find peace for your outrage but still continue to speak up for those who are weakest among us. Thank you.

[Balbus]

249. Even after your long-winded, back-stepping, blather...

I still find you to be a disgusting, vile person. And if there's a lord in heaven, I hope you don't and never will have children.

[faithfulcitizen]

185. Honestly, your OP makes me sick. WHY WOULDN'T YOU?

Your husband sounds weak and selfish. If you don't report this, how on earth can you ever live with yourself? And YES, it will happen again. Please don't let that 9 year child or the next victim down.

[demgurl]

205. I am sorry my post made you sick for no reason.

I never said I wondered if I should or I am thinking about not going to the authorities. My husband wants to do what is right and has stood up for the perp when he was a victim. We told everyone his Mom's boyfriend was abusive but they would not listen. We even did not go to family events for a couple of years but then decided that we could keep a closer eye on the abuse if we went to events. My husband is stronger than I am in the fact that it is his family he stands to loose and yet he has still stood up to them.

I never said I would not report it. It never even crossed my mind to not report it. Never. And I agree that it will happen again and most likely has happened more than we even know.

I am sorry you were sickened by something I never said or even suggested. I did not come here to try and be talked into anything. I came here for information before I go to the authorities.

Thank you for caring about child abuse.

[faithfulcitizen]

211. You need to reread your OP. You asked for professional AND personal opinions, you got both of mine.

[demgurl]

220. I asked for personal opinions but not asking should I go to the authorities.

I even stated I knew I had a moral obligation and that was always enough for me. I did state I had a clear obligation and I never stated I was wondering if I should go or whining about my responsibility. In fact, I posted here only for my husband's benefit (as I have stated many times in this thread) because with or without any obligation I knew we would be going to the authorities.

The reason I asked for personal opinions was os that I was not only answered by lawyers or the like. If someone knew about anything I wanted them to speak up.

Yes, I got both of your types of opinions and I am truly glad so many people here care about child abuse of any kind.

[lunatica]

186. After reading all your responses in this thread I'm sure you'll report it

I understand that you're just trying to find the WAY to do it. You are this boy's hero.

[demgurl]

206. Thank you for reading and understanding.

It never crossed my mind to let this perp get away with what they did. I need support more than you know. Thank you.

[greguganus]

187. Let's see...piss off your in-laws or stop the pedo. YOU GOTTA ASK??? JEESH!!!

I'm in North Carolina too, and I'll either see a news article about this pedo being turned in, or I'll probably see an article of another child victimized. The choice is yours.

[demgurl]

207. That was never a choice and I am sorry if I did not make it clear.

I have yet to ask, "Should I turn him in?" or "Can I get away with being silent?"

Look, we know the dangers of this teen because between the time the father found out and when we found out, it was eight months later!!! Our children had attended family gatherings and had been exposed to the teen perp. Our stomachs churned when we found that out. We had to sit at our kitchen table and talk to our children about whether their cousin had asked to do anything to them or touched them at all. I was in tears, feeling betrayed by the whole family of silence, for the next week after that. It took all the courage I could summon to ask the question and wait for an answer from my kids. So if you think I am inclined to protect people who put our children in danger, then you must think I am the worst parent in the world. There has never been a choice for me.

The ONLY reason I waited this long was because the victim is getting help. My friend told me to hold off and see if the doctor reported the crime because he is obligated to. I only waited to see if that would happen and to my knowledge the doctor should now have his license revoked. Now I wonder if the parents did not know the doctor would be required to report it and so maybe they sent the child to a doctor but said to be quiet about this stuff? In that case the child is not getting the help they need but this all is speculation on my part.

Anyway, back to the original point. I never offered a choice and nor did I realize there was one for me until people started to accuse me of trying to create a choice. THERE IS NO CHOICE, THERE NEVER HAS BEEN, NOT FOR SOMEONE WHO IS MENTALLY HEALTHY!!!!!

[demgurl]

188. Thank you for all of your replies. I do want to clarify a couple of things.....

The boy is in no immediate danger right now. His parents refuse to be around the perp at all. He is getting help from a doctor who, to my knowledge, has not reported the incident. I understand just because the victim is safe, it does not mean others are safe.

This posting was never about whether or not I should turn in the perp. It was about gathering facts to solidify my position. If this is not handled right there could be a lot of blow back for us. I am not talking about just hurt feelings. I am saying that I would not be surprised in the least if our house somehow caught on fire in the middle of the night and I could loose my family and maybe even my life. I am positive fingers will be pointed at us but I am trying to minimize the threat I feel to my family.

In fact, the perp's Mom has called protective services on us before in retaliation for us calling them on her family. Because of this history I almost expect protective services will show up at our door and take away my boys because of 'anonymous' accusations that we sexually abuse our boys. Even though we had witnesses to the abuse of the perp's boys, her whole family were more sympathetic toward her and one even asked what I expected after what we did by reporting her! So please forgive me when I am a little cautious since I am positive this will result in us having to hire a lawyer and spend thousands of dollars to defend my own family or maybe even death if they get that vindictive. Yeah, they may get caught if they set fire to our house but you can never bring someone back from the dead.

This is not an easy thing for me, not because I am scared of being ostracized, who the hell wants to hang out with a bunch of enablers to child molestation? No, this is not easy because I have seen how vindictive and vengeful the perp's mom can be and I honestly fear for the well being of my family. And if our kids were taken away from us, until it was all sorted out, we would never allow any family to take care of them. We have so little faith in any of them that our children are not allowed to have any unsupervised visits with any of them!

So you can sit in your safe world and judge me while I sit here contemplating the best way to go about this to protect my own family from trauma blow back of any kind. And, by the way, if you think I want to be around any family that makes me feel threatened, you are nuts. At this point it is the victim's safety and my husband and kid's safety that are paramount in my mind.

My Mom used to say you can attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Cursing at me is not a way to make me see things your way even though I already do. We are on the same side. I am going to make sure it is reported. Please just bare with me and help me rather than driving me away with mean words that include cussing and putting me down. I am a good person and will make sure things are done. I trusted you all enough to come to you, now trust me. I respect you, I hope you will respect me.

Thank you.

[greguganus]

189. The sooner this pedo turned in, the less chance of another child suffering. n/t

[Marrah_G]

191. you are in a tough situation

I suggest reporting this to social services and at the same time letting them know your fears of retaliation. This way they can give any accusations against you the merit they deserve. Be up front and open with them. If there are any threats make sure you report it so it is on record.

I am sorry you are going through this. I went through something a little similar with my ex husbands family when my kids were young. I know how hard it is and how torn up your husband must be.

Ignore those blasting you. They are behaving as we often see when people are behind a screen.

[faithfulcitizen]

192. Who said our world if safe? I have personally reported molesters in my family. Ask yourself this:

If you and your husband think his family is capable of burning your house down and his mom justifying it, why does your husband want to maintain a relationship with them?

Many people here have given you good advice, like report anonymously, report to a therapist or doctor. But, if your family is threatened, your husband may have cut ties as well. Sounds like you would be better off. Sorry, if I personally sounded harsh, but I work with people with mental retardation and people who have been molested, and their is NO QUESTION you must report. The sooner, the better.

[gollygee]

193. My suggestion is that you go to the police and tell them everything, including

the fear of retribution, and that they've falsely claimed sexual abuse in your family in an attempt to have your children taken away by CPS as retribution. Tell them the whole story including that. I'd be surprised if your case was the first where people threatened retribution for turning in a child molester, and the police probably already know how to deal with it.

[EOTE]

209. I know this is a crazy difficult thing to go through.

And people who claim to have easy answers for this situation are fooling themselves. And anyone who would throw insults at you need to get off their high horse and learn some empathy. It seems to me that you've got the moral compass needed to guide you through this situation while minimizing the damage to the innocent involved in this. I understand why you started this post and I hope you've gained insight on how to best handle the situation. I wish you the best and hope that things turn out as well as possible. As hard as this is going to be, you're doing a very good thing. :pals:

[Doodler71]

210. Something is not making sense to me

Somewhere above you said the Mother of the perp had taken him to a therapist. If that the case and the therapist had knowledge of his/her client molesting children, the therapist is required to report it (no gray area - confidentiality does not apply in cases of child abuse). Is it possible the mother stopped taking him to the therapist for fear of this next incident being reported as well?

Already in your posts you said this isn't the first time and that he has had other inappropriate sexual behaviors with other people.

Sadly, this young man is probably acting out because of the sex abuse he received but by not reporting it the cycle is being perpetuated. The young boy he assaulted could act out, especially if he is not receiving any support from his family other than silence.

Just because this young perpetrator is being isolated from family member doesn't mean he won't act out on someone else. How about in a public restroom. Someone sends their 11 yo son in to use the restroom and this perp is in there.

It's not your responsibility to ultimately decide what happens to this perpetrator, that will be up to the police and if it will go to a criminal or family court for intervention.

The litmus test for this is to imagine the person you admire the most. Imagine what he or she would do confronted with this situation. Then imagine how you would feel about that person if they did or did not report it.

[demgurl]

219. There are different occaions when the perp supposedly saw someone.

At one point we had absolute proof the perp was being abused by the Mom's boyfriend. We held it over the Mom's head and said we would go to the authorities if she did not get boy of her boys help. She allegedly started them going to a therapist (I have no proof she did) but then someone else reported what we knew to the authorities. She said she then had no obligation to get her boys help.

We had been to the authorities over and over at that point and they never did anything because the boys were told to lie or bad things would happen. At that point we felt we needed to take a different route in trying to help the boys.

Part of the agreement that the victim's Dad would not go to the cops was that the boy get help. She allegedly got someone. I am not sure she did but that is what she was telling people. Now this is no rich chick but she allegedly had someone coming into her home and treating her son. She has been in rehab and is now a mentor. I could not help but wonder if she had a counselor coming to her home. Someone she knew who would not say anything. Then she decided her son could take the summer off from getting help! We did not even know about the molestation until after the summer was over. Bow she says she has two people seeing her son! She will not talk to my husband or myself and everyone else believes what she says and I do not believe will check up on her.

The victim is definitely seeing someone but now I wonder if it is a friend of the family who will keep it quiet. The Grandmother works at such a facility and it is very near the victim's work. They could easily tell someone they knew that the perp is being taken care of and they may trust that they need to do nothing. I am sure if the Grandmother works with the person they would keep it quiet not knowing the Mom can not be trusted to supply the care needed for the perp.

At any rate, there was never any doubt in my mind that this must be reported. It WILL be reported, I assure you.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

230. Wishing you strength and peace, Demgurl...

These people sound all-around crazy. I would think any licensed counselor that she had the boy seeing would be obligated by law to report abuse, so whoever she had him seeing was either not licensed or was skirting the law.

I understand that these agreements were made between family members to keep quiet -- this probably happens a lot more than we all think. It's easy to be outraged from afar but I know these situations can be very tricky.

Ultimately though both this boy and his victim need help, and I would think the other boys who were abused by the mom's boyfriend would need help, too. The best way for them to get help is to remove them from the situation, in my opinion. It sounds like the older boy's victim is now removed and getting help, but the perp himself is a victim, too.

Best of luck to you, I have read a lot of your posts and I know you are potentially facing some dangeous retaliation. Please stay safe, take care of yourself and your family, too.

[EFerrari]

221. I have had manipulative abusers turn the tables on me and know exactly

what you mean. It's common for people like that to project their cr@p all over you and to try to neutralize the threat you represent with false accusations. You're right to be very careful.

I expect you are already keeping a journal of these events and exchanges.

You sound like you know exactly what you're doing. Good luck, dem gurl.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

243. You Are In An Incredibly Tough Position. Ultimately, The Choice Is Up To You.

Unfortunately, you did not choose to have to be in this situation and it sucks that you find yourself in it. I think you now that the ethical and legal (in your state's case) thing to do is to report it, but things in life are not always black and white. Do what you believe to be best, but also make sure you understand the consequences of the decision. I pray this works out well for you, and that you find peace of mind with whatever decision you ultimately make.

[pipi_k]

194. My own personal experience with this...

Years ago I discovered that a male relative by marriage had molested at least three little girls in the family...one of them my daughter.

We assembled at my mom's house one night and conducted a confrontation with the man, who, of course, denied everything, claiming that whatever he had done to these little girls had been "misconstrued".

This man was...still is...married to one of my younger sisters, who has always been about as non-self sufficient as they come, so when I said I would report it, my mom convinced me that I should just let it go and never let my child go to their house again because we had to "protect my sister". Against my better judgement, I did just that...let it go.

A few years later it came out when one of the little girls he molested, the daughter of a man I was living with, went back to live with her mom. She was about seven years old...all the little girls were about the same age when he molested them...between five and eight...anyway...

She made a comment to her mom, who contacted the authorities in their state, who contacted the authorities in my state, who talked with my children, and then asked me if I thought any of it was true.
What could I say at that point? Of course I thought it was true. I would not lie to save this man.

Well, that set off a family shitstorm and for a long time none of my family would have anything to do with me or my kids because I refused to LIE for this man...who, BTW, was convicted and jailed for a very short time and then placed on probation. Nobody believed he would do something like that because he was....get this....A Christian.

After his release from jail, he promptly packed up his family and moved to Florida, where he went on to molest two of his own daughters (he had also molested one of his older daughters from a previous marriage) and I don't know how many other little girls we'll never know about.

It was difficult for a long time not having a family...actually the man I was living with, his family became my family, so we weren't totally isolated, but it still hurt.

I don't regret it for one moment, though, and I would do it again. There would, however, be one thing I would change...instead of letting myself be convinced NOT to report it the first time, I would do it instead of waiting for circumstances to make the decision for me...although I don't feel I was forced to make that decision either. I mean, I could have lied and said I wasn't aware of anything.

Some years later, one of my nieces...his older daughter via his marriage with my sister, tried to commit suicide and asked another female relative (who also had been molested by this man as a child) if fathers were supposed to "touch their daughters" in certain ways.

So, after more than 20 years, I was finally vindicated when a little girl who knew NOTHING about this whole deal because she was a baby when it first happened came forward and accused her father of doing the same thing to her.

How many young lives he's ruined, we'll never know.


If you have concerns, then please report him. If the rest of the family want to protect this man, then it's their own sickness. If they ostracize you because you want to protect a child...or children...then what does that say about them, and do you really need/want people like that in your life?

[shrike]

195. Do the right thing, but be prepared for fallout. (Just edited.)

A man I know did time for child molestation. I didn't know him well, but worked with him at charity events, etc. You could have knocked me over with a feather when I heard the news. He was a firefighter, gentle giant type, beautiful wife, children of his own. He took a plea bargain because his own nephew came forward. He'd charged with molesting two little boys he'd been babysitting. It tore the family apart. The nephew he molested is the son of his wife's sister. The two sisters no longer speak. The man's wife believes the nephew is lying. That her husband is completely innocent.
I don't know your family or your situation, but from the sounds of things there will be fallout.

Definitely report him. He won't stop. Btw, I just read your post upthread. If your relative has retaliated so in the past, that changes things. Why don't you see a lawyer? See more than one. Criminal defense lawyers tend to know prosecutors well; they work together.

Do you know any cops? I know people on DU tend to hate cops, but the cops I know HATE child molesters. Not that you'll ask them to beat this guy up, but they may be able to give you feedback. Get some legal advice on this woman's retaliation tactics. Please do.

[Sabriel]

201. It's a moral issue, not a legal one, IMO

Do what's right, even if it might have negative effects on you.

That child has no advocate right now and needs one desperately. You've got the power to help...use it.

[gollygee]

202. Also, the perp is at this point a juvenile

if no one reports his behavior and it continues (which it almost certainly will) he isn't caught until he's a legal adult, it will be much worse for him as well. It's in the best interest of the victim, any future victims, AND him for it to be reported now.

[FedUpWithIt All]

216. I agree that prompt intervention might change the course the perps life could take.

The younger he (the perp) is when the issue is dealt with the better off he will be. His brain is not yet completely hard wired and an intensive therapy at this age MIGHT alter the likelihood of him doing future harm.

The other issue here is that the victim will likely also benefit more from therapy at his young age than he would at a later time. The wounds of abuse fester when left in the dark.

[yardwork]

203. You must report this to your county's Department of Social Services.

They will do an independent investigation. You don't have to tell your family that you were the one who reported the abuse. DSS will do the investigation themselves, and if they find evidence indicating a crime, they will pursue it. The parents don't have to press charges.

Report this to your county's DSS immediately. People's lives are at stake.

[slackmaster]

212. After mulling this tough question over I have to say the perp should be turned over to the police

He will almost certainly offend again.

[Eurobabe]

215. Checking with my daughter, she works at a state agency

(for adoptions and placement, they have tons of kids in this situation) Hopefully she will answer soon. I asked my daughter if a person knows if they are legally obligated to report the offender.

My initial personal inclination would be to report this person as soon as possible. If you don't want to do it, give the info to someone else and let them make the call. I know two victims of childhood sexual abuse, and the scars are deep and long-lasting. No one, I repeat NO ONE, should be allowed to get away with this kind of stuff. Ever.

[Eurobabe]

225. You are not a "mandated reporter" according to my

daughter, however, I urge you to report this person as soon as humanly possible. Child sexual abuse is heinous.

If you suspect that a child is being abused or neglected, you should call your local Child Protective Services (CPS) agency or the CPS agency in North Carolina listed below. Here is the toll free number to call in North Carolina:

North Carolina (NC)
[phone]

If no number is listed for North Carolina, or if you get no answer call:

Childhelp® USA National Child Abuse Hotline
1-800-4-A-CHILD®
(1-800-422-4453)
TDD: 1-800-2-A-CHILD

Childhelp® USA is a non-profit agency which can provide reporting numbers, and has Hotline counselors who can provide referrals.

[demgurl]

231. While I hate I am not a mandated reporter.....

that does not change my stance that we must report it. This thread was really for my husband. He does not want to report his family but that does not mean he will not since he has done so before. I think he honestly just wanted a legal reason where he could shrug and say he had no choice. In reality, we really have no choice anyway. We do have to turn the perp in. It does hurt since he is so simple and since we did have him at our house for about a year but if he does not get help now, he will get mandatory jail time later when he is not a minor. (and more children's lives may be ruined)

Thank you for your effort in calling your daughter. I appreciate you.

[aikoaiko]

224. You gotta do what you gotta do;.

If the family were handling it adequately depending on the specifics, I might not report, but it doesn't sound like they are.

Inviting investigators into your family will likely cause problems, but you have to compare that to the quality of life of the victim and possible future victims.

Just be prepared that they may be consequences for doing the right thing.

Good luck with your decision.

[demgurl]

234. Thank you for your kind words of support.

I appreciate your positive reply as well as all of the other positive replies. I have faced the blow back from trying to protect children before so it will not be a surprise when it happens. I am trying to brace myself, though. Even when you expect it, you can never truly prepare yourself for it.

Have a wonderful and peaceful week.

[lunatica]

236. There are things you can do to minimize some of your fears of retaliation

If you feel the molester's mother might burn your house down or have someone do it you can set up motion sensitive lights all around your house so anyone sneaking around will set them off. Some of those lights could be in the area where you park your cars, in case anyone decides to slash your tires or break a window. You can let everyone know that you've done this and in most cases this will be enough to get them to abandon any plans if they have such ideas.

There are also motion detector cameras that are reasonably priced. And I'm sure you could get great advice from the knowledgeable DUers here about all kinds of things you can do to minimize the threats and your fears.

Here's a camera motion detector site I just googled.

http://www.nextag.com/motion-detection-camera/search-html

But the best thing you can do to minimize and even deter any action against you is to tell everyone loud and clear that you have all this equipment. Who's going to come anywhere near your house if they know they'll be lit up and photographed in the act? No one.