So if the polls are correct, there are a lot of Obama voters in favor of Prop 8 in CA

[ruggerson]

How do we get more of them to vote against it?

It's both frustrating and bizarre that people would vote for the Democratic candidate and at the same time vote to write discrimination into the California constitution.

Of course, the basic premise here is flawed. No state should have a system where one group of citizens get to vote by majority rule on the civil rights of another group.

But that's another discussion.

Poll results:

CA President -

Obama 59 McCain 35

Prop 8 (which would eliminate existing marriage rights for gay and lesbian citizens)

Yes 48 No 45

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=a869826d-9c50-44c4-88f8-8cf02154ab6e

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=0d4fd538-5834-4c18-98c8-6e58da254976

[tblue]

1. I just try to impress upon them that this is writing prejudice into the Constitution

and that Obama has said he opposes prop 8.

[Jed Dilligan]

2. The media is pushing that all churches are for the proposition.

Probably has a lot to do with it.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. Is that like the Family Marriage Act in Florida?

We have that here on the ballot and of course it's a Republican doing. It's so pleasant sounding, but it's a heinous attempt at unconstitutionality.

[ruggerson]

6. Prop 8 would eliminate the already existing right to marry

in California.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. Oh shit. That's RIGHT! What unbelievable MONSTERS Republicans are! nt

[ruggerson]

8. But it's not just Republicans voting for it

a lot of Democrats are if the polls are accurate.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. Americans are so backwards. :( It depresses me. Doesn't it depress you? nt

[proud patriot]

18. it's more about ignorance and peer pressure than being backwards IMO

I think those who aren't exposed to it have more fear about it .

Why ? I have no idea :shrug:

[JerseygirlCT]

4. I had no idea the numbers were that bad

Good grief. How sad, and maddening.

This WILL end up in the USSC. The majority just shouldn't get to vote a minority's civil rights out of existence.

[JDPriestly]

12. Maybe, but the Cal. Sup. Ct. decision was based on the California

Constitution.

[JerseygirlCT]

13. Sorry, I didn't mean this particular case.

I meant in the long run, the entire issue will end up there. As more states legalize gay marriage, people will rightfully demand that their marriages be recognized across state lines. And that the federal government recognize it with taxes, etc.

I think it will end up being a constitutional and civil rights issue. We just have to hope that we are able to replace one or two of the bigots on the court right now. I nominate Thomas and Alito to go away, myself.

[ruggerson]

14. I think you're right

and a USSC decision would trump all state laws and even state constitutional amendments, I believe.

I think there is a current 5-4 majority for same sex marriage on the court. Remember it was, oddly enough, Anthony Kennedy who wrote the majority opinion in Lawrence V Texas AND Roemer v Evans, which many legal scholars say lay the groundwork for an eventual marriage ruling.

If we can keep or improve the current balance on the court, which an Obama win will hopefully guarantee, we might be in good shape.

In the meantime, however, it would be nice to win the California vote and vote down Prop 8.

[JerseygirlCT]

22. Agreed on all points! nt

[goodgd_yall]

5. There are supporters of Prop 8 who are one-issue voters

Take that into account. They really aren't committed to one candidate or the other.

[msongs]

9. its about forcing religion's beliefs on everybody really - lotta dems hate gays in CA nt

[JDPriestly]

10. Radio ads for Prop. 8 are false.

They claim that under Prop. 8, churches could be required to recognize gay marriage or lose their income tax status as religious organizations. That is nonsense, but I have not heard any ads effectively countering that argument. They also claim that schools would have to teach about gay marriage. That is also false, and I have heard ads countering that, but the ads were not very effective from the anti-Prop. 8 side. So, the pro-Prop. 8 campaign has been full of lies, but it has effectively played on peoples' fears.

[Merlot]

16. This was the first week I've heard any anti-8 prop commercials

it took them a while to get up to speed. The pro-8 commercials are horrible, very outrage-inducing, very stir up the moral outrage type. Oh, and full of falshoods. And they are everywhere, all radio stations, TV, newspaper. A lot of money is behind this campaign.

I've heard the Mormon church is funding the ad campaign. That's the Mormon church in Utah, NOT California.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. Hopefuly the presidential race will be called early and some pugs in CA won't vote

Thoguh many Obama viters are for it it appears to be a minority of Obama voters, so pug defections would still be key.

[proud patriot]

17. it needs to be framed as changing our Constitution IMO

keep the law the same , no on 8

[Booster]

19. I posted this before, but I went to lunch last week with 11 peopls,

all of whom were devout Christians. One of them piped up and said "be sure to vote yes on Prop. 8". I said "let me give the other side of this". Why should you as a married person get over 1400 benefits, both state and federal, that I don't get as a single person. No one said a word. I said how about everybody has a civil union and the word "married" is taken out of the equation altogether; it doesn't bother you that atheist get married? Not a word. I said "ok, how about we take away those 1400 benefits from married people and make all of us equal under the law." At that point they changed the subject, of course. During this 2 years of campaigning I have totally lost all tolerance for Christians in general - they are ignorant, self-absorbed, my way or no way, do as I say and not as I do, - well, you get the idea.

[Peace Patriot]

20. Well, it's not as bad as I thought. It's actually close--only 3% difference, which,

as polls go, makes it a dead heat. I thought "No" was in much more trouble.

I don't understand it. But neither do I understand a mere 10% lead for Obama. He should be wiping the floor with McDrone and Ms. To-Nowhere. And maybe he is. All polls are very conservative, and make fundamental errors, such as not polling folks who have only cell phones. Think of how many young voters that leaves out. They sometimes exclude on the basis of voting in the last election, or other criteria that excludes large sections of public opinion, or NEW public opinion. Then there is the framing of questions, and so on.

And then there are the 'TRADE SECRET' code voting machines, and how the Corpo/Fascists who control the 'news' may be falsifying the polls to confirm some pre-decided Corpo/Fascist outcomes--for instance, that Obama wins, but his real mandate (huge) gets significantly shaved (the polls tailored to narrow down toward the election, and then gel with a manipulated outcome), and he gets a difficult 'Blue Dog'/Puke-dominated Congress to hamper him. So then they can start saying, well, he didn't have a big mandate for change, and he has to bow to the Diebold III Congress. I don't trust the Corpo/Fascist 'news' even a little bit. I saw what they did in 2004. I see what they do, every day. The Corp/Fascists who own and control the 'TRADE SECRET' code in all these voting systems HAVE the power--the EASY power--to determine election outcomes. And they are--no question about it--in cahoots with the 5 fatcat, fascist, billionaire CEOs who control the 'news."

So, questions like this--why are some Obama supporters voting against gay rights in California?--are really hard to answer. It could just mean that a lot of Pukes and sexual bigots and Evangelicals and Catholics are switching to Obama, because McCain-Palin are so disgusting. These are not progressives or leftists or real committed Obama supporters. He is just the best alternative. In other words, the question is framed wrong. It's not really "Obama supporters" being against gay rights; it's people who are against gay rights voting for Obama because he's far more intelligent and suitable to be president than McCain is. They would be happier with Obama if he was against gay rights. But they're willing to put that opinion aside to vote for the better candidate.

That's if you trust the polls.

[Beregond2]

21. Here's what I think:

I think a lot of the people who are say they are for 8 aren't even going to vote. I also think that the huge numbers of new young voters are going to be overwhelmingly against it. So I think it will fail. We'll see.