What the hell is this crap? Why is Colin Powell suddenly wonder

[blues90]

fucking full!

You know this just blows my mind. Has everyone forgotten that this was the freak who sat in front of the UN with his vial of white powder and his artsy drawings of the mobile WMD's , one of the main freaks who raved and lied us into this horrific attack on Iraq and now since he tips his hat to Obama he is suddenly someone who I am supposed to respect. Hell he could rave about John Lennon and I would still feel Powell was human waste.

Then there is the NYT's , the very paper who pushed this FOGOTTEN occuaption of mass death and no one seems to remember or care.

Even the liberal talk show hosts are giving these freaks a break.

I must live in surreal world or have fallen completely through the looking glass or Orwells 1984 has talken over completely and we just can't see it at all.

Up is down and down is up, well no fucking shit man!!!

Is this what we have really come to, the height of the dumbed down society we have been warned not to fall into , the very thing we have been trying to avoid.

I just can't get over it or believe this insanity.

There has got to be available footage of Powell in front of the UN and the NY Times archives from that time , look at them and then come back and tell me what you really think of what I've said here.

How can it still be so easy to brainwash america when one would think we would be on high alert to these insane makeovers of some freak like Powell.

I could say the same about a VP but I won't . I remember very well how most all of the Liberal talk show hosts could not say enough bad about Powell and the NY Times and the other fellow , now they are the gift.

The media truely does have all the control and has for decades and still do.

I refuse to go down buying into this twist and turn lie world of insanity brought to you by clean coal and Exxon , GE and your friendly phone company.

Christ , I'll bet if you planted seeds that the package said corn , mushrooms would sprout up. Think about that.

[Faygo Kid]

1. I don't respect him, but I understand that this will help Obama.

That's all it is about for me.

[oldtime dfl_er]

6. Me too

well articulated.

[Javaman]

93. nail on head. nt

[lostnotforgotten]

2. I Agree Despite His Endorsement

eom

[Sukie]

10. I disagree. He was mislead like a majority of people were

mislead. People make mistakes. It is how they learn from those mistakes that make the difference. If you listened to how he reasoned his endorsement, you would realize that he is a good guy who wants basically what we all want for this nation and this world.

[lostnotforgotten]

15. He Later Said He Knew All The BS He Said At The UN Was A Lie

That does not sound like being duped to most people!

[traveller]

19. and he lied anyway

[NashVegas]

17. Oh, Please!

What documents did members of DU have that Colin Powell didn't?

[TankLV]

43. WE HAD OUR OWN FUCKING BRAINS AND EYES AND EARS GODDAMMIT!!!

EVERYTHING that bunkerboy and the repukes had said is/was FALSE!

THEY HAD FUCKING "SKETCHES" OF THE CRAP - NOT ACTUAL PICTURES LIKE KENNEDY DID - FUCKING "SKETCHES"!

That's when any but IDIOTS could KNOW they were LYING their asses off...

[lostnotforgotten]

38. So Why Did He Not Learn From His My Lai Lies?

eom

[TBF]

103. very good point.

[KG]

47. he's never been mis-led. he's been a murderous liar entire career.

please get educated about colin powell.

[truedelphi]

52. I agree with your assessment of Powell - but if he and others

Want to endorse Obama, so much the better.

Eight years of Bush have made so many people so mad that even the KKK endorsing Obama would not surprise me (Oh okay, I would be surprised - but no more so than when many other things that have come to pass. Like 9/11, the Downy Street Memo, Katrina and its no response, wire taps and spying, Gitmo, re-organizing the DOJ and FBI, the financial crisis,etc)

[marions ghost]

79. Powell's too smart for that lame excuse

He "made mistakes" fully KNOWING what he was doing. He was betting on a more successful outcome to the occupation. Powell bet on the wrong horse and got caught in the muck himself. You may not think he's a war criminal, but he is still one of the bad guys, someone who sold his own soul. He did have choices at the time. Now he is now trying to right himself and that is to his credit, but he has a LOT to atone for. We must hold these people responsible for Iraq or it will happen again and again.

Endorsing Obama does not excuse the fact that Powell went down the bad road, a very bad road. There's no need to whitewash this.

[MichiganVote]

3. Agree. Too early for broadbased redemption soley b/c of an endorsement.

[saltpoint]

4. In 17 days voters will elect a new president. Powell's endorsement helps

our guy and hurts their guy.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

25. That's it

I despise Powell for what he's not done, and for what he's done, but if he swings any votes to Obama, that's good.

After that, who cares?

[Toasterlad]

107. So...The Ends Justify the Means.

[ibegurpard]

5. The endorsement has a lot of political value

Other than that I can't disagree with you

[Donnachaidh]

7. Powell's looking for a job - hence the endorsement

OR perhaps he is worried that he will find himself under the scrutiny of potential war crime investigations - so he's making the first move and hoping the endorsement will clean up his *history*.

It shouldn't - but we'll have to wait and see on that. :shrug:

[Buzz Clik]

18. You forgot to watch his spot this morning. The video is available. Give it a look.

[Donnachaidh]

82. watched it -- doesn't change my opinion of him

Sorry -- he's hat in hand, looking for a job. And he doesn't deserve one - in fact, he doesn't deserve THIS interview. The man is a WAR Criminal. I'm not going to split hairs as some on this board has -- he was the *good german* for Bush.

There are far too many people willing to turn the other cheek for Powell.

[NNN0LHI]

8. You act like you would have rather had him back McCain

Is that the case?

Don

[blues90]

24. Not at all , this is not about McCain, this is about a liar

Someone who should be gone from the platform in any way , shape or form . It's like having Torture Boy endorse Obama or a snake like Rummy.

[EV_Ares]

9. It is a great endorsement to have. Go back and look at how many dems

voted for the war. That was then and now is now and I agree, this helps Obama in a really good way.

[blues90]

45. If you go back , it was 9/11 that brought the fear in and Powell

along with this admin and all it's enablers ramped this fear up to the point where even some normally level headed Dems thought we should attack. Get the evil doers at all costs.

Well if anyone at the point knew the reality of this enormous lie it was powell and he promoted it, he sold it and stood behind it until he saw the lies begin to show like lint in a black light, his lies.

[EV_Ares]

66. You can keep hanging on to that about Powell all you want and live in that

crap. He along with many other very good and wise people for whatever reasons we may never know. However, he explained his today of which you can continue to ignore. Regardless, it looks like the consensus of most who are living in reality and of the party you evidently support I think, that this is a very good endorsement for Obama. I am sure Obama welcomes it as well.

Powell is a well respected man around the world and respected by all people of both parties and if you choose to ignore that, your loss.

[blues90]

69. Here's some reality for you

Bill Clinton was highly respected around the world too but very many people tore him down and for a lot less damage than Powell brought forth. And it was all from the same party for the most part.

Just what part of the world respects Powell , certainly not Iraq or Vietnam . Where do you get your information that Powell was respected by all people from both parties and around the world.

Why not elaborate on that a bit rather than simply tossing it out there as a truth?

[EV_Ares]

70. LOL, that is the most laughable post I have seen in a long time. Thanks for

that one, a little humor is always good for the soul. As for your question, it does not need elaborating on. Just go read and pay attention, you might learn something about it. Now, I am done with this nonsense and will move on to "reality" and something constructive.

[blues90]

75. Go look at some photo's of Iraq , there is your reality of Powell

and all his great efforts just doing his job.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

105. You are aware the exact same argument could be used against all the Dems who voted on it as well n/t

[blues90]

106. oh absolutely !

That is part of the problem i have with the entire election as well as the dems promise to end the occupation they ran on this in 2006. Yet here we are still in the same place.

[gopbuster]

11. Colin Powell's juxtaposition on the occupation as disconcerting as it may be

There are several things about this man in his core beliefs that Dems should be able to relate to.

He is a military man who's obligation to his country is in our National Defense

Beginning with the Powell Doctrine (very rational)

1. Is a vital national security interest threatened?
2. Do we have a clear attainable objective?
3. Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?
4. Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?
5. Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?
6. Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?
7. Is the action supported by the American people?
8. Do we have genuine broad international support?<1>

From Wikpedia:

Powell was the subject of controversy in 2004 when, in a conversation with British Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, he reportedly referred to neoconservatives within the Bush administration as "fucking crazies"

A moderate Republican, Powell is well known for his willingness to support liberal or centrist causes.<30> He is pro-choice regarding abortion, and in favor of "reasonable" gun control.<30> He stated in his autobiography that he supports affirmative action that levels the playing field, without giving a leg up to undeserving person because of racial issues. Powell was also instrumental in the implementation of the military's Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy.<30>

---------

In July 2007 Powell revealed that he spent two and a half hours trying to persuade George W. Bush not to invade Iraq but that he did not prevail. At the Aspen Ideas Festival in Colorado<40> Powell stated, "I tried to avoid this war. I took him through the consequences of going into an Arab country and becoming the occupiers."<41>

----------

Powell went on to say that he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war. "The civil war will ultimately be resolved by a test of arms. It's not going to be pretty to watch, but I don't know any way to avoid it. It is happening now." He further noted, "It is not a civil war that can be put down or solved by the armed forces of the United States," and suggested that all the U.S. military could do was put "a heavier lid on this pot of boiling sectarian stew".<42>


----------


n September 2005, Powell was asked about the speech during an interview with Barbara Walters and responded that it was a "blot" on his record. He went on to say, "It will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It's painful now."<16>

----------------

He understands torture is undermining our standing in the world and is wrong.

-----------------

Here is the latest Wikpedia Entry:

2008 U.S. Presidential endorsement

On October 19, 2008, Colin Powell appeared on the NBC program Meet the Press to announce that he would be voting for Senator Barack Obama in the 2008 U.S. Presidential election. Powell referred to the Republican candidate, John McCain, as a "friend of over 25 years," but cited several points that had led him to decide in favor of Obama. Powell said that in response to an ongoing financial crisis "Mr. McCain was a little unsure as to how to deal with the economic problems we're facing." He said of McCain's choice of Vice-Presidential running mate, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, "I don't believe she's ready to be President of the United States."

Speaking of the Democratic candidate, Powell mentioned Obama's "intellectual vigor" and what he described as the inclusiveness of Obama's campaign, as opposed to the "narrower and narrower" approach of the Republican party. Powell was dismissive of the McCain campaign making "almost a central issue" of Obama's association with William Ayers, calling it "a stretch." He said that he was disappointed by the Republican party's move to the right, and Palin's indications of a further trend in that direction. In particular, Powell mentioned that "high-level" Republicans had repeated to him the rumor that Obama is a Muslim. Powell said, "He's not a Muslim. He's a Christian; he's always been a Christian," and condemned the notion of Islamic faith as a disqualification from the Presidency. He told the story of a Muslim American soldier who died in the Iraq war, and asked, "Is there something wrong with a seven-year-old Muslim kid thinking he or she could be President?"

Meet the Press host Tom Brokaw asked Powell for a response to the sentiment that Powell may be endorsing Obama because both Powell and Obama are African-American. Powell said that if that were the basis for his decision, he could have made an endorsement "six or eight months ago," but he had only come to a conclusion relatively recently.

------------

But the real bottom line is that he will help to pull the undecideds into our camp.

Anything to win!

[Sukie]

23. Good post. Thank you. nt

[EV_Ares]

65. Excellent post, you are exactly right.

[NeedleCast]

92. Well Said

"But the real bottom line is that he will help to pull the undecideds into our camp."

That's exactly right. Powell is very well respected among most moderates. I've always liked him even though I haven't always agreed with him. It takes a strong person to come out and basically say that the party or political organization you've backed your whole life isn't what it used to be and needs a serious wake up call.

[glowing]

12. Once you realize this world is full of gray and get off of the black and white

issues, then you will be more understanding of people, of issues, of the basis of humanity.

I'm not saying that he is something to ride home about.. but the world is NOT black and white...

[blues90]

36. I realize the world is not black and white

But to allow the shades of gray to merge into solid white or black is then ignorance when people won't even see it.

[EFerrari]

13. Do we know no one is being tortured today in the program he helped create?

I'm glad Obama denied McBigot of this endorsement but this man is human waste.

[blues90]

31. No we don't , good point .

[dkofos]

14. The only thing he could do to gain my respect would be to turn himself in to the Hague!!

[Buzz Clik]

16. Interesting rant. You assume everyone here has always hated Colin Powell.

[blues90]

34. I didn't say always , I said after what he has done .

You must know what he has done and you think he comes now with merit of some sort?

I can partly understand a mother loving a child who killed someone but this is not even close to the same thing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Oh, well. Endorsements by war criminals might get a few votes, that's all that matters.

Kinda like having a turd in your salad to draw a few flies.

[Warpy]

21. This is what they mean by "the big mo"

as in momentum. It's when the race looks to be decided and all the Johnny come latelys jump on the bandwagon in order to be associated with the winning team. Yay team.

Having said that, I'm grateful Powell finally spoke. I think his endorsement means quite a lot to retired military folks in this state and active military brass elsewhere. It gives them the freedom to prefer a Democrat, something very difficult for military who have undergone so many years of pro GOP brainwashing.

We need to take everything we can get. We know we have the votes, but we also know they will cheat every way they can, trying to make the election close instead of a humiliating landslide.

Powell's endorsement means something. Foot dragging newspapers, not so much.

[Vanje]

22. He's right. This time.

He was wrong then.
This time he's right

[Believing Is Art]

26. The same amount of blood is still on his hands

He can't change that, but he has decided to prevent acquiring any more. I still think there's a special spot in hell for him, but maybe he cut down the time of his term.

[blues90]

28. You can't really believe that can you?

That blood will never come off, never!!!!!!!! Tens of thousands have died for NOTHING because of this freak, how much blood does that amount too?

[Believing Is Art]

63. I didn't say it would

But despite that, I think he has the right to make better decisions now. Saying someone is damned for their past actions despite however good their future ones may be is a philosophy that does not bode well with me.

[CoffeeCat]

27. I will say this.....

The neocons are a evil stain on this country, and they are the ones who spearheaded the Iraq war.

Their evil is limitless and they hate democracy and the US Constitution.

Powell is not a neocon. He insults the neocons every chance he gets.

Yes, he went along with the Iraq war and that certainly isn't going to score him any points with me.

He served the President, advised against the war but went along--because he served the President.

Being appointed by the President to give advice--and going along--is not the same as the neocon scum who hatched the plan, orchestrated the entire Iraq war and have disdain for American and her people.

Colin Powell is not like that. Is Colin Powell a Dennis Kucinich? Or a Noam Chomsky? Hello no!

However, he's a Republican who is not part of the reptilian neocon pieces of trash who are destroying
this country. I disagree with Powell's past behavior, and I also disagree with many of his political
views. However, there are some Republicans who are decent people--I just don't share their political
views, but they are moral, compassionate people. That's a long way from the sick, perverted neocons, and
I think that distinction is important, and it's important that Powell is not in that camp.

[endthewar]

29. Exactly. Neoconservatives hijacked the Republican Party and have placed our country at risk.

[Sukie]

40. Obviously, a lot of people here are not or never have been

soldiers. A soldier does not have the capacity to disagree with his commander. Powell took that mentality into his job as secretary of state. As a career soldier, it was a habit hard to break. My husband was 30 years in the service and my Dad the same. I have lived with the kind of mentality it takes to be a career soldier. If some of you can't forgive, I got it. But this is extremism to the other side when you voice such hatred and contempt for someone who is not so deserving of it. He did not start this war and is not to blame for the totality of it. He is one of the few who have accepted responsibility for his mistakes. I want this country to heal united. This stuff only serves to further push the two sides apart.

[Skittles]

74. LOL

"Yes, he went along with the Iraq war and that certainly isn't going to score him any points with me."

O.M.F.G.

[Generic Other]

30. It's about continuity of power and building some bridges

Bushies will start a bonfire on the way out. Shred the secrets. We need someone who knows what was going on the last few years. We don't want to be in a position of being in control of the government but not in control of the secrets. We need to try and be united as a nation to face our future.

I don't like Powell or respect much about him, but I do believe he has expertise and his endorsing Obama suggests he has ability to admit he was wrong.

[blues90]

44. Are you saying that Powell is going to let out the secrets?

Of the crimes committed when he was part of them? We don't need him around for anything. For him to endorse Obama is a visual to me showing Powell walking in with a basket of blown off arms and saying I'm sorry but trust me once again.

[Generic Other]

51. your visual corresponds to mine

him lying about WMD's in front of Guernica at the UN. Still, when we control the WH, it will mean we have to be better than the bushies. I suspect Obama will reach out at times. It is after all what our Democracy is supposed to be about. Following the repugs lead of the last 20 + years is not in our country's best interest. That being said, I will be holding my nose too when Obama is forced to be conciliatory toward them.

[Sebastian Doyle]

32. What he said towards the end of his interview with Brokenjaw is what troubles me

Brokenjaw played what he said about Chimp & Cheney at the 2000 Repuke convention, and Powell says he still stands by every word of it. That he actually believes those two fucking bastards had the best of intentions when they took office in 2001.

Well that's a crock of shit, ain't it?

For Christ's sake, Colin. They STOLE the office. That should have been your first clue. The fact that virtually every cabinet member (besides yourself) was a member of a little club called PNAC should have been your second. Don't tell me you never read the PNAC agenda, General Powell.

Compassionate Conservatism?? Really, plans to build a worldwide fascist empire? Compassionate??

[wildbilln864]

33. k and fucking R! nt

:grr:

[TahitiNut]

35. Why the perpetual conflation of "message" with "messenger"???

Who the FUCK cares? It's the ENDORSEMENT that counts. Hell, I'll give the Devil his due! Tossing money in the collection plate or Santa Kettle is a Good Deed ... even when done by criminals. It does NOT eradicate other acts. Other acts, likewise, DON'T nullify the inherent rightness of such an act. Powell did the Right Thing ... this time. The brain-damaged and anal rejection of ALL acts by someone demonized for their other bad acts DOES NOT change 'good' to 'bad' ... deal with it.

Sheesh! :puke:

[blues90]

39. Well then , lets get Torture boy and Rummy to endorse too

And pat them on the back , are you fucking kidding me, with the bible lesson here.

Tell that to all the people in Iraq and here that are now red mist and see of that helps them.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LuckyLib]

37. Powell could have resigned at any number of points along the way into the mess in Iraq. He didn't.

For whatever reasons, he chose to stick by those neocon nitwits running the show. Had he stuck by basic principles and trusted his own sense that something smelled, he would have resigned. He didn't. He put on a show of shows in front of the world.
I don't want him in the Obama administration. Old baggage. As for the endorsement? Great. We'll take it.

[ibegurpard]

57. Exactly

eom

[Beregond2]

41. I agree, the man is reprehensible.

Nevertheless, his endorsement will help with people who respect authoritarian figures no matter what they do, and unfortunately, that is a big slice of America. So I'm glad it happened, even though I loathe the man.

[TankLV]

42. You are not alone...

but even a "broken clock" is correct two times a day...

and powell is about a broken as it gets...

[progressivebydesign]

48. Are people going to post this stuff ALL DAY? Why not join someone else's thread..

then you can sit and be purists and watch as we democrats piss away another election .

[TahitiNut]

56. Maybe they should get together and form "Democrats Against ANY Republicans Voting For Obama" ...

... and REALLY get their self-righteous stiffies measured.

:rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

49. Point to some praise of Powell, please.

To equate someone saying the endorsement was good, politically, is not citing praise **of Powell**.

I just did a search of GD and found NO praise of Powell except for one post that fell like a stone.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4267760

Again, I sincerely ask: ..... what .... praise ..... of ..... Powell ..... ?

[blues90]

50. I was not using DU as my source of anger.

There are many other forums and news sources out there talking about how great Powell is as well as his endorsement.
I just brought my views up here. I am not expecting people to agree or care what my views are.

To answer your question in another way. Just the acceptance of Powells endorsement is enough to give him praise and almost forgiveness, again, my opinion.

There has been news he would endorse for days now.

[kath]

54. Well, Murkans are dumber than shit. A significant percentage STILL believe that Saddam was involved

in the Sept. 11 attacks. STOOPID, and damned proud of it.

[ibegurpard]

55. Well, there's this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7515917&mesg_id=7515917
Again, the endorsement is of tremendous political value.
My opinion of Powell, will not change because of this endorsement however.

[Aristus]

53. Hey, it might bring the black Republicans on board; all five of them.

I'm not taking any votes for granted this year...

[FrenchieCat]

58. I'm hiding these threads for the time being.

With an election 2 weeks away, I don't have time for the "cut our own throat" bullshit.

Obama is running, not Powell. Whatever you don't care for about Powell, in the real world, the one where people vote for either our candidate or his opposition, it appears to be a positive thing.

So I'll take it, if not in the name of my children's future.

[TahitiNut]

59. Bingo. You seem to be possessed of a KSOTO.

(Keen Sense Of The Obvious)

[notalemming]

60. There obviously are those Democrats among us who don't care HOW we win.

It's just that simple.

[Fabio]

61. I respect him. Always have, always will.

today, I am just happy we agree.

[notalemming]

62. You respect Powell??? Are you sure you're in the right place?

jeezus

[Skittles]

72. I hear you notalemming

:puke:

[Fabio]

76. Please

Before you start making silly comments, please at least show a little respect to this place and time served -- if not Colin Powell. i have been here in the "right place" a lot longer than you, maybe not as many posts as you in your 2 weeks on board. But oh well.

And yes, I do respect Colin Powell. Do I think he was used by the Bush Administration in the lead up to the Iraq war? Yup. Do I wish he had resigned in protest? Yes. Does this mistake undo a lifetime of service? Well, that depends most likely on whether you think he was willing conspirator to the events in the Bush Administration or a voice of dissent in a room of yes men and/or strong personalies with a shared agenda. My opinion is more the latter and I feel I am fairly well informed on the matter.

[earth mom]

64. You are witnessing people here on DU selling their soul to the devil to get what the want.

It's disgusting. :puke:

[onenote]

67. are you accusing Obama of the same thing?

after all, he's not exactly tossing the endorsement away is he?

[moodforaday]

91. After Obama caved in

on drilling in Alaska, on FISA and on the bailout, I guess this is only natural.

Anyone who needs to hold their noses voting for Obama this Nov 4 had better be prepared to keep holding it for the next four years. Because he'll need to "reach out across the isle" and to "compromise". It's party before principles, it's "anything to win", it's the end justifying the means - plenty of DUers go along with that.

[Nikki Stone1]

68. If you want to keep your soul, you should stay away from drugs, Don King, and politics.

I'm sure Plato said something like that. :)

[Skittles]

73. you've noticed that too?

I've noticed it during this entire campaign :puke:

[Skittles]

71. I HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN

SKITTLES IS NEVER FOOLED - I have always seen right through people

[Evoman]

77. I hope the piece of shit chokes on his own evil.

You know what? Good for the endorsement if it helps Obama (although I'm not convinced anybody will have their minds changed by it).

But people here are going to far with this respect and redemption bullshit. Honestly, it's bad enough people eulogized that fucker Saint Timmeh....at least he was only a two bit propogandist. But a fucking war criminal like Colon Bowell.....thats a fucking joke.

Next they will tell me that Slobodan Milošević is not such a bad guy because he sent ten bucks to Obamas campaign!!!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

78. I Think It's Awesome That The Media Is Building Him Up.

The more honorable they make him look, the more powerful the endorsement becomes. If he's portrayed as someone who is to be respected and whose opinion carries a lot of weight, then that translates into a more solid endorsement which makes it a more effective one. And since that can only serve to bring more voters onto our side, then that's a very very good thing.

The more they elevate his status, the more effective the endorsement becomes. I'm thrilled that they are talking so positively about him! This election is the most important of our lifetime. We MUST win. Every little bit that helps is something I'll applaud. You should too!

[Solon]

95. Of course it helps, but I do not want to see Powell end up being near...

Obama's administration in any official capacity after the election.

[specimenfred1984]

98. Party 1st, morals later huh? Screw conspiracy to commit war as listed here

http://oversight.house.gov/IraqOnTheRecord/

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

102. Wrong.

Making sure a republican doesn't get elected President again 1st. Overly petty, smug, noselifting, stubborn, zealous, irrational, closed minded and non-objective knee jerking reactionary positions later.

[aikoaiko]

80. Prodigal son effect.

No point in being the jealous older brother.

[tjwash]

81. More integrity than any other Bush cabinet member is not a very ringing endorsement is it?

[leeroysphitz]

83. We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

[Horse with no Name]

84. This is what apologists do

The bush apologists started this mess and the obama apologists will finish it.
It makes me sick.

[PVnRT]

85. H e isn't. Why do so many DUers see the world as completely black and white?

It is possible to recognize what this endorsement will do and be glad of that while still recognizing Powell's culpability in Iraq. Is that really so hard to understand?

[blues90]

86. not for me it isn't possible

I can't condone what Powell did and then now say he is now helping. How do you split your mind and conscience in half like that just for the hope of gaining votes. That is as close to criminal thinking as one can get.

And how can you say it won't back fire and sit here so assured it will help get more votes that it might lose.

Are we talking now this is a race issue. Look I would much rather have the win on the policy of the candidate and never on a stinking game tactic with a side of Powell re-deeming himself

Over all else it stinks and it is an effort Lieberman style.

[PVnRT]

87. No

Once again, you completely miss it. It is possible to see how this will benefit the Obama campaign without condoning what Powell did in any way, shape or form. This is not "splitting my conscience," it is a rational analysis of what is going on.

I fail to see how this will lose more votes than it gains. Powell is seen by many as moderate and honorable, not as a firebreathing war criminal. Maybe you ought to explain how this is going to lose more votes than it gains.

[blues90]

89. I did not miss your point , it is SIMPLE to understand

I just don't agree with it at all.

as far as the votes, how can you be certain that people who may have voted for Obama might not in light of Powells endorsement. You assume you know how most people feel about Powell.

This is not to say they will vote for McCain but may not vote at all of vote for the green or independant ticket just as a vote of conscience.

There is no certainly here other than what one chooses to believe.

I almost get the impression this endorsement is about race playing in the back ground. And people may look at it this way.

I felt Obama was doing well and not need Powell to come out this late in the game , it does insert a certain risk factor that may not be worth it.

It does require one to put one major issue out of ones mind to see the better in the big picture which to me is splitting the conscience. I call it a sell out in the moral sense. You may not see it that way which is fine.

[Greyhound]

88. The Nazis still had many fans up to 1944, and more than a few went to their graves

believing that they "did a lot of good" for the German people. The same mindset exists here, some would say it is prevalent.

Just look at the whole "my team right or wrong" crowd that spews all over here.

[blues90]

90. you are making too much sense. n/t

[specimenfred1984]

94. Many (D)s just as willing to put party 1st over morals, war crimes, torture, etc...

Sad but true, people actually think they can just put the most heinous crimes committed by Americans aside. America is full of dumbed-down, propagandized, reactionary non-thinkers who can't even remember all the lies and conspiracies Powell has committed.

Worse, when shown the evidence, people just lash out and call you and me the EXACT same names the repukes do: bitter, angry, hateful, revengeful. It's what our American culture has become, a disgusting bunch of spineless sociopaths, willing to say anything at any time regardless of the consequences our nation will face.

[LanternWaste]

96. I haven't seen any posts or threads lauding him with praise.

I haven't seen any posts or threads lauding him with praise. On the other hand, I have seen many posts which perceive and or analyze Powell's endorsement as having a positive effect on the general election for the Democrats.

Although as this is DU, it's sometimes tough to recognize the latter without getting branded as sleeping with the enemy or some other petulant piece of melodramatic nonsense.

[Solon]

97. Have you seen this poll?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4268661

Almost half the members of DU still respect the guy, and many in that thread lauded him with praise and minimized his role in the whole debacle leading up to the war in Iraq. Its atrocious.

[LanternWaste]

100. What one may see as praise...

What one may see as praise may be seen as nothing more than measured analysis by another.

[Solon]

101. Measured analysis? I've seen some posters advocate for Powell to be Obama's...

Secretary of Defense! Many even claimed he was a victim of Bush lies himself, as if he bears no responsibility for the war at all.

[jrockford]

99. Makes me sick too. Took the words right out of my mouth. nt

[fla nocount]

104. Corporate whore's don't care whose bed they sleep in...

and the occurence is so common that we shouldn't be surprised that some would defend the practice. At least they crawled into our bed.

Mai Lai.