The Altamont Pass DMZ in California

[Taverner]

The Altamont Pass is a small pass that rises to an elevation of 1000 feet above sea level and then back down again. Anyone who's driven it knows its a series of breakneck turns at breakneck speeds.

However a funny thing happens as you leave the last official Bay Area town (Livermore) and enter the first Central Valley town (Tracy) - the political landscape changes as if you didn't just leap from one part of the state to another - but as if you left the country itself. It's a DMZ of sorts, much like what separated North and South Vietnam, or what separates North and South Korea today.

Suddenly "No on 8" stickers become "Yes on 8 - FOR THE CHILDREN!!" Obama stickers change to McCain, or 'Saracuda' stickers. You can almost see the dirt on the ground change from blue to red, with no section of purple underneath.

Why this difference by just a small hilly pass? This is where the 'New' California gives way to the 'Old' California. Technology and Educated Professions do not make up the census maps over there - there its farming or some farm related job. You don't need a degree out there - in fact, if you mention you even went to college be prepared for some blank stares.

Meth and Whiskey are the drugs of choice over there, as opposed to Pot and Pinot on the Bay Area side of the DMZ. Jesus is everywhere, and not the kinder, gentler Jesus of the bay area who asks you to turn your cheek, and wouldn't bomb anyone. Here they worship "Red State Jesus" - an angry, browbeating Jesus who thinks sex is bad, shotgun weddings are good, gays should be killed and everyone should own a gun.

Sure, once you get near Sacramento things change back to sanity. But until then, you're driving in enemy territory.

[sakabatou]

1. And then there's southern California

which I think is a dark purple.

[Richardo]

2. I lived in Tracy for two years

It's not that bad. Conservative, yes, but neither side of Altamont is as homogenous red or blue as described here.

In the early 90s, Tracy was a small farming/railroad town learning to be a bedroom community - for those like us who had to commute to the Bay Area every day but could not afford to live there. I imagine now it's even more of a bedroom community and its citizenry even more diverse.

[Gormy Cuss]

47. Tracy in more recent years, even more so.

There were many people living there who worked over the hills in the Silicon Valley area. Tracy and Manteca were prime locations for new development. There was enough of a shift in sentiment on that side of the pass that it helped Jerry McInerney win his congressional seat over the odious Dick Pombo.

[Taverner]

49. Tracy is changing - back in the 70's it used to host the California NAZI Party

Seriously! They would get all three of their used Hummers together and have a parade each year, end up getting their asses kicked and went home.

[still_one]

3. That has been the way the San Joaquin Valley has been, pretty right wing

San Francisco Bay Area, LA, and the large population areas in California are progressive, which is why California usually does the right thing

[Selatius]

4. This country sometimes feels like it's multiple countries instead of one.

The only question is which country I want to be in when the shit hits the fan.

[Taverner]

19. Be in the one that can go on after the shit has been fanned

That would have to be a place that can produce its own energy, food, technology, and have the infrastructure to transport things.

[LWolf]

5. I've driven it a few times, back in the 90s.

I don't remember the breakneck turns, although it was speedy, lol.

It sounds like you're saying that cities are sane, and rural areas are "enemy territory."

It's true that more rural people are likely to vote Republican. Living rurally myself, I know a bunch.

I think it would be constructive to figure out WHY, and find some common ground, rather than label those outside urban and/or suburban areas "enemies."

My rural area has supporters of both candidates.

[EFerrari]

7. My boyfriend and I went to school out in the valley in the 70s

for a year. People threw rocks at him because he had a pony tail.

Once, the car broke down and we had to hitch home about 90 miles. That was scary. :)

[Taverner]

14. Sounds scary

Parts of Central Valley haven't changed much since then

Also some towns have outright died - there are a number of ghost towns in between Tracy and Stockton and they are even near the highway.

[EFerrari]

21. We went to Turlock following the Drama teachers that were driven out

of SF State during all those protests. I liked living in Turlock. The grocery store manager was nice to us and gave us produce because our student wallets were pretty lean. Out in the countryside, it could get pretty wild.

[LWolf]

15. I teach in a rural area.

It's true that there are pockets of deep ignorance and bigotry. I despair over it sometimes.

There are also more forward thinking people, who also happen to be "rural." They help keep me sane. I think they are the ones who could help us bridge the gap between urban and rural thinking.

I shared some of my frustration here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=219&topic_id=11098&mesg_id=11098

[EFerrari]

23. I'll check out the link. I've lived on a ranch and also in the mountains.

Loved both, the quiet and the self-sufficiency. The pace was different, too. Not slower exactly. Maybe, less anxious. :)

[LWolf]

27. I love it.

The quiet, the peace, the space. It nurtures me. As do the company of my horses, hens, etc..

[ContinentalOp]

22. I think part of the reason why is that California is not a swing state...

so maybe Democratic candidates never reach out to people in rural CA. As you say "my rural area has supporters of both candidates" and that's the way it should be. That's why the 50 state strategy is such a positive development. But we need to be expanding the party's influence, not just in red states and swing states but in these red areas of safe blue states.

[LWolf]

26. Good points! nt

[trashcanistanista]

6. Slowly but surely

we are taking it back. Placer County here, we are about to elect a Dem Congressman and we have a very active Obama contingent. We have new Democratic clubs springing up in the rural towns and lots of new members. After Sacramento, Placer goes right up to the Oregon border. Mark my words, it will be blue by Nov. 4th. You will not recognize the color of your state on Nov. 5th. I promise.

[TahitiNut]

8. It's also the divide between mostly 49ers fans and mostly Raiders fans.

(The Raiders fans are far more likely to urinate in the stands.)

:silly:

[LeftyMom]

11. Or stab people.

[Taverner]

12. Or uninate on people while stabbing them

[LeftyMom]

17. I get to make these jokes because my Mom is a Raider fan.

In her defense, she's actually from Oakland. Well, born there, and raised, poor dear, in San Leandro.

[Taverner]

18. I get to make these jokes because I don't give a rat's ass about the NFL

I'm more of a College Football/MLB kinda guy

But having said that, I'm no fan of Al "Darth Raider" Davis

Cheney meets Charles Nelson Reilly

[arcadian]

28. San Leandro, that's where The North Face is HQed

I know because I had to send my tent there to get it repaired. :D

[tularetom]

9. I've spent most of my life here in this valley

and the old stereotypes are starting to blur a bit.

The populations of valley towns are becoming more and more diverse (browner and browner if you will) and the old farmer/merchant/banker oligarchies that made up moat of the city councils and boards of supervisors are being replaced by professionals, teachers and public and private sector middle managers. Hispanics are the majority in many valley cities' populations and there is a large southeast asian component also.

Other groups that were originally brought here as farm labor (Japanese, Portuguese, and dust bowl refugees) have more or less assimilated and melded into the general population through intermarriage and occupational advancement.

My father came here from Oklahoma in the 30's and there was a very rigid caste system in place here then (or so I'm told). The class structure has broken down a lot in the 70 years since then.
Although there are still a lot of dumshits here, I've seen a lot of progress in my lifetime.

There has been a real estate meltdown in many parts of the valley and a lot of people are in deep shit financially. I can easily envision some of the poorer valley counties going Democratic this November.

[Taverner]

10. God I hope so....

[XOKCowboy]

20. I've seen that in Oklahoma also...

People in rural areas are hit hard by this economy. Many are small businesspeople and independent contractors (plumbers, carpenters, heavy equipment operators, electricians, truck drivers, etc) with very little backup financially. We live 10 miles out from a small suburb that's 35 miles from Tulsa. I was shocked to see Obama signs in the yards of some of the little ranchettes on the road to our house last time I was home. Now some people back home will never vote for Obama due to racism but those yard signs gave me a lot of hope.

[EFerrari]

24. In Turlock, mid-seventies, there was pretty much only one restaurant

where Latinos were really welcomed. We had to go looking for it when we wanted some Mexican food. Everywhere else, there seemed to be tension. People sitting low in their booths with their heads pretty much down. I'd never seen anything like it in my life. It was only later that I realized that my Daly City neighborhood and later, our Sunnyvale neighborhood were segregated, and *that's* why I'd never seen anything like that . . .

[tularetom]

33. I can tell you some Turlock stories clear into the 90's

that would freak you out, including "n-word don't let the sun set on you" signs, burning crosses and harassment of minority students and faculty. Both my kids attended Turkey Tech in the 80's and my son-in-law is a graduate.

But the city was celebrated in Ripley's Believe it or Not for having the most chirches per capita of any city in the US.

A lot of that has changed by now due primarily to the influx of Bay Area folks who moved out in search of affordable housing.

[EFerrari]

35. I lived across the street from the school for a while at the Far East Apts.

There were piano practice rooms open just about 24/7 a minute away. :)

Then, we rented a falling down house right on Main Street. We shared a wall with an office that faced Main -- three ladies operating the Western Union, a real estate outfit AND Avon or something. They thought we were exotic because one minute we were listening to rock and the next minute, we had Bach on. Two floors, three bedrooms, two baths (one that worked!) for about $225 a month. And, they were probably ripping us off.

I think that was 73-74 school year. It was the year the Watergate tape transcripts came out because I remember laughing out loud in the library and the librarian shushing me. I was about 16 and my friends were all a few years older.

[XOKCowboy]

13. I love that stretch of road. The windfarm is very dramatic..

We do a lot of work in San Jose and it's the shortest way to I-80 East and home. I never noticed the cultural differences noted in the OP but I was in an air-conditioned van or truck headed home and only stopped for gas or an In-N-Out burger on the way to spending the night in Reno.

As another poster noted with all of the exurbs sprouting up all I seen from the road is car dealerships and shopping malls supporting The Bay Area commuters.

Your post reminded me of a story. We have a neighbor who's been a farmer/rancher all of his life. He took over the family farm right out of high school and never looked back. Dave is one of the finest, most down home people that I've ever met. His brother however went on to college and went to work in the oil business. When it tanked in the mid-80s he came back to the ranch. Now Dick is a good guy but you can tell he never figured he'd work with his hands. Dave told him one day that so and so needed someone to drive a truck and that Dick should go talk to him. Dick said "But Dave I've got a college education." Dave just smiled and said "I doubt he'll hold that against ya." Sometimes ya just gotta love country people. :)

[Taverner]

16. I do like the wind farms - there's more in between Concord and Stockton

Out in the Delta Flats, near Discovery Bay

[XOKCowboy]

25. They used to be unique to CA...

I only saw them at Altamont Pass and on I-10 west of Palm Springs. Now they are popping up everywhere. On I-70 west of Salina KS they're building a huge wind farm with the new bigger Vestas windmills. Also on I-80 in Wyoming they're building huge windfarms. Big DOH on that one. That stretch of Wyoming is renowned for its constant high winds. There is also one on the WY/CO border between Ft. Collins and Laramie. It's a very encouraging sign.

One day I hope to drive from Las Vegas to Reno on 95 or on I-80 from Cheyenne to Reno and see miles and miles of solar farms. We've got to get off of fossil fuels and harness the energy that Mama Nature gives us for free.

[EFerrari]

29. Did they go up under Jerry Brown? Because I think I remember

that people made fun of him because of them.

[XOKCowboy]

31. Probably. Just like they made fun of Jimmy Carter

People are very short sighted. Even now.

[WillyT]

30. 2002

[XOKCowboy]

32. Interesting map.. What are the 2 counties on the east side that are blue?

I'm taking that's close to Mammoth and Lake Tahoe.

[WillyT]

37. Alpine And Mono

Alpine is just south of the Tahoe area, and has a fairly large gay community.



Mono is just on the east side of Yosemite.



:hi:

[XOKCowboy]

39. Love Mono Lake

Ridden a motorcycle all through that country. I remember thinking at the time (early 80s) that Lee Vining was the most expensive town in America when I paid $3 per gallon for gas! :)

[FirstLight]

53. I'd like to think that El Dorado Co is blue...

But there are alot of folks in Elk Grove and Rancho Cordova that may outnumber us liberal mountain folks - placerville and Tahoe are pretty liberal. I have lived her 15 years anbd actually see more "pockets" of red and blue in the area...

But the Lake sure is a purty blue color, and we have seen changes in Douglas county, Nev. that may indicate it is going blue too! I was just driving lower Kingsbury this morning and saw a whole neighborhood with obama/biden signs! and that's the Nevada side! yay!

[EFerrari]

34. Why are the coasts so blue? Sea air?

Better transportation?

[WillyT]

38. Oh C'Mon... You Know The Answer To That !!!

We were infiltrated by the KGB several decades ago.



:evilgrin:

:hi:

[EFerrari]

40. "Don't ever get busted in Merced County! We've been busted four times

and it was the worst!" -- my ride ca. 1974.

:rofl:

[petgoat]

43. I'd suspect that coastal dwellers are largely people who live there because they want to live there

while inland dwellers are largely people who live there because they live there.

One interesting thing is the blue counties lining both banks of the Mississippi
River--in otherwise red states.

[EFerrari]

46. That is interesting. I didn't know that.

:)

The short time I lived inland, it felt weird to be so far away from water. Physically very odd.

[petgoat]

51. The Great Lakes are big enough to have beaches and surf.

But the lack of salt makes them smell funny.

Rivers and lakes can feed the urge to be near water,
but there's nothing like the ocean.

[EFerrari]

55. I co-sponsored a seminar at Lake Geneva one year

and it was lovely there. But, you're right. The salt monster in me wasn't satisfied.



lol

[Taverner]

48. It's not just that - we have a completely different culture on the West Coast

Homophobia is a no no, and a person's liable to get their ass kicked for saying something disparaging about gays.

Racism is definitely a no no, and if one ends up getting in a fight after saying something racist, don't expect anyone to break up the fight.

We would rather our kids smoke pot than drink.

We would rather our kids get an education than save their souls.

We like the "good Jesus" from Godspell, not the "mean Jesus" from The Passion.

Traffic is to be expected - complaining about it means you must not be from here.

Waste, especially gas waste, is frowned upon. Although I don't agree, Hummers regularly get vandalized in Berkeley. Elsewhere not so much so, but that's just Berkeley.

If you go to an Evangelical Church, you must accept other Christians as Christians. None of this "well you don't beleive in such-and-such, so you're REALLY not a Christian." Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, United Methodists, UCC, Catholics, Presbys,etc - all are Considered Christian.

Oh, and despite what rural folks would have you believe, bay area folks like to be left alone.

[EFerrari]

52. We're also less connected to our neighbors than a lot of places.

So, in one way, we value tolerance. But in another, we don't want people to get too close to us. The middle distance is good, if you will.

In order to have a relationship with your neighborhood, you mostly need a dog, a kid or a local team. Or, you are a cop, a firefighter or a shop owner. It's not a habit we seem to have, imo.

[Taverner]

54. Or a party that gets neighbors to call the cops on you

But I don't practice that method much these days anymore

[EFerrari]

56. LOL! There is a group of teens that hang out directly across the street

at their grandparents' house (hello?) and they probably cook meth in the basement. They park their cars on the sidewalk and for a while, were openly dealing in the street -- enough of them to shut traffic down. It took months of us calling poor Taraval Station every five minutes to get them to cool it.

I'm SO happy my kids are not that young any more!

Mostly 'way out here on Ocean Beach, there is a mix of gay professionals, apt dwellers and some Asian families that have more than two gens living at home. It looks like the United Nations and I love that part. :)

Lots of dog people. But still, no one smiles at you first unless they know you. Isn't that something? It's so simple, too. :)

[Taverner]

57. And rust. Lots of rust in Ocean Beach area

:P

Seriously it must be awesome there about now

[EFerrari]

58. We should build a museum to rust!

lol

When I first moved here, I was a little freaked out because it only looked marginally safe. But, after four years, I walk Kid after midnight all the time. It was sprinkling last night, and this morning, the surfer babes of both sexes were trekking out to the beach. Sun's in and out. It'll do. :hi:

[musiclawyer]

36. The GOP thinks they own the central valley still....... but they don't

Tracy and Modesto now have democratic reps in congress, and charlie brown could win it for us here in the foothills on the other side of the valley. There have been lots of post lately here describing how the central valley is now chok full of coast transplants, immigrants, and that near half the households now speak a language other than english at home. The only true GOP stonghold on CA in the near future will be way up in Redding and surroundings. CA is blue and getting bluer for the lifetime of everyone reading this.

[petgoat]

41. I've lived in red states and in red counties, and I object to the attitude about "enemy territory"

Sure, people have different opinions about stuff than
you do, but that's because they hang out with different
people than you do, and their media tell them different
things than your media tell you.

Most of them are nice hardworking people and most of their
unfortunate ideas are the product more of ignorance and
intellectual laziness than malice. If you treat them
respectfully like individuals they'll do the same for you.

If you come on with an attitude like you're expecting them
to live up to every redneck stereotype, they'll treat you
like the pointy-headed arrogant know-it-all they think you
are.

(One thing, though. It is well to be a competent mechanic
and to carry tools. They consider it a great prank to tamper
with cars, and if a man can't make a simple repair they figure
he deserves the trouble he gets.)

TV used to go a long way to reinforce divisive stereotypes.
I don't know if it still does. They used to have a lot of shows
that make urbanites think country-music land is full of murdering
half-wits, and that make country dwellers think the cities are
nothing but wall-to-wall murder.

I get a bit impatient with my country brothers sometimes, but they're
not bad people--just misinformed.

[Taverner]

45. Sigh - we could go at this all day

But we shouldn't - its not good for either of us

Let's just agree to disagree, and I'll apologize for the enemy territory remark (even though that's how I feel passing through places like Buttonwillow and Lodi)

[stuckinlodi]

42. But the Stockton Record Endorsed Obama

First Dem they've endorsed in 72 years. And we DID get rid of Pombo in '06, so here's a little hope.

The change is the economy. Real estate was the big game changer - when the bottom fell out, it hit here the hardest. Bay Area people came in looking for lower prices, and it drove the prices up. Now San Joaquin County is #1 in foreclosures, and Dems are gaining ground because people are hurting.

[EFerrari]

44. You sure did get rid of Pombo! I was monitoring that election.

It was a beautiful thing. Welcome to DU, stuckinlodi!

[Sebastian Doyle]

50. Of course... it's Altamont.

Where you can't even go to a fucking concert without getting killed. :evilfrown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OukHmaWZ_JU