We're at 8598, -659.96, -7.13%. How do you feel?

[Occam Bandage]

[Occam Bandage]

1. kick

[stray cat]

2. Worried about my parents livlihood knowing we kids can't help them out

They have saccrified for years to build up a retirement fund and now when they need to retire they have lost half of their funds. Thank goodness they almost own their own house

Worried about whether my career will remain viable - its all I know.

[Justyce]

13. Ditto on both of those. Worried about my parents,

my child who will be an adult soon enough & what the future will be like for her starting out, and my entire field is being sent overseas FAST. It's freakin' scary right now.

[stray cat]

18. Best wishes for you and your family - lets hope this doesn't keep heading south at this rate

[LSparkle]

3. Fearful for my retired mother ... but not for my own future

It'll come back in time for me, but she's living off
her investments now ...

[BootinUp]

4. I am getting concerned about the US role

in the future. It seems likely that foreign investment in the US will be severely affected now for years.

[hay rick]

77. Nevermind investment.

Who's going to buy our debt?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

5. i feel very sad more than anything, and scared for all the people I know

and love who are losing years and years of savings, and my parents, their retirement $, and i could just sob... while AIG parties at the RITZ and Wachovia takes a f#$*#%& cruise

[Moody]

14. I am sad too. I think we will be fine, but my retired parents nest egg? Nt

[AlCzervik]

6. really worried and scared to be honest. I don't panic generally but i'm feeling

incredibly insecure.

[Javaman]

7. other: sick to my stomach.

I'm worried about my mom.

[Moody]

17. sick too. I keep agreeing with you all as I get wave of the different emotions.

[Democrats_win]

8. Fearful. This needs to stop. Shouldn't they stop trading?

[Common Sense Party]

26. We haven't hit a "circuit breaker" point drop yet.

http://www.nyse.com/press/circuit_breakers.html



NYSE Circuit Breakers
In response to the market breaks in October 1987 and October 1989 the New York Stock Exchange instituted circuit breakers to reduce volatility and promote investor confidence. By implementing a pause in trading, investors are given time to assimilate incoming information and the ability to make informed choices during periods of high market volatility.

Rule 80B
Effective April 15, 1998 the SEC approved amendments to Rule 80B (Trading Halts Due to Extraordinary Market Volatility) which revised the halt provisions and the circuit-breaker levels. The trigger levels for a market-wide trading halt were set at 10%, 20% and 30% of the DJIA, calculated at the beginning of each calendar quarter, using the average closing value of the DJIA for the prior month, thereby establishing specific point values for the quarter. Each trigger value is rounded to the nearest 50 points.

The halt for a 10% decline would be one hour if it occurred before 2 p.m., and for 30 minutes if it occurred between 2 and 2:30, but would not halt trading at all after 2:30. The halt for a 20% decline would be two hours if it occurred before 1 p.m., and between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m. for one hour, and close the market for the rest of the day after 2 p.m. If the market declined by 30%, at any time, trading would be halted for the remainder of the day.

Under the previous Rule 80B trigger points (in effect since October 19, 1988) for a market-wide trading halt, a decline of 350 points in the DJIA would halt trading for 30 minutes and a drop of 550 points one hour. These trigger points were hit only once on October 27, 1997, when the DJIA was down 350 at 2:35 p.m. and 550 at 3:30, shutting the market for the remainder of the day.

[TahitiNut]

68. Question: Should they also halt trades when the market RISES too fast??

I've watched the markets since I was first a teen-ager in the 50s. It was a curiosity. Some friends of the family would 'dabble' in the American Exchange (considered the "working man's" market since the NYSE was too rich for their blood).

I've found CNBC, in particular, to be fascinating. The talking heads and reporters are like Pavlov's dogs ... simplistically wired to 'cheer' when the market goes up and mourn when it goes down. The old-time 'fundamental analysts' are relegated to anecdotal status and the 'technical analysts' (who study the herd behavior) rule the roost.

It's like watching astrologers discuss the weather. It's insane. Even worse, it's become like having astrologers program the navigation systems on the space shuttle. (Talk about idiocy!)

What's most disturbing is the theme of "up is good" ... when, in fact, it's more like lifting your infant by the neck and calling it 'growth.' The FACT of the matter is that the stock market has been more meringue than pie for years and years. The basic VALUE of a share of ownership has not been there in decades and it has led to union-busting, trafficking in cheap labor, off-shoring, 'casual overtime,' and a whole host of abuses of labor AND accounting.

If I were to point to ONE basic societal problem with the market, it's that. The brainless, lemming-like assholes who mindlessly and corruptly pretend that any increase in the stock market is 'good.'

It's not.

Whatever goes around comes around. I've been absolutely CERTAIN that we'd have a second crash since the Millennial Adjustment wasn't good enough.

As a 'fan' of RATIONAL prices that match VALUES and someone who thinks the corruption of the market has been a big part of what's destroyed labor in this country, I'm welcoming this correction. It's been a long time coming. Better sooner than later.

[pitohui]

86. if you welcome this correction you are just cruel

there is no other word for it

what did some guy whose only crime was to be a soldier in ww2 and then work hard all his life every do to you? the rich are not getting hurt by this, it's the average guy who needs a retirement fund

and we younger people NEED our folks to have that retirement fund because modern wages are not sufficient for us to be able to afford to support our aging parents, nursing home INSURANCE not an actual nursing home stay but just the INSURANCE can be more than our entire after-tax income

if the stock market was just a gambling game as it was in the 50s, who would care, but it's people's only hope of a decent retirement now -- conservative investments haven't kept up to inflation for years -- and today there's another rate cut on top of rate cuts

what do you do?

[TahitiNut]

102. Anyone who got conned into believing the stock market was their salvation ...

... is merely harvesting the folly of that belief. Has it been a HUGE con game? Ubetcha! Are there victims? Ubetcha! But it's NOT about falling market prices ... when the VALUES have NOT supported those prices. Period!

It's not called "Greater Fool Theory" for nothing.

The MOST TOTALLY FUCKING INSANE proposal of recent years has been the one to put Social Security into the market.

The market is currently ruled by speculation and exploitation ... NOT by people putting capital INTO industry!

Less than 1% of the dollar value of trades in the market EVER go to compensating labor or buying property, plant and equipment. It goes to people who found a Fool willing to buy for more and give them a profit where there was no underlying value.

Inflation.

[gravity]

9. Now is the time to buy

If it opens up down tomorrow, I will go all in

[Mojorabbit]

16. I just watched about 15 years

of investing for my retirement go down the drain. I don't think we have hit bottom yet.

[BootinUp]

19. Not that I have much to lose

but I have been buying back into a 25 to 30 year mutual fund after each big drop. I think the concern now is that shareholders of banks will be affected if the government buys preferred stock to pump capital into them. So the financial sector took a big hit again.

[gravity]

28. They ended the ban on short selling on financials last night

[Marsala]

41. Not a good idea

Wait a week. At least wait for the market to stop going down every day. In the worst case scenario, it could take a decade for the market to break 10,000 again. (This is just my totally uninformed opinion, of course.)

[gravity]

46. It is a better time to buy than the past 5 years

We are near the bottom right now. I could be wrong, but I don't see the market going down much more. As long as Americans wake up to go to work everyday and pay taxes, we will get through this mess.

[Selatius]

63. If you want to go long, you risk getting your arm cut off. You are better off going short.

I have watched every bargain hunter for the last two weeks buy in thinking the floor was hit, and every time they went in, they found their way into the wood chipper instead. The only people who are making money now are the people who are going short, not the people who are going long. You only go long when the floor is hit but never ever before.

Quarter 3 numbers are going to come out soon, and I'm betting they will be bad. That will send the Dow down even further. My money is on it.

[TahitiNut]

73. The people making wise moves are the fundmental analysts.

Warren Buffet, for example, doesn't rely on 'technical analysts' (favorites of day-traders) to guide his investments. He looks for value! When the price reflects long-term value of the enterprise then it's wise to buy. Speculators that aren't interested in the underlying health of the enterprise (fair labor compensation, skilled and experienced workers, management with operational skills, etc.) can go fuck themselves, imho.

[Selatius]

74. Sure, you can do it that way, but if you're trying to curb losses quickly, you go short.

Going short is what investors will do to protect long positions that could be battered in the short-term. Some people will short for shorting's sake, like when Soros broke the Bank of England by betting the Pound would go down in the future. He was right. He didn't do it to protect any long positions. He simply did it because he thought he could make money. He did and walked away with over a billion dollars.

[gravity]

78. then you risk getting squeezed

This market can turn around violently. Short have not been making a lot of money in this market either.

[Selatius]

80. Shorts haven't been making money? Where were you this morning when the Dow opened? nt

[gravity]

81. They probably made a lot today

but in general, many shorts are having a hard time too because they are getting squeezed out of lots of positions in this violent market. Things can turn around real quick. That is all I am saying.

We will see how the market goes in the future.

[gravity]

75. Exactly

There are many great well run companies at insanely cheap prices out there. Some companies deserve to be sold off, but others are being punished in the panic for no good reason other than fear.

Things could go up or down in the short run, but the value of these stocks will be realized by the market in the long run. This is how Warren Buffet made his money fair and honest, and he is probably buying all he can right now.

[Selatius]

82. And I'm TELLING you the floor hasn't been hit yet.

If you're in for quick bucks, you obviously aren't going to do the same thing that somebody who is investing for the future would behave. I tell people to avoid the mad dashes and simply invest for retirement. That means most of them will go for long positions in stocks with companies that have strong fundamentals. That's great for the vast majority of people, including myself, but there are some who aren't satisfied with that. They want to make even more money regardless of the situation. They are the ones who are more likely to short in a downslide, and typically they do, and that's what a shitload did this morning.

You want to buy in? Then you wait for Q3 numbers to come out.

[gravity]

95. How do you know it hasn't been hit?

There is money to be made going short, but it ain't easy to pull off. The best you can do is take calculated risks trading.

On a valuation basis, I think it is insane shorting the market. There is a lot of money on the sidelines waiting to get in, and many shorts who will be covering their positions.

[Selatius]

97. Because I'm fairly certain Q3 numbers will send the Dow down even further.

I don't expect good news from them at all.

[gravity]

100. True but there are going to be some stocks that beat expectations

which are now extremely low. Choose your places wisely.

[Selatius]

105. Yeah, that I agree with. The only problem is I think people aren't trading rationally anymore.

They're slamming good companies along with bad right now.

[Geek_Girl]

107. Can you recommend any stocks that look like a good value?

nt

[sendero]

108. They may be well run etc.etc. etc...

.. but it's hard to make money when the engine of your profit, the consumer, is hunkered down.

If you think we are anywhere near a bottom all I can say is "sold to you".

[Selatius]

59. Nope. Only if you short-sell could you make a quick profit right now.

Watch the futures and see where they go. If the futures are -100 or lower, get ready to go in and short.

[DevonRex]

10. 8579.19 and I'm sick. What the hell do you switch your retirement

account to? There are just no good options out there right now.

[Moody]

11. confused. I can't wrap my mind around what exactly this means for our family. nt

[amdezurik]

12. the use of artificial materials for shoes

is going to haunt us, not even that source of food will be available to us this time...

[femmedem]

15. Fearful. Our biggest customers are universities.

And our second biggest are churches. (My husband builds harpsichords.) Their endowments don't have any room for harpsichords anymore. I'd be surprised if we make a single sale in the next year.

[Fresh_Start]

20. worried

we're already supporting my senior citizen mom and my unemployed 20-something son.
I've already realized that there is no early retirement for me our my husband.
We were happy last year about our progress on the college fund for our 12-year old: not true any longer.

If we need to help our daughter and her husband again....
or my father-in-law who's already made boneheaded investment choices...
it will get very grim.

[TexasObserver]

21. "I told you so."

How many times the past month have I asked people here to get out of the equities before the DOW collapsed below 9K? How many times did they tell me they were buying bargains at 10.2K?

[Occam Bandage]

22. "Smug" is 20%, but none have posted in the comments. nt

[Occam Bandage]

23. Speak of the devil...

[TexasObserver]

24. Your apology is accepted.

[anigbrowl]

34. You can put me down with the 'I told you so crowd', although...

since I have not been posting on DU all that time, I don't mean to celebrate my predictive power. Or celebrate anything, sicne I don't have money to benefit from my hunch...on the plus side, I don't have any significant debts either. Whew.

[TexasObserver]

50. Yeah, you told me the bailout bill would lower the LIBOR rate, and it hasn't.

You said the bailout bill passage would alleviate the liquidity crisis, and it didn't.

[anigbrowl]

I said that's its purpose, and I also said it would take several weeks, minimum.

Go misquote someone else.

[TexasObserver]

93. You argued with me at length, so certain the LIBOR would drop immediately.

Don't you recall when you told me the LIBOR would come down immediately, helping immensely the liquidity situation?

You're getting one of those faulty memories emblematic as those who can't admit they were wrong.

[anigbrowl]

113. I said it needs to come down immediately, not that it would.

I think you're making stuff up...but by all means link to a thread where I said that, and I'll be happy to admit my memory is faulty.

[TheWatcher]

115. delete.

Not even worth it.

[Birthmark]

25. I feel sorry for my fellow Americans.

Good luck to all of you.

[NorCalDem]

27. I'm saddened and fearful for my mother...

who will be retiring in the next few years. She is losing money like her 401k is a sieve, and currently I'm a broke graduate student with little job prospects (cause the economy is tanking) and will be unable to support her if she loses all her savings. She's a school teacher, and the sad part is that much of her savings that she is losing now was passed down to her by her parents (my grandparents, obviously) and they saved for years and years and years.

They had grown up in the great depression and knew how to scrimp and save and make every penny last. My grandmother was on the cheese line at Kraft, and my pap was an electrician. Think about that for a second. 70+ years of good old fashioned hardwork (electrician, cheese line, schoolteacher) to scrimp and save for my mom's retirement, and it's all gone if a few months....

Oh well, at least AIG was able to afford that $440,000 party for their "top performing executives" who are considered "top performers" because they enriched themselves nicely while breaking the backbone of the company...

That being said, I voted "I told you so" cause when I moved to Berkeley CA in 2001 for graduate school (shortly after W. got elected) I said i wanted to be here for the next "60's generation" and to fight the good fight. Secretly i've been hoping the 2nd American Revolution for almost 8 years now, and many of the things I have said since moving out here have either come true or are in the process of coming true (My fiance thinks it's scary that I predicted so much of this cause the worst of my "predictions" have yet to come to pass. Of course I don't tell her that they are not "predictions" as much as just educated observations of what is going on around us followed to their logical conclusion).

[endarkenment]

29. I feel used and abused.

This is total bullshit.

[Chorophyll]

30. Fearful. Not panicked,

because panic only makes things worse. Just fearful.

[Warpy]

31. Keep your eyes on the prize, kids

and those of you who read the Economy board had ample warning this was going to happen.

[DS1]

32. I'm about sick and tired of everyone posting the same numbers in new threads

[Redbear]

33. It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

I've lost about 45% of the value of my 401 K, but it's only money.

[KamaAina]

35. Words can barely describe it...

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[Phoonzang]

36. A mix of fearful for the future and excited about buying opportunities.

This could turn out to be a bonanza for a lot of private investors, but it could also end up being something that destroys the country/world. I don't envy Obama.

[Odin2005]

37. Fearful. I've got a horrible knot in my stomach. n/t.

[Franzia]

38. Heartbroken for my retired parents.

They worked, saved, invested, and "played by the rules" their whole lives...now this.

I hope they don't have to go back to work - that is, if they can find any.

:(

[TexasObserver]

39. Why didn't they get out when the DOW was 14k, or 13k, or 12k, or 11k, or 10k?

I do not understand why anyone who is retired or within five years of retiring stayed in the markets when the decline was clearly on the march. Why did they stay in until they were badly hurt?

I'm sorry for their loss, but why didn't they get out?

[Occam Bandage]

43. Probably because all the experts were saying "now's the time to buy" at every one of those marks.

[TexasObserver]

45. If by experts you mean the talking heads on business news, that's probably true.

But investers have to use their heads. Do they believe the guy who tries to sell them a new car at sticker price? It's the same concept. Take with a grain of salt what business experts say when they're cheerleaders, not critics.

A good investment adviser would have gotten a retired couple out of the equities long before their bundle fell by 40%. When the markets were skying was a good time to move into safer investments.

This collapse was destined to happen. The air in the economy has been there for three years, and getting bigger. Now it's escaping.

[Occam Bandage]

52. "Experts" meaning "people on television," yeah. Many don't know any better.

Yes, investors should be intelligent. Unfortunately, they aren't; most everyone who plans on retiring ends up an investor, and you can't expect that most everyone is going to be intelligent, skeptical, and wise.

Many people, rather than hire advisers, try to go it alone. They might subscribe to a popular glossy financial magazine or two; they might watch financial TV a few times a week. And if they followed the common path, they likely just lost quite a bit of money. (Disregarding all the advisers who screwed up and thought they could ride it just a bit higher, or that it was bound to turn around.)

Yes, in hindsight, those people were dumb. So is anyone who gets scammed. That doesn't mean that there now aren't quite a few good-intentioned, reasonably-intelligent people who just got suckered out of their retirement, and I don't like that, whether they should have seen it coming or not.

[TexasObserver]

53. I'm very sympathetic with retirees and those nearing retirement.

Especially those who are not really savvy about the investment world.

However, even if all they'd done is write to Suze Orman, they would have gotten some really good advice about diversifying and setting aside from risk some liquid reserves. The stock market is not a bank account, even though some people think of it as such when they read their statements.

[CountAllVotes]

54. Suze Orman is an ass

she is wrong too much of the time. I'd never take any advice from her. I've caught her errors many times.

Take it from a retired bookkeeper.

:(

[TexasObserver]

57. Suze Orman gives sound advice to people who are not wealthy.

Take it from one who has managed investments for many years.

Bookkeeping does not inform one about investments.

[CountAllVotes]

110. she doesn't know much about savings bonds

that is for sure! I heard her tell a person on there the wrong info. re: savings bonds and I think that people that are not "wealthy" buy such things. I know I do.

[TexasObserver]

111. We're going to have to agree to disagree. She gives pretty sound advice.

She understands that first one must figure out how much cash they need, near and short term, before they start making investments, and once investing, how much should be kept liquid. She understands the importance of not being in too much debt, and paying off high interest items.

She's the Dear Abby of consumer finance.

[barb162]

123. I've seen her help some truly wild spenders on TV.

This one woman was buying murals for every room of a house and the credit cards were maxed. She threw out all the kids' clothes every season and bought new ones and started every day at Starbucks. The average birthday party for her kids cost about $2000. But they had no health or life insurance.

[pitohui]

83. you have old information, most financial advisors do keep older people in equities

your information is way out of date for the modern era, for many years now financial advisors have been telling even retirees that they must keep at least some money in equities

reason -- inflation and the longer life expectancy

if you retire at 70 and could possibly live to age 95, then you will be retired for 25 years, conservative investments like cd's will lose half their real value by then to inflation and you will be destitute just when you are older and more fragile, in those years when you can no longer drive so will have to take expensive cabs everywhere for one example or just give up on having a life i guess

my dad's mom lived until her mid 90s, this is a real concern for him

[TexasObserver]

99. No, it's not. It's highly current, and accurate.

They can get out of the markets, into something safe that will throw some cash flow to them at lower returns, and get back into the markets when they have clearly bottomed out.

Unlike you, I am well paid for advising people whether to keep their millions in the stock market or some other investment vehicle, but I always appreciate the asinine advice of the ignorant and the confused.

If you read what I wrote, I clearly said the amount they should take out and move into safer vehicles for investment (such as T bills) depends on how much they need to have available to them. If they have enough to let some of their port folio ride for at least another three years, they can do so.

[Franzia]

44. They were just very trusting of the system.

My dad said he was sure the markets would turn around.

They don't read information on 'teh internets' and are very trusting of MSM.

Ouch.

[TexasObserver]

48. Most of the retirees with money in the markets are the same way.

If they can hang on, the markets will come back. It may take a year, or two, or three, but they will return to 14K and beyond.

It is possible we could see the DOW fall another 1000 points before it hits bottom, and will certainly fall another 300-500 points, so you want to think about that.

When a market starts a significant decline, investers have to ask themselves if they are in for the long haul, no matter what. If they aren't, they need to unload their stocks and buy low risk, low yield, safe paper, like T bills.

BTW, this is why we don't want to see Social Security privatized.

[pitohui]

79. my parents have CDs and bonds -- and they're screwed too

you are kidding yourself if you think only investors in the stock market are affected

my mom had money in a "safe" investment -- bonds -- FREDDIE MAC bonds, it turned out, supposedly a safe investment for old people never known to fail

my dad had money in CDs -- the return on investment is so far below the rate of inflation that he can no longer pay for basics like dental care because the price of everything has soared so far beyond what a person could afford

as for me, yes, i was an evil person and i had a stock, recommended to me in the 1990s as a safe widows and orphans stock because it paid a high dividend -- not a nasty speculators stock like ebay or yahoo

that stock was f, the ford motor company

where are they today?

as for real estate, enough said!

there are NO good options for people who committed the crime of being born at the wrong time, even "safe" investments are worthless

it is easy for young people, who have no experience and who believe crap about how the market only goes up over time, to think it's a good time to buy and all you have to do is hold on and not lose your nerve

to those young people, i have one word: general motors

next question? honest people who did everything right have just lost their retirement or at least their discretionary income in retirement

"i told you so" is useless, none of the "i told you so's" on this board have anything to brag about it or can point to any long term investment suitable for older people that is working right now

[TexasObserver]

103. If they had gotten out when the DOW was 13K, gotten T bills or CDs, they would be fine.

Clearly, they did not do that.

Perhaps if you had known anything about investment and risk, you could have helped them avoid that.

[Indenturedebtor]

40. I'm feeling very Taoist about the whole thing

I float like a leaf in the stream. So long as I have wife n puppy and food I'm past caring. My personal economy has sucked for years. I have no retirement lol.

[ShortnFiery]

42. No Fear! It's OUR TIME. Make sure we win ... channeling Biden's rally.

Damn, Joe Biden was inspirational just now.

Yes, NO FEAR!

GET UP!

[adamuu]

47. I'm okay personally because I exitted the market a few weeks ago (bought gold-related stuff). But

that's a really really small consolation
I fear for my S.O. and my family, who didn't make moves as radical as mine.
We will all suffer.

Answer: fearful for the future.

[CountAllVotes]

55. same here

who knows what to expect next? No one is the answer. :(

[pleah]

49. My hinny hurts!

I'm tired of getting screwed.

[DaveT]

51. Looking for a public outcry

This is no joke:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4203618


It is not just the Dow, it is happening all over the world. The global economy will just grind to a halt unless this panic ends. It could end on its own. Any body wanna bet the rest of your life in penury on that?

We all pretty much feel like we have no choice but to go along for the ride.


The question that is driving me nuts -- why do we all assume we are so helpless?

[Burma Jones]

56. I feel as affluent as I did back in 2003

We live well within our means, even below probably. Even with the recent plunge in house prices, we have about 60% equity in our house. We own a Toyota and a Kia. We pay our Credit Card off every month. We're very fortunate and my wife and I were raised in Upper Middle Class bastions (me, Montgomery County, MD and my wife, Westchester County, NY) and were well educated and raised by our parents to do well and do good. We are liberal in our politics and conservative in our spending.

The rules have to change......NOW!!!!!!

We lived for a few years in Westchester County and I met a lot of people for whom five million dollars was not a lot of money. Five Million should be enough, I mean really......

[GreenPartyVoter]

58. Pissed. Like things weren't hard enough for lower income families before

[tom_paine]

60. Not smugly but we "tinfoil hatters" tried to tell you.

Try ANGRILY. Not just at your shortsighted ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills, but that you are so arrogantly ignorant, and will likely continue to be so no matter how often you are shown. Denial is one of the strongest human drives. The denial of a Smug Arrogantly Ignorant Coincidence Theorist like yourself, is tenfold THAT.

And now, when we "tinfoil hatters" have been right for, oh about the FIFTIETH time in a row, you smug over-complacent coincidence theorists project yourselves onto us.

Not smug...PISSED at how humanity keeps embracing your kind of arrogance and ignorance when anyone with even a smidgen of critical thinking skills can see through a Pinochet, a Bush, a Hitler, right away.

Not you, though. never you. Always the last to know, aren't you? Like now. There's a reason for that, but you are probably blinded by your ego at this point and couldn't see if you wanted to. So you just keep on being the last to know. It's what you're good at.

I don't even expect you to begin to grasp how The Bailout is quite in keeping with the actions of those leaders and all tyrants, totalitarian and otherwise, throughout history. Don't bother to try. Just hurl a smug epithet and sneer. It's all I've ever seen you be good for, and I have now seen dozens of your posts.

YOU have been the one who is smug, you projector-of-yourself-onto-others.

So, yeah, we DID tell you so, and we will tell you again that the reason all this Homeland Security is there is to taser and control YOUR and MY ASS when "the Soylent Green runs out for the day."

But no. Remember the creed of the Bullshit Coincidence Theorist, Occam Bandage.

Just because a "tinfoil-hatter conspiracy nut" has been right fifty times in a row, it makes it ever more certain that assertions #51 and on are nonsense idiot tinfoilly mealy-mouth paranoid garbage.

Isn't that right, Coincidence Theorist?

YOU'VE been the smug one, jerk. Now eat some crow as you deserve.

But remember, I'm still the crazy one and you're still the sensible one, even IF you've been wrong about EVERYTHING these past 8 years.

I'll bet you voted for Bush in 2000.

How 'bout it, Coincidence Theorist? Give me some of your smug comeback at my crazy tinfoilhatted self.

Show me what for!

[Occam Bandage]

65. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I've believed that an extended economic downturn was inevitable since about '05. I still have a Mr. Housing Bubble T-Shirt.

I don't know where conspiracy theories come into play here, nor am I quite sure what your froth is all about.

[tom_paine]

70. I know you don't. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

76. Whee!

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[baby_mouse]

119. I like this term "Coincidence Theorist".

Yes, I do.

[PaulaFarrell]

61. It's all good

Will worrying or feeling fearful help in any way at all?

Then don't. Seriously. What purpose does it serve?

On a really serious note, I have to say that I am 48, and I have never lived through a real war - you know, the kind where you really worry that a bomb may drop on your house; I have never been without food or shelter; I have never been seriously ill or unemployed for more than a few months at a t ime. At this very moment there are like 1 billion people living on less than a dollar a day, there are children literally starving to death. when I'm miserable, it helps me to remember that there are people actually suffering, physically, today right now, and it really helps to put things in perspective. We will survive this, people, and then we'll have some of those great depression stories to tell our great grandkids.

[W_HAMILTON]

64. I wish I couldn't worry.

I'm probably going to lose my health benefits. I wish my mom was not a worrier, but she's also probably going to lose her benefits. I haven't even gotten to the point of worrying how I will pay bills, after watching my hours get cut almost in half. I was planning to apply for partial unemployment, but then I read today in another DU post how the unemployment benefits in my state was drying up. I don't have much money in my retirement accounts (I'm 28 and only started funding them two years ago); I hoped to use the amount in my roth IRA to go back to school, but I'm afraid to even go and look at my balance now (it's probably been cut in half, too).

And maybe the worst part is, there is no help on the horizon. Even if Obama wins the presidency (which I'm sure he will), when he actually takes office is too far away. How many more days can we take losses like this? When will it really start to affect us on a country-wide level? It's affecting people now, but I mean really widespread, to the point where it's all we talk about, a la the Great Depression.

I wish I couldn't worry, but I'm a worrier by nature, and damn if these times aren't insanely stressing.

[PaulaFarrell]

69. worrying doesn't help

it makes you less able to deal with things. what will happen will happen. worrying doesn't affect what happens on the stock market one iota. worrying is the great useless emotion and sapper of energy.

remember what mark twain said - I've lived through a lot of terrible things in my life, some of which have actually happened

[W_HAMILTON]

71. I agree.

But it's just in some people's natures. My psychologist says the same sort of things, but it's hard not to worry, ESPECIALLY in times like these. I would imagine that even the easiest-going person would be having a nervous breakdown by now. Oddly enough, I guess I can find refuge in the news shows, where Chris Matthews apparently spent the first half of his show talking to Buchanan and someone else about the stupid "terrorist" angle again. Are you kidding me? The DOW is in freefall and you are talking about that crap? How could anyone care about that at a time like this?

[Thickasabrick]

106. Awesome post - I needed that - thanks

:hi:

[W_HAMILTON]

62. VOTE THEM OUT.

There should not be one Republican left in office. Damn them all. Those stupid bastards did this to the country, hell, to the WORLD. Damn them for screwing over the little guy in an effort to kiss big business's ass. This is all on their hands. I know they will try to blame the Democrats (they've controlled Congress for the last two years!) but it takes half-a-brain to realize that the moron in the White House would veto anything that doesn't go along with his agenda.

I wish we could have some order to move the election up, or move the inaguaration date up. This country can't take many more days of this. The DOW won't even exist with many more 500 and 700 point drops every day.

Where is the bottom? What are they doing that will create a bottom? Everything they are doing, has done nothing to help this situation. We are screwed. My hours have been cut and I will probably be losing my insurance, and my mother has had her hours drop and she is stressed out now because she will probably be losing her insurance, too. Fuck the Republicans, and fuck their stupid CEO buddies that helped cause all of this.

It's time THEY PAY for screwing us all over.

[leeroysphitz]

66. I do not understand the question. n/t

[Hubert Flottz]

67. Other...

Screwn

[mainegreen]

72. Other: going to ignore it and proceed as normal.

I'm young, and so far, my job appears very secure.
My wife really doesn't work, so if we truly needed the extra income, she could go back into the workforce.
Own no house, have no debt, and everyone is fully insured.

I'm lucky.

[trof]

85. 1 and 2.

I'm down 30% but there will soon be an opportunity (or more precisely 'opportunities') to recoup and THEN some.

[Gregorian]

87. Whoopsies,

I pulled five grand from my bank today. Sheepishly, I might add. Because I know that only fuels the situation. I'll be going back for more, every few days.

To be honest, I have absolutely no worries. This last twenty years was pretty much crazy growth. But what do I know?

[pitohui]

96. it's illegal to structure like that, just take it all out or don't take it all out

if you are taking it out bit by bit to avoid the reporting requirement, then you are committing the felony offense of structuring

besides it's useless anyway, when you withdrew 5K in cash, the bank didn't file a CTR on you, but they probably did go ahead and file a suspicious transaction report, to cover their own ass

take out the money you want to take out, don't play games, the chances of being prosecuted are probably small but why take a chance when you would be dead to rights if you were prosecuted? there is a paper trail at your bank and it will be pretty obvious if you are withdrawing $5K every few days!

if you are taking it out like that because your bank doesn't have much cash in that branch, you can phone them 48 hours in advance and arrange to have the cash delivered, so it will be there when you come in to withdraw -- no reason to sneak around and just take $5K every few days

[Gregorian]

112. What the hell?

Life, libery, and the perfuit of happiness MY ASS.



I've never heard of such a thing. What a dumb law. I can take it all out, but I can't take it piecemeal? Wow.


Thanks for the heads up.


It almost doesn't matter, I'm already involved in a lawsuit (peripherally, but enough to pay an attorney a ton of money, as well as being a money sprinkler for botanists, geotechnical engineers, etc., etc. So I won't have much cash very long anyways. I just want enough to finish (translation-START) building my house.

Phew. There. I got that all out. :)

[hay rick]

88. Fear is healthy.

If you're not feeling A LITTLE BIT OF FEAR you aren't paying attention. I've had the experience of living in poverty and it's not something I wish to repeat.

[BlooInBloo]

89. Like my 401k has lost 18% of its value this year. Meh.

[workinclasszero]

90. I feel like the Great Depression 2 is starting

Both 1 and 2 brought to us by thieving lying, capitalist pig republicans. It took WW2 to get us out of the first one.

God knows how we will ever escape this one.

[guitar man]

91. It's the end of the world as we know it

and I feel fine.


:sarcasm:

[dysfunctional press]

92. hungry, mostly...i didn't have any lunch.

maybe i'll make a snack.

[tomreedtoon]

94. We individuals are screwed. But not our country.

Even though I may only have the clothes on my back, I'll vote for Obama. I know I'll never retire and I may lose my job, but I'm doing my best to see that this nation thrives, even if I don't.

What is all this "me, me, me" crap I'm reading in these posts? You knew this was going to be bad! Why are you whining now? Are you Republicans or something? Think about something besides your own survival for a change. I thought Democrats had higher ideals in mind than themselves. Sheesh.

[pitohui]

98. if i can never retire or enjoy the medical benefits everyone else gets, fuck this country

it may sound cold, but no, i'm tired of working my ass off for everybody else

if i get only the work and the shit and none of the benefit, then fuck it

i am a human being, not a slave, and my life should have some purpose other than being used as a doormat for somebody else

[tomreedtoon]

122. We're ALL doormats for someone else. Welcome to reality.

But at least I can try to make life better for someone else, possibly, as they kill me. Your attitude is conceited and Libertarian; "I've got mine, fuck you."

[XemaSab]

101. Wondering why I am sitting in front of the internet when I should be planting food in the yard

:P

[Geek_Girl]

104. Some where in between I told you so and

Also Looking at investment opportunities. It seems like some stocks have dropped way below their value IMHO.

[struggle4progress]

109. Cryin, "fare thee well, Titanic, fare thee well"

Jack Johnson went to get on boat
Cap'n said, "My ship don't haul no coal"
Cryin, "fare thee well, Titanic, fare thee well"

[KG]

114. Thank Gawd It Passed!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[TheWatcher]

117. Operation MindWipe.

:rofl:

[Kazak]

118. Yes?

:shrug:

[Leopolds Ghost]

120. Hmm. Where is "waiting for the other shoe to drop"???

Such as peak oil (remember how that's coming in 2012 -- around when this deep recession is considered likely to end?)

Once OPEC decreases production capacity this winter to maintain oil prices in the face of a winter Depression, you will never see production levels go back up... ever again. Just a prediction. Oil prices won't need to skyrocket, we are seeing demand-side Peak Oil -- a sharp decrease in consumption as the markets force the Western World to live within its domestic resource means -- exactly what everyone said was the best case scenario.

[earth mom]

121. I have mixed emotions. ANGER, AMAZEMENT, FEAR with a heap of I TOLD YOU SO.

I believe that the stock market is nothing more than gambling and I am PISSED that the snake oil salesmen on Wall St. sold their poison so well it's ruined innocent peoples lives.

I'm AMAZED that anyone could even look at this FUBAR train wreck and even think for one god damn moment about future opportunities! Like WTF?!

I'm AFRAID because I don't know what it all means or where it all will lead to or if my family will be living in our car in the near future.

Lastly, I want to scream I TOLD YOU SO to all the people who wanted the bailout and anyone who's ever told me that the stock market was a "good thing". :puke:

[wickerwoman]

124. Pissed.

Global economic meltdown couldn't have waited three more weeks until I had a secure job offer?

Meanwhile, those fuckers at Wachovia are taking Mediterranean cruises?

Eat the rich, folks, eat the rich!

[boppers]

125. Gamblers whine. Meh.

Look, it's a free market. It shoots up, it dives down.

Expecting it to be worthy of investment is the big sham.

Then again, vegas never seems to stop getting new suckers, so *shrug*.

[iiibbb]

126. The DOW is almost irelevant unless you're retiring in a few years.