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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 01:53 PM
Original message
Powell Not Qualified for Government Work
Barack Obama would like to bring Colin Powell into his new administration. But Americans consider Powell only marginally more credible than how the rest of the world views him, and the rest of the world thinks he lies like a rug. Powell either wholeheartedly backed the biggest crime thus far this century, or he secretly opposed it but worked to make it happen anyway. I'm not sure which is worse, but either disqualifies him for future office.

Can you imagine having an opportunity to address the United Nations Security Council about a matter of great global importance, with all the world's media watching, and using it to… well, to make shit up -- to lie with a straight face, and with a CIA director propped up behind you, I mean to spew one world-class, for-the-record-books stream of bull, to utter nary a breath without a couple of whoppers in it, and to look like you really mean it all? What gall. What an insult to the entire world that would be.

Colin Powell doesn't have to imagine such a thing. He has to live with it. He did it on February 5, 2003. It's on videotape.

I tried to ask him about it in the summer of 2004. He was speaking to the Unity Journalists of Color convention in Washington, D.C. The event had been advertised as including questions from the floor, but for some reason that plan was revised. Speakers from the floor were permitted to ask questions of four safe and vetted journalists of color before Powell showed up, and then those four individuals could choose to ask him something related -- which of course they did not, in any instance, do.

The panel that had been assembled to lob softballs at Powell served its purpose well. It was moderated by Gwen Ifill. I asked Ifill whether Powell had any explanation for the way in which he had relied on the testimony of Saddam Hussein's son-in-law. He had recited the claims about weapons of mass destruction but carefully left out the part where that same gentleman had testified that all of Iraq's WMDs had been destroyed. Ifill thanked me, and said nothing.

I wonder what Powell would say if someone were to actually ask him that question, even today, or next year, or ten years from now. Someone tells you about a bunch of old weapons and at the same time tells you they've been destroyed, and you choose to repeat the part about the weapons and censor the part about their destruction. How would you explain that?

Well, it's a sin of omission, so ultimately Powell could claim he forgot. "Oh yeah, I meant to say that, but it slipped my mind."

But how would he explain this:

During his presentation at the United Nations, Powell provided this translation of an intercepted conversation between Iraqi army officers:

"They're inspecting the ammunition you have, yes.
"Yes.
"For the possibility there are forbidden ammo.
"For the possibility there is by chance forbidden ammo?
"Yes.
"And we sent you a message yesterday to clean out all of the areas, the scrap areas, the abandoned areas. Make sure there is nothing there."

The incriminating phrases "clean all of the areas" and "Make sure there is nothing there" do not appear in the official State Department translation of the exchange. Powell was writing fictional dialogue. He put those extra lines in there and pretended somebody had said them.

For most of his presentation, Powell wasn't inventing dialogue, but he was presenting as facts numerous claims that his own staff had warned him were weak and indefensible.

Powell told the UN and the world: "We know that Saddam’s son, Qusay, ordered the removal of all prohibited weapons from Saddam's numerous palace complexes." The January 31, 2003, evaluation of Powell's draft remarks prepared for him by the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research ("INR") flagged this claim as "WEAK".

Regarding alleged Iraqi concealment of key files, Powell said: "key files from military and scientific establishments have been placed in cars that are being driven around the countryside by Iraqi intelligence agents to avoid detection." The January 31, 2003 INR evaluation flagged this claim as "WEAK" and added "Plausibility open to question." A Feb. 3, 2003, INR evaluation of a subsequent draft of Powell's remarks noted: "Page 4, last bullet, re key files being driven around in cars to avoid inspectors. This claim is highly questionable and promises to be targeted by critics and possibly UN inspection officials as well." That didn't stop Powell from stating it as fact and apparently hoping that, even if UN inspectors thought he was a brazen liar, US media outlets wouldn't tell anyone.

On the issue of biological weapons and dispersal equipment, Powell said: "we know from sources that a missile brigade outside Baghdad was disbursing rocket launchers and warheads containing biological warfare agents to various locations, distributing them to various locations in western Iraq." The January 31, 2003, INR evaluation flagged this claim as: "WEAK. Missiles with biological warheads reportedly dispersed. This would be somewhat true in terms of short-range missiles with conventional warheads, but is questionable in terms of longer-range missiles or biological warheads."

This claim was again flagged in the February 3, 2003, evaluation of a subsequent draft of Powell's presentation: "Page 5. first para, claim re missile brigade dispersing rocket launchers and BW warheads. This claim too is highly questionable and might be subjected to criticism by UN inspection officials." That didn't stop Colin. In fact, he brought out visual aids to help with his lying. Powell showed a slide of a satellite photograph of an Iraqi munitions bunker, and lied:

"The two arrows indicate the presence of sure signs that the bunkers are storing chemical munitions . . . he truck you <...> see is a signature item. It's a decontamination vehicle in case something goes wrong." The January 31, 2003, INR evaluation flagged this claim as "WEAK" and added: "We support much of this discussion, but we note that decontamination vehicles – cited several times in the text – are water trucks that can have legitimate uses... Iraq has given UNMOVIC what may be a plausible account for this activity – that this was an exercise involving the movement of conventional explosives; presence of a fire safety truck (water truck, which could also be used as a decontamination vehicle) is common in such an event." Powell's own staff had told him the thing was a water truck, but he told the U.N. it was "a signature item…a decontamination vehicle." The UN was going to need a decontamination vehicle itself by the time Powell finished spewing his lies and disgracing his country.

He just kept piling it on: "UAVs outfitted with spray tanks constitute an ideal method for launching a terrorist attack using biological weapons," he said. The January 31, 2003, INR evaluation flagged this statement as "WEAK" and added: "the claim that experts agree UAVs fitted with spray tanks are 'an ideal method for launching a terrorist attack using biological weapons' is WEAK." In other words, experts did NOT agree with that claim.

Powell kept going, announcing "in mid-December weapons experts at one facility were replaced by Iraqi intelligence agents who were to deceive inspectors about the work that was being done there." The January 31, 2003, INR evaluation flagged this claim as "WEAK" and "not credible" and "open to criticism, particularly by the UN inspectorates." His staff was warning him that what he planned to say would not be believed by his audience, which would include the people with actual knowledge of the matter. To Powell that was no matter.

Powell, no doubt figuring he was in deep already, so what did he have to lose, went on to tell the UN: "On orders from Saddam Hussein, Iraqi officials issued a false death certificate for one scientist, and he was sent into hiding." The January 31, 2003, INR evaluation flagged this claim as "WEAK" and called it "Not implausible, but UN inspectors might question it. (Note: Draft states it as fact.)" And Powell stated it as fact. Notice that his staff was not able to say there was any evidence for the claim, but rather that it was "not implausible." That was the best they could come up with. In other words: "They might buy this one, Sir, but don't count on it."

Powell, however, wasn't satisfied lying about one scientist. He had to have a dozen. He told the United Nations: "A dozen experts have been placed under house arrest, not in their own houses, but as a group at one of Saddam Hussein's guest houses." The January 31, 2003, INR evaluation flagged this claim as "WEAK" and "Highly questionable." This one didn't even merit a "Not implausible."

Powell also said: "In the middle of January, experts at one facility that was related to weapons of mass destruction, those experts had been ordered to stay home from work to avoid the inspectors. Workers from other Iraqi military facilities not engaged in elicit weapons projects were to replace the workers who’d been sent home." Powell's staff called this "WEAK," with "Plausibility open to question."

All of this stuff sounded plausible enough to viewers of Fox, CNN, and MSNBC. And that, we can see now, was what interested Powell. But it must have sounded highly implausible to the U.N. inspectors. Here was a guy who had not been with them on any of their inspections coming in to tell them what had happened. We know from Scott Ritter, who led many UNSCOM inspections in Iraq, that U.S. inspectors had used the access that the inspection process afforded them to spy for, and to set up means of data collection for, the CIA. So there was some plausibility to the idea that an American could come back to the UN and inform the UN what had really happened on its inspections. Yet, repeatedly, Powell's staff warned him that the specific claims he wanted to make were not going to even sound plausible. They will be recorded by history more simply as blatant lies facilitating the murder of over a million human beings.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. If Obama trusts Powell its not for us to second guess him at this stage
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. At what stage do we get to question Obama on his judgement
concerning Powell? Tomorrow? Never?
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Obama said that Powell will be one of his advisor, so you have two options:
1. Vote for someone else.
2. Run for public office yourself.

I'm looking forward to your presidential exploratory committee. :rofl:

FYI: This is how Obama addressed some hecklers who accused him of not speaking out on certain issues.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. You do realize that Powell supports the Iraq War still, right?
Considering your own name on DU, I figured you'd be more uncomfortable with Powell being used an any capacity by Obama than many other folks here.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Yes, that is odd.
"End the War!!!, I'm cool with war criminals!!!"
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Powell isn't a war criminal in strict legal terms...
If he were actually sent to the Hague, he would be accused of "Crimes against Peace" which is a separate charge altogether. He had no capacity to commit war crimes while Secretary of State, but he definitely is guilty of helping to wage a war of aggression against Iraq.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. ...no, just in spirit --!!!
Edited on Mon Oct-20-08 03:12 PM by defendandprotect
Yet, 4000+ of our troops are dead and 200,000 Muslims!
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. No shit, and Powell bears some responsibility for that...
he deserves prison, that much is obvious, but make sure you accuse him of the right crime first. War Crimes are crimes that occur DURING a war, Powell's crimes occurred BEFORE the war.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
43. I think he was also in on some of the torture meetings.
This would make him a war criminal by definition.

Last month the Senate Armed Services Committee received new material from Condoleezza Rice, the first Cabinet-level official to confirm high-level involvement in discussions on interrogation techniques. “I participated in a number of meetings in 2002 and 2003 ... at which issues relating to detainees in US custody, including interrogation issues, were discussed,” she said. Those present at such meetings included Rumsfeld, Attorney General John Ashcroft, Colin Powell, Paul Wolfowitz and CIA Director George Tenet. The meetings, which concerned the CIA program, “occurred inside the White House”. Rice confirmed she was aware of the existence of, but did not read, the Justice Department legal advice of Aug. 1, 2002 that abandoned the international definition of torture and replaced it with a definition drawn from a US Medicare statute.

http://pakobserver.net/200810/20/news/world05.asp

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
59. There are crimes against humanity . . . which we all understand --
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
69. Illegal invasions aren't war crimes? nt
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. And I am looking forward to a murderer and a Bush Butt Boy on Obama's team
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. reductio ad fascism
vote for the fuhrer and shut up

or find a random pile of $500,000,000 lying around and launch your own campaign

speech has never been so free

liberty is on the march

I'll stick with shaming Obama out of working with Powell and working to get Powell indicted

Have a nice nap beginning Nov 5th - when will we hear from you again? October 2012?
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. how about if powell turns state's evidence against bushco next year? n/t
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. LOL, that's funny!
Talk about living in a fantasy world, here is what's going to happen to the Bush Administration next year, he and Cheney, along with most of his administration, will retire from politics, probably be on the board of a few corporations here and there, and try to stay out of the limelight while making themselves even richer. Whenever they die of natural causes, they will be given state funerals, history may judge them harshly, their contemporaries, however, will treat them with kid gloves.
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
57. Based on past experience with these criminals, that's 100% likely.
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
56. A nicely turned phrase.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. ?
:rofl: ? :eyes:
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
68. What kind of dictatorial either/or take it or leave it ultimatum is that?
Coupled with argument by smiley and ridicule.

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ForrestGump Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
33. Most likely

on the evening of January 20, 2009.

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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
80. January 21st, 2009
Since you asked.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. do you apply that to any murderers
even small-time ones?

or just Powell?
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. WOW! Whatever politics it might call itself, that's a 100% undemocratic, slavish, statement.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
50. TR said it best:
"To state there is to be no questioning of the President, right or wrong, is not only servile but the most morally treasonous thing a man can do"
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Yes, it's because the US has produced such leaders and thinkers that the world is impressed.
In this case I should say in particular that I'm speaking as a Canadian.

'Impressed' yes; 'free pass' no. What impresses people doesn't come from a free pass. What comes from a free pass are leaders like George Bush, and the whole stinking bunch of them going back to Ronald Reagan and Nixon. And let me say, the dishonor of it all.

Consider the dishonor outlined by this post by RedEarth to DU:
McCain linked to group in Iran-Contra affair
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3554836

Consider the total offensiveness of the terrorist activities described. Put them on a scale and measure them against notions such as "accountability". The equation is:

no accountability = free pass

To my mind, that's what this election SHOULD be about.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. New Rule . . . use your head and second guess any decision like this one--!!!
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. If Obama wanted to make Higgins The Cat his Secretary of State, I'd support it. n/t
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. really, trust obama blindly?
mmmmmmmmmmm, nah.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #45
64. this blind devotion shit reminds me of freepers
:puke:
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. and is equally dangerous. nt
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
49. Voting for someone does not mean suspending your critical thinking!
Last I checked this is a democracy and part of democracy is questioning one's leaders ALWAYS! There are other places that believe in no questioning of the leader and the leader is always right, and I don't think those need to be named explicitly for people to know what I'm talking about.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. This is the absolute truth!
Our system is based on not trusting our leaders. Obama, for all his brilliance, should not get a free pass.

--IMM
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
60. Sorry! I will, indeed, second guess Sen. Obama on this one!
First, Sam Nunn. Opposed gays in the military
Then, Jim Cooper. Opposed healthcare reform.
Now, Colin Powell - Opposed gays in the military, Iraq War, Gitmo, Abu Grahib
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
63. LOLOLOLOLOL
yeah................ok
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
67. I disagree with you
we should always question our leaders. Always.

(However, I don't know whether I agree with the OP and think that Powell is unfit to sit in Obama's administration, myself.)


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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
77. It is our duty as responsible citizens to question everyone.
To blindly accept a policy or personality without question is how we got into this mess
in the first place. Too many people felt blind allegiance to the republican party called
for the suspension of critical thinking and rigorous debate.

Dems don't need to make the same mistake.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Powell did the smart thing
and distanced himself from the administration. He is an ambitious man. But I do believe he met his limits and embraced them by stepping down. Maybe he has a conscience, unlike Rove, Cheney, Rummy, and shrub.


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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sycophantic "yes men" are always in demand for politicians.
A job that Colin Powell has won medals for.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Obama should use Powell until he wins the election, then kick him to the curb...
Ideally, I would like Obama to open up criminal investigations into all the Bush administration, including Powell, that leads to their conviction and imprisonment. But, having doubted that will happen, I guess I'll settle for Powell dying in some obscurity, and then let history judge him harshly.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. And he should use that boot the Aussies used on Bart Simpson
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dudewheresmycountry Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well David, you did good!
as per say your facts are correct and in order, although we will see if Powell's words bring any republicans to vote for Barack, which of course is what this is all about. I also agree with you Powell has no place in government with the exception of a federal prison. Powell's stating to Bush if you break it you own it. My statement is, if you lie for the president to go to war, you own it and should pay for your actions. Respectfully
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. federal prison
would be ok
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. rec for this post alone, but your op's good too
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. (D)s are supposed to embrace war criminals, or else you're full of hate!
Forget justice, accountability, laws, morality, Geneva, Nuremberg: all just little nothings for "good" (D)s to toss out the window.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Powell just doesn't like hanging around losers. . .
and he smells L-O-S-E-R in McCain-Palin.

Powell's only loyalty is to Powell.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. I recommended this already
Edited on Mon Oct-20-08 03:14 PM by Solly Mack
so now I'll use an enhanced thread kicking technique on it

But I do so in good faith and with assurance that it's legal to do so
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. Also Important:
The issue was NOT just whether Hussein had WMD's. The issue was, was the threat that he'd use them against us not only so real but also SO IMMINENT that we could not afford even to let the U.N. inspectors complete their work? I mean, like, Hussein had to have had the ability and desire to drop a major WMD on us within months, not years.

Whatever the evidence of WMD's (and plenty of us recognized it as tenuous at best), no one ever presented credible evidence that Hussein would have the capability, let alone the desire, to deliver that kind of attack any time soon.

Powell knew the case for war didn't exist, and when asked to make it, he should have resigned.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Exactly
And without a push from him, the snowball may never have started with the momentum it had- no supporting troops from other countries(Other than Tony Blair), for instance.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. And it's not only his performance regarding Iraq, torture and wiretapping.
That was just the last chapter in a career of skirting and breaking the law and then lying about it.

Colin Powell only looked like the "good guy" in the Bush administration. In fact, that was his job: the good cop. His history is as checkered as Cheney's and Rumsfeld's was.
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azul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. The authoritarian in uniform for the big-business/military empire.
Behind Colin Powell's Legend

The Original Five-Part Series

Behind Colin Powell's Legend: Part One
Retired Gen. Colin Powell has given some legitimacy to George W. Bush's dubious election. But what's the real story behind the Powell legend, from My Lai to Iran-contra to the Persian Gulf War? By Robert Parry & Norman Solomon. December 17, 2000.

Behind Colin Powell's Legend: Part Two
Colin Powell emerged from the Iran-contra scandal with his reputation intact, but a review of the secret evidence shows that the scandal might never have happened but for Powell's circumventing Pentagon rules -- and flouting the law. December 19, 2000

Behind Colin Powell's Legend: Part Three
In late 1986, the desperate call went out to Gen. Colin Powell at his command in West Germany. He was needed back in Washington to save Ronald Reagan. December 22, 2000

Behind Colin Powell's Legend: Part Four
Colin Powell achieved his icon status through his command of U.S. forces in the Panama invasion and the Persian Gulf War. But his acclaim came at a price. December 26, 2000

Behind Colin Powell's Legend: Part Five
Gen. Powell's reputation for integrity dodged a bullet when President George H.W. Bush halted the Iran-contra investigation in late 1992. This last segment of the series shows how Powell went on to near-universal acclaim with the Washington press corps. December 27, 2000

http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/powell.html
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lelgt60 Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
27. It could benefit Powell to be brought to trial...
If he's innocent in any way - if he was lied to - then he will be acquitted, and more importantly, we will see evidence we wouldn't otherwise see. A trial is Powell's best chance of clearing his name in any way.

As far as working in the Obama administration, I just can't see it. He's a Republican. He freely chose to be a Republican. He might prefer Obama to McCain, but his fundamental policies are not Obama's.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
30. has obama said he wants powell
as part of his administration?
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. He opened up the possiblity, but put it in Powell's hands, he also said...
he'd like Powell to be an adviser, in what capacity, I'm not sure.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. I was thinkin something like Chief UnderSecretary of What NOT To Fucking Do
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. How about the position of Chief Defendant in his own trial?
That has a nice ring to it! :)
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. Indeed it does.
it's almost like we have gone back to those days when kings and princes ruled the lands. They could do anything they wanted to do and would never be punished for their evil deeds unless their kingdom was overthrown. Except now even when you get deposed by election you never get punished for your evil deeds.

Let's see if we can't get rid of that system and try for a new one called accountability to the law.

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #30
72. Obama: Powell will have a role in administration
By LAURIE KELLMAN – 1 day ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — With or without a formal title, Colin Powell will have Barack Obama's ear if the Democratic presidential candidate wins the White House in the Nov. 4 election, the candidate said Monday.

"He will have a role as one of my advisers," Barack Obama said on NBC's "Today" in an interview aired Monday, a day after Powell, a four-star general and President Bush's former secretary of state, endorsed him.

"Whether he wants to take a formal role, whether that's a good fit for him, is something we'd have to discuss," Obama said.

more: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5isOFwdbq0tsqatW6vJpkDRTI1gMgD93UAVE80
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R
Edited on Mon Oct-20-08 04:29 PM by balantz
I thought we all wanted to end the illegal aggressions by the corporate powers. He still supports the "wars" doesn't he?

Powell helped us get into this horror.

He needs to confess to his crimes.
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. This was my first reaction too...
but after thinking a little, it occurred to me that there might be a spot or two for Powell in an Obama administration after all. Ambassador to Iraq, for one. Secretary of Veteran's Affairs for another. Either would force him to confront close up the consequences of his actions in promotion of an illegal and unnecessary invasion and occupation of Iraq. But of course, there's still the war criminal thing....
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. that's like putting the prisoner in charge of the cell...
I do believe in forgiveness and making amends. But how could he possibly have made amends for My Lei, and then lied about Iraq? He has more internal work to do at the very least.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
40. Recommended with accolades to David for his undying dedication to exposing the LIES.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
41. I have little or no respect for Powell, but his endorsement is going to help Obama win.
In return, Obama will owe Powell something. That's the way it works. I don't like it, but that's the way it works.

I'm grateful to the OP for summarizing information and keeping our feet to the fire.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Obama doesn't owe Powell shit, and should say so, after he wins the election...
Powell is a tool, if he wants to be a tool for Obama, then he should be happy to play the role. Its simple, be used now, be discarded in two weeks.
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azul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
42. Alienating as many dems as attracting repubs by this endorsement,
IMHO. Sort of like having Michael Moore suddenly decide to back McCain and say some criticisms of Obama, and McCain then saying that he would use Moore as an advisor of some sort. Just too weird.

Ends justifying the means? Some say the legend of Powell is reality and can add votes, the true reality is that America cannot afford to get fooled again by war profiteers and ideologues masquerading as security and prosperity. I don't trust him, and I don't think Obama should associate with him either.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
46. thank you, davidswanson!
but we have known this about powell. the problem is what it tell us about obama and it's not good.
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downindixie Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
48. Powell may subscribe to the
fool me once adage!
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Herman74 Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
51. Hopefully Obama uses Powell as nothing more than an informal, sporadic advisor...
...and only on a few specific issues.
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Herman74 Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
52. Powell is really messed up. He knew that the aluminum-tubes-for-nukes stuff wasn't...
Edited on Mon Oct-20-08 08:47 PM by Herman74
...supported by the U.S. scientific community, yet he went ahead with pushing it anyway. Heck, some guy working for Powell went on "60 Minutes" and said the aluminum tubes crap was crap.

Please, Obama, if you feel you must use Powell, use him only as an occasional advisor. There are wiser people out there (Al Gore, Jimmy Carter, Bob Graham, etc.) who can better advise you.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #52
61. Well, those just listed really don't have much to do with military advisement.
Gen. Powell is an older man. He is retired and make a lot more money making speaking tours...

AND if they didn't put away Kissinger, Powell is going to live out the rest of his life enjoying freedom, his wife, his children, and his grandchildren. I believe the deal was, endorse and you will be kept out of the criminal round-up. Obama is not going to go after Powell. Most think this man is a legend and most people respect him... besides his being the first African American to achieve high level status is historic.

I don't think he will be in the administration. He said he has no plans to return to any office... I think he should remain retired.. and in any upcoming investigations: spill the beans and make it easier for Obama to route out the scum that need to removed from power.
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Pauper Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
53. Iraqis and Americans died in part because of Powell
Lies kill.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
62. It might be smarter to go with someone new anyway.
We have a broader pool of talent, than to use the same people over again. I'd like to see Wes Clark instead. And I wouldn't mind disagreeing with Obama on that. I think we should continue to make our opinions known, rather than leave a vacuum for only the insiders to fill.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
65. K&R n/t
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
70. recommended! Powell belongs in a prison cell, not the white house....
eom
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
71. Obama has made it this far by running as a moderate and ignoring the far left
Full steam ahead to November 4th!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #71
76. Yes, that's right. And it's funny how ignoring the "far left" always means
having to clean up the messes that the "far left" warned about while they were being ignored. Except when you can't undo them because people are dead, of course.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #71
78. Says the person who STILL doesn't understand that Gore was wrong about NAFTA...
Your sig pic is a joke, the punchline to which you don't get. :hi:
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
73. Hold your noses and accept it folks
In a perfectly just world the whole Bush cabal would be turfed off to jail, but many on this thread are speaking in anger and not thinking about the whole picture. I am angry at the whole lot as well, but one has to separate the 'real' world from the 'political' world.

The Democrats also have many "Blue Dogs" in their midst. Mostly from the Southern States, they know they can only get re-elected if they vote ultra-conservative, many times against their own party. It is disgusting to watch. But if I take off my liberal blinders, I can understand that unfortunately it is better to have a Blue Dog that will at least vote for more progressive bills SOME of the time, than have a Repuke in there voting against those bills automatically, or worse tipping the majority of the House. Perhaps at some future date, if Obama brings back the Fairness Doctrine, and voters in Rush country actually get to hear the truth again, the Democratic candidate may be a more progressive one. But for now, that is the way it is in the "political world".

The same principle is in play with Powell. He stated that that presentation, in hindsight was the lowest point in his life. His behavior has been described as just being a loyal soldier, and I can see that. He felt at the time that his opinion of taking a more cautious approach to an invasion was the minority position in the administration so he conceded and went with the majority. I'm not making excuses as he should have resigned IMO, but that is an explanation. At least he is the only one of those assholes that actually now speaks out against much of the Bush Doctrine.

In the 'political' world, Powell's endorsement will help Obama. As well Powell's participation in an Obama administration would also help keep Obama legit in many Independents eyes. I know I know it's all wrong...in the real world. But in the political world it works. Accept it and move on people.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. thanks for the voice of reason
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #73
75. Powell says it was his lowest point because the whole world saw
what a criminal he is. When he was trying to hide My Lai or when he was colluding with torture and spying, it was behind closed doors, right?

Obama has now put lipstick on a pig. I hope he gets what he wants out of it but, the pig is still a felon.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #73
79. Change! nt
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
81. 'They will be recorded by history more simply as blatant lies
facilitating the murder of over a million human beings.'

I was ripped to shreds for saying basically the same thing over the weekend. It's funny how some people can write something and have DU viciously attack them to the point of considering quitting DU, but then someone who is perceived as respectable says the same thing and an actual conversation follows.

Go figure.
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The Leveller Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
82. There's another way of looking at it
which might suggest Powell is imminently qualified which is why he gets the position as head courtier on the Ship of State. Once you see that you may come to some different conclusions. Powell by any measure has much blood on his hands from My Lai to Iraq and in many other less talked about locales. The fact that Obama embraces him should not come as a surprise as Obama has not ever considered the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq to be a crime.

Powell should be fully repudiated and yet he is lauded and embraced.

Here is the recent excerpt which Powell defends the Iraq War and in fact only regrets that the US did not go in even more aggressively. How many lies can you count in just this short excerpt?


Reporter: Mr. Secretary, there were a number of chinks in your own armor, actually, because of the lead-up to the Iraq war and the events. How much did that play into your decision about this? And will it be taken perhaps by some, because of your previous high-profile position, won't it be taken by some as a repudiation of the Iraq war?

Powell: I don't know why. The Iraq war is the Iraq war. We now see that things are a lot better in Iraq. Maybe if we had put a surge in at the beginning, it would have been a lot better years ago, but it's a lot better now, and we can see ahead to where U.S. forces will start to come out. And so, my concern was not my past or what happened in Iraq, but where we're going in the future. My sole concern was where are we going after January 20 of 2009, not what happened in 2003.

I'm well aware of the role I played. My role has been very, very straightforward. I wanted to avoid a war. The president agreed with me. We tried to do that. We couldn't get it through the U.N. and when the president made the decision, I supported that decision. And I've never blinked from that. I've never said I didn't support a decision to go to war.

And the war looked great until the 9th of April, when the statue fell, everybody thought it was terrific. And it was terrific. The troops had done a great job. But then we failed to understand that the war really was not over, that a new phase of the war was beginning. And we weren't ready for it and we didn't respond to it well enough, and things went very, very -- very, very south, very bad.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/powell.transcript/
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