Ok here is the bright side... yes there is one

[nadinbrzezinski]

if we don't go through the floor, 200 more to go... we may actually start to see this recover... and here is the chief thing to remember HAVE PATIENCE, it will take YEARS for this to recover

And of course this is the end of the American Empire, so feel free to remind freepers of this, and on who's watch this happened

[Subdivisions]

1. Amen to that. n/t

[AndyTiedye]

2. Which Floor Is That?

It's at 8598 now

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. it was 9000 +\- 500

so we don't have much to go

Personally they should close the exchange tomorrow

[AndyA]

3. I don't find a lot of comfort in this,

but I do think the Democrats need to SHOVE THIS FACT down the Repugs THROATS FOREVER AND EVER. Never let America forget what Republican leadership and values brought to this country and its people!

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Like that period in history... people won't forget

the RNC is dead for a generation... if not longer

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

26. I don't see that outcome for the RNC.

I am not quick to count out the "irresponsible party." Irresponsibility is a big political advantage once they are entirely out of power.

Today's pugs are well positioned on race, region and religion to make surprising come-backs, as they did after losing all role in governance in 1976-1980 and again in 1992-1994.

The Democrats had a huge advantage in the 1930s because they were the racist and unsophisticated party, and thus Republicans had little room for populist expansion.

I won't be a bit surprised if Obama is a one-termer.

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. Sitting here in Detroit, amongst the ruin of the Big 3...I'm sorry. I think not.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. It will have to be rebuilt, one myth is that we were far more industrialized

during the 1930s, we were not

It took WW II and a command economy to get there.

So we will have to reindustrialize the country and see motor city have its industry rebuilt

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. and we will not see that. Not with NAFTA. Not with the plants closing

down. Yesterday I appraised a $350,000 home that was closing in a bank sale at $130,000. I invite all people who have hope for the future of industry to come visit and have a drive down Gratiot...check out all the "for lease" signs on once thriving 2nd and 3rd tier suppliers. Detroit has died and there is no reviving its industry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Globalization as we know it is dead

this is the kind of event that leads to paradigm changes in thinking

[buzzard]

15. Both Canada and the US need to do this, I have never figured out how anyone could

believe you can have a service only economy. I try and buy Canadian made first then US but it is impossible to do we don't make anything these days.

[Billy Burnett]

16. Canada became a subsidiary of the US many decades ago.

Aside from US autos and seal pup fur, WTF is even made in Canada anymore?

[Qutzupalotl]

21. To answer your question,

watch "How It's Made" on the Science Channel. Almost all the factories they show are in Canada.

[Billy Burnett]

24. Well, you didn't answer my question.

Can you give me some examples? I don't get Disney's Science Channel.

Thanks.

:hi:

[Qutzupalotl]

32. You do now. :-)

http://science.discovery.com/fansites/howitsmade/videogallery/videogallery.html
http://www.torrentreactor.net/torrents/1021952/Discovery-Channel-How-It%27s-Made-Complete-Season-8

I wasn't trying to be flip. They make almost anything you can think of. Too numerous to list.

The show is pretty good, IMO.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. Those GM plants they showed last year?

They're closed now. As is the American Axle plant and quite a few others.

[Lance_Boyle]

5. the floor, like the cake, is a lie.

Mmmmmmmmm... floor cake... <drool>

[Oregone]

10. End of the empire, my ass

Its bred into us. We've learned since birth were the greatest country on earth. We've learned that as American's we can live better than everyone else (even at their expense). Throughout school, we've recited out pledge to our country and reinforced these values. Our sick psychology is controlled by manifest destiny; we demand the 'best' life (though few attain it), and are will to die for it (which we erroneously refer to as 'freedom'). Even if it stops America for a bit, there will be a resurgence.


The only thing that is happening is a lot of people are going to suffer while the rich sit on the side lines again. Spin it anyway you will

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. I am sure some brits said that back in '45 as well

Or in spain back in 1910

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

19. The Brits in the know said probably it in 1914

I think Britain exported the majority of the world's finished goods as late as 1900, and down to half that by WWI

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Yep... I expect this country to become quite inward looking

and FAST

Or actually be far more obvious about it

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. I'm hearing 7800 will be the bottom from my sources

I hope I'm wrong

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Hmm fibonachi moved?

possible...

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. The Fibonacci Series is big with some economic analysts

Though I don't pretend to understand how they can
apply it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. It took me three weeks of readying on it... I knew about it and the

Vetruvian Man... in art class in another life.

And it is big... very big.

My view, tomorrow they should close the market tomorrow... give them a day off or even monday off

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. It would be smart if the US and world markets did that in a consensus

But when has this government done something smart in the last 8 years?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

17. What percentage of companies do you think are trading below book?

I would guess most, meaning a deflationary spiral is priced into the market. (That "book" isn't considered book.)

If that's the case then a "mere" year-long global recession would be a net positive.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. 100% as it was the case during the crash of '29

and some victims are in the way to dying, GM... not expected to make it to '09

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

22. I don't think Helicopter Ben will allow deflation. What's your view?

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Depends... if the horse is still in the barn, it may still be time

to prevent the worst of this... (and personally I expect a deep recession at this point)

But it is not just bernacke ben.... at this point we need more than just fiscal policy from the Feds... we need signals such as fast track re-regulation as well as programs.

We need to get the banks nationalized... even if on a temp basis (happened in the 1930s under FDR) and we need them to start lending again

The longer they hold... the worst this will be

The bailout, they have the authority to take over banks... period... that should be done (IMHO mind you) during the weekend

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

30. deep recession unavoidable

At minimum this quarter has to be negative, and probably a few more quarters

[charlie]

31. Commodities are way down

Speculative investment funds are getting scorched and are pulling out. We might get a break on food, fuel, utilities in the short term.