Help! My daughter is being brainwashed by her boss. He's plying her with "proof"

[crim son]

of Obama's lack of citizenship, etc. etc. Apparently there is more than one pic of the birth certificate out there. But what has her really curious is how Obama has sustained himself. Who paid for his schooling, who paid for the traveling he did as a young man, etc. The gist is that he has been funded since a small boy by radical muslim groups or something like that. Where can I go to debunk what she's being told? Snopes doesn't have it.

I hate that people are so gullible and I hate more that they are trying to influence my kid with their idiotic ideas.

On Edit: He's her boss, but he's also a family friend and a good one. The concerns about harassment at the workplace don't apply here. Seriously.

[MH1]

1. Check this book out of the library:

"Dreams From My Father" by Barack Obama.

Give it to your daughter and suggest that she read it. The answers are in there and it is a VERY readable book. (She can easily finish it between now and the election, if she has at least average reading ability)

[here_is_to_hope]

2. The email that most of that disinfo is in was debunked on

Snopes, I don't have the link but its over there somewhere...

[Catch22Dem]

3. Uh, it's highly inappropriate for her boss to even go there

I don't know how big her company is, but she's got a legitimate HR complaint.

[crim son]

18. I should say that her boss is also a family friend.

They met through work, but now we are all friends. He and I don't talk politics, but she's seventeen and more vulnerable.

[Catch22Dem]

19. Gotcha.

It's still not appropriate, but I see where you're coming from. Just point her in the right direction. In the end, she's going to believe her dad over her boss.

[EFerrari]

21. All the more reason for him to be careful not to violate the boundaries. n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. Friends are those that lie to your daughter? Really?

Interesting.

[LuckyLib]

28. I would respectfully ask this "friend" to cut out the political proselytizing to my daughter.

Given that her work no doubt has nothing to do with politics, it's not appropriate. If she's doing her job, he/she needs to lay off. Personally? I'd have my daughter find another job -- life is short, and folks like that are toxic.

[crim son]

35. I'm sure it sounds that way.

Actually the man himself is just about the nicest person I've ever met, and he and his republican wife have provided me with tremendous support during my divorce process, including some financial support. IOW, he's a republican and he is determinedly misinformed, but I would not critcize him for anything else unless it's a tendency to be over-generous with his time, possessions and money.

A few responses on this thread are typical: the republican is the devil. It's not true; I wish people didn't judge one another so quickly and based on so little information. Anyhow, thanks for responding.

[babythunder]

43. Why are you asking people for advice

she's your daughter? You seem resistant to confronting him or telling him that you find it inappropriate so why bother asking other people their opinions?

[dansolo]

48. Then you should ask him to stop

If he is a family friend, then he should respect your wishes and stop discussing politics with your daughter. If he won't stop, then you need to ask yourself how much of a friend he really is. Considering he is her boss, it is extremely inappropriate for him to be doing this, and can be construed as harassment if he isn't careful.

[Donnachaidh]

4. ask THEM for PROOF that he is being funded by muslim groups.

Seriously, in this day and age HOW can anyone even buy into this nonsense? If THEY cannot produce substantial proof, there is the point.

[still_one]

5. Sorry but snoopes and fact check both debunk the citizenship BS

but more than that, does anyone in their right mind believe the media would not expose something bad about Obama?

Both he and his wife got student loans, and have just paid them off

Just go to Obama's site where he debunks the smears and the lies

http://www.fightthesmears.com/

[AlCzervik]

6. should her boss be discussing this with her at all during business hours?

i find it highly inappropriate and can i guess her boss is quite a bit older than her?

[still_one]

7. http://www.fightthesmears.com /

[Vickers]

8. "Where can I go to debunk what she's being told?"

The onus is on THEM.

Ask for specific links supporting their bullshit, and they can't be from Faux or Limpballs or CultWhore or any of the think (sic) tanks supported by the Repuke Machine.

[Selatius]

9. Tell your daughter that she shouldn't talk politics with her employer...AT ALL.

Refer this site to her:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

If he is trying to get her to vote for McCain simply because he may oppose the Employee Free-Choice Act that will allow employees much easier access to unionization, then tell her that she is voting against her own financial interests by voting McCain.

[Faygo Kid]

14. Yes, he is putting inappropriate pressure on her.

That may be actionable.

[Cid_B]

32. Chrissakes....

Do we have to sue everybody for everything nowadays?

[Ikonoklast]

40. Just the stupid ones get sued.

Not everybody.

[amerikat]

10. try this snopes article

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp

[crim son]

20. I just looked at snopes and somehow missed that.

Thank you very much!

[morillon]

11. She needs to get out of there NOW.

I would never work for someone who did that. It's skanky and creepy, and I'd be worried about him doing more than that, if my boss were so disrespectful of my autonomy and my beliefs.

Seriously. I am worried for her.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DevonRex]

13. fightthesmears.com has all the answers.

[treestar]

15. Explain to her that extreme right wing partisans make shit up

And she should always question what someone tells her, even if in authority or apparent authority, like the media.

People lie. Republicans lie. Can't always believe them just because they sound certain. They have perfected the art of lying, and know how to sound certain.

Good luck! This could affect her personal life, too!

[radfringe]

16. here

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

. Barack Obama’s birth certificate is a document PolitiFact.com had sought for months. Countless chain e-mails, seeking to paint him as a secret Muslim, speculated that his full name included Muhammed (or Mohammed). Some said he is not an American citizen.


As a fact-checking news Web site, we went to extensive lengths to sort out the truth. We got a copy of his 1992 marriage certificate from the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics. His driver’s license record from the Illinois Secretary of State’s office. His registration and disciplinary record with the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois. Not to mention all of his property records.

Not one of these documents shows a Muhammed (or Mohammed) in Obama's name. They all read "Barack H. Obama" or "Barack Hussein Obama."

The ultimate document we sought was Obama’s birth certificate. Unlike the other documents, Hawaii birth certificates aren’t public record. Only family members can request copies, so when the campaign declined to give us one, we were stalled.

On June 13, 2008, Obama’s campaign finally released a copy, while launching a fact-check Web site of its own, Fightthesmears.com. The site is a direct response to allegations about Obama that won’t go away: He’s Muslim. He took the oath of office on a Koran. He refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance. PolitiFact has researched all of these accusations and none of them are true.

When the birth certificate arrived from the Obama campaign it confirmed his name as the other documents already showed it. Still, we took an extra step: We e-mailed it to the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records, to ask if it was real.

“It’s a valid Hawaii state birth certificate,” spokesman Janice Okubo told us.

[ananda]

17. factcheck

Here's a good link on the birth certificate issue.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Here's a link that compares the respective resumes of Obama and Palin

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/6/155943/4990

And Snopes does debunk that ugly email about how Obama paid for his college education, here:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp


Now then.


Obama didn't help Ayers blow anything up but McCain.. helped Keating blow up the American economy. Link here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/10/06/ST2008100600738.html

Not only that, but McCain plans massive cuts in Medicaid and Medicare.. Medicare! .. to offset his proposed healthcare tax credit.

Perhaps we should call the Republicans of the last thirty years economic terrorists. Link here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122315505846605217.html

WaPo article shows McCain's more damning ties..

.. and gives perspective on Obama's more innocuous ties and the way that McCain would really like to keep the national mind and conversation OFF the economy. Well, that's not gonna happen as much as he would like it too, simply because the devastating consequences of Republican economics just will not go away.

Link here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/10/06/ST2008100600738.html

Meyerson rightly and aptly points to McCain's association with Phil Gramm as far more sinister than any of Obama's associations. In fact, Phil Gramm is one of the author's of America's current economic destruction.

Here's a good site on John McCain's record.

http://www.johnmccainrecord.com/index.html

[ivycat]

22. enough with the bs......

EVEN IF he was born outside of the country, his MOTHER is a US citizen, therefore HE is a US citizen. Do these people not even realize that?



edited spelling. I just had to get this off my chest, didn't spell check

[Fleshdancer]

24. DING DING DING! We have a winner!

I don't know why more people don't realize this.

[LisaL]

26. Maybe cause it's wrong?

His mother was only 18. His father was not a US citizen. Apparently under the law at the time, his mother would have to be living in US for 10 years, at least five after the age of 16, for him (if he was born abroad) to be a citizen.
Obviously she was only 18, so she couldn't have been living in US for at least five years after the age of 16.
But it doesn't matter because Obama was born in US, which makes him a citizen.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. Link to law, please

Sounds like bullshit.

[LisaL]

38. Google is your friend.

Maybe you should do a little search before making ignorant comments like that.
1940 The Nationality Act of 1940, Section 201, 54 Stat. 1137.




""Section 201. The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:




"(g) A person born outside the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, has had ten years' residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, at least five of which were after attaining the age of sixteen years, the other being an alien: Provided, That in order to retain such citizenship, the child must reside in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling five years between the ages of thirteen and twenty-one years: Provided further, That, if the child has not taken up a residence in the United States or its outlying possessions by the time he reaches the age of sixteen years, or if he resides abroad for such a time that it becomes impossible for him to complete the five years' residence in the United States or its outlying possessions before reaching the age of twenty-one years, his American citizenship shall thereupon cease."



http://www.aca.ch/hisuscit.htm

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. It's after 14 years of age according to your own link

Though Obama would have missed it by 3 1/2 months.

see the 1952 amendment to the Act.

Reading is YOUR friend.

[LisaL]

46. And you feel the need to point that out why exactly?

The amendment wouldn't change nothing regarding Obama, had he been born outside US, as his mother was 18, which you admit.

[alcibiades_mystery]

47. Just to show you that you were both wrong and lazy

It's not 16, and you couldn't even bother to read your own link.

Cheers, playa.

[LisaL]

49. Hah. That's coming from a person who though the whole idea was

bullshit. And can't admit being wrong.
You were not even in the ball park.
Obama would not be a citizen if he was born outside US.
Get it?

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. Since I never made a claim that he would (and I defy you to find such a claim in this thread)

you're only further displaying your own lazy reading habits.

You really should slow down a little before you throw these silly tantrums.

[LisaL]

53. At least I have reading habits.

What have you got? You claimed the law sounded like bullshit.
You obviously had no clue regarding the law's existence, while I was absolutely correct on what the law was.
The amendment to this law (changing the age from 16 to 14) wouldn't change anything regarding Obama, because his mother was 18.

[alcibiades_mystery]

59. You made a slipshod claim and were asked to account for it

That's what reasonable people do. You then compounded your silliness by accusing me of making claims I hadn't, which is more sloppy reading and poor thinking. I'll readily admit to not being aware of that particular law, which is far less grievous offense than the silly little temper tantrum you openly held in this thread. I'll leave you to it, since you're obviously seething.

[LisaL]

62. I've made a correct claim and provided evidence to support it.

Had Obama been born outside US he would not be a US citizen.
I described the law exactly as it was. The amendment to that law would not work for Obama had he been born abroad because his mother was not old enough.

[LisaL]

63. I've made a correct claim and provided evidence to support it.

Had Obama been born outside US he would not be a US citizen.
I described the law exactly as it was. The amendment to that law would not work for Obama had he been born abroad because his mother was not old enough.

[alcibiades_mystery]

64. You stated the provision incorrectly

And behaved like a petulant child when asked to support your claim in any case.

And I readily admitted that the statute applied even with the real age restated, despite your angry assertions to the contrary and false claims.

[LisaL]

65. Hmm.

I didn't know of the amendment, while you didn't know of the law. Amendment which wouldn't change anything for Obama anyway.
Who would be more informed?

[alcibiades_mystery]

67. On that point, you

You still had a whining temper tantrum because you were questioned, which is just embarrassing.

[Hannah Bell]

34. i'd like some documentation on that; i don't believe it's true.

[LisaL]

39. Well you believe wrong.

[Hannah Bell]

51. documentation?

[Hannah Bell]

55. never mind. i see the age was 14, reduced from the 16 instituted during ww2,

further reduced to 5/2 in 1986.

your claim as stated was false, & you shouldn't be snarky to people who haven't been snarky to you.

[LisaL]

58. My claim as stated was absolutely true.

Had Obama been born outside of the US, he would not be a US citizen.
The 1986 law wouldn't apply to him because he was born before 1986.
The reduction from 16 to 14 wouldn't help him because his mother was 18.
So, had he been born outside the US, he would not be US citizen.

[Hannah Bell]

69. your claim was the law said 16.

26. "Maybe cause it's wrong?

Edited on Sun Oct-19-08 10:51 AM by lizzy

His mother was only 18. His father was not a US citizen. Apparently under the law at the time, his mother would have to be living in US for 10 years, at least five after the age of 16, for him (if he was born abroad) to be a citizen."


That was not the law when he was born in 1961.

[LisaL]

72. I was responding to the post which stated it would not

matter if Obama was born abroad, as long as his mother was a US citizen.
Under the law at the time, and taking the amendment into the account, he would not have been a citizen had he been born abroad, because his mother was 18 when he was born.
Do you not agree that the post I said was wrong, in fact was wrong?

[LisaL]

25. I do not think it's true.

If he was born outside the country, he woud not be a US citizen, because his mother was 18, and his father was not a citizen.
Anyhow, i think it' s a moot point because he was not born outside the country.

[ivycat]

27. I stand corrected....

I was not aware of that, when I had to take my Constitution test to graduate high school in '92, that was not covered. We were taught only one parent has to be a citizen.

You really do learn something new everyday.

[LisaL]

29. It really doesn't matter because he was born in the US.

So, he is a US citizen.
Even if his mother was not a US citizen (which she was), he would still be a US citizen.
In addition, I think naturalized citizens should be allowed to run for president.

[hfojvt]

30. only one parent does

If his mom had been over age 18 it would have made him a citizen. For some reason there's a loophole that makes it not apply to under-age parents. I still find it ironic that Republicans are so interested in this loophole, especially considering that so many of them talked about changing the Constitution so that Arnold Schwarzenegger could run for President. So they wanna say that Obama, who is a seven generation (or more) American on his mother's side is not American enough to run for President, while the Austrian immigrant Arnold is.

[Hannah Bell]

56. not really - look at the 1952 amendment.

[LisaL]

60. Which wouldn't change anything for Obama because his mother

was 18.

[Hannah Bell]

70. your claim was inaccurate, regardless.

[LisaL]

73. The claim was accurate.

Obama would not be a citizen if he was born abroad. But 16 should be changed to 14 because of the amendment.
Happy now?

[crim son]

36. Apparently they do not.

I've heard the argument that a "natural born citizen" must be born in the country. I know it's shit, because I am an American citizen by virtue of my father's citizenship though I was born in Canada. But people believe what they read if it appeals to them, I guess.

[hfojvt]

31. as far as the travelling (which I have not seen on Snopes)

I would add two things. My roommate from graduate school made several trips to India (where he was from and where his wife and two kids were) and his family came here and went back home. He did this on graduate assistant pay (as far as I know, he did have some wealthy aquaitances. I remember one that was talking about $100,000 in IBM stock that he was losing money on).

Then if you look at Obama's world trip, he had free lodging and meals wherever he went. He went to his mom's house, his roommate's house and his dad's house. A trip is much more affordable if you only need to buy plane tickets.

[crim son]

37. Very good point

and our family has traveled rather extensively that way. My daughter will get that. Thanks!

[TuxedoKat]

42. Also, a college education

even at the schools Obama attended were no where near as expensive as they are now. He probably had some scholarship help too, but he did graduate with alot of debt as well, as do many other young people. Like hjovt says too, travel back then was pretty cheap too, student airfares were common as were cheap charter flights. Round-the-world tickets were not that expensive back then either, at least in coach. Lots of young middle class college students went to Europe or overseas somewhere in the '70s and '80s. I financed my own six week trip to Europe by working as a secretary part-time while going to school and I also stayed with friends in the countries I visited.

[ColbertWatcher]

41. Ask the stupid boss where he got his information.

If he says emails, or "on the internet" ask if he knows where it originated.

Not who copied it, and spread it around, but where it started?

Wait a couple of days.

Then tell him that it started on a satirical site based on a joke by Stephen Colbert, http://www.wikiality.com/Barack_Hussein_Obama

[B Calm]

45. McCain was born in Panama. . .

[Hannah Bell]

54. yes, we seldom hear about that, tough...

[salguine]

52. I think you need to reevaluate your concept of "friend". You asshole friend

is bullying and harassing your daughter.

[NNN0LHI]

61. I agree with you

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. The Republicans are getting desperate and it's addling their brains

Really crazy desperate.

Six weeks ago, when I started monitoring the Minneapolis Star-Tribune's website, it was full of illiterate freepers, of course, but also some fairly reasonable Republicans. The Republican remarks were getting overwhelmingly favorable ratings.

I just looked at the comments on Powell's endorsement of McCain. Whoa! Aside from the predictable racist remarks, it's clear that the Republicans who are still posting have left the planet way ahead of Tina Fey. Furthermore, a lot more Dems are posting, and the remaining Republicans are getting poor ratings.

[WinkyDink]

66. Good grief. Just stop discussing such stupidities. And stop playing DEFENSE here.

[Nikki Stone1]

68. His grandmother was the president of a bank.

I imagine she sent him checks with those care packages to Harvard.

[ljm2002]

71. Here is something I sent to a friend...

...who is sadly listening to all that claptrap. I tried to avoid obviously partisan sites in order to reinforce that there is a lot to back up the authenticity of his birth certificate:

Obama's Birth Certificate

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

Obama's birth certificate: Final chapter

By Amy Hollyfield
Published on Friday, June 27th, 2008 at 05:21 p.m.

SUMMARY: Since we published Obama's birth certificate, questions about its authenticity have been frequent and fierce. After reviewing the evidence, we're confident in our rulings.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Born in the U.S.A.
August 21, 2008
Updated: August 26, 2008
The truth about Obama's birth certificate.

FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

Claim: Barack Obama has refused to make his birth certificate available for examination because it contains damaging information about him.

Status: False.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

74. Your daughter

needs to be deprogrammed.

Her boss is a fucking idiot.