GM puts next generation Corvette on hold

[ReadTomPaine]

C7 on hold--How long must fans wait for a new Corvette?

Multiple sources confirm that the General's financial crisis has led the company to put whatever plans it had for the next-generation Corvette on indefinite hold, with no official or set timetable.

In this climate--we've even heard tales of janitors removing lightbulbs from corporate headquarters in an effort to save money--not only is an all-new C7 now more than just a few years away, but even a significantly refreshed or upgraded C6 looks unlikely to appear anytime soon.

One version of the story says that when the decision was made to shelve the C7 for the time being, a plan was suggested to upgrade the C6 significantly in 2012 as a '13 model. Today's Corvette would be eight years old at that point and as much as 12 years old by the time the upgraded car was finally phased out in favor of the C7. Had this occurred, the C6 would have gone down as tied with the C4 generation as the second-longest-serving model in Corvette history. As things stand, multiple sources say this idea also is dead.

Perhaps the most disconcerting thing for fans is not that a new car has been delayed but that GM leadership does not appear to have a clear roadmap for the Corvette's future. On the other hand, no one has suggested that the model is in danger of becoming extinct. While the Corvette is the most visible GM product to enthusiasts and therefore the subject of much speculation, the fact is that GM's entire product port-folio was under review as of press time.

More - http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/FREE/810169981/1023/LATESTNEWS

[csziggy]

1. Is that why Nat Geo Channel was showing the Corvette factory

on Ultimate Factories tonight? 2007 - "Building the 200-mph 500-horsepower Corvette Z06 takes a special factory." When I read the blurb my only thought was "who needs a machine like that?"

[ReadTomPaine]

9. No wonder I thought I saw Brock Yates big meaty head on in the background earlier this evening.. n/t

[DainBramaged]

17. People with soul, that's who.

[ReadTomPaine]

27. What's your take on the news, Dain?

Where do you think they are headed with the next one? Do you think they even know themselves?

[DainBramaged]

36. We are in the last throws of the supercar renaissance

Today's cars aren't musclecars, they are supercars. When you can buy a tiny turbo-charged Cobalt that is faster in ALL aspects than ONLY the Hemi's and Tri-power 'Vettes of the 60's, you KNOW we are in amazing times. And with 30MPG too. That's going to change with the new CAFE standards. No more 'credits' against gas guzzlers when you sell gas sippers. Weight has to go down with power to keep performance equivalent. And in the cases of many imported supercars, they're history.

Nothing is stranger than driving a Z06 Corvette to the bagel store as if it was your everyday transportation, and realizing it could be (except in the snow). We have come full circle. The insurance companies killed the Musclecars in the 70's, the Government is going to kill them next.

[ReadTomPaine]

43. I think the Cobalt SS is the most underrated car made by GM...

I even liked the previous supercharged version. And I too sense the end of an era.

[alfredo]

65. the Lotus Elite is an example of going light to obtain supercar status.

I think the Pontiac Solstice has the right idea, lets see how it develops.


It's pretty much the Saturn Sky's brother. The Sky seems to be designed by the same people who designed the new muscular Caddy's.



I hope these cars keep getting better, more refined, and more popular.

[ReadTomPaine]

76. The Elise does a lot with 190 horsepower...

it's not the most practical car in the world, but some concessions are worth making. The price has been creeping up a bit too high for my preferences however. Such a simple car should have retained its roughly 40K price. More than that and things start to get a bit dicey, making variants like the Exige and similar less of an easy sell.

The problem with the Solstice/Sky is weight and price. At 2970 pounds, it weights more then some four door sedans and they charge a whopping $6000 premium for the turbo model. I prefer that drivetrain in the Cobalt these days - although both the Solstice and the Sky are just gorgeous to look at. The Kappa rear drive platform holds great promise.

[alfredo]

78. The Corvette started off as an underpowered brick, in some peoples' eyes.

The fiberglass body was not appreciated at the track. The term "glass carnival" was coined to describe races for Corvettes.

It was an inline six pumping out about 150hp. It weighed nearly 3,000 lbs.



GM did a great thing by hiring John Fitch to bring the Corvette into the racing scene.

[ReadTomPaine]

81. Don't forget Zora Arkus-Duntov...

Zora joined General Motors in 1953 after seeing the Motorama Corvette on display in New York. Perhaps it was just fate that Zora happened to be among the thousands of people who attended the GM event. Zora found the car to be visually superb, but was disappointed with what was underneath. He wrote Chevrolet chief engineer Ed Cole that it would be his complement to work on such a beautiful car, he also included a technical paper which proposed an analytical method of determining a car's top speed. Chevrolet was so impressed that engineer Maurice Olley invited him to come to Detroit. On May 1, 1953, Zora Arkus-Duntov started at Chevrolet as an assistant staff engineer.<1>

Shortly after going to work for Chevrolet, Zora set the tone for what he was about to accomplish in a memo to his bosses. The document, entitled, "Thoughts Pertaining to Youth, Hot Rodders and Chevrolet", laid the foundation for the strategy that Chevrolet has used ever since to create one of the most successful performance parts programs in the industry. Chevrolet quickly became one of the most successful manufacturers ever in the history of motor racing. Soon, Zora became director of high performance at Chevrolet and helped to transform GM's largest division from a conservative company into a youthful, exciting one. In the process, he would change the Corvette from a docile roadster into a full-blown sports car that measured up on and off the racetrack against the likes of Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati, and Mercedes-Benz. As was his way, Zora led by example. After helping to introduce the small-block V8 engine to the Corvette in 1955, providing the car with the much needed grunt, he set about showcasing the engine by charging up treacherous Pikes Peak in 1956 in a pre-production prototype Chevy and setting a stock car record. Not satisfied, he took a Corvette to Daytona Beach the same year and hit a record setting 150 mph over the flying mile. In his spare time, the brilliant and vocal GM driver/engineer also developed the famous Duntov high-lift camshaft and helped bring fuel injection to the Corvette in 1957.<1>

In 1963, Zora launched the Grand Sport program. The original idea captured the interest and imagination of Corvette fans all over the world. The idea was to create a special lightweight Corvette weighing only 1,800 pounds and race it on an international circuit against not only Cobras and other GT-Class cars, but also racing only prototypes from Ferrari, Ford and Porsche. Power for the Grand Sport was to come from an aluminum version of the small block V8, equipped with special twin-plug cylinder heads. At 377ci, output was a projected 550hp at 6,400 rpm. But as it had so often, GM policy prohibited Zora from going racing, but not before five Grand Sports were built. The five Grand Sports eventually fell into the hands of private owners, and Zora somehow found a way to support them in spite of the official ban.<1>

Zora retired in 1975, turning the reins over to Dave McLellan. At 81 years of age, Zora Arkus-Duntov was still passionate and opinionated about his car, the Corvette. It was during the time between Zora's retirement and his death that his legend grew. Whenever anything Corvette happened, Zora was there. A member of the Drag Racing Hall of Fame, the Chevrolet Legends of Performance, and the Automotive Hall of Fame, Zora took part in the rollout of the 1 Millionth Corvette at Bowling Green in 1992. He also drove the bulldozer at the ground breaking ceremonies for the National Corvette Museum in 1994. Six weeks before his death, Zora was guest speaker at "Corvette: A Celebration of an American Dream", an evening held at the showrooms of Jack Cauley Chevrolet Detroit. On hand that night were Dave McLellan and his successor as Corvette chief engineer, Dave Hill, but no one could argue that Zora stole the show.<1>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov

[alfredo]

84. So Zora was Mr Inside, and Fitch as the manager of the racing team was

Mr. Outside.

[EOTE]

79. The LS series V8s can be prodded into the Sky and Solstice

Giving them superior power to weight ratios to the Vette. I tend to believe that the Corvette name is eventually going to become its own make. That's already the case in Europe where GM figured that sports car buyers looking for Corvette performance usually weren't looking for the Chevy name there. I can't wait to see what GM has up its sleeves for the C7. I figure the performance will at least match the current Z06 (as the C6 baseline for performance was of the C5 Z06 and it surpassed it). But the pinnacle of GM performance, the monstrous Corvette ZR1, I believe will be the king of domestic performance for a very long time, not even to be exceeded by its makers at GM. As others have noted, to eke out more performance, it's got to be done by utilizing lighter parts. I don't see GM making any more 600hp+ performance cars any time soon.

[ReadTomPaine]

80. Mallet produces those V8 Solstice models..

http://www.mallettcars.com/solstice-conversion.htm

[DainBramaged]

102. I have driven a new Solstice with the 260HP turbo motor

and I thought the supercharged motor was a hoot, this thing is E-V-I-L. :yoiks:

[alfredo]

103. It must be nice. I walk onto the lot and the salesmen hide.

[ReadTomPaine]

104. LOL.. Have a bit of a local reputation as a hot foot? n/t

[alfredo]

105. Mine is worse: a tightwad.

[DainBramaged]

106. I get to go to GM auctions, that is fun

[alfredo]

109. My sister in law works in the equine world. In that industry they get

a lot of people from Europe, mostly England and Ireland, working the horse farms and related industries. They buy cars when they get her, and sell them as they leave. I'm there ready to buy as they leave. For the past four years I've been driving a Hyundai Elantra I bought from a pretty Irish lass.It's been very reliable. The car is ugly as homemade sin, the front is dented, the seats stained, but I turn the key and the car starts. Not bad for $1,000.

[DainBramaged]

110. You bet, but a pretty Irish lass.... you didn't convince her to stay?

:spank:

[alfredo]

111. She was gay, I'm married, she's young, I'm old.

[DainBramaged]

112. awwwwwwwwwww

so much for imported Irish Ale!

[alfredo]

113. I'm liking some good American Ales

[JNelson6563]

57. No one "needs" it but

why should all those who want such not have the option to buy American? As a Motor City girl myself I applaud GM for at least keepin' it alive, I hope there will be new imporved models in the future.



Stunning.

[AndyTiedye]

2. GM's Existance as a Company is Under Review at Press Time

[ReadTomPaine]

6. They're dancing around the issue, but the new CAFE standards will likely mean a downsized 'Vette...

in terms of engine displacement and possibly more. This won't sit well with the faithful but weight and size reductions could give it a power to weight ratio similar to today's base models, which are plenty fast.

I think the Corvette has outgrown its market. Some models top $100,000. That's a lot money for a Chevy, no matter how well it performs.

[CRF450]

10. They get better fuel milage than alot of other high performance cars of its caliber

Even with 6.2 v8 that can produce 430hp, they can get 30mpg pretty easy on highway despite the EPA's 26mpg HWY rating.

[ReadTomPaine]

11. We've spoken about it before a few times. What's your take on the news?

Chevy's developed the pushrod V8 into something of an art form - it's a nicely packaged engine given its output and other particulars. Where do you see them going next?

[CRF450]

14. Who knows...

First, I dont like how the EPA rates auto's. Their only more accurate in WORST DRIVING CONDITIONS. Every auto I'v driven and own currently beat their rated fuel milage rating prior to the revised 08 numbers. The whole CAFE emmisions deal is the driving force behind this when their are sooo many other vehicles that get worse.

This whole deal is just stupid IMO as these cars get no worse fuel milage than alot of other cars on the road.

If GM can get around this issue and make an additional feature or better more effecient v8 to please the CAFE standards, by god I hope they do it cause the Corvette is one car I do not want to see fade away.

[ReadTomPaine]

15. Well the one thing they insist on is the fact they are keeping it alive...

but GM went down that road before with mixed results in the 70's.

I'm thinking we'll see about a liter removed and the vehicle resized to "kappa-plus" dimensions, retaining something in the ballpark of of its current power to weight ratio while gaining around 4-6 MPG. Other less plausible options include forced induction V6 models, although that's quite a longshot. Corvettes are all about the V8.

[CRF450]

31. I'd rather see a diesel v8 than anything smaller.

It would get much better fuel milage with a good v8 diesel too. The only thing lost would be the original v8 exhaust note.

[ReadTomPaine]

33. I'll have to pass on that myself.

Diesel engines have too narrow a powerband and too low an RPM ceiling to make for good enthusiast driving in a proper sports car. They can be strong and satisfying, but not 'sporty' per se. For that, you need high RPM and flexibility.

I do think diesels are the future for many other segments however; from frugal economy cars to stump pulling trucks they are going to be a major force in the future of the US auto industry.

[CRF450]

46. Ah, you got a point their.

I'd like a diesel engine in my 04 Dakota. Their has been rumors floating around that Dodge could possibly be working on introducing a diesel engine for the Dakota's but I'm not sure. They are the only mid-size truck with a v8 after all (actually, just recently GM just put a 5.3 v8 in the Colorado as a "Sport" model) so it would be pretty cool if they have the only mid-size truck with a diesel!

[ReadTomPaine]

49. The faster they bring new diesel technology to the truck and economy segments, the better.

Esp the former. People can use those immediately and will prefer them from day one.

[backwoodsbob]

115. my stepfather has a s10

like a 88 model...with a factory 305.VERY rare model.

First time I drove it he warned me to be easy..I didn't know it had a v8...when I launched it out of the drive just to see it left two stripes in the road for 50 feet

[HooptieWagon]

58. Audi has been dominating sports car racing with turbo diesels.

And VW has been competitive in the Paris-Dakar Rally with their diesels.

[ReadTomPaine]

60. Ironically, not everything that makes for a successful race car make for a satisfying sports car...

Racing cars operate in very narrow RPM ranges and are always specifically tuned for whatever track they happen to be competing on in any given race. This means, with a few notable exceptions, that they are actually pretty unpleasant vehicles to drive.

While the realm of sports cars and race cars overlap to a certain degree, the flexibility of commercial sports cars is the margin in which most people find the features they love about them, from the racy, nicely styled interiors to the feeling when a highly tractable, sporting powerplant is wound out to its upper RPM ranges. The diesel Audis represent an amazing breakthrough in racing, and we will see a diesel R8 in the relatively near future, but the costs , complexity and the horsepower limitations of the powerplant will mean that gasoline variants will always be more satisfying to drive.

That said, there is definitely a place for diesel sporting cars - there are plenty overseas, but they tend to overlap the economy hatch segment - ie. the 'hot hatch' segment in Europe. With that sort of market dynamic, they start making more sense. In the Corvette's segment, that's not so much the case.

[EOTE]

82. Audi's V12 TDI is a remarkable engine.

The thing is, when you've got higher gearing, you don't tend to mind so much that the powerband is so narrow. And when you're able to produce 90+% of peak torque just slightly above idle, that allows for some rather tall gearing. Sure, it may not have a 7000+rpm redline, but who cares? You've got torque everywhere that you need it and the tall gearing allows for nice top speeds as well.

As for gasoline variants always being more satisfying to drive, I have to strongly disagree with you there. I've driven a number of VW TDIs and I'd drive the 90hp 1.9 variant over a 105-115 hp 2.slow ANY DAY. It's not always fun having to rev the hell out of an engine to get it to perform. Loads of low end torque and be very addictive.

[ReadTomPaine]

85. Well I'd take a hearty diesel over a weak gasoline engine as well..

I'm not a torque-head but low end grunt is always addictive in a car. I'd take a sporting gasoline engine over a sporty diesel in most cases, but your points are all well considered. The game is changing, and lets not forget how easy it is to feed that diesel engine w/o a single drop of liquid dinosaur.

[EOTE]

91. But the 2.0 has an additional 25 hp.

So most would look at the 90hp TDI and consider it to be the 'weaker' of the two engines. HP has always been a very stupid method of judging how powerful an engine is as it's only a snapshot of the powerband when it's producing power at its peak. Never minding the different methods of measuring HP (sae net, etc), but it takes nothing into account for what the engine produces at all other times save for peak power. Who can honestly say that the two liter four cylinder found in the early S2000s at 240hp is more powerful than the 6.6 liter turbo diesel found in the H1 Hummer at 190hp? Simply because it doesn't have an insane red line? A super high red line does very little if you lack sufficient torque to get the car up there in the first place.

[ReadTomPaine]

93. As you indicate, it's the entire graph, not just the peak.

There are high RPM gas engines that are not peaky and have excellent torque characteristics across the board, however, and that tractability is key to a satisfying experience in a sports car - more so than just low end torque. Most diesel engines suffer the problems you cite but in the inverse fashion - they run out of steam well before their 4000-5000 RPM redlines and become gutless when the powerband falls off a cliff. Turbo lag can also rear its head on the low end in these situations as well, narrowing the powerband even further.

Gearing helps, but it's no panacea. More tractable diesels are coming, but this fundamental design difference means sporting oil burners are better suited to hot-hatches and the like where economy and durability concerns also enter into the equation, and a good gasoline engine will always be a more entertaining alternative in a proper sports car as a result.

[EOTE]

97. I still have to disagree.

I'd take the upcoming R8 TDI over a a 4.2 FSI powered R8 anyday. And I think you'd have a hard time suggesting that the 4.2 liter V8 in 420hp FSI form isn't a 'good gasoline engine'. Turbo lag is absolutely not an issue in that 90+ percent of peak torque is available right off of idle. And having a sub 5000rpm redline isn't a concern, once again, because of the tall gearing. There is hardly any condition in which the FSI would take the TDI in real world performance tests and when you consider the massive torque difference (about 650 to 750lb/ft throughout the entire rev range in the TDI compared to 317 for a rather small peak in the FSI), it's nice to know that you'll never need to wait for power in the TDI, and that's not the case in the FSI. I think with the upcoming R8 TDI, we'll see just how appropriate diesels can be in sports cars.

[ReadTomPaine]

99. It will be an excellent test case. Should be fun to watch.

The 4.2 isn't a favorite engine of mine, but it's not a bad powerplant. There are packaging, weight, price and complexity issues with diesels as well, but all of that will fade in time if the money and the interest are there. Despite my preferences, I want these engines to succeed and the R8 is a good way for automakers to get people thinking about this and start asking for them.

[AndyTiedye]

16. How About a 'Vette Hybrid?

Electric motors can provide lots of acceleration, if that's what you're after.
It must have really good aerodynamics already.
Might need to put it on a carbon fiber diet.

I think they could build one that accelerates the way a 'vette ought to but gets mileage like a Prius.

[ReadTomPaine]

23. Yep, see downthread a bit although I would consider it a longshot.

There's been general talk in the automotive world about using an electric motor like a supercharger - for a quick torque boost - in a 'hybrid' fashion but designed to improve performance first and mileage secondarily- that talk was not in relation to Corvette, however.

In such a situation, the actual battery power wouldn't need to last long so the batteries wouldn't be too heavy. Sort of like a green version of nitrous injection. Otherwise it could work like a weak hybrid setup with a very short range. Not sure how that would effect the character of the car, but they've done worse to the Corvette in the past, dropping the output under 180 horsepower back in the late 70's with the "Darth Vader" C3 (which did look great, at least).

[DainBramaged]

37. Ain't never going to happen

[AndyTiedye]

66. Why Not?

At Corvette prices, the cost of adding a hybrid power plant is no big deal.
Electric motors come up to full power instantly compared to gas engines
which have to get fuel into the combustion chamber and burn it first.
You still have the gas engine to provide sustained power.

Why wouldn't this work?

[DainBramaged]

101. Way too heavy, stops owners from working on the car (A BIG deal with owners)

and isn't worth the effort. I don't know if you know how dangerous it is working on a hybrid powertrain, but it will kill you if you do something wrong. There are hours and hours of training involved in servicing the drive trains, special clothing, certified gloves which have to be sent back every 3 months to check for possible voltage leak points, non-metallic clothing, even down to new plastic tools to keep from discharging the battery through your body.


Hybrid makes the Corvette a pariah to owners.

[EOTE]

83. Only one model tops 100k as far as I know. And that's the ZR1.

And I don't think that's a lot of money at all. Especially for a car that smokes the majority of Ferraris and Lamborghinis available today and even keeps pace with supercars like the Enzo and Carrera GT. It's one hell of a beastly ride and I think it's a bargain.

[ReadTomPaine]

86. I don't think it's in the character of the Corvette or Chevy to push that high..

but it's one wild ride, no question about it.

[backwoodsbob]

114. yep

my little wedged in 3.8 supercharged grand am has power to weight that makes supercars envious

[wtmusic]

3. There is talk of a merger with Ford or Chrysler

A Mus-vette? :crazy:

[ReadTomPaine]

7. Mostly Chrysler...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3538854

Ford was approached during the summer but Mulally sent them packing.

[liberaltrucker]

4. Perhaps the little penis crowd is short of $$ lately

FIRST THE HUMMER, NOW THE 'VETTE? OMFG!

:rofl:

[CRF450]

8. I take pitty with what you say

Since some of us among DU, do own a high performance car :eyes: (Owner of an 01 Trans Am here)

[DainBramaged]

18. 50% of the Vettes sold in the Northeast are sold to women

another fool spews

[dysfunctional press]

21. well...most of them aren't exactly known for their large penises, are they?

so there.

[JVS]

40. Only a few

[ReadTomPaine]

28. I always found the old C4 to be a very feminine car overall. That doesn't surprise me.

Interesting information, however.

[DainBramaged]

35. And six-speeds are no longer the majority transmission

The new 6-speed auto behind the Camaro will find it's way into the Vette, therefore making the manual just silly. A paddle-shifted auto is ALWAYS faster than a gearbox with a big penis, oops, shift lever, which "SOME PEOPLE" don't know how to handle anyway. :rofl:

[ReadTomPaine]

41. Sequentials are interesting but just not as flexible as a real stick.

The problem is when you have to skip more than a single gear, but I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new. At least the dual clutch ones eliminate the torque converter. That said - GM makes some of the best "traditional" automatic transmissions in the world, but even when I've had autos, I tend to shift them manually whenever I hit hills or similar. A few toasted transmissions are all it takes to go back. Autotrans are a bitch to fix, they are never right again.

The new V6 Camaros are quite impressive. That's alot of car for 23K - I wish they weren't 3800 pounds, however.

[4lbs]

47. I thought that the "little penis crowd" tended to buy Porsches.

You buy a fancy "P" because your own "P" is lacking.

;)

[madmax]

5. Oh Damn!!

And just as I was planning on buying 2 this year. :evilgrin:

[ironflange]

12. I'm waiting for the hybrid model

:silly:

[ReadTomPaine]

13. Don't laugh, Lexus actually builds a hybrid luxury sports sedan..

unfortunately it's a pretty sad entry in that highly competitive segment. And there's always the Tesla. Electric motors are torque monsters, it's only a matter of time (and battery tech) before you see sports cars taking advantage of that fact.

[DainBramaged]

19. Tesla is in serious trouble, there is one thing associated with horsepower

that people can't separate, the sound of an exhaust note. From a GM Big Block V8 to a Ferrari V12, NOTHING sings like a high performance exhaust, NOTHING.


Those who can't hear the music are brain dead.

[ReadTomPaine]

24. Yes every review I've read about that car cites its lack of sound to be a liability.

It definitely dulls the excitement of owning a high performance automobile. I like the Tesla, however and wish them luck. It's never easy being first, and it's a pretty nice car - gearbox notwithstanding.

I was wondering when you'd show up. :)

[riverdeep]

54. Why not just pump a simulation through the sound system?

An on/off switch, and everybody's happy. Or get an x-box road racing game. Much less expensive. I'm only half joking (but which half?).

[ReadTomPaine]

61. That's already being considered actually...

although I don't know if Tesla themselves have ever done any work on it. It is fundamentally a deception, but so are many other stylistic cues on sports cars such as non functional hood scoops or spoilers and the infamous "falsie" coffee can exhaust tips. It seems a thin broth to me, but then again I've never went for any of the other affectations I mentioned above either. That said - if it helps to sell these cars to the general public at the start, I'm all for it.

In the case of both of your queries the answer is the same, however - there's no replacement for the genuine article.

[riverdeep]

107. Yeah, I can understand that.

I think in the end, economics may play the final role. If battery or some other silent power gets to the point of making these cars powerful but cheaper, I don't think people will care any more.

It's like from a different field, amplifiers. Many musicians said that replacing their tube amps with digital amps is something they would never do. At first, it was an easy choice, digital amps sounded terrible. But today, some digital amps, like the Vox line, sound as good as a tube amp. Except they need less maintenance, they get way more sounds, and are less expensive. They are not the 'real' thing, but it has become irrelevant. On many of the recordings of guitar you hear on albums today the guitar parts were recorded through digital amplification, the most popular being something called the POD.

I do kind of miss the smell of tubes burning though.

[ReadTomPaine]

108. Good analogy.

Something gained, something lost and time moves on. Talk of the Corvette aside, electrics are coming. In a generation or so, kids will roll their eyes over the geezers talking about how things used to be. Those geezers will be people like you and me. :)

[AndyTiedye]

29. So Whadyathink About a Hybrid 'Vette?

I'm thinking you ought to be able to get good mileage and great performance if you do it right.

[DainBramaged]

38. Ain't never going to happen

[dysfunctional press]

20. well...when they've got to compete with the likes of THIS...whaddya expect them to do...?

but put their tail between their legs and leave a puddle on the floor...? :shrug:



http://www.teslamotors.com/

[ReadTomPaine]

26. Other than the gearbox, it's a great car. I wish it weren't so pricy...

but that's the cost of being on the cutting edge.

[Book Lover]

32. Tesla Motors hits the brakes amid credit crisis

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tesla16-2008oct16,0,7948108.story

Citing "extraordinary times," Tesla Motors, maker of the battery-powered, $109,000 Roadster, said Wednesday that difficult market conditions were forcing it to delay production of its next-generation vehicle, close two offices, lay off an unspecified number of employees and replace its chief executive.

For now, the San Carlos, Calif.-based company will focus on cutting costs and making its current vehicle profitable, said Darryl Siri, Tesla's head of sales and marketing. "Because of the fundraising environment and capital markets, we're going to focus on making the Roadster a positive cash flow, core product," he said.

<snip>

San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed said Tesla contacted his office Wednesday with the news and that the carmaker "is committed to continuing to make their factory for the S model sedan in San Jose." A spokesman for the California treasurer said Tesla would still be eligible for the tax exclusions in the event of a delayed production start.

Tesla has not determined how many of its roughly 250 employees will be laid off, Siri said, but he added that it would be fewer than 100. In addition to the Michigan office, the company's office in London will be closed, he said.

More at link - it's a good article.

[ReadTomPaine]

34. This is depressing news.

I had no idea things were so bad for them. I really hope they pull through. The Tesla is a nice machine, it deserves a reasonable run and shot at success.

[DainBramaged]

44. (sigh) so many experts, so little time........

[EOTE]

90. A stock Vette outperforms the Tesla in just about every criteria.

And that's at HALF the price of the Tesla. The Z06 and ZR1 trounce it in every measure of performance save for fuel economy. Not only that, but the transmission has proven to be extremely problematic and many of Tesla's claims, such as the 250+ mile range have been proven to be waaaay off mark. I don't think the Vette has anything to worry about in that respect.

[Swamp Rat]

22. MOPAR RULES!

:D

[ReadTomPaine]

25. Love 'em. But they are rich boys cars now. How ironic, eh? n/t

[ReadTomPaine]

30. Here's an example: "CNN - 1971 Plymouth sells cheap for $2.5 million"

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- A 1971 Plymouth muscle car sold at a Phoenix, Ariz. auction Friday for $2.2 million. With a 10 percent sales commission, the total price for the car will be about $2.5 million.

While that may sound like a high price, it was actually a million or two less than would ordinarily be expected for a well-preserved 1971 Hemi 'Cuda convertible.

The car was one of just 11 produced in that model year. The very few that are still left are considered the most valuable of all American muscle cars.

When another '71 Hemi Cuda convertible was offered for sale at an auction in New York City in Sept. 2005, bidding went as high as $4.1 million, but the owner refused to sell the car even at that price.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/AUTOS/01/20/scottsdale_saturday_roundup/index.html

Granted, it's a rare and desirable model, but that's just nuts

[DainBramaged]

39. Uh, no

The COPO Camaro's and Chevelles spanked them, and the 454's in '70 even harder. (I raced one in SS/EA against the horde of Hemi's).

[ReadTomPaine]

45. The Mopars did hang on for a few years after the party was over at GM & Ford...

I'm generally a Chevy guy when it comes to domestics and muscle, but I've always had a soft spot in my heart for 'Cudas of that era.

[snooper2]

59. I can't count the number of Camaros I spanked

:rofl:

same year and engine I had...

[Swamp Rat]

71. And the Shelby GLHS spanked Porsches and Corvettes

HAHA! :D

[ReadTomPaine]

72. Ahhh someone who remembers those cool little cars..

Raw as they were, they were a blast to drive back in the day. Highly underrated.

[Swamp Rat]

74. It was one, BADASS hatchback!

Turbo II w/intercooler! :D

0–60 mph@6.5s
1/4 mile@14.8s

Omni GLHS spanking a Camaro: :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDUvX0n8baU

Omni GLH spanking Corvette Z06:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvHcxNJG7is&feature=related
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!! :D

[backwoodsbob]

116. THANK YOU

I test drove one of those once...they are STUPID fast.My wife said I was high or having flashbacks when telling her of that car.

Was going to buy one new but they wanted a 7'000 premium so I laughed and bought a ss camaro

[Swamp Rat]

68. Camaros and Chevelles can never be as good as Hemi Cudas.

:D

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-50fast.shtml

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5ax1oSwM6E&feature=related

Bwahahaha!!!!! :D

http://imgs4.images.hotrod.com/powertour/113_05az+1971_Plymouth_Superbird_Prototype+Front_Drivers_Side_View.jpg

http://imgs4.images.hotrod.com/powertour/113_05bz+1971_Plymouth_Superbird_Prototype+Engine_View.jpg

[DainBramaged]

75. I don't think so, from a professional point of view

I was a part of Truppi/Kling (Ralph Truppi died a few weeks ago, God rest his soul) and we kicked Mopar ass.



OH and Bernie Agaman's SS/CA 'Vette, we won the World Championship in 1973.

[EOTE]

92. The 1970 Chevelle SS 454 LS6 is my dream ride.

I've wanted one for the longest time. I still hope to get a lesser model in the future and equip it with discs all around and a more modern suspension. As they stood, they were insanely fast in a straight line. Not all that great when they had to turn.

[JVS]

42. A wise decision. Putting a bunch of money into a halo car probably isn't the way to go right now.

[ReadTomPaine]

48. Hard to argue with that, esp since they have committed to keeping it alive.

As others have pointed out, everything at GM is under review at the moment. However the market or the business go, however, the new CAFE standards loom as a certainty. That's going to change the game even if business is booming.

[JVS]

50. Do CAFE standards apply on the basis of brand or corporation?

If it's by brand, then I suppose Corvette will just pay the penalty and deal. Sportscar companies pay up all the time. You don't see Aston Martin or Porsche trying to meet Cafe standards. If it's by corporation, then it might be necessary for GM to spin Corvette off into a more independent status.

[ReadTomPaine]

51. Here are some relevant citations:

"Historically, it is the sales-weighted harmonic mean fuel economy, expressed in miles per gallon (mpg), of a manufacturer's fleet of current model year passenger cars or light trucks with a gross vehicle weight rating of 8,500 pounds (3,856 kg) or less, manufactured for sale in the United States. This system would have changed with the introduction of "Footprint" regulations for light trucks binding in 2011, except that the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has returned that rule to NHTSA for reconsideration for, among other things, being "arbitrary and capricious"<2>. The most recent revision of CAFE that passed in 2007 no longer grants exemptions to light trucks classified as SUVs or passenger vans unless they exceed 10,000 lbs GVWR (those that exceed 8,500 lb GVWR previously did not have to comply with CAFE standards); Pickup trucks and cargo vans are required to comply up to 8,500 lb. In 1999, over half a million vehicles exceeded the GVWR and the CAFE standard did not apply to them.<3> In 2011, the standard will change to include many larger vehicles. <4> The United States and Canada have the lowest standards in terms of fleet-average fuel economy rating, and they have the highest greenhouse gas emission rates among first world nations; the European Union and Japan have higher fuel economy standards and lower emission standards than the United States."

"If the average fuel economy of a manufacturer's annual fleet of car and/or truck production falls below the defined standard, the manufacturer must pay a penalty, currently $5.50 USD per 0.1 mpg under the standard, multiplied by the manufacturer's total production for the U.S. domestic market."

More here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy

[carlyhippy]

52. the should make it a hybrid, but then again they are already out of reach for most of us

they shouldn't make those cars so expensive to begin with, a hybrid vette would end up costing as much as a house.

[DainBramaged]

53. There is a word in the dictionary, it sort of gives new meaning to the word individual

E-X-C-L-U-S-I-V-I-T-Y

[ReadTomPaine]

63. The Corvette has outgrown its market. Only the base model makes sense anymore.

The ZR-1 and Z06 are wonderful cars and prove that GM can compete with the finest sports cars in the world, but they have pushed the model, its options, its marketing and its clientele upward at the expense of the brand's identity to a certain degree. The Corvette used to be everyman's exotic. It's starting to become an exotic car, period.

[alarimer]

55. Good. Environmentallly irresponsible cars like that need to go.

They should be in the business of phasing out all vehicles that get less than 30 MPG IN TOWN. Lose the gas-gazzling expensive pieces of crap like this.

But what will guys in a mid-life crisis do now?

[DainBramaged]

64. "But what will guys in a mid-life crisis do now?"

Put FASCISTS on ignore, bye bye

[EOTE]

94. Considering that the C6 gets 30mpg in town, that won't be a problem.

But I guess we'll be needing to get rid of LOTS of minivans considering they can't get anywhere near the fuel economy of the current Vette. Say goodbye to Siennas, Caravans and others, they got to go. It would be irresponsible not to. Don't know much about cars, do you?

[CRF450]

95. In town?? They only get that on the highway.

For most drivers they'll easily average in the low 20'a.

[EOTE]

98. Sorry, a bit of a mis-type there.

But given that criteria, there are ridiculously few cars that would remain on the road.

[ReadTomPaine]

96. 30 is the highway number with a very light foot. Most will see around 18 city/28hwy

Which is plenty impressive as it is. EPA '08 rates them at 16/26, and C&D got around 16 real world with lead feet.

[Blue_Tires]

56. luckily the C6 is more than good enough to last a few more model years

the boys on the corvette boards are probably apocalyptic by now... i guess they will try to blame it on pelosi/obama/acorn/ayers/gore/sierra club...

[ReadTomPaine]

62. Yes, fortunately the C6 is a pretty nice car as it is.

We may be looking at another C4 style situation where they simply keep the current car around for a good long time. I'm not entirely convinced that GM itself knows what they are going to do about it.

[Blue_Tires]

67. they are waiting to see where the wind blows

and i say that as someone who grew up a Chevy/Corvette fanboy...

GM is kind of in limbo...the second horsepower wars which started in the late 90s has reached critical mass. GM knows that the vette buyer base will NOT accept a car which does not significantly outperform the current one (with future releases that outperform the Z06 and ZR1 special models)...To create a better car will take a lot more R+D cash than they have at disposal right now -- not to mention the fact that with the renewed consumer interest in fuel-efficient cars, the marketplace could force GM to build something much greener (and to vette fans' dismay, something slower)... Like in the 70s, deep down GM and other automakers know that the insane numbers of the horsepower wars need to be pulled back a bit; but no one wants to be the first to blink...So long story short, GM will play a waiting game...

and the HP numbers have gone way over the top the past couple of years...more than a handful of cars have 500+ HP (which in most cases is WAY too much for a street driven car, and is used more for country-club bragging rights than actual track work), and many buyers are still clamoring for more and more.

[ReadTomPaine]

73. I'd say those observations are pretty much on target. n/t

[flvegan]

69. The ZR1 will hold the hype for a few years.

What an epic car.

[DS1]

70. Meanwhile, Nissan can't make enough GT-Rs

Order today and you'll be lucky to get one by May

[ReadTomPaine]

77. Nissan went through hell before Ghosn stepped in with Renault.

Recall those years after the 300ZX was killed - they were still using it in commercials even though it wasn't available anymore because they didn't have anything even remotely in the same league to replace it. It's not so much that the Corvette isn't selling well, it's the parent corporation itself that's in a bind. This management crisis has to resolve itself before GM can move forward again. And it's management that's the problem, not labor or its costs. Treat American labor right and they will produce some of the best products in the world.

The GT-R is amazing, but again.. it's much too heavy at 3800 pounds. That's more than an E-class Mercedes Benz 4 door sedan, and that shows on the edge where it combines with four wheel drive to produce fairly mulish understeer for those with the ability to exploit this car at its limits. Horsepower can offset weight to a certain degree, but the dynamic qualities of a lighter car are always superior to a heavy one, all else being equal.

[slutticus]

87. Sweet car.

I'm glad they kept the nissan badge

[boomerbust]

88. Back in July

I ran into a employee of Chevy and he was here at Road America in Elkhart Lake Wi. He and his fellow employee were filling up two ZR1 Corvettes at the local mini mart. He told me they would be available to the public in September. Hundred grand. Are they on the market?

[ReadTomPaine]

89. Yep.

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/

[DainBramaged]

100. Only 2000 will be made (as of this time) and distributed via lottery

to the nearly 5000 Chevy dealers in AMerica.