Is the current economic crisis a contrivance?

[BuyingThyme]

[Zynx]

1. Anyone who thinks this is fake is insane.

Literally. Seek help.

[On the Road]

3. All Those Millionaires

driving their businesses into bankruptcy and losing their jobs and portfolios just to get crumbs from the government. Makes perfect sense.

[Usrename]

18. People make money when the market goes down.

Lots of money.

[On the Road]

25. Is That What's Happening Here?

Are the people at the top of the financial ladder making out well? No -- a few speculators are doing OK. The rest are losing big.

[Usrename]

32. There's an interesting book you should read.

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

[On the Road]

33. I've Heard Her Discuss This on the Radio

My point was that when the South Korean suffered a crash, it wasn't the South Koreans who engineered it. I have no doubt that large companies are opportunistic during crises. That is not showing that they caused them. Who are these powerful outside agents who are manipulating the Wall Street masters of the universe and the Goldman-trained Treasury Secretary?

[Zynx]

26. Not as much as they lose.

[BuyingThyme]

8. A CONTRIVANCE is a scheme, or the result of a scheme.

[Zynx]

27. Okay. Explain the scheme.

THe burden is overwhelmingly on you.

[BuyingThyme]

28. I didn't say there was a scheme.

So I guess the burden is overwhelmingly on you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. What he said

[phantom power]

2. No, it's real...

in fact, the crisis is essentially the discovery that huge chunks of "money" that people claimed they had were nothing but bad paper.

So, really it's the discovery of a massive contrivance.

[Usrename]

17. Exactly, a real contrivance.

It has little to do with what they are trying to blame it on, either.

[The Magistrate]

4. Not Only No, Sir, But Fuck No

"The other day upon the stair, I met a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today. Oh! How I wish he'd go away!"

[BuyingThyme]

9. What is that supposed to mean?

[fed_up_mother]

5. Not in the sense that it's an immediate contrivance

However, I think the Straussian neo-cons would do anything to destroy the "welfare state," and start over. Too bad their candidate isn't winning. This could be part of a long term plan.

[baldguy]

6. The housing bubble is just that - a bubble.

With the mortgage collapse, the bubble burst. Home values will eventually stabalize -in 6 or 7 years - and the market will survive after $200-300 billion disappear.

[kurt_cagle]

7. Shooting yourself in the foot

I frankly cannot imagine that many people would have anything to gain by deliberately wiping out the banking sector, causing widespread unemployment and social unrest and otherwise causing the economy to collapse. This is a structural change, one that I think was made deliberately worse by policies that tried to push this off to the next administration (and failed) but the underlying fundamentals of the economy were far from sound to begin with (to paraphrase McCain's recent gaffe).

[bemildred]

10. I think "An unintended consquence of fatuous policies and belief systems"

is a better description. This is global. People with lots of money have it invested. Lots of them are losing their shirts. You should not infer from the notion that some will do well out of this that it was intended.

[The Magistrate]

14. In A Nut-Shell, My Friend....

[bemildred]

15. My regards to you Sir.

I hope all is well.

[The Magistrate]

16. Well, My Friend, I Could Complain, But Why Bother? Smacks Of Effort, That....

My best to you and yours.

[Two Americas]

21. true

But domination by corporations is global and affects a lot of people, too, and while there is no grand conspiracy, no elite pulling the strings behind the scene, nevertheless it is not merely an act of nature, it is not devoid of any element of intentional planning nor is it merely an unfortunate accident.

Also, I think there can be no doubt that wealthy people will be much less affected and hurt by this than poor people and working people are - in general.

[bemildred]

24. OK.

I'm OK with all of that. It's the notion that it's done deliberately so as to buy everything up cheap that I object to.

This very predictable and very predicted crash has the potential to be politically very destabilizing, and when you consider yourself to be rightly the Grand Poobah of the Universe, as the US ruling elites generally do, you consider that political change is a very bad thing. In many ways, at the top, political control is MUCH more important than money.

[Two Americas]

31. not sure

Many think that power is the goal, and analyze the actions of the administration in light of that assumption. I think loot is the goal = control over resources and amassing of wealth. That is not as sexy and exciting, not as good for a Hollywood thriller screenplay, but nevertheless it is an explanation that fits the facts much better.

[Barack_America]

12. In what respect, Charlie?

[blindpig]

13. It's part and parcel of capitalist economy.

It ain't nothing special, it's inevitable.

The rich can ride a business cycle out, most of us can't.

[Two Americas]

19. neither

There are elements of both, and I think the people arguing about this are talking past each other.

[Sebastian Doyle]

20. It's both

It's real, but it's the direct result of Bush Crime Family contrivances. As was the first Great Depression.

[Two Americas]

22. yes

I said "neither" but "both" is better.

[HubertHeaver]

23. I think it may have started out as contrivance but

the contrivers lost control of the "house of cards". There is money to be made in volatile markets. There are enough greedy bastards who are big enough and amoral enough to muscle the market around to create that volatility. However, they are not big enough to control a world-wide crisis.

It was said during the Nixon/Ford administration the world economic system was nothing more than a daisy-chain of bad loans. The Nixon-induced oil crisis nearly brought the economic system down then. Disaster was averted but the underlying weaknesses were never addressed.

[BeFree]

29. If not a contrivance...

...then is an accident? An accident like WMD in Iraq, maybe? Or how 'bout the accident of 9-11? Or the accidental acceptance of the electronic voting machines?

One would have to have a great level of trust to believe that this was all just accidental. Especially since 700B was laid on the table.

[DailyGrind51]

30. No, it is the consequence of the stupidity and greed of people who

really thought that their gravy train would go on forever!