So Paulson's cronies get to pocket a 10% finders fee on the $700B bailout?

[Robbien]

Execs to be paid $70B. Amounts taxpayers are scheduled to pay execs for their bonuses per
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/17/executivesalaries-banking

Citigroup$25.9bn,
Merrill Lynch $11.7bn,
Goldman Sachs $11.4bn,
Morgan Stanley $10.73bn,
JP Morgan $6.53bn
Lehman $6.12bn.

These bonus pots are for 2008 bonuses which are all three to five percent higher than they received in 2007. Since their companies are in the toilet, for what performance are we paying these guys. Perhaps they are getting bonuses for being so effective in getting Sen. Schumer to champion their cause by making sure bailout covers bonuses?

When asked if they have no shame, the banks said "That's a fair question - and it may well be that by the end of the year the banks start review the situation." I guess after we pay them this year, they will think about what's next.

The article points out that the amount we are to pay for Morgan Stanley bonuses is more than the current value of all outstanding stock of the company.

[Mind_your_head]

1. Read this a few times....PLEASE

The article points out that the amount we are to pay for Morgan Stanley bonuses is more than the current value of all outstanding stock of the company.

[GardeningGal]

2. This is obscene. n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. This is Financial Rape of the nation by the wealthy

kick nominated.

[Sydnie]

5. It is the only groupd of blivet's** base that he failed to hand enough to over

the 8 years. He had to make good on his promises to all the groups of haves and have mores.

[wordpix]

18. Goldman Paulsen Sach's bailout sure is working! For McBushCo, that is

[Cerridwen]

4. Bonuses for failure?!

These guys are going to keep it up and the pitch forks and torches are going to be walking down Wall Street.

The mood of this country SUCKS! They'd better wrap their greedy little minds around the fact that the economic pain felt at this time is neither blue nor red; small town nor urban; black nor white nor brown; it is ALL of the lower 98% who unwillingly contributed to their 70Bn in bonuses.

They are out-numbered and they'd better figure it out soon.

See my sig line.

[Robbien]

7. They don't get it. They believe they are entitled to their resorts

and bonuses and their private jets and everything else. Even now when they are on the dole they are partying on and believe it is their due.

Until and unless we take a hard line as the Brits and the EU are doing, these execs will continue to believe the government works only for them and the treasury is their personal kitty.

[Cerridwen]

9. Yeah, the problem with their way of thinking is...

if they keep it up...they might just get it.

There is an ugly mood in the US right now; it's not just political. To quote a famous person - "It's the economy, stupid!" Now it's effecting those not normally impacted during downturns.

"The Angry While Male(tm)" of the 80s was primarily ultra-conservative. The Angry People(no tm) of the 21st Century cross all demographics.

Now, the requisite, I hope I'm wrong. Otherwise we're in for some hair-raising times.

[Robbien]

14. They even went on CNBC and said they don't plan on loaning any money, they plan on keeping the $700b

John Mack in a CNBC interview said that the capital deployed by Treasury into the banks was going to rebuild their capital ratios - not be lent out. In other words, they intend to hoard it.

They have no idea the people are angry. They go on international television and say flat out that the $700b is theirs to do with what they will. They have no intention on building a banking system which works for everyone. Just interested in building up their own piles of gold.

They really aren't reading the mood of the country.

Too busy planning their next resort outing I assume.

[Mind_your_head]

6. "They" figure that we don't have the COURAGE to do the moral thing -

exact the fate on them that Mussolini faced.

Perhaps they're correct (or maybe not).....

[dmr]

8. This is obscene! Bonuses should go to the American taxpayer.

They just f*ckingly f*cked us all. They know it, don't care, plan on doing it again next year and all the years after that, so long as those who are suppose to advocate for us, the taxpaying citizen, allows this to continue to happen - wonder what their take is ...

This is a power-driven, greedy, violent assault on our senses and pocketbooks.

[dailykoff]

10. Since they're also getting the other 90%

why not?

[MadHound]

11. But. . .but. . .but. . .I thought that the bailout was a good thing,

I thought that it was utterly, absolutely, positively imperative that we all stampede over that cliff since Bush screamed FEAR!

We're being fucking conned, the bailout was a con, and frankly every idiot who supported the bailout should apologize for once again being an idiot and allowing Bushboy to scare them stupid and enabling Bush to once more take this country right over a cliff. Have you idiots learned? Do you get the point now? If Bush screams FEAR!, do exactly the opposite of what he's telling you to do. Of course, given that Bushco will be out of office in three months, it's a little fucking late now.

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. THANK GOD IT PASSED!

:mad:

[anigbrowl]

12. K & R...these people are in need of a major reality adjustment

Bear in mind that some of these companies would have quite big pay totals anyway in absolute terms, because they employ very large numbers of people - for example, Merrill Lynch has 60,000 employees, so if they earned an average of $50,000 each (a pretty modest wage for the finance industry) you'd be talking about $3 billion already. It would help to have some context to know how much was regular staff pay and how much was crazy and undeserved bonuses...I'm guessing about 50-50.

OP is slightly mistaken in asserting that all of this money is just for bonuses - if you read the Guardian article, it's actually the total for all pay. But still.

[anigbrowl]

13. ** It's not all bonus pay - don't get carried away ***

Please do read the article carefully, as some people seem to have gotten the wrong end of the stick. Citi has about 300,000 employees worldwide, Merill about 60,000, even Lehman Bros employed 26,000...so even with modest and sensible pay structures, you would still be looking at some big numbers. I'm critical too...just saying that there's no point in complaining about the wrong set of facts. SOME of these large numbers are regular legitimate pay to very large #s of staff.

[Cerridwen]

16. Thanks, anigbrowl.

It's not the SOME I'm angry about (I won't speak for others). It's the reward for failure at the top that is infuriating. Accompanied by the fact that the money used to bail out those failures comes from those of us who are punished, sometimes unmercifully hard, when we fail while those same top failures blame us.

[anigbrowl]

17. Exactly. I'm totally against executives or traders pulling down fat bonuses after this fiasco.

But when criticizing, we might as well get our facts straight - these companies employ about half a million people between them, so even basic pay packages would run into the billions.

[wordpix]

20. If investors want to buy stock in these wild spending corporations

and help pay for lavish parties and execs earning hundreds of millions for bad performance, go ahead. But when we the taxpayers are bailing out the companies, it's another thing that makes me :puke:

[dailykoff]

35. Yes, thanks for the propaganda.

Like it's hard to find elsewhere. :crazy:

[Cerridwen]

39. Uh, yeah additional information is always useful.

I'll be spending time discussing politics with people and it's better to have all the information, even if it's not something I care to hear, so if someone brings it up I can be prepared with a comeback.

So your problem was/is that I was polite? That the poster brought in additional information? Something else?

Propaganda or not, or perhaps especially propaganda, needs to be addressed and to be knocked down or put in perspective.

[Robbien]

22. If say only $50b were for bonuses then that would be better?

Come on, when the firms closed down, people were only out their last paycheck. A couple of billion or so perhaps.

The majority of this money is accrued pay which was to be paid out based on performance.

Another point is that this $70b is only the amount they expect to pay for performance through September. The amount owed will be larger come December bonus time.

[dailykoff]

33. Thank God their armies of syncophantic usurers are getting a piece

of the action! I weep to think what would have happened if we hadn't written them a trillion dollar blank check! :cry:

[Mind_your_head]

15. KEEP in mind, that "back in the day" We used to actually manufacture things....n/t

[Irish Girl]

19. Where do you think these greedy CEOs received their $200 Million Dollar bonuses from?

As the months ebb on, I think it will become increasingly clear as our retirement funds continue to be raped. This was the largest transfer of wealth in history and the looting of our Treasury happened right on national television. I'm still astounded Congress allowed that bailout to pass. Then I realize we have people like Nancy Pelosi (worth around $94 million) and it all starts making sense.

Congress, the international bankers and the fat cat corporations all have their hands in each other's pockets. The corruption is simply out of control.

[wordpix]

21. watch the stock market tank further on this news as investors come to understand the rape continues

:grr:

[bluedawg12]

23. What's 10% of $700 billion?

Bullsh*t!

That's what.

Unreal.

[robinlynne]

24. Jesus. And of course the article is in the Guardian, not a US paper.....

[Shallah Kali]

25. We need to apply the Polluter Pays Principle - Those who profit should pay into the Superfund cleanu

Let's Make Wall Street Execs Pay for Cleaning Up the Mess They Made
By Sam Pizzigati, Too Much: A Commentary on Excess and Inequality
Posted on October 16, 2008, Printed on October 17, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/102942

One of these analysts, veteran Massachusetts attorney E. Michael Thomas, believes that a clawback offensive could help fund a substantial share of the Wall Street bailout. Thomas is proposing ( http://thejournal.epluribusmedia.net/index.php/op-ed/44-general%20op-ed/178-use-polluter-pays-principle-to-fund-bailout ) that any firm receiving bailout dollars should be subject to the "clawback of executive incomes, management fees, or stock options for the prior seven years, to the extent necessary to fund that company's bailout."

The key to the Thomas clawback approach: a political willingness to apply the "polluter pays" principle from existing environmental law to the bailout.

In the 1970s, Thomas notes, lawmakers had to decide how to pay for cleaning up the nation's toxic waste dumps. They decided that they weren't going to waste taxpayer dollars trying to prove individual enterprises at fault. Instead, they would operate under the principle that any enterprise that derived economic benefit from dumping waste at a site would be expected to help pay for the site's clean-up.

That same principle could be applied, via clawbacks, to the Wall Street bailout. These clawbacks, says Thomas, wouldn't require "an assessment of guilt or culpability" on any one executive's part.

"Instead," explains Thomas, a past recipient of the EPA's top public service award, "the clawbacks would reflect the simple policy judgment that the executives who derived economic benefit from creating the conditions that necessitated the bailout should pay for it."

[machI]

26. Kick

[RadiationTherapy]

28. Do all 157 of your posts say 'kick'?

What are you building up to?

[Leopolds Ghost]

27. Shouldn't the Obama be harping on this NOW if we expect the criminal rape of America to stop????

Yeah, yeah, don't tell me, pols who supported the plan knew full well about this...

Bill Clinton and Phil Gramm both got untold millions in payment for their repeal
of the Glass-Steagall act.

[RadiationTherapy]

29. "Thank god it passed."

I argued against this bailout and was told again and again that I didn't "understand" economics. Whatever. Capitalists rejoice: Greed is good.

[Hubert Flottz]

30. The Splurge is Working!

[dailykoff]

37. Good one.

:rofl:

[Telly Savalas]

31. If they insist on executive bonuses they should at least have the decency to grant them in the form

of the "distressed assets" they're dumping on us taxpayers instead of cash.

Why is it the responsibility of taxpayers to maintain the capital position of banks when they aren't willing to do it themselves?

This isn't merely a symbolic instance of unfairness where the large bonus makes up a tiny fraction of a percentage point of the total economic impact. This is a material amount which would make a difference.

[dailykoff]

34. And that's not even counting the actual finder's fees paid to Kashkari

and the ten "firms" he'll be enlisiting to help hide the loot before Jan. 4.

[Greyhound]

36. You seem to be a bit surprised by this. It is exactly what we told you

they would do. That's all this looting is, one last grab at the trough on their way out the door.

30 years of theft, but this time they would do right because it is sooooo important. (But, but, but, it's MY 101(k)):eyes:

[bertman]

38. My rep is a Democrat, David Price, 20 yrs in Congress. He voted for this ABOMINATION.

So, I just voted for his opponent, a Republican (for the first time in my 40 years of voting Democratic).

This shit has to stop. The only way it will stop is by getting rid of these so-called representatives and Senators who are hosing their constituents-US.

Vote out the whore incumbents.