KRUGMAN is on Rachel.... WE NEED THE NATIONALIZATION OF THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM

[Ichingcarpenter]

Holy crap!

[last1standing]

1. If we're going to have to pay for it we might as well control it.

n/t

[NightWatcher]

2. by absorbing all the bad debt, we are basically doing just that

and these same people make fun of Chavez and Castro...

[KaryninMiami]

3. Can anyone explain this in more detail- I'm a bit stunned by Krugman-

someone I really admire and respect- what does this actually mean? When has this happened before and where? Anyone?

[TahitiNut]

29. He's essentially referring to Sweden's approach in dealing with their banking crisis.

:shrug:

[Ichingcarpenter]

32. Or the Norwegian approach also

Both the Norwegian crisis and the Swedish crisis brought about solutions
that the US ignored for this crisis.

[stray cat]

4. Good news - the stocks don't matter. Bad news: the credit situation is much worse than the stocks

Its bad when people tell you the fact that you have lost all your retirement is nothing compared to what is really happening.

[AntiFascist]

5. eeek, this may scare more Repugs into voting for McCain...

National Socialism versus the People's Bank of the United States.

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. I think most people didn't get your pun

I did.

[Fovea]

19. LOL!

Exactly.
Sign me up for the people's bank!

[deaniac21]

65. National Socialism????? That didn't work out too well.

[w4rma]

67. That's the point.

(National Socialism isn't socialism, but the other choice would be.)

[LaPera]

69. It's only socialism for the rich now - and the rich pounded it into our brains

almost before we were born, that socialism is bad for the poor...but they never told us how the rich have socialism and love it.

[AntiFascist]

70. What about providing a choice?

I realize that this is rather idealistic, but what about a bank run by the people and for the people, with less focus on monetary policies and more focus on real assets? They would not be allowed to play the speculative games that got us into this situation. We could still have private institutions for the businesspeople and others who want to take chances, but there would be strong regulatory barriers so that if one 'sector' gets into trouble it won't affect the other. So what if the value of the dollar nosedives? This bank's assets would be solidly "grounded" in real real-estate and national infrastructure (also civic bonds, etc) so that that total value of the bank's assets would truly reflect the value of American society.

[whistle]

6. That could work based on the U.S. Constitution which specifically says

...only the Federal Government can authorize and utter money.

The Federal Reserve and private Central Banks have taken that Constitutional power away from the Federal Government

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. If we do that my golden parachute and stuff will be threaten!

I'm a little shocked on him coming around to my way of thinking.

IF ITS TO BIG TO FAIL ....... THE GOVT. SHOULD OWN IT.

[lutherj]

9. Woo Hoo!!! Socialism! I'm so sick of this childish obsession with capitalism.

Woo hoo!

[anigbrowl]

10. More specifics, please

IS he proposing taking over all banks or something? This sounds crazy, on its face.

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. Oh, now we have the half a billion golden parachute lover pipping in

Yeah Krugman is just crazy.

[anigbrowl]

23. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Do you have more information?

[Ichingcarpenter]

27. You might want to have everyone check out the thread you wrote on

It was revealing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4180362&mesg_id=4180362

[anigbrowl]

33. So I guess you don't have an answer then

Too bad if you're sore about the other thread. So I suggested people keep their facts straight, apparently that's offensive to some and is now a 'right wing talking point'. Personally, firing off accusations with no basis in fact is exactly the sort of thing I don't like about the right wing, and I don't like seeing people do it here at DU either. You got your facts wrong (about who sits on the board of Lehman) and I make no apologies for pointing it out.

[Ichingcarpenter]

35. I'm glad you defend the Bush family and corporate parachutes

which exposed your beliefs about "making a little money"
thanks for kicking this......

Both of the Bushies were executive officers, way up in the decision making of that firm
I pointed that out in that thread too.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[depakid]

11. Now is that what he really said?

or what you wanted to hear?

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. He said it would have to be a mixed solution

the bailout didn't solve it....

[depakid]

17. Equity sharing is not the same thing as nationalization

[Ichingcarpenter]

21. He mentioned both not the solution that the democrats did

nationalization and equity sharing.

[depakid]

26. He didn't shout nationalization

and from what I saw, he was careful at a critical point to parse his words (and not get too technical) precisely because people might take his thoughts the wrong way.

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. No, I shouted it..... and took his statement and body language

and that precise statement as a shocker.

He knows it is so fuck up that the big guys need to be taken over.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. Holy crap, nothing.

Logical step at this point.

[Ichingcarpenter]

15. I think he was hinting on the big boys, the ones that are too big to fail

I agree with that plus allowing the smaller being allowed under regulation
to expand and grow

[gopbuster]

38. You mean the days of the Rockefellers, banking global elite debt slavery may be over? nt

[Fovea]

16. Wow.

The left and the right are both advocating a command economy.

I'll go with the left, thanks.

[gopbuster]

18. The first thing he said was to do it by injecting......

liquidity into the banks in return for shares.

They probably wouldn't have to do it with every institution and some will still fail,

But he did mention possible Nationalization more in the context of being a viable option because it may be THAT bad.


He also said that if Obama wins they may have to get the Obama team in directly after the election to start sorting this out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Another flashback to 1932

there are so many

Did I just fall of a time machine?

[tekisui]

20. They are doing it in Denmark and Germany,

[malaise]

24. Europeans and English-speaking Caribbean people

love social democracy. We love a mixed economy - it works better for everyone.

[Lex]

22. We paid for it now, why isn't it ours?

It ought to be.

[Winnscott]

25. I'd like to see the transcript to confirm Krugman said this

Or to see the context surrounding his alleged call for nationalization.

[endthewar]

28. Slight mischaracterization

He really said that he thinks that we'll need to go back to the drawing board soon and that we MIGHT have to nationalize the banks. He really said it as a possibility if the markets continue to tank and the credit crisis doesn't improve.

[stray cat]

31. He does think it might come to that in the next days, weeks or months

Not calling for it but afraid it may be the best answer. Says the bail out approaches it but indirectly as just accumulating a share of the bank

[JackRiddler]

34. Krugman's on Rachel and all you can think of is that?

[Ichingcarpenter]

36. Well, he's not my favorite world economist but

I do respect him and was surprised at his statement after
reading him for years.

[JackRiddler]

40. Okay, that was obviously too subtle for an utterly juvenile joke.

[anigbrowl]

43. I LOLed.

[Ichingcarpenter]

45. Thanks Jack

Your predictions over the years have proved to be a comedy too.

[JackRiddler]

55. Uh oh, are you keeping tabs?

Will these make it into the attack ads?

[Ichingcarpenter]

56. I think we are on a thing that I predicted

two years ago, but didn't see the acceleration of the process
until 2009 past the election, if they could hold it together.

Which brings up something that I didn't anticipate
happening that fast, which means they are totally out of
control except with their billions.

As we see with the gas prices right now, before the election,
we are seeing a reduction even though the refineries in Texas
are in Repair.

Now in the 2004 election, check the price of gas and oil.......
you will say that the price of gas from that summer
to the election is not equilvant to
4 years later.

Check the price of oil that time
and the price of gas...................

We are being played.

[JackRiddler]

57. Please spell it out, I'm dense.

Are you saying the gas prices dropped in the fall of 2004, and are now dropping again? That's not going to have much of an effect, when even the least informed know it's because everyone's betting on a depression.

[Ichingcarpenter]

58. The price of oil if you look at it doesn't have anything to do

with the price of gasoline.

Look at oil prices back then and now
the correlation between the three equations
oil prices, gas inventories and price.

no logical correlation that can be used today can explain
statistically, even with the price of the dollar
and gold.....

The data doesn't lie, in equations

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. No, he said that in crisis such as this one we usually see the PARTIAL

and TEMPORARY nationalization of the finance system

We SAW that during the 1930s as well

As well as oh Norway

But this is JUST temporary

[Phred42]

41. We need to Nationalize the Energy Industry even more

All of it.

[Ichingcarpenter]

42. only the big boys.... I want the start ups to get all the help they can

it really will be an issue....... WHAT HAPPENS IF EXXON FAILS?

Are they too big to fail?

[Phred42]

71. Great thought. I bet they try it.

[Waiting For Everyman]

44. It's only logical, inevitable.

[2speak]

47. Imagine a world

where everyone has to work producing or providing a service to get paid. No free loaders. Yep that would be nice.

[defendandprotect]

48. Why isn't that obvious to everyone here ...???

[defendandprotect]

49. And where did all those "pro-bail out" posters go ... ???

Any chance they're actually listening now and maybe learned something--???

[2speak]

50. Most of them went back to their wall street offices

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. For a neub that is an incredible accusation

[2speak]

63. LOL

A nueb! On this board yes, but what the hell does that have to do with anything of substantial value. Unbelievable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. That you are accusing people who have been round these parts

of being hires of Wall Street

They don't teach manners anymore, I realize

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. We are but we are tired of the accusations

and the innuendo

By the way... hubby said I should have taken that money from Lehman in CASH, damn now we are short two trillion dollars

(And I will give you a huge free hint... this is NOT the end of the line..

Second free hint.. we are not getting a Marxist or a Socialist revolution either, when all is said and done... can you say MIXED economy? I knew you could)

Now better go back to Lehman to tell them about that little issue of pay and physically transferring those trillions to the caymans

Next time will listen to hubby when I take the mysterious Manchurian job and stay in a place for YEARS waiting for the market to crash and not even warn people (I did) that it was coming.. and wait for the neubs who just woke up to MY nightmare... aka the economy crashing

[Hardrada]

53. Prosperity is just around the corner.

-Famous Person.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. If they didn't run with the money

:sarcasm:

See I am very tired of this ... and I KNOW that before this is over we will be spending over 12T dollars...

Ah projections from Great Depression spending

That pesky history degree or two

Yep, I took a wrong turn at Albuquerque and stepped into the time tunnel

[Hardrada]

59. You know, it's a good thing we won't have any money

since it would be worthless anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Another parallel to the 29 crisis

people made exactly those arguments in the early days

Regardless... the FEDS will have to purposely devalue the dollar, like oh FDR did.

Little factoid of history, not that this matters anymore

[Hardrada]

66. I forgot my snarkasm logo!

[Satyagrahi]

60. Paul Krugman: "It would have been very dangerous not to pass it."

"It would have been very dangerous not to pass it on Friday, because who knew what would have happened, but it was the wrong bill."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27057654#27057654

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. And those of us who have been honest were not thrilled with it

either, but people like err love to misrepresent the position

Hell.. the OP misrepresented what krugman said about nationalization of the financial system

[GreenTea]

68. Krugman is always right on the money!

[Marsala]

72. Didn't he support Hillary to the bitter end?

Yeah, probably shouldn't go there.

[LaPera]

75. Didn't millions of other good democrats?

[Geek_Girl]

73. Didn't he support the bailout?

nt

[LaPera]

74. Didn't Obama?

[OakCliffDem]

76. We do need to get the power of wealth out of the hands of a few