DOW down 300 points right After Bailout gets passed by Senate

[Geek_Girl]

Boy that bailout plan sure is great for the economy!


:sarcasm:

http://money.cnn.com/

[TwixVoy]

1. Americans may be fools allowing

congress to grasp at strings trying to "fix" this mess but the rest of the world isn't. They are getting the hell out of the dollar.

[tuckessee]

2. That means they should up it to 2-3 trillion.

Why not? What the hell, it's only paper money.

[SidneyCarton]

3. Out of curiosity, do you have a plan GG?

Or is this all just schadenfreude?

[fascisthunter]

5. Should She...?

[SidneyCarton]

9. Not necessarily, but it makes the difference between whether or not she should be taken seriously.

If she has an alternative, then one can consider the merits or drawbacks of that idea. If she just wants to "watch it burn" then the discussion is not worth my time.

[fascisthunter]

14. I'll Take Ravi Batra's and Kucinich's Take over Paulson's anyday

I'm pretty sure most of us without having a plan, base our opinions of this bailout on what some economists and politicians are saying.... according to your standard, just about everybody on DU should never be taken seriously...

[Virginia Dare]

29. What good is a plan that will never be passed?...

we need a little dose of reality.

[fascisthunter]

31. I'm Well Aware of Reality... take the insults elsewhere

[Virginia Dare]

33. Not an insult, a serious question..n/t

[SidneyCarton]

36. If you bothered to read my response to her when she explained her position...

You would see that I accept the fact that she agrees with Congressman DeFazio's plan.

Spare me the righteous indignation it's been played out.

[Geek_Girl]

6. I think DeFazio's bill would be a better solution

nt

[SidneyCarton]

8. Ok, just curious.

[depakid]

4. You might be looking at the wrong measures

Libor Soars, Commercial Paper Slumps as Credit Freeze Deepens

Interest rates on three-month dollar loans rose to the highest since January, short-term corporate borrowing fell by the most ever and high-yield loans tumbled, exacerbating the credit freeze that's paralyzing business around the world.

The London interbank offered rate that banks charge each other for loans rose for a fourth day to 4.21 percent, boosting the Libor-OIS spread, a gauge of cash scarcity among banks, to a record, while a drop in financial issuance caused the U.S. commercial paper market to tumble 5.6 percent to a three-year low, according to the Federal Reserve.

The crisis deepened after the worst month for corporate credit on record. Leveraged loan prices plunged to all-time lows, short-term debt markets seized up and even the safest company debt suffered the worst losses in at least two decades. Credit markets have frozen as financial institutions hoard cash to meet future funding needs amid deepening concern that more banks will collapse.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=avcUzkUD7vWs&refer=home

[SidneyCarton]

7. Don't bother explaining, this gal is certain that she knows all there is to know on this subject.

A bunch of posters tried a few days ago, it was pointless. It is all about the Stock Market right?

:sarcasm:

[depakid]

16. It's complicated but not inaccessible

and I guess I'm not ready to give up on people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. trust me, some folks are willfully ignorant and prooud of it

something about horses and water if ye get me drift

[depakid]

39. Some are, some aren't

My bet is that a lot of folks are interested in throwing off the mantle- after 8 years of nutcase things- food recalls, bizarre statements from administrative agencies, needless wars- who wouldn't?

[Marrah_G]

17. She refuses to listen or learn and is convinced she is right

Even when time and again her ignorance is proven by fact.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. remember she also told us that all was well

when the market went up yetserday

The market numbers are a sympton, but don't tell them that... I mean there are underlying reasons why it does whta it does

Wait until unemployment numbers and quarerly earnings come out

Those will make many quite jittery

Hell, they should make people HERE jittery... just don't expect it

[Hannah Bell]

40. libor = set by16 international banks - i.e. big capital. doesn't come down from heaven,

set bt men - with agendas.

[gratuitous]

10. The market goes down with the plan fails, it goes down when the plan passes

I'm beginning to wonder if this scheme is actually going to address any real or perceived problem at all. But I am definitely convinced that $700 billion is a lot of money. We should probably check into where it's going, and if it's going where it will be effective, or if it's just going to vanish down some black hole.

[Marrah_G]

15. The house did not pass it. The senate passed a separate bill

NEITHER have passed both houses.

The House is the one where the republicans are revolting.

[gratuitous]

45. I'm sure the Republicans in the Senate are revolting, too

And I sure don't want to start a competition. :)

But the prevailing wisdom when the House rejected the plan was it was The End of the World As We Know It. Last night, with the Senate considering approval of a plan, it was The Salvation of Western Civilization. In both instances, however, the stock market plunged hundreds of points the next morning, which led to my surmise that the solutions under consideration by either house of Congress may not have a whole lot to do with the problem at hand.

If there is a solution to be worked out (and a boatload of taxpayer money applied), I'd really prefer that it be well-crafted with significant input from a number of sources.

[Marrah_G]

46. 74-25 vote to pass

15 R voted nay
1 I voted Nay
1 D did not vote
9 D voted Nay

Not much of a revolt in the senate. It's the house that is having the real issue with 2/3 of the R's being against the measure.

[Geek_Girl]

18. the market went up when the Bill Failed in the House

Now that the senate passed the bill and it looks like the bill will indeed pass, the Market drops.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Where you watching the same market?

IT CRASHED 777 points...

It recoved SOME the next day.

My god, you even don't get what you are watcihng on the Teevee... no wonder you don't get the overall economy and how bad it is out there!

[Virginia Dare]

32. There may have been some other piece of news that effected it..

there is more than one thing that drives the market. Be prepared for a general downward trend, but it will rollercoaster for a while.

[sharp_stick]

11. Please don't compare single events to the immediate market

It's easy to do but almost impossible to relate the actual effect that something will have on the market and the immediate effect is no indicator at all of the overall effect might have in the long run.

This bailout package may not have a lot of effect on the overall market except on the edges, the real outcome will have to be measured in the really obscure overnight rates and other areas that I honestly have no idea about.

I only wish they would get the economy out of the really bizzare world of derivatives and what I consider fake money and back to the basics where real money has to trade hands with every trade.

[Geek_Girl]

19. All I'm saying is the when the Bill Failed the Market went Up

and Now the bailout has passed the senate and the Market has dropped.

Just Saying.

[Marrah_G]

23. DIFFERENT BILL- DIFFERENT PART OF CONGRESS

GET IT?

[Geek_Girl]

41. Yes I get it when it looks like the bailout will fail the investor invest in the market

when it looks like the bailout will pass investors pull their money out of the market.

It reminds my of that joke where the wife finds her husband in bed with another woman and the husband says,
"Are you going to believe what I'm telling you, or your own eyes."

[Marrah_G]

42. No- You have it completely wrong.

The House did not pass the bill and the markets tanked.

Then the markets came back up halfway.

Then the SENATE passed a different version of the bill.

The markets tanked over a combination of fear that the house would reject the bill AND very bad economic indicators released today from the 3rd quarter.

These were two different bills. Two different houses of Congress. There was also additional VERY BAD growth numbers today.

Please educate yourself before quoting things as facts.

[Marrah_G]

13. It's the house that is the issue- please think before you type.

[dkf]

20. The senate was never the problem...its the house that everyone is scared about.

[pnutbutr]

22. yup

http://www.nasdaq.com//aspxcontent/newsstory.aspx?textpath=20081002


MARKET SNAPSHOT: U.S. Stocks Fall Steeply As Economic Fear Trumps Rescue Vote


By Nick Godt

Stocks fell steeply Thursday, with concerns about the economy returning to the fore as rising jobless claims and plunging factory orders offset hopes that the $700 billion financial-bailout plan will pass Congress after being approved by the Senate.

"Even though there's fear out there that they may temper or reject the bill, the market's decline today is on the back of dismal economic numbers," said Peter Cardillo, market economist at Avalon Partners.

Crude-oil prices slid 3.6% to $95 a barrel, and the energy sector stumbled 8% in the broader market.

The rise in jobless claims ahead of Friday's employment report for September " suggests the economy is now on a slippery road toward a consumer-led recession," Cardillo said.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJI) was down 273 points, or 2.5%, to 10, 558, with 27 of its 30 components trading lower.

Exacerbating worries about the economy, Marriott International (MAR) warned next year's profit may fall as quarterly net income dropped nearly 30%.

"We're also approaching earnings season," Avalon's Cardillo said. "And negative announcements are likely to weigh on equities in the short term."

The shares of firms benefiting from global growth, such as Alcoa Inc. (AA) and Caterpillar Inc. (CAT), led the declines among blue chips, with the aluminum giant's stock off 8% and the equipment maker's stock down 5%.

General Electric's (GE) stock fell nearly 10%. Its shares came under pressure Wednesday amid concerns about its financial arm. It also announced a $12 billion public offering to be priced Thursday, and an investment from billionaire Warren Buffett.

Away from the Dow, ConocoPhillips (COP), the No. 3 U.S. oil major, said it sees lower prices for crude and natural gas in the third quarter and refining margins falling worldwide.

Separately, Merrill Lynch cut its 2009 oil price forecast to $90 a barrel from $107 a barrel and warned that a "synchronous global recession" could bring oil prices to $50 a barrel.

Crude futures last traded down $3.53, or 3.6%, at $95.01 a barrel.

The S&P 500 index (SPX) fell 32 points, or 2.8%, to 1,128. By sector, energy led the declines, slumping 8%, followed by industrials, off 4.3%, and materials, down 4.3%.

The financial sector was among the sectors performing the least badly, down 2.6%, after the Securities and Exchange Commission extended its ban on short selling to as long as Oct. 17, or up to three business days after the passage of the bailout plan, but won't make it permanent.

The Nasdaq Composite (RIXF) lost 59 points, or 2.9%, to 2,010.

Jobless claims rise

Jobless claims remained at their highest level in seven years, the Labor Department reported Thursday, as people in the hurricane-hit states of Louisiana and Texas filed for benefits. For the week ended Sept. 27, seasonally adjusted first-time claims for unemployment benefits rose 1,000, to 497,000 -- the highest level since late September 2001.

Meanwhile, the Commerce Department reported factory orders for August fell 4%, the biggest such drop in two years.

The claims data also come on the eve of pivotal Labor Department data on the nation's nonfarm payrolls and the unemployment rate for September.

The dollar rallied sharply, especially against the euro, as European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet acknowledged a deteriorating European economy and that the ECB had considered cutting interest rates. The central bank, however, kept rates steady at 4.25% Thursday.

The euro touched a one-year low against the dollar.

Bailout hopes

The Senate fairly easily approved a revised $700 billion U.S. plan to stabilize the financial industry, just two days after the House of Representatives rejected it.

The House may now consider it on Friday, according to House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer.

The revamped Senate bill sticks to the core plan developed by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke to have the government buy and hold toxic mortgage assets, freeing up funds for banks to begin lending again.

It gives Paulson the $700 billion in phases, with $250 billion up front, then $100 billion pending presidential approval and another $350 billion pending congressional approval.

UBS (UBS), the Swiss bank that's sustained big losses arising from the subprime crisis, said it would return to profit in the third quarter after substantially reducing its exposure to U.S. commercial and residential mortgages.

Elsewhere, Eli Lilly (LLY) is the unnamed pharmaceutical giant behind a $6.1 billion bid for ImClone Systems (IMCL), according to a Wall Street Journal report. ImClone, without identifying the firm, said that due diligence has been completed and that a proposal not subject to financing has been tendered.

Deal speculation also swirled around Constellation Energy Group (CEG), which reportedly may receive a counter bid from EdF, the French electricity giant.

(END) Dow Jones Newswires
10-02-081158ET
Copyright (c) 2008 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Should I even look into the data

and should I do that before or after my BP meds take effect?

Are they as bad as we fear and do they include the unemployment data? That I expect to be really bad

[Marrah_G]

you don't want to look my friend...and yes.

It's grim.

I may be out of a job if things don't perk back up.

Anyone out there need a damn good office admin? I can learn anything !

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. We have stopped going out

or doing anything else fun... the threat of cuts also looms at your local post office

NOt that people like the OP get it... why that is bad

Me, have become quite the tight wad

[Marrah_G]

30. I don't really have much left to cut

unless I turn off cable and the internet and take my boys out of football/karate.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. I undestand,

trust me I do...

Hubby hates the work, but I keep telling him, it IS a paycheck

Anyhow, bad for my pb, where is this horrible data? I know yahoo finance... of I go

[Marrah_G]

35. here

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/market-dispatches-100208.aspx?icid=money_081

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. I did and it is bad

but then again people just don't get it yet

[torbird]

26. This reminds me of something Karl Marx said 160 years ago...

...it was about capitalism and boom-and-bust cycles. Something about how markets fluctuate wildly when in crisis, and usually just before a big crash.

Now what was the name of that piece? Was it a pamphlet? A Manifest -- O! There it is.

[anigbrowl]

38. Quite true. Unfortunately, he was wrong about socialism leading to better asset allocation

I'm fond of Marx, but just because he pointed out some serious flaws in the utility of markets doesn't mean his alternative prescription solved those problems correctly.

[tama]

44. Asset allocation?

I honestly don't understand, care to expand?

[tama]

43. Austrian economists

who have at least the decency of being honest about capitalism, agree with Marx on many if not most points. The difference is that Austrian school thinks "creative destruction" is just cool and dandy, whereas Marxist would like a system that was less bi-polar and slaving and more humane.