Are you worried about the financial crisis? I can't sleep.

[calmblueocean]

You know how it is. You start reading articles on the internet, and the more you read, the worse things look.

BILL MOYERS:But this is disturbing, George. If everything we're doing keeps accelerating the downward negative feedback and isn't working, are you suggesting, can one insinuate from what you say that we're heading for 1930?

GEORGE SOROS:Hopefully not. But we are heading for undoubtedly very difficult times. This is the end of an era. And this is a fact.

BILL MOYERS:End of an era?

GEORGE SOROS:At the end of an era.

BILL MOYERS:Capitalism as we have known it?

GEORGE SOROS:No. No, no, no. Hopefully, capitalism will survive.

-- http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10102008/watch.html

"Hopefully?" "The end of an era?"

The White House is now "re-tooling" the bailout plan, because the markets didn't respond to it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/business/12imf.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&src=igw&oref=slogin

It feels like the government is slowly realizing that solving this crisis and stopping the markets from crashing is beyond their capability. And I keep wondering what that's going to really mean for the economy if that's true.


How many businesses will end up collapsing because they can't meet payroll, or must lay off large numbers of workers to do it? Will it happen to my wife and me? What would we do if it did? We don't have much saved up. We rent. What if no one is hiring once the markets tumble? What would we do if they evicted us?

Then I broaden it to thinking about my friends and relatives, even folks I don't know. What will all the senior citizens out there who are counting on their investments do when the market dries up? If they can't pay the mortgage, and they can't sell the house, and they get foreclosed on, where will they go? How will they live?

Yeah, I know... a lot of what ifs. But what-iffing is what you do when you feel powerless to solve a problem that's going to affect you.

It feels like we're living in a very portentous moment right now. Like these might be the last days we can pretend everything's gonna be fine. I don't trust Bernanke or Paulson or any of Bush's people in the Treasury Dept. to do the right things to get us out of this safely. After 9/11, after Iraq, after Katrina... how could anyone?

Never thought I'd live through something like this. Whatever happens, I try to remind myself that we're all going to be in this together as a nation, and that's a good thing. Obama is going to be president, and that's a good thing, too. I don't envy him the job he finds when he takes office, but I know he will work with the best interests of everyday people in mind, and not the banks or Wall Street. I know it in part because I've been reading "Dreams of my Father", where his compassion and intellect shine through. I just hope the bigots and haters on the right will let him do the job he needs to do. I have my doubts.

Anyway, I hope that this post ends up being a failed prediction. I hope I'm wrong about all this. I hope Bush and Bernanke and Paulson kick ass and dream up phenomenal plans that save the day. But have they ever?

Are you worried?

[melody]

1. When a building begins to age, the way it remains standing and eases its fall ...

Is by moving to the middle and having all the elements lean against each other for greater stability and to slow the descent. That's what happens with any kind of system contraction, I'd imagine. We will all have to lean on each other ... we'll have no other choice. Families will have to condense into places. Friends, too. There's greater safety and strength in numbers.

My neighborhood is already putting together a coalition. Preparedness is all we have. And hope.

That's what has helped me sleep anyway. lol We're all in this together.

[murielm99]

2. I have spoken to my grown children about that.

Families may have to condense into places.

We have discussed what may happen if we all have to live closer in order to survive. I hope that does not happen.

[FarCenter]

22. You can get a lot of people into a McMansion

In earlier days, brownstones in the cities were subdivided into multi-family homes. I'd expect to see the more remote suburbs vacated, and settlement revert to a more compact form closer to public transportation.

[melody]

39. The McMansions are the decided minority of houses

Most people live in something closer to my home (all 800 sq ft of it). The lifestyle most people will be reducing won't be extravagances but relative necessities -- do we need to heat every room or can we just heat this room and put cots in during the winter. That sort of thing.

[murielm99]

40. I attended a Democratic political rally in a nearby county

yesterday. One of the candidates spoke about this.

We live in a largely rural area. People depend on the jobs in nearby plants and businesses. We can live here only because these jobs exist. Some people drive long distances to other jobs, too. As the local jobs dry up and the price of gas defeats consumers, our medium size towns and small villages are going to turn into ghost towns. We need to do something to keep our communities alive.

I always thought it was a plus that I live in the country. We can grow our own food if necessary, and we have basic survival skills, which many urban people do not have. That might not be enough without jobs.

Let's win this election. It will be a first step toward getting us out of this depressing hole.

[dhpgetsit]

38. We already have 2 families living in this double-wide.

We're still way better off that most of the people in the world. People do what they have to to make it. We have to be willing to make lifestyle changes and help one another. This country has all the ingredients to rebuild.

[tblue]

3. I think we're all worried.

Well, yes, I can sleep because I take anti-depressants anyway, and they help me sleep. Like you, I am frightened but I'm trying not to look at this as a day-to-day problem. I know it's gonna take some time to work out. I'm also thinking, maybe things had to get really, really terrible before they could start to get better, before people could put aside their boneheaded prejudices and their pettiness and their inflated nationalism. Without a crisis like this, Americans would be absolutely too complacent to demand a better gov't the way you (probably) and I have been since 2000. Now, everyone is outraged. None of us is alone in this. The entire planet is up in arms. It is damned scary, without question. But I also look forward to what's ahead. Obama has the opportunity to become one of the greatest presidents of all time, because he will pull us back from the brink. We will someday look back on this time and tell our children we were there when this great man saved our country. So, I am hopeful. Very hopeful. And that gives me some peace of mind.

There's nothing at all for you to do at this moment. No decisions to be made tonight. They say what you focus on increases, so try your best to focus on what you want and what you hope for instead of what you fear. I hope you will sleep well tonight.

[Selatius]

4. Capitalism will never survive in its current form. It will be replaced with a hybrid system.

The notion that no regulation is good regulation will be shown to be a farce for those who believe firmly in the notion of free markets.

This problem is bigger than one person. It's gonna take government power to deal with this and common sense on the individual level.

In the mean time, seek solace in cutting any and all luxury spending and stockpiling canned food. Examine your spending habits and decide on changes if necessary in order to curb frivolous spending. Stockpile money as well.

[truthisfreedom]

5. Have a shot of brandy and go directly to sleep.

You'll need a clear head next week.

[ReadTomPaine]

6. Good advice. n/t

[FlyingSquirrel]

7. We don't worry about these sorts of things on Saturday here at DU.

:D

Check in Sunday evening as the market watchers get wound up again.

Until then, I'd suggest joining one of the many "Asshat" threads in GDP, or perhaps this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7420098&mesg_id=7420098

[Jeroen]

8. George Soros's analysis is excellent. Recommended

[bridgit]

9. I'm thankful for work, clients, bits of future...

But never so poignant has this guy I live with been so spot-on as when he said one day years back now that we needed to start moving in smaller, even more elegant circles. Just BAM! Said that was where we needed to be. So I watched. I did/do my thing so there's that. I'm a good girl I deserve it. I bought cat sand (that hubby calls "ass-sand")! Fish; Timmy Peepers loves fish the fish I buy him ;) Worked, signed agreements, got paid, drunk a little rivulet of booze yada-yada stuff laundry sucking it up the whole nine all over again the next day but I'm telling you...

I listened to Soros for a solid 15-17 minutes, but I was there. Like the way he thinks. I like the way thought's travel across his face, and the conclusions they form, but it was clear...

This entire economic calamity America is experiencing is thus far so far above me that I am able to pray that I am thankful for the idea, "Live in smaller, more elegant circles"

And so it is the case I am likely far less worried than I should be to answer your Q

[girl gone mad]

10. I feel that..

the sooner the PTB realize they can't prop up the debt bubble any longer, the better off we will all be. I was relieved to see that the markets didn't fall for the bailout, though I am saddened to see people losing money on their investments. Trickle-down, Chicago School economics has been a proven failure time and time again, yet we're still burdened with it.

This country will be better off the sooner we start investing money in infrastructure, education, bringing back manufacturing and improving health care. The system we have in place is inefficient and rewards corruption, greed and excessive risk taking. We can't afford to keep it.

[Skittles]

11. I think the older you are, the more worried you are

yup

[Waiting For Everyman]

12. Bush is trying to put off nationalizing our banking system until he leaves.

But when that does happen, it could end up being a silver lining in this crisis. We *might* actually get out from under Wall St. Who would've thought we'd have any chance of that?

The Japanese told us and the UK that's what we'll have to do, based on their experience. It's inevitable, given our situation. But I think the problem now is that W. doesn't want to be the one to do it, but it might have to be done sooner than he wants anyway.

I can relate to your anxiety CBO. These are hairy times for sure, and I'm not secure either. Hope and pray. I already feel like I've been holding onto a flagpole in a hurricane for several years now. It'll be more of the same only worse, I guess.

There are solutions to this though. IF they are taken. Sooner or later, the conservatives will have to give up their financial ideology and get out of the way. It's a question of how long that will take, and how far we'll slide in that time. I did see that the Congress is planning to deal with this after the election. The timing really sucks, but in another way, the timing could be our prayers anwered too.

One tip from me: If you aren't sure that you can keep on paying your credit cards as this gets worse, then for God's sake give up trying and hold onto the cash instead, if that will make a serious difference to your situation. If you know your credit score's going to get hit anyway, don't even worry about it. Think survival for yourself and your family first.

[magellan]

13. That interview was great, and yes, I'm worried

Not sleepless nights worried yet exactly, because we've been through so much crap already...I think I'm just hanging out in the corner being cynical and thinking, "Of course the worst is going to happen, with BushCo the worst almost ALWAYS happens, and if it doesn't it's not for lack of trying." And doing what I can to prepare.

I don't have great hopes for us averting the disaster Soros hesitantly alludes to because the mob in charge are predictable as the sun rising in the east. If they do manage to tamp things down through the election, it'll only be because they did just enough to put off the moment the wheels come flying off.

I don't even want to think what we'll face if McSame is elected (by Diebold). What little hope I have lies in Obama winning and immediately sending his Treasury team in to keep an eye on what the bastards are doing.

[Odin2005]

14. Sorry Soros, I hope Capitalism DIES.

I want an economy based on co-ops, AKA Market Socialism. The employees should be the owners of their companies. The parasitic investor class should be replaced by a system of government-owned investment banks linked to the Federal Reserve system.

[femrap]

25. I'm so glad to hear this from

a young person. The young people I work with are into Consumerism...they really get on my nerves to the point I don't want to listen or talk with them. They behave like sheep.

Yes, the Fed must go. Supposedly 12.21.12 brings in a new era...at least the Mayans and Hopis see this.

Thank you for giving me hope regarding the upcoming generation.

[Delphinus]

15. Am I worried?

Yes I am. I work for a nonprofit organization and we rely upon what people share.

It was an interesting program with Soros - I won't mind if capitalism is replaced with something else.

[alarimer]

21. I worry too because I work for the state.

My job is heavily dependent on the excise taxes from fishing equipment and motor boat fuels and with sales of those things down, it is likely some of us will lose our jobs. I hate business and corporations, which is why I refuse to work in the private sector. I don't know what I will do.

[El Pinko]

16. The thing that worries me is that the govenment keeps trying to prevent the inevitable

I think that everything they do to stave off depression will only delay it slightly at best, and will result in more currency debasement and poverty for the majority.

Keynesian policy would be the best way to help ameliorate the suffering until things start to get better, but the fact is that there are business cycles, and it is only natural that a massive debt binge will require a massive adjustment for economies to ever recover.

I'm not a "free market" evangelist, but I do believe that the business cycle is a lot like the workings of nature, far too big and complex for humans to ever truly control.

We should stop with all the "bailouts" (which I think are feeding the panic), step back and let things take their course, then use New Deal and Keynesian-type policies to the degree that we can to try and rebuild things.

Oh, and we REALLY need to get away from the model based on paying everyone chump change then telling them to BORROW, BORROW, BORROW and CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME.

[Stardust]

17. You're damned right I'm worried. I didn't have enough saved for

retirement to begin with, now it's down to pitiable levels. If there was ever a need for sleeping meds, it's now.

Your words really touched my heart. I feel like you, too, that Barack Obama just might be the compassionate intellect he purports to be and will not devolve into a right-leaning pseudo-liberal. He'd got a very tough road 'a hoe. I'm dreading even IF he wins. I've seen so many of the good ones taken down. Out country does not reward out kindest leaders.

I definitely need to read "Dreams of My Father." I could really use some inspiration now.

Sorry, but I don't believe Paulson, Bernanke, Greenspan, and especially GWB know WTF to do to stanch this flow of lost capital. They're probably a hell of a lot more concerned with ensuring that their own personal investments are liquid and getting the hell out of the market themselves.

Screw the underclass.

[Rancid Crabtree]

18. Worried.

Winter's coming and winter is always hard on my pocketbook, regardless of what the "markets" are doing. All we have to do in life is die, and live till. If each one of us does the best they can, it'll all come out on wash day. I wouldn't worry about what the bigots and haters say or do...from the look of things, the Democratic Party will control Congress and President Obama can walk out onto the lawn by the rose garden and tell everyone to chill out...we've had other financial woes and worked through them...we will do so again.

[brazos121200]

19. It does seem more and more like the powers that be don't

really have a clue how to prevent another major depression. Before, in any economic setback, they would pull out a clever program or stimulant package, and all would be well for awhile. This time, everything they attempt seems to be futile, and that's what worries me most.

I keep getting the feeling that we are all being held hostage by the big rollers in our society. If there is an economic collapse, WE will be the ones to suffer the most. WE will lose our jobs first, WE will get hurt by the credit crunch, WE will have to scramble even harder to survive. The fat cats at AIG, and all the big CEO's will continue to live high on the hog, with very little change in their lifestyles.

All this makes me want to be sure that our government is working for US, not just the richest 10% of the population. That's why it's so crucial to have an Obama victory and a filibuster-proof Congress.

[fishnfla]

20. Read chapter 5 of the Grapes of Wrath

the monster

[nichomachus]

23. It could be very painful

We were on a drunken consumption binge for a long time and the hangover is going to be a doozy.

When you have two people living in a 4,000 sq ft home, driving two gas guzzlers and a sports car for a "toy," along with a boat, two wave runners, and an RV -- you've got overconsumption.

I know not everyone lives like that, but plenty do -- and that's going to come to an end.

Even many people who think they live simply, really don't. People in countries outside the US live in much smaller homes than the average American. This is why Americans are horrified when they go to Europe and see the size of hotel rooms or apartments.

The suburban sprawl model of development was unsustainable, something we've been warned about for a long time. When people are driving an hour or more each way to get to work, something is wrong.

During the oil crisis in the '70s, I lived about a half mile from my office. There were three movie theaters, two supermarkets, numerous drug stores, clothing stores, etc. within a few minutes walk. So, yes, gasoline was hard to get, but I could live very well without it. Today, I need a car just to buy a loaf of bread.


Our food travels thousands of miles to get to us, rather than being grown locally. Just a few miles from my house, there are huge vineyards growing table grapes. We don't see any of them. They are shipped god knows where. We get grapes flown in from Chile. What a freaking waste. In a few minutes I can drive to huge agricultural fields growing all sorts of things. None of that produce is sold locally. It's idiotic.

But, we need to deal with it one day at a time -- trying to figure out what's going to happen next month, never mind next year, can drive you crazy.

[melody]

30. The average American can't afford a 4000 square foot home

I live in a paid-for home smaller than all my European friends. I have one paid-for car, no boats, no RVs, etc. I know very few people who have those things you've mentioned and I know a lot of well-off people (I'm from LA).

[femrap]

24. I've seen this coming for a long time....

the neocons want to bring in fascism, an Ameritina, if you will. There will be a small, extremely wealthy class and a huge class of poor. The middle class will be gone.

W is a vile, evil being...an anti-Christ...a sociopath who enjoys inflicting pain on others. Why the Dems didn't impeach him, I'll never know. But that was a huge mistake.

I hope we have an election. I fear an 'October Surprise.'

Get lots of canned goods, candles, flashlight, batteries, etc. Plan for hurricane/earthquake...instead this will be a financial tsunami. These rich white boys don't have a clue how to fix this mess. IMHO, rich white boys shouldn't be allowed to handle anything more than $10,000.00. I've worked with them and they are nothing but sharks...throw away other people's money and hide theirs. They create nothing but fear and greed. They make me sick.

Unfortunately, Obama has taken HUGE contributions from Wall Street so my expectations are realistic.

Stop worrying and prepare. W, Bernanke and Paulson are your enemies and the only plan they have for you is poverty and death. These rich white boys are evil beyond your wildest dreams. Face it...and prepare.

And if Obama, if elected, puts Rubin on his staff, this is a horrible sign.

[melody]

32. Yeah and my father assured me Nelson Rockefeller would become US Emperor

The Bushes are definitely fascists ... they're definitely deeply ingrained in the system ... but there are more people working against them. The soldiers are many, the commanders are few. The soldiers have much more power by virtue of simple numerical supremacy.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. The ripple effect is yet to start.

Bob the architect puts off getting a new refrigerator because he might lose his job. Al, the plumber doesn't get Bob's order. Joe the guy who makes refrigerator parts doesn't get an order for parts because refrigerators aren't selling. Tom, the trucker, doesn't get an order to deliver refrigerators.

All of them get laid off, including Bob the architect, because Al, and Bob, and Joe, and Tom, are all out of work and are certainly not going to buy new houses to put refrigerators in.

It's gonna get very ugly.

[IDemo]

27. House - paid off three years ago; cars - paid cash 15 years ago; worried? - yes

- I'm sitting on the bubble where I work, and the only other big hi-tech employer in town just announced a big layoff. Plus, there is not a big demand in my field with manufacturing jobs streaming offshore or simply disappearing altogether. I've also passed the mid century mark, so that doesn't make it any easier.

- Even if I retain my job, they just announced there will be no more co-pay on benefits (I'm a diabetic and rely heavily on the prescription plan).

That said, I know we are in better shape than many people.

[northernlights]

28. yes, I'm worried

I was on track for retirement when my career crashed post-911. I've been out of work most of the last 6 years. I'm halfway through school for medical lab and the last of my retirement fund is nearly gone, so I'm dependent on school loans to survive and finish. BUT, when I called the financial aid office to find out protocol for supplementing my stafford loans with private, they coughed up a little more in the stafford.

My backup, backup, backup, backup plan to sell my little farmhouse and downsize my location depends on my actually being able to sell my home. The event was sad before; now I'm afraid I *won't* be able to sell. BUT, I just last week I saw 2 "for sale" signs replaced with "sold."

As if that weren't bad enough, I live in the middle of redneckville, so am surrounded by people who hate me. I gave up trying to be nice to them long ago, and just keep totally to myself. So I can't turn to my neighbors and am thinking I may need to get training and get a gun for my own protection.

I have no family. Or rather, my family was dysfunctional, physically and mentally abusive and I was supposed to be an illegal abortion. They used to take off for weekends and leave me locked out in the street when I was 14. So I have no family I can turn to.

Anyway, I keep trying to prepare as if I were preparing for a storm. I think I can get through this winter. By spring, if not sooner, I'll be flat broke. I'm worried about me, but mostly I'm worried about my critters. My old car is way too small for us to all cram into...

[Poseidan]

29. not worried

This is a lesson the world needed to learn. The entire system is upside down. An economy driven by spending, rather than saving... it is like adding wealth by subtracting it. In the end, credit drives everything. When credit fails, everything fails. It is obviously an economy not driven by laws of nature.

The 'conservative' way of doing things, which is 100% un-American, puts all the money in the hands of only a few people (like a dictatorship or a monarchy). Evil aside, no one is perfect. If one of the few make a mistake, everyone suffers.

[EFerrari]

31. My whole family is worried.

I've stopped watching the news. It's just too overwhelming.

[Stellabella]

33. I'm worried too, but please take care of yourself.

In times of stress, we all have to be careful to eat right, get some exercise, and sleep enough. Making yourself sick with worry is only going to make everything worse.

[roamer65]

34. The new system will be known as "managed capitalism", aka European socialism.

[dysfunctional press]

35. not too much at all...

small mortgage, wife has a steady job, i have social security disability, no kids, and we stand to inherit a house free-and-clear and around 300k in cash/t-bills in the next 6-8 months.

[ailsagirl]

36. I trust Suze Orman-- here is her take

=snip=

If you are thinking that it is the end of the world as you know it, cheer up, there is life after credit cards and home equity loans. What you need to understand is that the cost of saving for an item delayed gratification. Meanwhile, the cost of buying an item on credit can mean you are paying for the item long after it is used up and gone.


http://www.xomba.com/suze_orman_s_take_financial_crisis

[Kartius]

37. I have reached the stage of acceptance

The economy may already have died while our brilliant Washington elites squabbled over another 150 billion dollars in pork. Nothing left to do except plan for the coming catastrophe. Listen to the advice of a previous poster and buy canned goods, water, batteries, and flashlights. Sadly the show is over. The lights are off, the curtain's down, and the actors have long left the stage. All that's left is to walk out the dead theater to find a cold miserable winter.