Republicans destroyed the U.S. and discredited capitalism

[RainDog]

and all I got was this lousy bail out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7645743.stm

The political philosopher John Gray, who recently retired as a professor at the London School of Economics, wrote in the London paper The Observer: "Here is a historic geopolitical shift, in which the balance of power in the world is being altered irrevocably.

"The era of American global leadership, reaching back to the Second World War, is over... The American free-market creed has self-destructed while countries that retained overall control of markets have been vindicated."

"In a change as far-reaching in its implications as the fall of the Soviet Union, an entire model of government and the economy has collapsed.

"How symbolic that Chinese astronauts take a spacewalk while the US Treasury Secretary is on his knees."

Emmanuel Todd clued me in to what was on the way five years ago. I recommend his book.

http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?ID=1085

Todd's bottom line: U.S. military and economic power rests increasingly on illusion, not unlike the 1990s high-tech stock bubble—which rested in large measure on accounting fraud. The United States is well on its way to being isolated economically, geographically, and diplomatically with an economy dependent on foreign subsidies the rest of the world has no further reason to provide. After the Empire is essentially a call to a world distressed by U.S. arrogance to pull away and let the United States move on down the slippery slide of isolation and decline of its own making.

[sandnsea]

1. The second this bail out is passed

The era of Reaganism will end.

The question is will we keep fighting, or go back to complacency the way we did in July when the crappy Housing Act passed.

[Oregone]

2. "while countries that retained overall control of markets have been vindicated." - Bullshit

They allowed the US to become to economically powerful, and depended entirely too much upon them.

Hence, despite how responsible and controlled countries were with their capitalistic experiment, many are poised to suffer (Canada for example).

Depressions do not happen in a vacuum, and most certainly not when the depression is happening with the "most powerful" economic country on the planet. Europe is hurting (see the Belgium banks and B&B), Asia will be hurting worse, and our dependent trade partners will be feeling sour for a while. Just look at the world economic condition during the 30's for a clue on what can happen.

In America, its all about me, me, me. Yet shortly, you, you, you will also feel the pain. Not your fault? Ah, fuck it.

[RainDog]

5. you don't get it - or are you being sarcastic with that first statement?

the point is that European nations have not let corporations control their governments. Not only that, European nations have strong unions - unions that were destroyed by Ronnie Raygun.

Yes, the entire world will be hurt by the depression created by the republicans. However, nations, such as Germany, who years ago set a goal to have 30% of their energy from renewable sources by 2010 are in a better shape to face the future. Canadians have national health care, as does EVER OTHER WESTERN DEMOCRACY. why doesn't the U.S.? because of the power of corporations to undermine the welfare of citizens, that's why. Because of the bullshit ideology of empire and the McCarthy-ite fear of "socialism." Because of the stupidity of Americans who vote against their self interests, economically. Because we are the only western democracy that has to contend with idiots who try to insert religion into science classes.

Read Chalmers Johnson about U.S. hyper militarism and the bases all over the world - that were not wanted in many cases, btw. Hyperpuissance is the term by Todd.

Todd also predicted the fall of the Soviet Union based upon its inner contradictions. We are seeing the same thing here. Unregulated capitalism is bad for democracy. Read Kevin Phillips about this.

they didn't "allow" the U.S. to become economically strong. after WWII, Europe's manufacturing base was decimated and the U.S. was the only kid on the block with the tinker toys. The U.S has destroyed itself.

Hopefully something better will follow the obliteration of the republicans.

[Oregone]

7. Somewhat sarcastic, but undoubtedly, too many of these nations are intertwined economically

And Yes, I realize Canada has national health care as you mentioned (I used some today), but they also have a little friend called NAFTA.

Canada, a resource rich country with a budget surplus, which doesn't even have inter-provincial free-trade, is forced to trade preferentially with the US? The last decade of manufacturing development has been tailored around conformance to NAFTA. What's going to happen to them when their trading partner goes down (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression_in_Canada)? Especially if a trade war started like it did last time. Shifting trade patterns instantaneously to countries that are less affected isn't going to happen overnight (it took forever in the Great Depression for Canada to establish significant trade with England, in order to save their ass). Do you think Canada is just going to be able to pick up all its exports that aren't going out (especially if the USD turns to shit), and send them elsewhere immediately? That takes time, and throughout time, people suffer.

Look, most of Europe is going to be shaken hard here. You think Germany is going to be ok because of energy independence? You think countries that did everything right, who have to completely redo their trade patterns aren't going to have issues? Everyone is going to suffer because the US is in a continual pattern of shitting on everyone and anything anytime they'll think it'll save them a shekel or two.

Do I think countries that did things right will be better off? Perhaps in some regard. Maybe theyll be a social net for people to fall on. But I think people will still be falling if this is bad. I do not think their practice of having safe and responsible banking practices will keep their unemployment rates from doubling at least and food from becoming scarce.

Who knows if its just a little boy crying wolf though. I guess we will see.

[RainDog]

10. Of course I think this is a world-wide crisis

My op was not about that issue. The issue is that Reaganomics has deregulated the U.S. out of a position of leadership that it held since WWII.

My pov is that this IS a defining point in history. It's not prescriptive; it's descriptive. The balance of power in the world is changing as we speak because of Republican mismanagement of this nation. That has nothing to do with whether or not other nations are also hit by this crisis since the crisis itself has been created by a particular ideology - that will now hurt the entire world.

If you have such a toxic influence, people don't want you to make the rules.

If the U.S. bond rating gets downgraded to banana republic status, that will not make the U.S. more powerful in relation to the rest of the world. If the U.S. wants cooperation on this or that, it will have to negotiate from a weakened position.

I seriously doubt that, in my lifetime at the least, the dollar will ever be as dominant as it has been over the course of time since WWII. This, again, is historic.

When the British Empire fell, Britain did not stop being a powerful nation. It just wasn't the only player on the field. That is what we are seeing now. Personally, I think a democracy is better than an empire and hope that this nation will make choices that foster democracy, not greater fascism and strife. In the short term, I think we still have a big fight ahead to work for democracy rather than fascism. All nations were impacted by the great depression too. Some nations dealt with this one way, some another.

My pov is one of a person who read about this coming over 5 years ago who, while seeing this begin, is still astonished. Like when you hear the rumblings and know a navalanche is coming - yet - when you start to see the side of the mountain fall - it is still jaw-dropping sight.

[Poseidan]

3. not American

Republican free-market creed. It states perfectly clearly, in the Constitution, the United States is entirely open to regulating commerce. In the United States, only Republicans and their treasonous allies want to destroy or defy the Constitution. Much of the world truly does not understand the dynamics of U.S. politics. If it wasn't for the Republican/allied forces, the United States would likely have no enemies.

The United States, once Republicans and their allies are rendered powerless, will be perfectly secure.

[Harmonicaman]

6. One thing..

"The United States, once Republicans and their allies are rendered powerless, will be perfectly secure."


Payback is a bitch, and theres some countries waiting for payback time.
Remember how the Russians were lorded over by Reaganites and Republicans in general - et al ,at the end of the cold war it was all about the stunning victory of capitalism.

Now the Russians don't have a banking crisis, plenty of oil and gas money, and I suspect a burning desire to rub Americas nose in it, especially after Georgia and the BushCo warmongering over its missile defense shield. Even Pailins recent painting of a picture of the evil Puting lurking over the hillside shows the old style Republican mantras haven't changed, the difference is, picking a bogeyman who is in a position to comfortably sit back and laugh as you teeter on the edge of an abyss isn't a smart move. So of course its par for the course.

As the dollar tanks, more oil producing countries will switch to another currency for trading, probably the Euro - Saudi will hang on a little while longer than the others, maybe a day or so, but will also go over should the dollar look like it will really die, showing just where their allegiances have always actually lain.

Theres dark times ahead folks.

[Birthmark]

4. Again

Republicans destroyed the U.S. and discredited capitalism...again. This isn't the first time and won't be the last.

[tama]

8. And

the rest of the world thanks republicans.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

9. Capitalism discredits capitalism, Republicans are but enablers of a sort.

That said, execute the fuckers post haste and move on.
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