83-year-old woman could go to jail because bedroom is converted garage.

[LiberalHeart]

This is crazy. The woman bought the house the way it is now, with a bedroom where a garage used to be. But the city says she has to make 10 grand worth of changes by January or it's off to jail with her. She lives on SS and money from a reverse mortgage.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-garage18-2008oct18,0,5661304.story

[madaboutharry]

1. Sometimes there is truth to the saying

"The law is an ass."

[Orrex]

2. What if she just rotates the tires on her bed?

This is among the dumbest things I've ever heard.

When I was in college, my tiny two-room-plus-bathroom-and-kitchenette apartment was inspected and summarily reclassified as a one-room efficiency. According to code, the room I'd been using as a bedroom was too small for that purpose, so I was legally forbidden to use it as such.

I tried to negotiate with the building's management company, arguing that I should get a break on my rent since I no longer had the apartment I'd leased. They refused, and they told me to look on the bright side--now I had an extra-large closet.


Who the hell cares if her bedroom used to be a garage? I don't care if it's still a garage, for that matter.

:wtf:

[madinmaryland]

6. What if Orrex just rotates the brazillions in his bed?

:wtf:

:rofl:

[Orrex]

8. What if you just shut the hell up?

And the horse you rode in on. It should shut the hell up, too.

[Orrex]

17. Whoops--did I go too far...?

:hide:

[Dr. Strange]

51. Well, see, it's like this...

horse...cowboy...Dallas...

madeinmaryland is in mourning today.

[izzie]

9. As long as it is safe who cares?

I do like zoning rules but silly ones no.

[Cha]

42. LOL

:rofl:

[flvegan]

3. When did a civil dispute become a criminal matter?

Let Code Enforcement lien the property and let her fight the lien or potential foreclosure.

Also, 30 years, she may be able to make a claim on any Owner's Title Policy she may have gotten at the time. Things were different back then.

I'd love to hire whomever her local Bruce Cutler, Esq is to help her out JUST to fuck with the Code Enforcement folks.

[Laelth]

22. Please see my post below.

If she goes to jail, it will be for contempt of Court (refusing to comply with an order of the court). Code violations are, usually, criminal, but they're not the kind of thing that usually warrants jail time. Here, the Court issued an Order, and if she refuses to comply with it, the Court might have to send her to jail.

In order for our judicial system to work, Courts must be able to enforce their Orders.

-Laelth

[flvegan]

23. I don't know about your state, but here, Code Violations are civil.

The Order is to comply, which to me is outside the Court's jurisdiction. Now, if she FTA on an order, that would be something else. Without proceedings from the Code Enforcement board to enforce a lien, the court has little jurisdiction.

I've got 17 years in the title/real property business and this is totally foreign to me.

[Laelth]

25. Depends on who brings the enforcement action.

If the homeowners' association brings the enforcement action, it's civil. If the police bring it, it's criminal. Either way, this lady is not facing jail time for a code violation. She may face jail time because she is willfully disobeying a Court order, and that is another matter altogether.

-Laelth

[flvegan]

28. Maybe in your state.

The court issuing an order to comply implies that an action has been brought by the Code Enforcement board, which is something I hadn't seen from the story.

[Laelth]

31. Looks like it's criminal.

It's the "city building and safety director" who seems to have brought the action. City employees are "the state" for legal purposes, and if the state accuses someone of violating a law, the state is bringing a criminal charge.

Looks like the state won, and the judge has ordered compliance. I hope she appeals. That's really her only legitimate option.

-Laelth

[depakid]

4. Petty little Nazi's just like those on homeowners associations

California's full of them.

[electricmonk]

11. Yep they can be pretty damn stupid

I used to live in the house on the left in this photo. One day I got a letter threatening a fine because my trash can was visible from the street and it "was distracting from the beauty of the neighborhood". The two houses behind me were also abandoned as was another across the corner but it was my trash can that was driving down the property values. Oh yeah, the city owns this house but they would let the weeds get waist high then another city department would come by and put a weed/trash violation sign up then yet another department would come by and mow it.

[LiberalHeart]

13. Wow. Maybe you should have kept your cans on the porch next door.

[Suich]

19. LOL!

Funniest post I've read all night! Sorry, don't mean to laugh at your troubles. The whole thing is insane, no???

:shrug:

[CreekDog]

5. This will go the way of the $114 ticket to the lady for "taking too long to cross the street"

the threat of jail time is where this thing went off the rails and everyone other than this lady is going to end up with lots of egg on their faces. nevermind that the judge involved is likely an elected judge.

[lonestarnot]

29. I hope it was elected.

God I am sick of these people!

[TooRaLoo]

7. That is absolutely ridiculous.

If they're going to chase someone for the house being out of code, how about the previous owner(s), the inspectors, and all the real estate agents who sold it to her that way? Not being serious here, but it's not this elderly woman's fault. This makes me fucking sick.

[Laelth]

24. It's a contempt of Court issue.

She won't get jail time for a code violation. If she goes to jail, it will be because she willfully refused to comply with a Court order. If a defendant doesn't like a Court order, the defendant should appeal. If the defendant doesn't appeal, he or she must comply with the Order. If he or she does not comply, he or she might land in jail.

In order for our judicial system to work, Courts have to be able to enforce their orders.

-Laelth

[LisaL]

26. Well, if the court orders her to pay the 3,000 $ fine,

and spend 10,000$ on turning the bedroom back into the garage, and she doesn't have the money, off to jails she goes.

[Laelth]

27. If she does not like the Order, she shouls appeal it.

I will say this, too. If she can not comply, the Court will not find her in contempt. The law will never order a person to do something she can not do.

Given that this lady is 83, I doubt the judge would send her to jail. Contempt is discretionary.

This is a sensational story, and it smells like bad journalism to me. I doubt that lady is in any real risk of going to jail.

-Laelth

[lonestarnot]

30. With what her good looks at 83?

Not so much. :eyes:

[LisaL]

10. An elderly woman living on social security

likely doesn't have 10,000 $ to turn her bedroom back into garage.
I guess it's off to jail for grandma.

[JDPriestly]

12. If I were she, I would just go to jail.

Surely, her illegal bedroom was grandfathered in long, long ago. This does not sound right to me at all.

[LiberalHeart]

14. But if she went to jail, wouldn't the code problem continue? Seems like it could be endless jailings

[LisaL]

16. At her age, and considering she had

breast cancer and brain surgery, it might not be so long. I hope TV cameras are there when (if) grandma is hauled off to jail.
The prosecutor is elected, is he not? What about the judge?

[JDPriestly]

35. Yes. Sooner or later the city will make a deal.

This is the kind of thing that can be negotiated into a deal. They should allow the woman to live in her house as it is but require her to bring the room up to code if she sells the place.

This is just ridiculous. She is elderly and ill, and they are pestering her about weeds in the sidewalk or the cement. Give me a break. How inhuman. How cruel. What is important here? This lady's health or the city's image? Where are the human values in this? If the city or the neighbors want the weeds pulled, they should send in volunteers to pull them.

[progressivebydesign]

15. What kind of hell is La Quinta? I understand the code violations thing for safety reasons..

it's why we don't have massive deaths from building collapses and fires. I understand that. But these people are so heavy handed and gestapo-like. Most towns, if you have something out of code, it's just out of code.. the don't threaten you with jail. But... if you have a conversion done by amateurs it can be deadly.

I'm just not sure what the answer is.. but I would LOVE to see a group, like a church, come in with a local contractor to bring it up to code for her.

And what kind of town actually cites people for leaving trash cans out???

[LiberalHeart]

18. The real huge awful problem was that her "garage" light was shining on the street. WTF?

[Suji to Seoul]

20. See, this is why I'm glad I lived in rural America

No one cares about trash cans, grass in cracks on a driveway or other bullshit like that.

My driveway was repaved because the house's well was part of it and the subsidence was insane. I'm so glad I don't live in this place.

This is simply called one bureaucrat with too much time on his hands and a city legal system who is "letter of the law, not spirit of the law" people. I hate "the law is the law" people and believe they should never hold public office.

I would have thrown rocks at the building inspector if he showed up on my door demanding to be let in.

Besides, don't the police in this fascist little town have better things to do that get a half-bone harassing old women. . .cancel that! Harassing helpless people is what the police are for. But it's only a select few that do that, right you badge sniffers. These two that hand-cuffed a groggy, sleeping man because he asked why are "good citizens doing a job most people can't do." I wonder how they sleep at night. . .probably easily because they never had a soul and don't have consciences!

[Laelth]

21. If she goes to jail, it will be for contempt of Court.

If the judge finally decides to throw her in jail, it won't be for failing to get her house up to code. It will be for violating the Court's order. Courts can't have their orders ignored. If they were, the entire judicial system would shut down.

Here, I doubt the judge will sentence her to jail. But who knows? You can't just refuse to do what a judge orders you to do.

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--clarity.

[Eyerish]

32. So...

Have you ever thought that their might be something wrong with the "entire judicial system" if an 83 old cancer and brain surgery survivor could be put into jail or fined because of something that occurred 30 years ago and she wasn't a part of?? Oh boy, THAT sounds like JUSTICE to me. :eyes:

Also, you think it's OK for the cops to barge into this woman's home and ask for ID for her grandson and walk around taking pictures?? And yes I do realize they had a warrant. But a warrant for what?!?! What could they POSSIBLY think this little old lady is doing in there?? She's smuggling in cases of metamucil from across the border??

I live in the Minneapolis area and after witnessing the crap that the lovely St Paul PD pulled during the RNC I realized that it was all just symptomatic of the bigger problem. Your home isn't yours if you have something they want. I mean what fucking country are we living in where someone is put into handcuffs for a "code violation"?? Nazi bastards.... :mad:

Lastly, your empathy for this woman is so overwhelming I just can't stand it.
FSM forbid that when your 83, the cops don't come barging down your door because of something you had no control over...

[Laelth]

37. As I said, if she doesn't like the order, she should appeal.

Government is not the problem. If it is, I need to start voting for the party that's trying to kill government in all its manifestations ... especially the Courts.

I fully understand your anger with the St. Paul PD. The Courts, of course, are supposed to protect us from an over-zealous police force. It doesn't help when we see the Courts as part of the problem. Weakening the Courts won't solve the problems of police brutality.

If I willingly violate a Court order, I expect I'll go to jail for contempt of Court ... regardless of how old I am. Why should I be allowed to violate a Court order just because I'm old? The equal protection clause of the Constitution says the courts can't apply justice that way.

Having said that, however, I doubt this woman will see any jail time precisely because she's of advanced age. Contempt is discretionary. I doubt the judge will incarcerate her.

Thanks for your response.

-Laelth

[Hekate]

43. It takes time, energy, and money to mount an appeal, all of which are in short supply for this woman

I've read this far, and you've contributed the same post over and over. You do not get it. She could find herself without a home to live in, never mind jail.

Hekate

[Jed Dilligan]

36. Every act of this kind makes the courts less legitimate,

and if we get used to them being nonsensical and basically useless, about the only approach I can see is to just ignore them until they go away.

[Laelth]

38. Hmm ... no Courts?

Interesting proposition. What would that world look like?

Injured in a car accident? Can't sue for damages. No money and you have a permanent injury.
Want a divorce? No luck.
Trying to collect child support from a deadbeat dad? Too bad.
Police violate your civil rights? No place to sue.
Roe v. Wade? Gone. If a state passes a law making abortion illegal, nobody can stop them.

In fact, no check whatsoever on either the executive or legislative branches of government!

No thanks. I think I'd rather keep the Courts.

Thanks for the response.

-Laelth

[Jed Dilligan]

39. No, just different courts. I think the system is totally corrupt

and needs to be replaced completely top to bottom.

[Laelth]

40. I'd like more liberal judges, I admit.

And I prefer appointed judges over elected ones, personally.

But, for the most part, the judges I know are good people who do the best they can with very limited resources.

Thanks for the response.

-Laelth

[Jed Dilligan]

41. The taint of the drug war

has turned every good judge into a moral compromiser and every bad one into a petty tyrant.

[Laelth]

45. The mandatory sentencing guidelines were a disaster.

They were Sandra Day O'Connor's greatest achievement, in her opinion, and they took away from judges the right to impose sane sentences. Mercifully, the guidelines have been overturned in the Apprendi case and its progeny.

-Laelth

[Waiting For Everyman]

33. She might have a claim against her title insurance.

In any case, her house is probably older than the statute, so she should be "grandfathered". This is obviously harassment, and yes, very much like homeowners associations, which should be strictly regulated too. Lots of foreclosures result from similar kinds of abuse from them, for no reason. Just petty power-trippers.

[TooRaLoo]

34. Agree. The fact that the court made this order against her is the problem

in the first place.

[kiranon]

52. Better claim against the seller than the title company. n/t

[Hekate]

44. She's had breast cancer and brain surgery in the last two years....

Her son says: "She has undergone three surgeries in the last two years. She had breast cancer. She had brain surgery, which took her a year to recover from, and I still think she's a little dingy from that."

The Law is an Ass.

The cops handcuff her grandson when he asks them why they've busted in.

Jack-booted thugs.

Hekate

:argh:

[PVnRT]

46. Gosh, it sure sucks not living in a big city...

:sarcasm:

[lib2DaBone]

47. And just look at the vacant lots and corners during election season...

today I noticed that every available lot and corner and intersection in my town is crammed with politcal signs. Yet if I put a yard sale sign anywhere near a right-of-way, I have code enforcement up my ass and in my face! Code enforcement will ri[p the sign down and fine me. So now an 80 year old lady goes to jail. Karl Rove was issued a subpoena and he said "fuck off". Its obvious, laws are only meant for little people, not the people who wrote them.

[wvbygod]

48. What moronic politicians would create such a stupid law?

Are they Dems or repubs running the show in her locale?

[Are_grits_groceries]

49. They keep citing health and safety issues.

What are those issues?? What does that room or whatever cause that is so heinous??

[Marrah_G]

50. La Quinta ought to be ashamed

Building Division [phone] [e-mail]
Code Compliance [phone] [e-mail]

[gollygee]

53. I could see them saying that it has to be changed when the property changes hands

but for God's sake she's 83. They could wait a few years and make a condition of sale that someone converts the garage.

[mnhtnbb]

54. She needs a good attorney (pro bono) to step up to confront these petty

Nazis.