Scared in California

[ccharles000]

http://www.365gay.com/opinion/corvino-scared-in-california/

If the election were held tomorrow, it’s quite likely that gays would lose marriage in California.

That’s California, our most populous state, home of San Francisco and Nancy Pelosi and the liberal Hollywood elite. What progressive California giveth, progressive California may taketh away.

It surprises (and frankly, depresses) me how few gay people know or care what’s happening. Here’s the quick version: in May, the California Supreme Court declared the state’s ban on same-sex marriage unconstitutional. Prior to the decision, California had domestic partnership legislation granting nearly all of the statewide legal incidents of marriage. But the Court held that denying marriage to gay and lesbian couples deprived them of a fundamental right and constituted wrongful discrimination.

Gays began legally marrying in June, making California the second state (after Massachusetts) to support marriage equality.

Meanwhile, opponents collected enough signatures for a November ballot initiative to amend the constitution so that “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.” (The amendment would leave domestic partnerships intact, but it would make it impossible for California to recognize same-sex marriages from Massachusetts or elsewhere.)

[slackmaster]

1. I rarely comment on polls, but that's one result I am having trouble believing

I think 8 will fail.

[Le Taz Hot]

26. I'm not so sure.

The nutso fundiy pod people are out in force with LOTS of commercials (I've heard nothing for "No on 8.") and signs and bumper stickers everywhere. The "yes on 8" ads are pretty nauseating. I'm really afraid this is going to go through.

[slackmaster]

46. It's sad to think that people can be swayed so easily by just throwing money around

But I'm afraid that is true.

[ColbertWatcher]

28. SoCal may have given the world San Francisco hippies, but ...

... we also gave the world Charles Manson, Richard Nixon, the Hillside Strangler and Ronald Reagan.

[lligrd]

48. It Would Have Until The Fundies Started Using Scare Tactics

in their ads. Seems all of our children are going to be forced in to "learning" about gay marriage, and churches will lose their tax exempt status, etc. My neighborhood still has more no signs but the yes sign are popping up daily.

[melody]

2. It's ignorance combined with RW fundie money

The no vote folk are beginning a new ad push with some serious money behind it.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. I read somehwere that the Mormons were sending in millions to stop gay marriage in CA.

[arbusto_baboso]

4. Not only that, but the mormon church is pressuring members to cough up "donations" to Yes on 8...

In fact, at least 47% of the Yes on 8 donors are known to be LDS.

We need to yank the tax-exempt status of this "church" immediately!

[BrklynLiberal]

5. I could not agree more......

[ourbluenation]

7. the only yes on 8 sign on my street is at the home of a mormon family. n/t

[arbusto_baboso]

8. And they likely have it up only because....

they're afraid of being disciplined or excommunicated if they don't enthusiastically support Prop 8.

My wife and I used to be mormon. Thankfully we escaped that lunacy several years back.

[SidneyCarton]

18. No one will be excommunicated for not supporting Prop. 8

My parents are vocal opponents of the measure and have not been excommunicated.

[ourbluenation]

19. good for them. n/t

[arbusto_baboso]

20. No one will NOW.

But that's only because there have been other mormons in California who have stood up to the bullying and taken their stories to the press.

Make no mistake; the LDS church browbeats its members as much as it thinks it can.

[Sheepshank]

27. Of course the rank and file are being brow beaten....

This subject matter is spoken about in the latest General Conference meetings. Symposiums are held in Utah...WTF? Only the mormons would come up with the argument that if the gay marriage initiative goes through, it also will lead to legalizing polygamy and beastiality. You know, it's all bout the line, "once the prophet has spoken.." and all. Of course they may come out later and say on this occassion he actually spoke as a man, but we'll have to sse, Brigham Young was wrong about interracial marriage too.

Yes, there is pressure to conform. It is in the nature of that religion. I applaud those active Mormon people who are brave enough to make a stand, because as soon as it's deemed that it is in fact against church doctrine they will be getting a visit from the bishopric.

As for their 501(c)3 status being in jeopardy. Someone pointed out that it applies if a church gets involved with promoting a particular candidate and not necessarily pointing out a policy of that faith as it may apply to a particular piece of legislation.

[SidneyCarton]

30. Really?

I have taken a greater browbeating on this issue from DU than from church.

[Mz Pip]

14. Ours too.

3 Yes on 8 signs in their yard. These are people who voted for Nader in 2000. Go figure.

[scorpiogirl]

24. Same here

until it mysteriously disappeared last night. Either that, or I shamed them enough with my homemade signs to make them take it down.

[proud patriot]

22. Yep the yes on 8 signs on public property are overwhelming

Since the Mormons sent the money in .

Our local rainbow center is trying to place no on 8 signs
near the yes on 8 signs .

I'm still waiting for my yard sign to arrive .

[Dem2theMax]

31. They are popping up on public property here in San Diego county.

And the ones that I find near my house are going to be disappeared. Hate is not allowed here. At least not on my watch.

[proud patriot]

32. I agree Completely

:yourock:

I was trying to figure out a way to make em'
"no on 8" signs where they sit ...:think:

My car was stickered tonight . covered my no on 8
with a yes on 8 , I was able to pull it off easily .

I will be able to park there again next Saturday
I want a Big Sign next week .:evilgrin:

A little sticker isn't going to cover my message
next week .

[Dem2theMax]

34. Wish I could help you make that HUGH sign! ;-)

I could not believe it when I saw the signs show up this week. They are going to be disappeared tomorrow night, under cover of darkness.
:evilgrin:

And if they show up again, they are going to disappear again, and again, and again. Eventually, they will run out of money. I won't run out of my intolerance for hate.
There are a few signs in front of homes as well.
I know I can't take them, (although every time I drive by, oh, it is SO tempting) - so I'm thinking of sending those folks a letter.
A nice letter, explaining that everyone in the neighborhood now knows that they are intolerant, that they will vote FOR hate.
I think pointing out that they may start feeling shunned because of their statement on hate would be good.
Followed by something along the lines of "then you'll start to get the smallest of ideas of how it must feel to be gay in this country."

While in town today, I saw a man driving a pick-up truck full of "Yes on 8" signs. Lucky for me, his passenger window was down.
As I drove by him, I screamed out at the top of my lungs, "NO TO HATE!" Probably scared the crap out of him. I hope.

And by the way, :yourock: too!

[proud patriot]

35. amen to that

peace be with you .

[Retrograde]

6. What I'm afraid of

is that newer voters will hear the national media call the election for Obama at 5 Pacific time and they'll all stay home, leaving the motivated pro-8 voters to swamp the vote.

[EFerrari]

12. That's a legit concern and we can't let that happen. n/t

[marmar]

9. Not too long ago, it seems that NO on 8 had a 20 percentage point lead.....

..... I think Californians will come to their senses. If the tide of young pro-Obama voters comes out to vote, Prop. 8 will hopefully be nothing but a bad memory.

[hunter]

10. They invite Satan into their churches to preach.

The supporters of Proposition 8 are a sad lot. Their irrational fears and hatreds undermine their faith and eat away at their souls like acid.

[Caliman73]

11. I have read

That Latinos, Filipinos, Thais, and Vietnamese are opposing 8 in majority numbers where they are concentrated, which is encouraging since these groups have traditionally held more restrictive views on homosexuality and the "traditional" view on marriage. I understand the concern though. The yes on 8 people have been running such a slimy and disingenuous campaign. They are truly disgusting people.

[anigbrowl]

13. At a guess...

I'm wondering if the gay community is trying not to make it too much about them and more about civil rights for all. Ms Browl and I are strong opponents of prop 8, and it's been kind of surprising to me that I haven't seen much street level campaigning against it even here in San Francisco. Then again maybe people take it pretty much for granted that SF will vote against it and are campaigning elsewhere.

Incidentally, if Prop 8 does pass, it will probably be challenged immediately under article 10 of the US constitution. But it would be better by far if it doesn't pass at all.

[wvbygod]

15. What "extras" from marriage vs civil union would be lost?

Did the marriage law grant anything other than the license thing you get when married?

[cally]

16. I signed up to phone bank this week

for no on 8. I hope all DUers in California are calling and volunteering also.

[SidneyCarton]

17. Lest you be too afraid Charles, let me clue you in to an oddity of the California Referendum System

Even if Prop. 8 passes, nothing is settled. All that is necessary for it to be overturned is for those in favor of same-sex marriage to put an amendment on the next ballot, or on every ballot for the next however-many years to legalize them. Like anything else in Califormia politics, the events of November won't end anything, because no issue here is ever really settled.

[mike_c]

21. I don't understand why so many folks are surprised by this....

Californians passed a "marriage protection act"-- I forget the proper name of the bill-- several years ago and they did it rather resoundingly, IIRC. I certainly remember all the "Protect Marriage" signs around my own neighborhood, and I live in a pretty liberal Norcal enclave. This is STILL the state that spawned Reagan and Nixon. And Darrell Issa, for cryin' out loud. Most of the state's counties were thoroughly red during the 2004 election. Sure, the coastal counties and especially the Bay area are unambiguously liberal, and have most of the population, but equal rights bills are ALWAYS difficult to sell across the board, and if the red counties are united in favor of Prop. 8 the blue counties would need to be just as united to block them, and I don't think they are.

There ARE fewer "Yes on 8" signs around the neighborhood than there were "Protect Marriage" signs seven or eight years ago (or whenever). But they're still here, and like I said, this is one of the most liberal enclaves in the state.

I hope Prop 8 fails, but even if it does the RWers and fundies will just keep bringing it back to life until it eventually passes-- an outcome that is likely sooner-or-later if its defeat this year is close. And like I say, I don't think its defeat was ever a sure thing. Just the opposite. If the past is any indication, its the No on 8 movement that has had the harder battle from the very beginning.

Finally, the RW here is very good at using the referendum system to force its dictates down folks' throats. I've said from the beginning that I won't be at all surprised if Prop 8 passes.

[Greyskye]

23. The money ground-game is disheartening

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-moneymap,0,2198220.htmlstory
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-metro-prop-8,0,2463893.htmlstory

Please make a contribution now if you can.

[lunatica]

25. 3 members of my family already voted against it in our absentee ballot n/t

[Sheepshank]

29. There is still confusion.

many people are confused over what a "yes" or "no" vote means as it applies to wording in the Prop 8 proposal. I recently heard a couple talking about how they would vote "no" since they don't want gay marriages considered equal to heterosexual marriages. :toast:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

33. Money seems to be an issue. I donated.

I've seen the horrid Yes on 8 ad, but nothing for No on 8. Granted, I avoid commercials with my Tivo, but I know that the Yes folks have raised a lot more money, including from out of state.

I sheepishly admit that I read the polls a couple of months back that showed 8 losing by a pretty wide margin and I didn't get involved, thinking it was safe. Now I'm also very afraid that it will pass. Even in this liberal part of coastal Calif. where I live, I see tons of Yes on 8 signs. It sickens me.

I have a No on 8 sign in front of my house, and I donated last week. I need to do more. I plan on working all day on the 4th, and will make sure that even if BO has the presidency locked up (as he may well, long before the CA polls close), Dems know how important it is to go vote anyway.

[ContinentalOp]

36. We really need to fix our referendum system.

I don't know how but it has just gone too far.

[goodgd_yall]

37. We're going to have our rights taken away

Prop 8, I'm afraid, is going to pass.

[litlady]

38. Lets look at Prop 22 - it won in 2000 with 61% of the vote...

How much have the demographics of voters changed? What does this picture look like eight years later? Maybe there are more students who are more accepting but there also may be more religious voters. There are certainly many who will vote Obama but also vote yes on 4.

I am certainly concerned and feel it could either way. I would like to believe that we will do the right thing - but to be honest I didn't think Prop 22 would pass either. When I was upset about that prop, so many people I saw were passionate in their desire to keep gays from equality.

Edit to add: Also another thing to consider is that the state itself is not progressive per se - many big cities go blue but there are still large pockets of red all over the state as well as many who vote Democratic but are socially conservative. According to the Public Policy Institute of CA, only 44% of Californians are registered Dems. How many of those will vote? How many will vote for equality?

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[magdalena]

40. See ya! n/t

[Poseidan]

42. if only you knew

Such a tiny moron you are. Have fun living your life of eternal stupidity.

[ccharles000]

43. asshole

[PA Democrat]

45. Take your racist, misogynistic, homophobic BS back to

whatever cesspool you crawled out of. 7 posts and every single one of them filled with right wing bigotry and hatred.

[Poseidan]

41. gays should sue

As marriage is a religious institution (which is why almost all marriages occur in churches), state marriage is illegal. Gays should sue the state for violating their freedom of religion.

[machI]

44. Kick

[Zomby Woof]

47. Voting NO on 8!

I get the word out any way I can.

[lligrd]

49. Lots Of Problems And Questions If It Does Pass

What would become of those already married? Can they simply undo a marriage? What about those from other states? Is it legal for one state to ignore a marriage from another state?

[Irishonly]

50. The commercials are full of lies

The religious nut jobs found a law professor at Pepperdine to be their spokesman and he does nothing but inflame and give wrong information. They have bought tons of time to air their lies. Fundie churches are evidently handing out "Yes on 8" signs and bumper stickers.

The propaganda says schools will teach gay marriage and parents will not be able to do anything about it. A big whopper is that churches will lose their tax exempt status. It is disgusting and if you can afford to donate, please do.