Giuliani and Scarborough: Raising taxes on those making 250,000+ hurts small businesses

[JonLP24]

If you're making over 250,000 as a small business then you're not suffering and could probaly afford a tax increase.

[rpannier]

1. They probably think that raising taxes on those making $250,000,000

hurts small business

[Vinca]

2. I'm so sick of this hocus pocus tax theory that if you don't pay

taxes, more money winds up in the treasury coffers. The end result of the 8 year experiment should be apparent by now. Rudy should busy himself with something else. It must be about time to trade Judith in for a new model.

[WCGreen]

16. What do you mean 8 years.... More like 20 out of the last 28....

[frogcycle]

3. yeah and the earth is flat and the moon landing was faked n/t

[Double T]

4. BS. If anyone makes 250K, they're living large and can afford to pay MORE!

[mrJJ]

5. Giuliani ...Pssst... ya wanna make some money?

McCain's Pal & spokesman, Republican R. Giuliani is going to be laughing all the way to the bank with a piece of the taxpayers $700 Billion

Giuliani's law firm seeking bailout business 26 Sep 2008 In the midst of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, former Mayor Rudy Giuliani has begun drumming up business, positioning his law firm to advise corporate clients on how to profit from the government's $700 billion bailout. Bracewell & Giuliani LLP announced it has formed a corporate task force to advise "financial institutions, private investment funds, institutional investors and other market participants" on the costly package. "Our team of former government officials and experienced attorneys in the fields of legislation, enforcement and finance are equipped to guide institutions in this quickly evolving and complex environment," Giuliani said.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D93ELDE00.htm

[City Lights]

6. What a shocker! Joseph and Rudolf spreading a GOP talking point.

What would Uhmerika do without them? :eyes:

[eilen]

7. I didn't even make it to Guiliani

After Joe kept going on and on how it's "bad, bad bad" that Obama is ahead in important swing states and did his little McCain campaign speech I switched to CNN. Enough is enough.

[Uben]

8. Here's the way it works...

Republicans feel the only way to bolster the economy is to tax poor democrats. After all, they are the one's who have the money the republicans haven't got, so it only stands to reason. I should get a Nobel Prize for figgerin this out!

[magellan]

9. An individual business owner earning $250,000.00?

:rofl:

Our business doesn't bring in half that much in a year. I'd sure like to earn $250k as an owner -- that'd mean our business was bringing in millions and I'd gladly pay higher taxes.

[NI4NI]

10. BINGO!

Joe Biden made your point during the VP debate. Most "small business" owners DO NOT make $250,000 a year.
Maybe that's why they're called "Small Business".

[magellan]

12. Needless to say, the Repubs are out of touch with reality on the ground

You know where this is coming from -- the wealthy elite on the Right using their own colossal multi-million dollar payscales to define what a small business is. Ergo they see a business owner earning "only" $250k/year as hard up, when in truth they're far better off on a pure income basis than 97% of their fellow Americans.

Another thing the Repubs always fail to mention is that in general, business owners have more tax breaks available to them than regular wage-earners. For example, we can write off portions of our telephone, utilities, rent, internet, certain magazine/newspaper subscriptions and car expenses as they relate to our business. The average worker can't.

[JonLP24]

13. That reminds me

When I was doing day labor at a job site, I was to spray paint some counter tops. Given that it was a bit windy and it was blowing in the direction of the supervisor's truck I suggested he move it and he said "I don't care, that's a company truck." I was like "ooook"

[magellan]

15. Telling attitude there

We're a very small firm operating on a tight budget. If we caught one of our employees taking that attitude towards equipment just because it didn't belong to them, they'd be fired so fast they wouldn't know what hit them. And the cost of repair/cleaning would come out of their last paycheck!

[stray cat]

11. It would affect about 1.5% of the small business - Scarborogh went nuts

wondering who the lucky 1.5% were. Gibbs said those who were thriving. So Scarborough claimed Obama wanted to punish success. Scarborough is such a republican hack - he and Buchannan are a pair.

[sinkingfeeling]

14. Huh? Don't they know that business taxes and personal income taxes are two separate things? If I own

my own business and it nets $300k a year I will be paying taxes on that as a business. If I take out $250K for myself as 'CEO', then I could deduct some portion of that salary from my business' net and pay business income taxes on $50k and pay personal income tax on the $250K.

[nosillies]

17. This is exactly what I was thinking.

I have a family member who is a small business owner who makes, personally, way more than $250,000 a year. The business, obviously, pulls in much more than that.

Sure, under Obama, he'll be paying much much much more in personal income taxes. But that's personal. It's got nothing to do with the way he runs his business. What's he going to do, shut down his business just so he can make less money and spite Obama? Get real. He and his accountant might try to find a way to pay himself less salary and get income in another manner, but his personal tax situation has jack-all to do with the daily operations of his small business.

[SteelPenguin]

20. I don't understand either

I can't find specifics on this part of the plan.

My guess is that it applies to the 'business' itself regardless of incorporation status. So if you own a business, and you are an 'employee' of that business your take home pay isn't what's being talked about here, but the overall profit of the business. however if you're an indpenent contractor say, and you're paying the self-employement tax, then it would apply directly to you. So like say you're a former president of the U.S. and you make money for speaking engagements and you make more than a quarter million dollars a year for it as a self-employed speaker, then you'd pay higher taxes.

i'd love a link to specifics on the plan though and what the numbers actually are and what they apply to, if you ever find one.

[SteelPenguin]

18. Here's something I don't understand

Is that if the business is making 250k? Or the small business owner? What increase will it be? Does it only affect certain types of incorporation?

Is it different if you're s-corp, or incorporated, or just a guy working out of your basement as an independent contractor?

if it's across the board, then if you're an independent contractor making 250k you can afford a tax increase. If you're a small business owner and your business is making 250k it really matters how much the increase is, and how many employees you have, what your profit margins are etc. Still I can't imagine it'd be such a huge increase that it would doom a small business, but I'd be interested to see some actual numbers rather than just generalities bandied about. I looked on Obama's website and I can't find specifics on this.

[ProfessorGAC]

19. It's Not A Tax On Gross Receipts

And, the exact details you're looking for don't, and shouldn't exist, because you don't promote to that level of specificity until you have the probable current revenue estimates, and proposed budgets. Until those are done, it would be silly to have a specific amount of increase for well-to-do folks. It would just have to be revised later. The odds of a shot in the dark being right are awfully small.
The Professor

[SteelPenguin]

21. I trust ya Prof

Ok so since your nose is in here...I get that they can't give out specifics, but you're saying not gross receipts...

They're talking about it, so I 'm curious what you think, in general, they're talking about. Maybe not a number per se but what exactly does the 250k number apply to for small businesses?

[ProfessorGAC]

22. It Implies A Very Strong Small Business

If one is talking about a quarter million in margins, it would suggest that the gross receipts would have to be around $1.2 million and the business is operating efficiently enough to have >20% pre-tax margins. That's pretty good for a small business.

So, this tax would be applying to pretty successful SBO's. And, i seriously doubt, to speculate on your earlier question, that the tax increase would be more than a couple percent on gross profit. So, we'd be looking at around $5k in added taxes. To someone making a quarter million, that's not a whole lot to pay for the privilege of running a small business in a country with a complete business infrastructure, everywhere, all the time.
The Professor

[SteelPenguin]

23. Then couple that with the health care provisos

And those small businesses might pay more in taxes, but save a ton more in health care benefits and capital gains, so really it sounds like even they would come out ahead in the long run, or am I reading that wrong?

[ProfessorGAC]

24. Might Be Break Even

It's possible you're correct. I missed that in my reading. I'll go back.

But, even if the SBO's make out a little better, expanding the health care insurance pool actually reduces the cost of individual procedures a pinch, lowers the cost of the insurance itself, (another pinch), which means the employee contribution goes down by a fraction of a pinch.

And, a healthy populace is absolutely an economic positive. It stabilizes growth and productivity and tends to reduce lost value in the operational expenses.

So, if the SBO's get these incentives to increase health coverage, it's really a good thing for everyone, including those of us not directly affected.

At least that's what i think.
GAC

[realitythink]

25. I own a small business

I have a small retail shop (liquor store) with 7 employees. I'm lucky if I make $30,000 year. That is a big lie, most small business owners are typical middle class wage earners.