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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:23 AM
Original message
I am buying stocks tommorrow...
what should I buy??
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dubeskin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. Everything
I would love to if I had the money, but unfortunately I can't. Rather, I'm actually curious to see how the market turns over the next few days and week, because I think it will just keep to drop.

But I'm going to advise against the big tech companies like Apple and Google. Apple because I think the whole iPod trend is dying, and Google because it's sort of outlived it's boom for the most part. Maybe in an alternate energy company or a food company?
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. thanks! n/t
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dubeskin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. But take that with a grain of salt
I'm not an expert by any means nor am I qualified to give advice. I was just suggesting that from what I've seen lately in the overall tech world.
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Captiosus Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. I agree with the AAPL comment.
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 12:45 AM by Captiosus
Apple is going to inevitably hit a ceiling just like most of the PC sales companies did in the early 2000s. There comes a point where everyone who wants an iPod will have one. The iPhone kept Apple's consumer electronics model afloat for a bit longer, but they're running out of markets to enter. The biggest things out of the last Apple keynote - at least "biggest" in terms of media exposure - were just the new Nano and new Touch models. Not much else.

I'm not sure what the latest market penetration is of the Mac brand. I believe it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 8% total market share or so. If iPod sales begin to slow down significantly, and I believe they will sometime in the next 6 to 12 months, Mac, alone, won't be able to make up for the sales loss.

It makes me sad to say this, of course, since I'm a recent Mac convert. I want to see the company continue to thrive, but the consumer electronics market is a fickle one, especially when the economy is on the slide. Food is mandatory, electronic toys are optional.

Edit: Currently AAPL is trading at $96.80 a share, and will probably go up tomorrow based on the anticipation of news regarding their MacBook line. The news won't break until Tuesday. Even so, that's a bit high for my tastes.
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dubeskin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. That's what I was thinking
Most people who have iPods aren't really going to buy anymore, and Apple's real resonating product is the iTunes music store. Myself a recent convert as well, I've discovered that ultimately the only people who will remain loyal buyers are exactly those, the loyal buyers.
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Captiosus Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. I'm interested in hearing their news on Tuesday.
If it's a price cut on Macbooks, I'll first be pissed because I just bought a Macbook, but then I'll get over it and be happy because I think the entry level Macbook needs about a $200 price shave to bring it more in line with equivalent Vista-based laptops.

If it's some flashy jazzed up new Macbook, I'll just have mixed feelings because the flash and sexiness really only appeals to Apple owners and it won't really do anything to push more Mac units.

It's a shame, really. OS X is such a good OS. If they could put their hardware out around the same price range as Windows machines, I think MS would take a heavy punch on the chin.
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Google has strong staying power
It basically has a monopoly on the search and web advertising business, so I think it will be fine in the long term.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. That's until my awesome idea hits the market... then google is like sooooo going down...
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 12:52 AM by Zevon fan
*edit* dammit, google already did it... I knew I shouldn't have held those top secret meetings on google talk and used the google browser for research... bastards!
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. GE, INTC, MSFT, GS, CSCO, KO
Basically, any company that is strong enough to survive a serious recession.

If you want to gamble, buy some GM or F. You could lose it all, but if these companies survive, you will make a killing.
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. thanks! n/t
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Ford mortgaged all they could, down to the last nut and bolt
Two years ago.

The only thing keeping Ford from being taken over is the unfunded pension liability that no other manufacturer wants to assume.

But, if I had some extra coin I'd spring for 10K shares.
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Captiosus Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. I'm not so sure how keen I am on MSFT.
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 01:14 AM by Captiosus
Microsoft looks low, and it's lower than it was back in June of 06, but the 3 and 5 year charts are very telling. It's stable, mostly, but jumpy and based on the charts it's not something I'd expect a high ROI on in the long term.

There's a lot of risk with Microsoft because of how aggressively they've tried getting into so many markets. Vista is still a drain on them, even though it's the OEM packaged OS, people just aren't into it (as evidenced by the 'Windows Mojave' ads). I'm not even sure if the Xbox 360 has gotten into profitability yet, and if it has I'm rather shocked simply because of how much they've had to write off for their new equipment repair warranty (which I've had to use, twice - just sayin'). Not sure how they're doing with the Zune or Zune marketplace.

The main reason I've strayed away from MSFT is because they have too many hands in too many cookie jars. If they release a substandard version of Office, they get smacked. If they release an OS that people don't care about, they get smacked. If the Xbox falls apart, they get smacked.

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Kartius Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. This is absolutely absurd advise
GE is seriously short of money because they are basically a financial sinkhole with their car financing arm. They are desperate for cash, why else would they give Buffet the sweetheart deal?

GS? Really? With the financial industry in shambles, their business model recked, their desperate need for capital, and their recent giveaway to Buffet because they are as close to bankrupt as you can get, yet I should be buying their stocks?

Don't buy GM or F no matter what. You will lose because they are both bankrupt. They are living off the teets of the government. Only thing worth buying from this list is KO.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. GE is always going to be around in one form or another.
They will probably spin off their unprofitable companies. I would wait until the price falls again, probably after Q4 earnings. I bought a little the other day when it was $18 and change.

I totally agree with you about GM and F, as well as GS.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. Local food production 'stocks' are a great choice.
Get some chickens.



In reality - look into S American investments.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. Buy something with a lot of cash and good credit.
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'd wait a day or 2 and see if the Dow dips even more.
We're almost at the bottom, I hope.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. the ones that are now low and will go high,
of course.

what kind of capitalist are you?
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
14. JPMorgan-Chase, Wells Fargo, Citibank, Bank of America
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 12:47 AM by TexasObserver
Those look to be moving up.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I think those have a good shot at moving up Monday.
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spag68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
15. Buying stocks
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 12:52 AM by spag68
I may be wrong, but isn't tomorrow a holiday of some sort. Are banks and stock markets even open?


That said, try Cheasapeak energy of Embreaur, vistas wind energy.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Banks are closed. Stock market is open for business. n/t
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
17. My husband still has money in a Fidelity account he thought he closed...
it's not allot but it's still paying div's...he's putting money back in :thumbsup:
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
18. Seriously?
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 12:53 AM by TWriterD
You'd buy on the advice from 'strangers' on a message board rather than doing your own research?
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Captiosus Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Personally, I wouldn't buy based solely on what people here said
But I don't see the harm in asking and using their suggestions to springboard my research.
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. I'd agree with that.
Edited on Mon Oct-13-08 01:07 AM by TWriterD
My advice would be to turn off Jim Cramer, ratchet down the emotion, and join an investment club if new to investing. Not sure whether the OP is or not.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
22. Don't buy anything you don't understand.
And when buying individual stocks, keep in mind that any one of them could go belly up and become worthless.

Caveat emptor.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
23. Unless you have
an equity portfolio of $250,000 or so then I would recommend that you buy a well managed, low fee value mutual fund and hold it for five years or so. You will need the $250,000 or so bucks in order to get good diversification. If you've got the change then pick up about 50 stocks across all industries. Good luck. You've got lots of research to do before morning. Here, have a cup of coffee......
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Kartius Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
25. Wait, why buy stocks while the financial crisis has yet to subside?
That is like buying a home while its located in the eye of a hurricane. The financial markets are dropping not simply because of fear. They are dropping because the financial industry is in shambles and no one knows if it can ever recover. Also, the economy is in terrible shape and stocks at this level may not even clearly reflect future earnings.

If you must buy, don't touch technology or consumer discretionary. Stick with consumer staples (J&J, general mills, mcdonalds, etc.) because these are the things that people will absolutely need regardless of what happens. However, this environment is terrible to begin investing. Stay away for the short term until this blows over and put the money in a bank account secured by the FDIC.
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CLG_News Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
26. Peoples Bank Bridgeport Connecticut (PBCT)
n/t
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
29. Go ahead and gamble if you wish.
It simply astonishes me that people are trying to bottom pick already. Does anybody REALLY believe that this whole Crisis we are seeing unfold, which not only affects the US, but virtually every country on the planet is just going to be over and done with in a few weeks, and then we go back to partying like it's 1999 all over again?

Do you really understand the magnitude of what's going on?

I don't have any trading advice for you, but I would urge you to look at a little essay that I found posted the other day at www.prudent bear.com. The guy who wrote it is one of the wisest investors I know, and his words really make sense, and pretty much capture in a nutshell the mentality we are still stuck in, even with the jaws of the abyss closing around the world's financial systems: EXCESSIVE SPECULATION.

It's rather long, but I think it is useful.

Read it, or don't. But they are words that everyone should heed.

As for my own opinion, I think we are more at risk for an inflationary event rather than a deflationary one. Just my two cents. And they could be worth about as much as a share of LEH Stock. Buy at your own risk.

***********************************************************************************************************


We are in a bear market, yet no one wants to recognize that. We are in a recession, yet we keep hearing about how we might avoid a recession. We have reached the level of maximum credit, yet the Fed pushes on a string, refusing to allow the markets to correct. Every bounce in the market brings in the debate between the talking heads that a bottom is in.

2006 was the year home prices peaked and trouble appeared on the horizon. The top wasn't in for 3 months before speculation started as to if the bottom had been hit or not. The year 2007 had more bottoms, despite the research and history being provided by Robert Shiller, whose name is now on the index he created, that housing was way out of the bounds of American pricing history. The appreciation was real, the subprime buyers were real buyers and the stall was nothing but a hiccup.

2007 saw the top of the stock market. A top in the early part of 2007 was followed by a break that many bears thought was the top. The bulls piled in and the market went higher. CDO's were still selling and hedge funds were still leveraging up on everything, providing massive cash. We had a mild panic in July 2007, followed by another bottom and bulls piled in and created a new high in October. The bulls had been buying for 2 years based on the idea that the Fed would cut rates and everything would be okay, even while the Fed was raising rates. Speculation was rampant and thinking was wishful.

What has 2008 provided us? In housing we have witnessed lower and lower prices and sales of existing homes has fallen to 4.9 million units. How many truly qualified new home buyers are out there? My guess is maybe enough to absorb 1.5 million to 2.5 million units annually, putting speculative purchases in the range of at least 50% of the market. They call these guys investors. I call them speculators and I think over the history of investing, these buyers would be called speculators and not investors.

Why would a housing market, where existing sales had fallen about 30% be speculative? I say it is speculative because there is a long history of statistics in housing sales and existing home sales had never exceeded 4 million units prior to 1997. That was the long term top. We are 125% of the long term top in home purchases. Some of this could be related to excessive inventories, but what we are looking at is excessive inventories being even more excessive if sales actually reflected the bust that prices are reflecting. What we are seeing is price declines in the midst of historically high home sales in a period where the claim is that credit is being restrictive. Normal busts would have home sales at or below 3 million units, not 5 million. http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2008/07/graphs-existing-home-sales.html If you look at this link, you will see where downturns have taken home sales and under any definition, housing is still in a speculative bubble. It is one that if it actually succeeds in turning a profit over the next couple of years will actually lead to an even larger bubble, more speculative lending and an even bigger bust. The NAR has carefully hidden long term statistics to hide the fact that home sales are still at boom levels on a nationwide basis and not in a bust, hoping of course to get more government aid and more speculative interest.

The stock market may be even more speculative. I can hear over and over again these guys talking about the bottom being in, how stocks are cheap and how earnings are going higher and higher. The 20 somethings and 30 somethings have never seen a market that wiped out a decade of gains, as the 1966 to 1976 market did, taking the Dow down to mid 1950's levels on a non-inflation adjusted basis in 1975. A return to prices last seen 20 years ago would take us down 80% from current levels, which is in the territory of where most bursted bubbles end up. The last trip down has created the idea that anything under the 2000 top is a bargain and anything under Dow 10,000 or Nasdaq 2000 has to be a steal, throwing out economics and financial principals that have prevailed up until this bubble.

It takes buyers to make the market go down because the market ceases to exist without buyers. The insiders have to become buyers or face ruin quite often as their inventories of stock have to be marked to market and thus they have to stop declines. But, they also get to sell out in general terms once the rallies happen. This time it might different as so much of the capacity to short stocks has been forbidden, thus denying the market of one of its key braking and rallying mechanisms, forced short covering.

I believe that there are literally millions of speculators out there on the long side that recent years have convinced that making money in stocks is simple business, just buy dips. The bigger the dip, the bigger the bargain. This time is different is what they say, and this time is different. I believe that the collapse after the House vote on the $700 billion fund to buy mortgages and other paper was due to the fact that the entire world had already front ran the news. What the bailout did was give the smart money time to sell out. Give the illiquid time to raise liquidity. Once the vote happened, the reason to buy was gone and the selling took over. The speculators were all in before, but they were there none the less. When the whole world is afraid of missing a rally on a vote, speculation is excessive.

There are prime indicators this is a speculative market. For one, there is the idea that prices are cheap. The Shiller index shows that prices are high, not cheap. Dividends are lower on the SPX now than they were at the peak in 1929, 1966 and 1987, yet stocks are being called cheap. The PE is based on the peak of a credit bubble, thus on inflated earnings and at the same point, historically high, not low, but being considered at bargain levels. There is buying on anticipation of the end of an economic downturn that hasn't even been admitted to exist. Supreme faith is being put in the Fed recreating the mess that got us in this mess in the first place.

This market is going to ruin about all that play it. Bears will get ripped to shreds and once bears gain faith to stay on their shorts, the bottom will be in, as there will be a rally that totally wipes out short margin. But, in the meantime, bulls will continue to relate to the highs on stocks and the shortness of prior recessions. The 2001 recession literally didn't happen if you believe statistics, though the market didn't finish declining for a year after the recession supposedly ended. The bulls say the market will see the end of the recession 6 months early, while it took a year last time for the market to see the end of the recession. Such are bubbles, as opposed to normal markets.

I lived through a housing bust in DFW back in the 1980's. The bust started in 1983 to the best of my estimate and wasn't over until about 1992 or 1993. DFW was a rapidly growing metro area during that time, not a ghost town. One problem DFW had and I believe a problem California and Florida are going to have is that housing and commercial real estate were such huge parts of the local economies, long term growth having been established much earlier that the industry itself put a hole in demand.

There were some amazing deals on the DFW real estate market in 1992. Guys with deep pockets picked up deals that broke guys with deep pockets several years earlier. Trammel Crow, who was one of the biggest developers in the world was on the ropes by 1992 and couldn't buy anything. My guess is Buffett will be on the ropes by the end of this one and won't be buying much. There won't be much dry powder by the time this bear is done.

This is why I am a deflationist. I will cover in another writing what I think is going on, why the Fed, despite its current recklessness, won't be able to produce the expected inflation until we don't need it. I think the basic problem is the bulk of debt that can be covered is in the financial, business and corporate management areas and stocks will be sold to cover debt. Instead of the cash changing accounts as it has over the past several decades, this cash is going to pay credit. Irving Fisher, in his deflation thesis (Bernanke is clearly a follower of Fisher, who was a Wall Street delusional socialist), said the more debt was paid down, the greater the actual value of what was owed. What the bulls think is the solution is nothing more than keeping the door open for this process to occur. Until everyone that wants to buy to make a quick buck is broke, this market will keep going down.

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Captiosus Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. A good read, thank you. (n/t)
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
30. Things that will do well after the crash in November. Adobe, AutoDesk,
things that are positioned for the new big changes forced on us.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
31. I'm buying powerball tickets this week.
Right now, I think my odds are better than your's.
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
33. I just bought some. Canadian Investment Trusts.
AGQNF - Algonquin Power Income and
MCQPF - Macquarie Power & Infrastructure

At these prices they're paying almost 25% annual dividend.
At this rate of return I can afford to take a hit on the Canadian dollar (Looney)- U.S. dollar exchange rate.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. and of course in a short time the dividend will be reduced
i made that same idiotic mistake back in the day

seems like we never learn from other's mistakes, we have to keep making the same idiotic mistakes ourselves and get burned before we figure it out

a 25% return is a classic "too good to be true"
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
35. a clue
learn about what volatility is and learn something about the history of the stock market as a whole and then get back to us

if you want to gamble, it's stupid to put money in stocks when you can gamble in vegas for the same price and get airfare, hotel, food beverage and shows thrown in as a bonus (casinos aim to return 40% of your expected loss in the form of comps)

you don't get anything back for your expected loss from gambling in the stock market

i will give you one tiny clue that anyone should know before buying a stock -- when the stock market collapsed in 1929 it did not return to its previous level of sept 1929 again until 1952 -- bless your heart if you have gambling money to lock up for no profit for that long
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. settle down... i woke up this morning... bought some stocks
and am now selling them now around 2 p.m.... made around 5% ... no harm done. jeez.
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
38. Corning Glass - GLW
but that is only my opinion.
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RollWithIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
39. General Motors, Ford
You are buying on a five year basis. They will never be this low again in your lifetime.
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