Punched in the gut, figuratively, by a long time friend.

[Captiosus]

Earlier this evening, I was (finally) able to get in touch with a long time friend of mine with whom I've had no contact for years. He's a guy from my past, considerably older than myself, and was, at one time, the man who would have been my guardian had anything happened to my parents while I was still a minor.

He and I always got along well. I always knew he was "right leaning" mainly because of his background and his love of firearms. However, when we talked politics he always would listen to both arguments and was generally a very tolerant person. Eight or so year ago he took a long vacation to Asia and got to meet a fairly "high ranking" Buddhist monk. This was one of his highlights of his trip and he had a picture that he loved to show while he talked about the "eye opening" experience.

The open minded guy I knew, but hadn't talked to in four years, was not the guy I talked to today. I'm not going to censor any of the quotes he said because I don't believe in censorship but I will warn you they're pretty bad. Think Freeper bad, possibly worse.

What started as a "Hey, long time no talk call" turned bad rapidly when he asked me how I felt about the bailout. When I responded that I had mixed feelings but my Presidential candidate of choice supported it so I was deferring to his judgement, all hell broke loose.

For the next 65 minutes, I heard the following (I'm adding the emphasis as it was said to me):
2x "I'll never vote for anyone named HUSSEIN Obama."
3x "Hussein Obama is a fucking terrorist and his elitist friend Ayers hates this country."
12x "Fuckin' faggots" (used in various derogatory context).
2x "I'll never support gay marriage, we know what unnatural things they do behind closed doors."
1x "Muslims are pedophiles and rapists."
1x "Muslims should be wiped off the face of the earth and I proudly have an INFIDEL bumper sticker."
2x "Hussein Obama prays to Allah, not God."
1x "Christianity is the only true religion."
2x "Fox News is the only cable news with the balls to report the truth."
1x "You should watch Neil Cavuto and Bill'O, you'd like them."
2x "Sarah Palin isn't a politician, she's a real person."
1x "This economic bullshit is Carter and Clinton's fault."
1x "If Hussein Obama wins, this country is going to go to hell."
1x "It's OBAMA supporters who are stealing OBAMA signs and then blaming McCain supporters. Conservatives are the only rational voters. Liberals are full of shit and are all insane."

This was pure, unadulterated hate speech. I didn't even try to argue talking points with him because I knew his mind was absolutely closed off. So I just let him ramble.

I felt like I had been punched in the gut because this isn't the guy I remember.
I don't mind if someone has a different opinion than me, politically. Really, I don't. I don't agree with "trickle down" economics, but if someone else does, good for them. However, when someone goes into full on hate mongering, I find it saddening. When it's someone I respected, it's outright depressing.

The funniest comment came at the end of his diatribe:
"I'm not an extremist, I'm just a right leaning centrist who votes republican."

:wtf:

After we had gotten past that patch of free floating hate and the conversation went back on topic of just touching base, he invited me to visit. I think I'll pass. In fact, I think when Obama wins, I'm going to send him an e-mail simply stating "That's PRESIDENT-ELECT Barack Hussein Obama to you."

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I am sad for you...

That must have been really stunningly bad...

I wonder what happened.

I think taking a pass on visiting is a very good idea...

Almost as good as your email...;)


K&R

:patriot:

[Super62]

2. What a waste-

Cross him off the list dude.

[Captiosus]

6. You don't have to tell me twice.

I wrote him off just after the phone call.

I just had to get it off my chest because it's damn depressing. This was a guy I respected, a guy I considered a smart, educated man, and somehow, in the last couple of years since we last spoke, he's become a complete RW nutjob.

[Stargazer09]

26. Faux news tends to do that to people

As well as Rush and Coulter and all of the other hate-spewing RW talking heads out there.

It's really sad, and I'm sorry you had to go through all of that. Nobody deserves to listen to such hatred.

[reggie the dog]

55. I believe in redemption

so I would not write that person off. Go visit, go out hiking together, and call him out on some of his worst points. say stuff like "why do you give a damn what gay people do behind their closed doors?" or "you mean to tell me you would not like to watch two chicks going at it"......

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. I had a friend like that.

Ex-Jarhead. He literally lost his mind over Sept.11, 2001. Then he developed brain cancer and that was, as they say, that. He died on Election Day 2006, which all that knew him found quite symbolic.

There is no reasoning with someone of that mindset. Facts are immaterial, because they will embrace any lie that counters the facts.

Move on. He's not the same person you remember.

[Vickers]

4. Cut 'em loose.

Seriously.

[Eric J in MN]

5. A few years ago, there was a Daily Kos diary...

...by a guy whose elderly mother watched Fox News,
and who started saying that she was scared-of-liberals and other things she'd never said before.

[alittlelark]

7. Uh.....yeah......wow.

Lotsa talking points there.

Lotsa weird stuff.

You Betcha!

[Robbien]

8. This hate talk radio and fauxnews are destroying this country

Along with the fundie churches who are preaching hate against liberals.

They are turning reasonable GOPers into rabid wingnuts. I don't see how this will ever turn around with the stranglehold the right wing has on the media and faith based groups.

[Indiana_Dem]

9. I'm sorry to hear that. I know how you feel.

My experience isn't quite the same as with your close "godfather" figure but I've endured the same arrows from doctors I work with in front of all of my co-workers, and even my own dad. I avoid one certain doctor (he's from Idaho & from military + NASCAR fan) but he corners me sometimes when he's feeling cocky because he knows I'm a 'librul. (I'm a nurse so I have to work with him). He did tell me he has a "sissy" son getting a degree in journalism who is also for Obama. Ugh!

I can't even speak with my dad about politics after one argument we had. He lives 2000 miles away from me. It's weird because he lives in a liberal state (L.A., CA) and I live in a rural midwestern state. We should be living in opposite places according to our political philosophies.

[snot]

10. re- your last words, one thought:

"Hatred never ceases by hatred;
But by love alone is healed.
This is an ancient and eternal law."
-- "Dhammapada," Ch. 1, the Twin Verses 5, as quoted by Maha Ghosananda

[Captiosus]

11. I wouldn't be e-mailing him out of hatred.

It would be more of a gloating e-mail.

Though I see where you're coming from, and, yeah, it's bad karma.

What I really want to do is call him again and tell him how disappointed I am in him, but it wouldn't have any effect. It would just start the whole thing over again.

[lildreamer316]

33. Thank you for the quote.

Bookmarked.

[reggie the dog]

58. cool, what would Jah do???

paraphrase of Bob Marley, "the only way you gonna win da war is to hit them with Jah, cause love gonna win da war, if ya win da war in any other way ya just gonna fight again....." What makes us liberals is our ablilty to forgive.....once they repent, if their acts were not too overboard such as murder, cross burning etc.....

[canetoad]

12. It's sad when you no longer share values with a friend

but I'm curious to know if, in the years when you had no contact, he got caught up in fundy/evangelical religion. It could explain the change.

[Captiosus]

14. I think it's a possibility.

I know during the course of our conversation he mentioned his son's wife got killed in an auto accident a couple years back and he took it pretty hard.

I wouldn't be surprised if that drove him to religion and things just went south from there. I wasn't about to ask, though, not after that hour long rant.

[canetoad]

16. Probably just as well you didn't

Converts are not renowned for their objectivity where their religion is questioned.

[yardwork]

64. That happened to somebody I know, too.

He was a very sweet and thoughtful young man, kind of naive about the world. His son died and he and his wife became very active in fundy church. After a couple of years he was totally brainwashed.

I admire the posters here who remind us of Jesus's words about love and redemption. Unfortunately, I don't have enough patience. I just get mad at the idiots and it's better for me to stay away from them. I just make things worse.

[BrklynLiberal]

13. That is a very sad tale. It is an indication of what McSame and the barracuda are tapping into.

It is very scary to know how cleverly they bring out the deepest, darkest parts of people.

[Poseidan]

15. best thing about morons...

When they're proven wrong. Be sure to have a camera ready.

[47of74]

17. 65 minutes?

I probably would've just hung up after one minute and wrote the guy off altogether - refusing to talk to him anymore or respond to any other communication beyond placing said communications in the circular file.

[Captiosus]

20. Two things were keeping me on the phone

1. I was trying to be polite.
2. I was secretly hoping at some point he'd stop and say, "HAHAH! I was completely bullshitting you!"

[reggie the dog]

59. keep him as a friend

go visit, and try to convince him that he is being mean spirited, and that there are logical reasons to vote Republican which are not hate filled (I know there are not many but stay with me here). As you said he was trying to be polite. I have friends who watch fox news only and are staunch Republicans now who are big time reefer smokers and hate government intrusion into their lives. I havent given up on them because they are my buddies from back in high school. We were friends BEFORE we gave a damn about politics. We talked about the presidential race for about five minutes this summer. Then I proposed that "you will never convince me, I will never convince you, let's see what happens and talk about it again before the 2012 elections" they (my buddy and his brother" agreed to just chill out, watch movies, talk about our kids and wives and work.....you know just live day to day life like buddies. They are still some of my closest friends because they are nice people at heart, they are more generous than me in everyday life (truly, they are the family who taught me to think of others first, they got me to think of gay people as people because they were ravers and got over their homophobia earlier than I did, itis just that their coolness just doesnt trump out their fear of terrorism). If we give up on people like this they will just surround themselves with like thinkers, as we would also be doing, and that will lead to a divided country. At the end of the day I can chill, smoke a jay, listen to music and go hiking with just about anyone.

[kitty1]

18. The redneck type ignorance out there is truly frightening isn't it......

I find it so hard to fathom that seemingly intelligent people can have such narrow minded views of people and situations. Especially when it comes to politics.
Everything is looked at in black and white. It's like a mass brainwashing going on thru the GOP areas, and it doesn't make any sense at all.
That one woman that was shown in the video clip throughout the media had stated that she didn't trust Obama because he was an Arab. Unbelievable stuff out there. It's downright scary what people believe.
The categorizing of a whole group of people as pedophiles or rapists because of their culture is incredulous especially when you look at the torture and raping that has gone on with prisoners by the military in the U.S. Do these people remember Abu Ghraib and the atrocities performed there.
How about the raping and killing of countless thousands of Iraqis at the hands of the American military over the years.
There is still a lot of deep rooted racism out there even in this century of tolerance and political correctness.

[prayin4rain]

19. yeah it is surreal.... n/t

[Hekate]

21. I'm so sorry for the loss of your old friend. Sincere condolences...

Just one thought: is he enough older than you to have mental slippage?

Regardless, it's probably better to just let President Barack Obama's election pass without comment. The guy might *really* let you know what he thinks. :eyes:

Hekate

[Swamp Rat]

22. Welcome to DU!

:hi: Sorry about your friend. :hug:

[Captiosus]

24. Thanks, Swamp!

I'm awestruck by your artwork daily. :)

[Swamp Rat]

25. Thanks

:)

[AndyTiedye]

23. It's Like "Invasion of the Body-Snatchers"

Someone watches Faux News once too often,
or goes to one of those "mega-churches"
and just like that they turn into pod people!

[dmr]

35. Which is why I wish we could do something about Fox

I 'lost' my brother to Fox and the televangelists. I'm a sinner and unworthy according to him.

I've heard many times from people that the government wouldn't let Fox News or any news entity lie to the American people. Americans don't believe and won't tolerate in propaganda, so I've been told more than once.

I did get my neighbor and his wife away from Fox. During the summer I would invite them over for coffee and fresh-baked dessert. While we sat chatting in the dining room, I purposely had Olbermann on in the background. Always - always - something would peak their interest, and they would listen. One of them would then say "I didn't know that." Or say something like they heard it different.

I would just say, well, let's check it out on the computer. And sure enough - Olbermann was telling a truth they learned was either a lie or skewered in the right-wing favor.

I'm really happy to say they both are voting for Obama. At first they weren't going to vote at all. They wouldn't vote for a Democrat. But they came by after the last debate saying they made up their mind on what to do - and then showed me home-made Obama-Biden signs they made for their living room window and for mine too!!

I'd like to say a few of the things that sold them was Obama's thoughtful and intelligent responses, and grace and dignity under fire. With the pounding he's received, and the turmoil in the country and world, the man does have grace and dignity and intelligence.

[reggie the dog]

60. not everyone

I have an aunt and an uncle who go to a mega church and are still die hard Illinois Democrats, public school funding is HUGE for them!!

[Beregond2]

27. I've wasted a lot of time trying to find the good in people like that,

trying to understand what motivates them. No more.

[file83]

31. It has made me realize how weak some people's hearts are to the temptations...

...of hatred. It's an easy way out for the mentally lazy, because the hatred does all the work for them - no thinking required.

In short, they are stupid.

[Grey]

28. Buddha would not be amused .....

"Eight or so year ago he took a long vacation to Asia and got to meet a fairly "high ranking" Buddhist monk. This was one of his highlights of his trip and he had a picture that he loved to show while he talked about the "eye opening" experience". He needs to ask himself 'what would Buddha say? " The 8 fold path is strong, anger and hate are weak.

[Greyhound]

29. I feel for you. Have had similar experiences (too many to contemplate right now) and it

never gets easier. I used to know people with whom I disagreed with on various religious and political issues, but whom were intelligent, even brilliant in one case, educated, rational beings. We would enjoy our debates and occasionally one of us would change our stance based on the quality of the argument, and then we would go about our lives and continue as friends.

That hasn't happen for me in the last 8 or 9 years. It's as if the constant indoctrination from Faux and the Mellon-Scaife conglomerates has altered their minds.

One acquaintance, an heiress to a bakery fortune, was a relatively bright, sane person, extremely well educated (speaks 5 languages, graduated from the Sorbonne, another degree in international law, though she never practiced, etc.), worldly, became addicted to Faux after 9/11 and now she is absolutely convinced that there are terrorists everywhere and they are all out to get her and there is nothing too extreme, including permanent martial law under shrub, to stop this scourge.

While I don't watch TV, I have seen Faux many times and have even listened to Limpballs and Insanity on the radio, I simply cannot fathom how this completely transparent, even amateurishly crude, propaganda is so effective. I can't argue it's evident effectiveness, but how on earth can otherwise intelligent, sophisticated people be so susceptible to it's corrosive influence?

I've even thought that maybe there is some subliminal mind control element in the broadcasts, that I've missed or not been exposed to for enough time to be seduced. It is really scary.:scared: Especially when one realizes that some of these people have real influence on the way the world operates.

[aquart]

30. Oh, I'd rather you didn't.

He owns guns and you don't know him anymore.

[Captiosus]

62. Don't worry, I'm not going to send him any e-mails.

It was just how I was feeling last night.

At least for now I'm not planning on any communication with him.

[Ikonoklast]

32. It always comes down to fear.

Fear of change.

They want things to be absolute; in terms they can understand.

They yearn for a past that never really was, and fear a future that they cannot control.

[Chulanowa]

34. As others have said, it's the news he turns to that does this

People have three choices when driving to work - Shitty music, talk radio, or silence. Lots of adults choose talk radio - silence in traffic is irritating, and who wants to listen to the top 40 again? For most it's just background noise, something to keep that little part of their brain that relishes something resembling conversation entertained. Something catches their interest, and little by little they begin regarding Limbaugh and Hannity as "news", bolstered by the constant propaganda against other "news" outlets. This propaganda gets folks to turn off everything but fox news.

It's not that he's at heart a hateful person. it's that he's been indoctrinated. It's not a weakness inherent in his character, it can and does happen to anyone. Unlike others here I wouldn't automatically cut him loose, but would instead make at least some effort to defuse a few of his notions. Start with the "liberal media" crap first. It'll be a lot of work and headache, but if you think it might be worth it, I'd say give it a shot

He's been misled to believe that all that shit is really "centrist" positions.

[Patiod]

38. Several friends have been sucked in that way

Mostly listening to Micheal Smerconish on the way to work (fortunately, Smerconsih is, shockinly, coming around on Obama)

[Ex Lurker]

36. I understand your hurt, but consider forgoing the email

it would accomplish nothing. JMHO.

[kaybea]

37. It's a mental virus...some people 'catch' it or are more 'susceptible'

Sometimes I feel like we live in a body snatchers scenario. The people that we once knew look the same on the outside but they've changed inside. Like in the movie (remake), they figuratively fell asleep and the mental virus was able to take over during that unaware stage of their consciousness.

[Sewsojm]

39. Brainwashed,

Another victim of right wing hate radio and faux noise, I actually feel sorry for him because he doesn't realized he's been brainwashed.

[zanne]

40. I'm surprised you listened for that long.

I would have hung up after the first assault.

[deutsey]

41. I had a similar email exchange with a now former friend in 2004

We were pretty good friends in college and I was even in his wedding. We kept in touch over the years (usually through very brief emails) until he sent me an email in 2004 ridiculing Howard Stern for supporting Kerry.

I was going to let it go, but I wrote back that although I wasn't a fan of Stern, I'd take him and Kerry over Rush and Bush.

A fairly innocuous retort, I thought. Well, it ended up tripping a wire in my friend. In the ensuing emails we exchanged I learned that my friend had become a rabid rightwinger and fundamentalist. He literally accused me of being in the clutches of Satan and said I was going to spend eternity in hell. In some ways, I wish I had kept his emails to quote from, but they were some of the creepiest things I've ever read, so I deleted them. Not to brag, but I kept the exchange civil and tried to retain common ground between us, but he wouldn't have it (the civility or the common ground).

So it goes. We had a good friendship at one time but he's obviously no longer the person I used to know.

[NNN0LHI]

42. Your friend is very wealthy isn't he?

[Captiosus]

61. He wishes he was.

He's a high school teacher.
Guess what he teaches: 11th U.S. History and 12th Government.
Scary, no?

In fact he ranted, after the initial rant, about how his entire savings was depleted and how he had to get a second mortgage on his home to make ends meet. Of course, he tied this back into politics by saying only McCain could fix this economy and Obama would make him "destitute", but I managed to avoid a second political rant by changing the topic to music.

[JVS]

43. Jimmy Carter is to blame for the stock market crash?

:rofl:

[yardwork]

65. That and all the other things he said are right-wing talking points making their way around.

[ravencalling]

44. I have good friends as well

who are right-wing in a very red state. But they acknowledge the ugliness of the campaign right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if they voted for Obama.

With that said, after a visit to friends this weekend, it was hard to get away from FOX news blaring. I joked with my friends and stated, geez.. FOX news is so right-wing. They actually agreed with me which I thought was surprising!

You know there are some very good people who would vote their conscience if it wasn't for FOX news screaming in their ear day in and day out.

I really hate FOX news and I believe that we should do everything in our power to discredit it, or at least enlighten people who can't seem to turn the channel.

FOX needs to be taken down. It can still exist of course, but it needs to be stated far and wide that FOX is NOT a news source or a news channel, that it is a right-wing televised entertainment rag that has less credibility then Enquirer or your daily horoscope.

[progressoid]

45. "I'm not an extremist, I'm just a right leaning centrist who votes republican."

I know some one like that. Yet she thinks it's normal to read Ann Coulter.

[sunnystarr]

46. Don't write your friend off yet

Between the 2000 and 2004 elections my daughter, highly intelligent and educated, had her mind taken over by Faux News, Ann Coulter, and right wing radio. I watched the process gradually take over her ideology until we couldn't have a conversation that included politics (which is hard since I'm such a complete political junkie).

I was devastated. Our family and extended family have been generationally democratic. I felt that I lost a part of myself since we had always been so close and we loved discussing politics.

But the signs were there for this "conversion." She and her husband had to struggle for everything in their marriage. They both started out educated but with minimum wage jobs. Her husband's degree in English didn't prepare him for anything and he finally signed on as a non-union electrical apprentice. She worked in a grocery store. Over time they moved and he got into the union and she went to nursing school. In the end they both made excellent salaries. But the struggle in the early years led to a decision not to have any more children than their one son. They couldn't afford to have more children.

Her sister was pregnant before she finished high school and married and had 3 children two years apart. They didn't go to college (until later years) and their early years were spent on welfare and food stamps. This angered my first daughter who felt they were doing everything right and worked their ass off, making sacrifices, while she saw her sister get public help while not working or making sacrifices. To make matters worse, when my first daughter and son-in-law made more money they had a big tax bill and always had to pay in on April 15th. Her younger sister and brother-in-law always got money back.

This made her ripe for the picking and open to the right wing talking points.

But the last four years finally opened her eyes. It wasn't anything I said (unfortunately - and I so hate not having any influence lol). She finally saw Bush for what he is. She finally understood trickle down economics. She finally recognized the lies and distortions from Faux and rw radio hosts and abandoned them. Now she phones me railing against McCain/Palin and with her excitement for Barack Obama. She also got her husband to see the light and he abandoned his libertarian stand.

I now have my daughter back and I realize that no matter how ingrained some people are with right wing media propaganda, there is always hope that the light of the truth will prevail in the end.

[hatrack]

47. He didn't get your phone number, did he?

:puke:

[dhpgetsit]

48. I am so sick and tired of this divisive culture wars shit!

My parents used to say we had 2 ears, 2 eyes and only one mouth because we should do more listening and watching than talking. These idiots don't listen, don't learn, and only scream their hate and fear 24 hours a day.

[tavalon]

49. I'm not trying to one up you but I had the same thing happen

except it was my stepbrother with whom I lost contact at age 13 (when I ditched my crazy ass father and his whacked out wife). He found me about 6 years ago through classmates.com. I remembered him as my cool older brother, but in the ensuing 27 years, I had moved left and he moved right. I ditched him after a couple of years of his insane emails.

[Javaman]

50. My very first question to people like that is...

"why are you so angry?"

[CitizenPatriot]

51. Fox is the Minsitry of Truth

they really are a problem if we are going to be a democracy.

Good points by all:

why are these people so angry?

The greatest question.

Why do you hear things on Fox that no other news station is reporting?

Do you realize you are part of a Kult?

Fascism wraps itself in God and the Flag when it comes creeping up.

MkKkaine, ruining this country one rally at a time.

[bunkerbuster1]

52. The righties have been given political cover to act like juveniles for a long, long time.

It's going to take awhile to get people to start behaving themselves again and maybe think a little bit before spouting such rubbish. I do think that day will come, but it might get uglier before it gets better.

Anyway, about your friend, I've had similar WTF moments with people I've known. It's never fun.

[Imagevision]

53. It's really a pain in the butt when family members fail to see the light and I say,

and I'm going to send you to college? I'm constantly reminded how much FOXnews has all the information I need to know?

[Mz Pip]

54. Ther's probably

a good reason why you have not been in touch with him in a long time. Some old friends are best left in the past.

[Liberal_in_LA]

56. what? No slurs against blacks, women, vegetarians and the disabled?

[Quantess]

57. Is he interested in the economy? Or not?

He's obviously concerned about the bailout, since he asked. But judging by everything else he said, it looks like he's not interested in the economy, after all.

What a confused guy. He needs to put his thoughts down on paper so he can see for himself how irrational his thoughts are.

[Rambis]

63. Sucks

I realized a good friend of mines' father is a right wing whack job. Nice guy back in the day used to go fishing with him (bullheads never touch them) but it saddens me. His last comment politically was "That Tom Harkin, we are gonna get that SOB never did anything for Iowa"
Tom Harkin is one of the most respected men in Washington DC. He authored the Americans with disabilities act for fuck sake! Two of my friends fathers children were so obese they could not work and had to be taken care of medically by the government. Very sad, now he is 1000% NASCAR all the time and I know fuck all about NASCAR so I can't even converse with the man. Very sad!