Hmmm. I wonder if Senator McSame understands that he just voted for

[leftofthedial]

340 pages of pork--earmarks, set-asides, huge tax breaks for corporations, tax breaks for special interests, cash payoffs to specified members of Congress...

Umm, and so did Senator Obama. I'm not feeling the love--or the change--this morning.

The Senate took a terrible bill and made it much, much worse. The media, while not ignoring the pork, is certainly soft soaping the huge giveaways, designed to bribe specific members of the House into changing their "no" votes. All this pork goes to corporations, the wealthy and the lobbyists who now own our government.

Additionally, this bill gives enormous and largely unregulated powers to the Secretary of the Treasury. Why is this man the "czar" of the bailout anyway? Because he was the bush cabal point man on the "crisis"? Or because the corporatist lackeys in the Senate know he is the best connected to make the Wall Street hush money payoff?

While continuing to beat the doomsday fear mongering drums about the need for this bailout, the corporate media also fails to mention that the bill places almost no restrictions on what Paulson can do with the money once he gets it.

The oversight (ha ha ha!) will be provided by a gaggle of Administration and corporate flunkies.

Paulson gets $250 billion immediately. He can spend this pretty much however and on whatever he chooses. king george, without review or oversight, can give him another $350 billion anytime he wants to. Then they can immediately request another $100 billion if they want. They could get their $700 billion within hours of passage. The overall price tag for the handout to Wall Street has risen now from $700 billion (a number Paulson pulled out of his ass in the first place to keep it from sounding like "a trillion") to over $875 billion.


There is ZERO requirement in the bill that Paulson do ANYTHING to help ordinary citizens. There is ZERO requirement that the money not end up paying for executive golden parachutes or other compensation.

This bailout is almost exactly what the Hoover-repuke-dominated gummint did in the wake of the 1929 crash. Many historians believe it was that ill-considered, politically expedient bailout, not the stock market crash, that turned what would likely have been a recession into not only a depression, but a Great Depression.

SAY NO TO THIS SUPPLY-SIDE BAILOUT!

[dennysp]

1. That's DUMB!!! This makes NO sense whatsoever!!

They took 3 pages of crap, and turned it into over 400 pages of MORE CRAP. So, why? Knowing how important this is to our economy (or that's what they're telling us, anyway), why would we make it an even more poisonous pill for us to swallow? I don't understand, but I'm hoping the House doesn't pass it!!!

[MindMatter]

4. Especially considering that the 3 pages did absolutely nothing to address the problem

The problem is all these convoluted derivative instruments.

The theory of the plan, when you get down to basics, is that those derivatives are so messed up that nobody knows their value, and nobody wants to be stuck with them. Supposedly Paulson was going to offer to buy them at "fair market value". That is complete nonsense. If taxpayers are only offering fair market value, then that doesn't help or change anything. At fair market value, the banks could simply sell them off themselves. In reality, the only way the 3 pages makes any sense is if the taxpayers buy the toxic paper at ABOVE fair market value. They are arguing that the market doesn't know what it is doing and has undervalued the paper. That is a very interesting argument coming from these people who are all about the infinite wisdom of the free market.

But all that aside. the argument they are making to the public is that the credit market is freezing up and that is going to kill main street. That is complete bullshit. Banks have plenty of money to lend, and if they need more, the Fed will give it to them. There is absolutely nothing in this bill that affects the credit market in any way.

[leftofthedial]

15. in fact, the bill REQUIRES the government (us)

to pay more than assets are worth.

it also does not restrict what Paulson buys. He could buy office supplies or real estate or lear jets with the money if he wants.

[MindMatter]

26. And bail out foreign banks

I'm wondering about this scenario. Let me say for sake of argument:

1) Obama wins in a landslide

2) The financial problems are no better by Nov 15 with this plan in effect

3) The People are still pissed

Could President-Elect Obama work with Reid and Pelosi to bring Congress back into session to cut Bush and Paulson off at the knees?

That could be a real scenario, so you can bet Paulson will be dishing out money as fast as is humanly possible -- $20,000,000,000 a day or more. It is truly sickening to think of this.

[leftofthedial]

29. thieves don't usually hang out at the bank with the money after they rob it.

[nolabels]

7. Can you say "cluster-coitus"

It may prove to be a cornucopia of crap sandwiches that nobody wants as opposed to just something bad everybody can agree on :shrug:

[leftofthedial]

16. the 340 pages of bribes seem certain to turn 12 House "no's" into "aye's."

I hope a few House Democrats find enough spine to say no to this crap.

[nolabels]

20. If enough of them read it they are bound to find things against their own partisan principles

In the long run it everybody knows it won't work for very long. Half of the progressive caucus (thirty five votes) also vote aye which will probably change to nay also

[leftofthedial]

31. principles? in the House?

I count maybe seven principled Democrats. Of course, "principled Republican" is an oxymoron.

[City Lights]

2. According to threads here, McNasty made the rounds this AM blaming the pork on Obama.

Said when he's president he'll veto bills like this.

He voted for a bill as a senator that he'd veto as president. :crazy:

[dana_b]

3. what?! he is saying that crap?

That needs to come to light.

[City Lights]

9. Mourning Joe...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7278097

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7278081

[redqueen]

17. The pork was added to appease House Republicans, wasn't it?

And that's nothing... he also SPONSORED a bill as a Senator that he'd veto as president.

:crazy:

[City Lights]

18. That's my understanding. nt

[leftofthedial]

24. it must be nice having a base with cognitive dissonance trained out of them

--not to mention any sense of irony or hypocricy.

repukes CONSTANTLY try to have it both ways, whatever the issue.

[philly_bob]

5. "I'm not feeling the love--or the change--this morning" -- exactly. n/t

[VP505]

6. McSame probably didn't even read

the bill, much less analyze what he voted for. Democrats.Com said in an email that "They didn't just put lipstick on the pig, they added pearls!"

[leftofthedial]

32. it is a hideous document.

read it.

it's like a financial PATRIOT Act.

[pnutbutr]

8. Link to the senate bill

http://cryptome.org/bailout-senate.htm

Maybe someone would like to go through it and point out the specific areas that allow the claims of the OP so that they sound less like a knee jerk disapproval and actually have some solid credibility.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. Alot of interesting stuff there

most of which has NOTHING to do with the problem.

What the FUCK do energy efficient washing machines have to do with the credit freeze?

[pnutbutr]

11. tax credits

for the people.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. And how does that affect inter-bank lending?

Tax credits that will be in effect a year from now has NOTHING to do with a bank credit freeze today.

[pnutbutr]

13. It doesn't

But what does it hurt? It's not using the money provided for the bailout, it's just changing the text of current tax codes. Not a big deal IMO.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. It is only there, like much of the rest of this bill, to put something in there

that will get people to vote for it, regardless if the actual bailout is good or not. IT'S A FUCKING BRIBE. "Give us the bailout, and we will give you _____."

Let the bailout stand or fall on its own merits.

[leftofthedial]

19. here's a start. it was compiled by a right wing opponent of the bailout and focuses on

the powers given to the Secretary. Nevertheless it is true.

I wouldn't loan Paulson my car keys, let alone trust him with nearly a trillion dollars.

The pork is all pet House repuke giveaways--corporate tax cuts, breaks for industries in individual House constituencies, etc.

Read it. (I'm sure the Senators did not.) It's like the PATRIOT Act or the IWR. It is a travesty of a giveaway to the bush cabal.


Some examples:

Section 101(a)(1) The Treasury secretary, an appointed position, not elected, shall be able to buy quite literally anything he wants from nearly any company he wants, for any reason he wants. There will be no oversight, nor shall anyone be allowed to question him. This single person can buy anything with taxpayer cash for any cost.

Section 101(a)(3) establishes a new government bureaucracy with an unlimited number of employees to administer the purchases that the Treasury secretary wants to buy.

Section 101(e) None of these purchases will be able to be for things of value. In other words, the purchases cannot actually be worth what is paid for them — the government MUST pay more than things are actually worth to be able to buy them.

Section 102(a)(1) The government shall also create a new bureaucracy that is design to insure things that people cannot find Insurance agencies for. For example, if you cannot find an insurance company to insure your house because you live in a flood plain and a hurricane zone, the government will insure you. Anything that normal people will not risk insuring can now be insured by the government at the taxpayer’s expense. Oh, and section (c) says that the Treasury secretary can charge quite literally anything for this insurance — or nothing, if he wants to give it away.

Section 103 “Considerations” — the Treasury secretary can do whatever he wants with this act. This is the part that’s claimed to be the “taxpayer protection” part. But it really says that the secretary can “consider” taxpayers, but he can still do literally anything with the cash — it gives broad, general outlines, but zero requirements.

Section 104 — creates a board to provide “oversight” of the Treasury secretary and his actions. No actual elected officials or working people will be on this board, only bureaucrats who are already close friends and who will likely financially benefit from the secretary’s actions. Oh, AND the Treasury secretary will be on the oversight board to provide oversight of himself.

Section 106 — The Treasury Secretary shall become a real estate and financial broker. They have the power to buy and sell any assets of any company they want at any time and for any price.

Section 107 — The Treasury Secretary can waive all other rules and regulations that normally apply to government. He doesn’t have to do competitive bidding or follow any other rules because this is just too damn important to have rules.

Section 109 — The Secretary can make null and void any financial contract between any two people in America with the stroke of a pen. If you seek his permission, he can change any current mortgage contract to any terms he, personally, likes, regardless of the previous legally binding agreement. He is granted rather scary right in making decisions about private property.

Section 110 — The Secretary can modify previously agreed-to contracts at will.

Section 111 — Grants the Secretary the right to make management and payroll decisions for private companies, at his discretion.

Section 112 — Allows the Secretary to buy, sell and otherwise control foreign companies as well.

Section 115 — The Secretary only has $250 billion this week to buy stuff. Thereafter, the president can give him $350 billion more of taxpayer cash. Then the president can give him another $100 billion. In addition, this section COMPLETELY rewrites the rules of Congress for the purposes of this act.

Section 119 — You cannot sue the Treasury Secretary if his actions in supporting your competitor at lower than market rates runs you out of business. This section also rewrites various rules of courts.

Section 121 — Sets aside $50 million to establish the office of “the Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program.”

Section 122 — Increase the public debt limit to $11.315 trillion.

Section 124(1)(C) — If the bureaucrats in the new bureaucracy like you, they will make your mortgage payments for you. The decision is left to their discretion.

Section 125 — 5 Members of Congress shall be paid cash bonuses because this program was implemented.

Section 136 — The FDIC shall put up $250,000 of taxpayer cash to insure accounts, instead of the $100,000 of each account that is currently insured. (Only rich people have more than $100,000 sitting in an account.)

Section 204 — None of this money shall be counted in the budget, nor be the responsibility of Congress.

Section 301 — Big piles of tax rules that make the tax rules different for rich financial institutions, but still make the working person follow the rules or face jail. Changes tax rules for certain people, depending on their position in a company. Dramatically complicates tax rules that were already way to complex. Adds more rules to prohibit individuals and companies in basic contracts. Allows the government to set the salaries of employees of private companies.

“Division B” of this “emergency” act, the “Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008” lays out 338 pages of pork.

this is just the obvious stuff.

[pnutbutr]

21. broad interpretation without mentioning limitations

I encourage people to actually read the entire bill if they are truly interested and not take opinionated snippets like those listed above as accurate information. Subsections are very important because they provide the detailed limitations of the broad opening of each section.

[leftofthedial]

22. the list, whatever your recommendations, is a pointer to the sections within the huge

document.

I only wish our legislators would read this crap before voting on it.

[shadowknows69]

23. Unfortunately since Obama/Biden voted for it too its blank ammuntion

[leftofthedial]

25. I'm back on the fence about voting this year.

I am not a fan of the corporatist Democrats. True, McSame would be awful and Palin a complete farce. But I'm fed up with supporting politicians who work against my interests and the interests of my entire socio-economic class. I already knew Biden was a bank-deregulating gasbag and his nomination quashed my marginal support for Obama. When I saw just how awful Palin is, I decided I had to support Obama-Biden, just to keep insanity slightly further away from the nuclear trigger.

But supporting this blatantly repuke supply-side money grab is unacceptable to me. Falling for the absurd "sky-is-falling" scare tactics of the bush cabal speaks poorly of Obama's judgement.

I think I'll take the Obama sign out of my window and just ignore politics for the next 4 years.

Neither party seems to have any interest in making my life any better.

[shadowknows69]

27. I wouldn't go that far yet

I'll be President Obama's biggest critic if he satys too much in the center when/if he wins. I know they're playing politics because you have to, but I don't have to like it.

[leftofthedial]

28. me either.

I still reflexively give the finger to every mcsame sign or sticker I see.

I guess that shows how I really feel.

I guess I'll never actually get to vote *for* a president in this country. I'll just perpetually be voting against some cretinous nazi piece of crap.

[BuyingThyme]

30. kcik

[OakCliffDem]

33. That would be KICK