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France falls for Rovian propaganda; urges $500B Euro bail-out

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 01:31 PM
Original message
France falls for Rovian propaganda; urges $500B Euro bail-out
Edited on Thu Oct-02-08 01:32 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
Don't these idiots know this crisis is fake? Don't they know DUers have gotten credit card applications in the mail?
France heaped pressure on Gordon Brown last night by floating an ambitious plan for a €300 billion (£237 billion) bailout fund to rescue crippled banks across Europe.

As the world held its breath on the fate of America’s $700 billion bank bailout plan, President Sarkozy was seeking the backing of European leaders for his own lifeboat.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/article4864032.ece

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. And Dexia and Fortis in Belgium
Edited on Thu Oct-02-08 01:35 PM by sandnsea
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Germany and Britain don't like the plan.
Edited on Thu Oct-02-08 01:46 PM by girl gone mad
Mr Sarkozy, whose country holds the European presidency, is seeking Mr Brown’s support before an emergency summit, scheduled tentatively for Saturday, with Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian Prime Minister, and Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor. His proposal was greeted with scepticism in Britain and outright hostility in Germany. It appears to involve the creation of a Europe-wide emergency fund that would be used to prop up banks when national governments are unable to intervene.

Ms Merkel said that Germany could not and would not issue a blank cheque for all banks, “regardless of whether they behave in a responsible manner or not”.

Why does Merkel want to destroy the world economy?
:sarcasm:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. She's conservative
You know that, right?
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. and Sarkozy is....? n/t
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Smart. Apparently. n/t
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Nice attempt at diversion. He's futher to the right than Merkel.
If this plan is so good, why do you need to resort to calling anyone who supports it a right winger, as if this is just a petty political issue to you?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Because I can read
and the reasons most people oppose this is because it would interfere with the holy free market.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. She's German
Germans have well justified fear of hyperinflation imprinted in their genetic structure.

French, Brits and especially USAns are more than willing to follow Zimbabwe all the way.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hmm, worlds leading economists or self-appointed DU economic experts?
On one hand we have people who have studied economics for a lifetime and understand its intricacies and shortcomings.

versus

Internet Keyboard Economists who oppose anything blindly that seems like it might help out someone better off than they are.

Don't get me wrong - the bail out is far from ideal, but its necessary at this point. I believe it to be a small piece of the puzzle and a potential Obama Presidency will be better equipped to institute sweeping reforms and measures in its wake.

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Everyone knows the financial sector is in big trouble.
We don't agree on how much of an impact their failure will have on our overall economy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=389644&mesg_id=389644

The meltdown of Wall Street and the resulting government intervention are real and will reshape the industry. But it's much less apparent what the ramifications are beyond the financial industry. The link between Main Street and Wall Street has always been mysterious. There have been Wall Street crises that barely touched the broader economy (think the Panic of 1907 and the implosion of Long Term Capital Management in 1998), and there have been Main Street downturns that have only marginally hurt Wall Street (the 1981-82 recession). Many people say that today's crisis on Wall Street will have dire effects on the "real" economy, but for now, at least, those assertions are just that. The U.S. economy, at least as measured by GDP, has shown surprising growth through the first six months of the year, up 3.3 percent in the second quarter alone. Consumer spending has flattened but not collapsed under the weight of higher gas and food prices and tighter credit. Stocks are down, but in the last presidential election year of 2004, the only real gains in the market happened between late October and the end of the year. On Main Street, there may not be much to celebrate, but it's a far cry from what's happening on Wall Street.

And it's not even happening everywhere on Wall Street. Trillion-dollar asset-management companies such as Fidelity and Vanguard, for instance, are doing fine, though the decline in stock prices is a negative for them. Companies that make money processing transactions, ranging from massive banks like State Street and Bank of New York, haven't imploded. Credit-card companies like Capital One, and Visa (which had one of the most successful initial public offerings in years earlier this summer) have not seen the consumer defaults that the dire rhetoric would suggest. In free-fall are investment banks and anyone involved in mortgages and their many derivatives, but parts of Wall Street are business as normal, though you'd never know that judging from the mood. After all, Bank of America—flush with consumer deposits from Main Street—actually had $50 billion to buy Merrill Lynch.

Even the absolute size of the problems isn't as dire as depicted. Lehman Brothers just before it went bankrupt had a market value of $2.9 billion and about 25,000 employees. Most of its value is now wiped out, though 10,000 of those workers will find new jobs at Barclays. But even at its height, it was far smaller than hundreds of companies that get less press. Take a company called Polycom, which makes teleconferencing equipment; you've probably seen their triangle-shaped units in some office or another. It had a market value of about $2.4 billion. If Polycom were, hypothetically, to go bankrupt tomorrow, would people be tearing their hair out about the end of teleconferencing? Doubtful.

Of course, unlike the Polycoms of the world, investment banks and insurers like AIG have trillions of dollars in outstanding assets, obligations, and contracts. But that doesn't mean trillions of dollars in losses. Only a portion of their business is tied up with mortgages and derivatives, and while some of those might be worthless, most aren't. We know that because even in a terrible, dysfunctional market, they have been purchased.

The conventional wisdom is that Wall Street is the center of the global financial system, the axis around which all revolves, and if it breaks, if the current government bailout fails to stem the bleeding, the entire world is imperiled. Short-term, there's some truth in that: the world needs liquidity (cash) just as the body needs water. But the world needs a lot of things: electricity and transportation, for instance. In 2002, the global airline industry imploded in the wake of 9/11. Globally, 150,000 people lost their jobs—more than the dire projections of job losses this year on Wall Street. The U.S. government provided $15 billion in bailout funds to airlines in November 2002 alone. In 2008, faced with sharply higher fuel costs, the U.S. airline industry has already shed 22,000 jobs, and has notched tens of billions in losses. Yet the collapse of the airline industry in both 2002 and 2008 did not lead to claims that global travel was imperiled or that the system as we know it was teetering on the brink.
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