So I finally broke down and called my Fundie parents to see what they thought of Palin.

[Lucky 13]

They aren't stupid people. They are college educated with high IQs. They are also hardcore Christian Fundies. I knew they'd love her religious and political views, but I really thought that she would insult their intelligence.

Today, curiosity finally got the better of me, so I called them.

My father said, "Well.... of the four of them... she's the only one I could MAYBE trust."

After picking my jaw up off the floor, I pointed out that she's an idiot and does not know who Hamas even is, couldn't name any Supreme Court decisions, and couldn't name any newspapers she read. He replied,

"Well... yeah... she has a lot to learn, but morally, she's the only one of the four of them that I trust. And she's an expert on energy. She really knows about oil and gas. These other guys don't have a clue to solve our energy problems."

I cut him off. I couldn't stand to hear anymore. He had repeated back the talking point. "She's an expert on energy." Un-fucking-believeable.

I told him to go online and watch all of the Katie Couric interview. Then I said I had to go.

They believe humans and dinosaurs coexisted.
They believe Jonah sat in the belly of a whale.
They believe Noah got two of every species and put them in a boat and floated around for 40 days.
They believe that the rapture and apocalypse will occur in their lifetime.

But it took believing in Sarah Palin for them to shock me.

I am shocked and dumbfounded and disappointed and infuriated.
:banghead:

[Snotcicles]

1. You have my sympathy. nt

[DS1]

2. She's an expert on energy because she takes oil dividends

:eyes:

I'm a recycling expert because I get 5 cents per bottle or can!

[Historic NY]

3. Should have asked about the Alaska Valdez if they thought she was an expert.

[islandmkl]

4. you 'could' be adopted....

just kidding

:evilgrin:

[Lucky 13]

26. if only.

[ClarkUSA]

5. How can they have high IQs and believe in such fairytales?

They must suffer from huge cognitive dissonance. They did raise a pretty smart kid, though. ;)

[Lucky 13]

27. Religious brainwashing.

They are unreachable.

[yourout]

6. Sometimes you can't erase the programming....

For some folks it just seems to be hardwired into their brain.

[babylonsister]

7. Here's a hug.

:hug: I feel for you. Your folks make my dad seem normal. And these are the people who will vote for that ticket because of Palin. That is scary, especially because they're educated.

[Lucky 13]

29. thx

They aren't rational people and are the subject of many a therapy session.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. How the hell do we know she's an energy expert? Because the liars say so? I say she's

Howdy Doody and Todd is Buffalo Bob.

[NRaleighLiberal]

9. I just went to TPM and watched that clip of Couric asking about other Supreme Court

Decisions. Nice followup to their brilliant 5 minute clip showing all of the Palin lowlights.

The fact that we are even discussing the possibility of this imbicile as VP makes me very, very sad, and very, very worried about our country. Gilligan's Island and the Munsters had more intellect in their plot and characters than Palin.

Biden must be wringing his hands wondering what he possibly will be responding to in the debate, as his opening statement will be meatier than the sum total of every word she has ever spoken!

So sorry to hear that your parents have been fooled by her and her ilk.

[NNN0LHI]

10. If you don't mind me asking about how old were your parents during the LSD craze of the 1960's?

I suspect something is afoot here.

Don

[Lucky 13]

23. HA!

My dad was born in '48 and mom in '54.

[NNN0LHI]

31. About the same age as me I was born in 55 so they were very likely Acid Heads in their youth

That explains a lot.

I actually witnessed a guy transform from a completely rational, normal person into a Jesus Freak. It happened right before my eyes in a matter of hours. He was talking to God all night long. I highly suspect your mama and daddy may have dropped some heavy duty Acid back then too. They probably wouldn't mention it if they did. They sound delusional. I would be very careful around them.


By the way the last time I seen that fellow he was shuffling down the street with a death grip on his Bible and was mumbling something to himself.

Don

[glinda]

40. Hey! I was born in 54!

Also....I am willing to "symbolically" adopt any of you who feel abandoned and alienated from your parents as I have no children. I think the people who say the sorts of things about Palin that you hear are having a "personal" reaction, feeling that they have to defend their "beliefs". It is in a sense a personal crisis or matter and I believe is based in egocentrism. I think the Country would do well by having this conversation.

[FatDave]

48. With all due respect...

Everybody I know who was ever an LSD enthusiast, myself included, is pretty fucking far from a being fundie.

[timtom]

60. And that would certainly include me.

And, if I ever get diagnosed as terminal, it's back to the psychedelics for some refresher time.

[crim son]

11. Truly sorry for you.

Just reading your story enraged me. :hug:

[CTyankee]

12. OK, well, you've got your answer, don't you!

This is too bad, but you can't expect whatyou can't get.

Don't be too upset. Recognize that it is what it is. Dig down a little bit to see if racism or something else is at the core of this belief. Then get back to me. I'd be interested in hearing from you!

[Lucky 13]

42. I don't think it's racism, it's religious brainwashing.

See I don't think they would ever vote for ANY democrat EVER for ANYTHING. The main thing that disqualifies him is that he's a Democrat and he's "liberal".

Now that's not to say they don't have underlying racist sentiments. It's right there, beneath the surface if you look for it.

If you asked them straight up if they are racist they would be really offended and will vehemently deny it. They "have black friends". There's some black fundie preacher they are all into. Two of their favorite politicians: Alan Keyes and JC Watts. They have said they would love to see JC Watts eventually run for President. So at least under certain circumstances they would not have a fundamental problem with electing a black president.

I've considered that some small voice in the back of their head may be whispering, "Maybe Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim!" And man do they hate Muslims. To them Islam is in inherently violent and evil and must be stopped. But I don't think they believe he's a muslim. They admit that many other Christians know him to be Christian, that he professes to be Christian, etc. And they very much acknowledge and respect people from other cultures who "come to Christ". They would consider it morally reprehensible to reject a Christian based on their skin color. Once you are born again, you are a brother in Christ. Period.

But to them IF Barack is a Christian, he ain't really living it, because if you are REALLY a Christian you are pro-life, pro-"traditional marriage", etc.

You see, it's ALL about the religion for them. It has trumped racism, classism, logic, and their relationship with their daughter. It's my fault for expecting more from them in this case, but I guess subconsciously I'm always hoping that they wake up one day.

[CTyankee]

61. The main reason I left Texas for good as a college student was

because it was such a racist place to live. I simply couldn't live with it any more, and I was only 18!

I cannot even talk to my b.i.l. or my s.i.l. And they are in a northern state (WI). So I can sympathize. I have been at these crossroads with family myself!

Good luck and keep on, keeping on!

[roody]

65. Racism is a basis of this cult.

A key pillar.

[SemperEadem]

67. so, let me get this straight:

But to them IF Barack is a Christian, he ain't really living it, because if you are REALLY a Christian you are pro-life, pro-"traditional marriage", etc.

Barack Obama has been married 16 years to the same woman and treats her with tenderness, kindness, and it's obvious he loves, honors and cherishes her and is faithful to her. Mclame, on the other hand, tossed over his first wife after she bore her illness (injury) by herself and waited for his return from a POW camp for a woman he chased while still married to his first wife and he broke his vows of loving, honoring, cherishing and remaining faithful until death to his first wife and he doesn't even treat his second with with tenderness, kindness---calling her a cvnt with a face painted up like a trollop---- and he considers that to be a good example of "pro-traditional marriage"?

[SemperEadem]

68. just so you know

You see, it's ALL about the religion for them. It has trumped racism, classism, logic, and their relationship with their daughter.

that's based on faith-based arrogance and pride.

Pride goes before destruction and the haughty spirit before the fall. They know where that little gem can be found in their bible.

[barbtries]

13. if you get a chance

maybe you could compile a list of her lies and backstabbing ways. trust her? trust her? no.

great newsweek article http://www.newsweek.com/id/160080/output/print
excerpt:

What is so unnerving about the candidacy of Sarah Palin is the degree to which she represents—and her supporters celebrate—the joyful marriage of confidence and ignorance. Watching her deny to Gibson that she had ever harbored the slightest doubt about her readiness to take command of the world's only superpower, one got the feeling that Palin would gladly assume any responsibility on earth:

"Governor Palin, are you ready at this moment to perform surgery on this child's brain?"

"Of course, Charlie. I have several boys of my own, and I'm an avid hunter."

"But governor, this is neurosurgery, and you have no training as a surgeon of any kind."

"That's just the point, Charlie. The American people want change in how we make medical decisions in this country. And when faced with a challenge, you cannot blink."

The prospects of a Palin administration are far more frightening, in fact, than those of a Palin Institute for Pediatric Neurosurgery. Ask yourself: how has "elitism" become a bad word in American politics? There is simply no other walk of life in which extraordinary talent and rigorous training are denigrated. We want elite pilots to fly our planes, elite troops to undertake our most critical missions, elite athletes to represent us in competition and elite scientists to devote the most productive years of their lives to curing our diseases. And yet, when it comes time to vest people with even greater responsibilities, we consider it a virtue to shun any and all standards of excellence. When it comes to choosing the people whose thoughts and actions will decide the fates of millions, then we suddenly want someone just like us, someone fit to have a beer with, someone down-to-earth—in fact, almost anyone, provided that he or she doesn't seem too intelligent or well educated.

i give you props for making the call. i don't have it in me to hear that from my right wing older brother and sister. it's too hard to understand HOW they could take the position that is so clearly wrong.

[sarcasmo]

14. How sad for them and it's even more sad for you. I feel your pain.

[marlakay]

15. Obviously all they care about is the religious part of it

so find the proof about her affair and proof about both of her kids on drugs and sleeping around.

[SheilaT]

16. With all due respect,

I need to express some doubts about the high IQs of your parents. Where did they go to college? Clearly they did not learn ANY critical thinking skills.

Point out that Ms Moral Palin was pregnant when she got married (don't bother to mention the daughter, because that's truly not at issue) and some of the outright lies she's been telling. Isn't there a Commandment that weighs in on telling the truth?

I realize none of that will change their minds, but I have no respect whatsoever for the intellect of people who believe the kind of garbage they believe.

More to the point, how did you learn to think for yourself? Why did you not wind up like them?

[Lucky 13]

24. My dad has an Masters Degree in Civil Engineering from Texas A&M

When it comes to math, physics, hydrodynamics, etc - he is in many ways brilliant. My mom never graduated college, but took some classes at Community College and George Mason University. Her parents didn't believe women had any need to attend college and it was therefore a waste of money.

I understand the kneejerk reaction is to write them off as stupid. But it's not so much stupidity as it is brainwashing or delusion.

Here's what their reply would be to your comments...

"What happened in her private life so many years ago is no one's business. We all make mistakes. We all sin against God. She has accepted Christ and Christ forgives her."

How did I end up different? I went to public school, went to the magnet high school for nerdy kids, and escaped to the wide world of college. I was the first born so they made all their mistakes with me. My sister was subsequently homeschooled, then attended Liberty University, married a preacher, and is getting her Ph.D. in Christian Counseling or some shit. I don't know how I ended up different. That is the topic of many therapy sessions. Oh and I'm a lesbian and am currently taking a Master's level course in Evolution. Go figure.

[immoderate]

35. My impression is a lot of engineers are fundies, as opposed to scientists...

(and certainly artists) who are more likely to be rational freethinkers. This doesn't mean every one, but that's my experience.

Maybe you should look at Michael Shermer's book, Why Smart People Believe weird Things."

--IMM

[babylonsister]

38. Damn.

My stepson and his wife found their religion in the past 2 years ( have no idea where they're going, but he sends DVDs trying to convince us to embrace Christ); he's 36. And they just started homeschooling their oldest son (out of 3). I was afraid for him and now I know why.

His mom is doing the teaching and never went to college, not that that's a prerequisite from what I understand, but I worry.

[SheilaT]

62. But, but,

your father has a degree in civil engineering, he's brilliant in math, physics, etc. and be really believes fundy crap?

Sigh. Actually, I personally know another engineer (not sure what branch, kind of think it's more a general, all-purpose engineering degree) who is also quite the fundamentalist christian.

And clearly the reason you ended up different from your sister is that you went to public school and the magnet high school. Sis was home schooled and then with Liberty University never had a chance to break away from the brain washing.

One of my several schools was also George Mason University.

[Fuzz]

17. So sorry. I had the opposite experience with my fundy father, and for that

I'm so happy.

[Selatius]

18. Hate to sound crass, but IQs mean shit if you throw them in the garbage in favor of religious dogma.

Your parents have my sympathy.

[Lucky 13]

25. Agreed. It's like being in a cult.

They are as brainwashed as these crazy Scientologists. Probably more so.

[mikita]

19. I'm so sorry ....

I don't have the courage to call my brothers.

Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time....

[yardwork]

20. That's too bad. It must be very difficult for you.

It's hard for me to fathom how anyone could consider Sarah Palin to be "moral" when she lies all the time, destroys the environment, and tortures animals in the name of profit. That's not my kind of morality.

Obviously, your parents have a completely different set of values. I know some other folks who are still convinced that the chimp is a godly man, despite his many flaws. They would never consider voting for a Democrat. I guess they're brainwashed.

[rgbecker]

21. I feel for you. My parents: Racist bigots who loved Goldwater.

Republicans thru and thru. Used to talk about the Democrats like they came from Hell. College degrees, successful suburbanites, couldn't understand why everyone couldn't be just like them: hard working, pulled themselves up by the bootstrap type A, anti-socialists, anti- communists. Blah, blah blah. oh yeah and anti-semite to boot. YIKES! Dad, 95, actually voted for John Edwards in the primary because he knew it wasn't going to be a republican after Bush's 8 years and Dad sure didn't want a colored or a woman in there. Haven't heard what he thinks of Palin on the ticket. I think that is why his health has taken a turn for the worse since August. He must be in total agony.

[DevonRex]

22. We must be related. Surely there couldn't be too many families

out there like this. Oh. Wait. I guess there are.

But stop beating your head against the wall. You know that nothing will change their minds.

I'm scared to death to go home for a wedding right after the election because I don't want to get ganged up on again like I was the LAST time I went home for a wedding. It was so awful that I left in tears. Well, actually I didn't. I held it together long enough for my husband and I to get in the rental car and drive away. Then I broke down.

It was so embarassing to have my husband witness their loony right wing wackoism and their blatant racism and their flat out stupidity, not to mention their downright weird fundy interpretation of the Bible. I was horrified.

I know what you're going through and I'll include sending good thoughts to you tonight before I go to bed. Hang in there.

[progressivebydesign]

28. Guess your folks are comfortable with adultering fornicators like Palin. n/t

[hfojvt]

30. they shouldn't believe in the two of every animal and the forty days

After all, it says in Genesis 7: 2 "You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; also seven each of birds of the air, ..."

and then in Genesis 7: 24 "and the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred fifty days."

also it says in Genesis 7: 11 that the big gulp of rain began in the 600th year of Noah's life in the 2nd month on the 17th day, and then in Genesis 8: 14 that they left the ark in the 601st year in the 2nd month on the 27th day. So, they were in the ark for one year and 10 days. That's a lot of provisions and a lot of work for Ham to clean the bottom of the ark :P

[Prophet 451]

32. My sympathies

I'm honestly starting to believe that fundementalism is the first documented infectious mental illness.

[1776Forever]

33. They are not alone - Was told by a 60 year-old Veteran she is the only one he would vote for!

They are out there. Those that don't read the papers - don't listen to Cable TV - don't blog or read the posts we so fervently post! It is hard to believe that these people are so hood-winked, but they are! This Vet I spoke to said he had 4 boys who had been in service in Iraq and Afghanistan. Such a shame that they are lied too and will never know just how wrong they were. Only good thing he told me was that he was not going to vote for anyone this year. So be it - I would rather he not vote the vote for McCain/Palin.

[Gregorian]

34. I'm so sorry.

I can't even imagine. My parents are in their mid 80's, and yet they are just as up on everything as I am. They even watch the Daily Show every single night. I've had that all of my life. And I took it for granted.

It must be tough for you. But to think that you have found your way despite your upbringing. That's a real accomplishment. And you have us as friends. And you have reality on your side.

Oh well. We're all in the same boat. If it isn't our parents, it's the rest of the country.

[unblock]

36. just tell them to remember to vote on november 5th.

:evilgrin:

[morillon]

37. This expert on energy shit I just don't get.

But I'm an engineering school "elitist," so I guess that means I'm out of touch with America.

She reminds me a lot of the idiots who lived in my dorm at school who probably couldn't even SPELL petroleum, much less understand what it actually IS. If she were a chemical engineer or a geologist or an economist or, hell, even someone who admits to reading newspapers, maybe I'd buy that she is an expert on energy.

[Bjorn Against]

39. But she can see an oil well from her house so she must be an expert!

And after seeing that pile of rocks in Siberia she became an expert on foreign policy.

[Waiting For Everyman]

41. Interesting logic - to trust a Christian who doesn't mind lying continually.

No offense, but there is a severe integrity problem with people who are ok with that.

[Canuckistanian]

43. I see this Palinmania as the last refuge of fundies

Their whole philosophical world is crumbling around them.

Pastor Ted's gay. Falwell is gone. The "Reagan Revolution" is dead as far as real-world results.

"Focus on the Family" is a powerless, impotent joke.

Suddenly, they see a shining light in the form of a hockey mom from Alaska. Halleluja! The Chosen One!
Bummer that she's a woman, but, hey.... any port in a storm.....

It's basically like a Titanic victim, floating in the Atlantic, suddenly finding a deckchair.

[marew]

44. It is amazing how intelligence is suspended! Unfrigging believable!

I have an MS. I have a friend who has an MS. She is a fundie who believe people and dinosaurs coexisted and the earth is only a few thousand years old. I asked her how she could believe that, carbon dating and all? She actually said, "The great flood chemically changed everything on earth to make it look much older than it is." I was speechless. Haven't talked to her since. Just can't.

[A HERETIC I AM]

45. Look at it this way....

You can claim to have totally and completely disproved the adage "The apple never falls far from the tree".

Seems to me you fell pretty far away.

[Lucky 13]

46. I'm a lesbian studying evolutionary biology.... so yeah.

[codjh9]

51. Hah! Yeah, that's pretty far from the tree in multiple respects. Unfortunately for me,

my surviving brother (we lost my oldest brother several years ago) is just the opposite from you: our dad was a political science professor, a big-time liberal, and my brother is a brainwashed fundamentalist! And the one I lost was basically a moderate. So it's kind of interesting one Left, one Right, and one in the middle.

[LiberalAndProud]

47. She's an expert on energy because

she's the governor of a oil state. It's as believable as foreign policy expertise born of proximity to Russia.

McCain named her because he wanted a woman and he chose an arm ornament. Too bad for him.

[Imagevision]

49. umm...call them back and ask them if they were better off 8 years ago?

[bertman]

53. Imagevision, that may NOT be the deal breaker. I am way better off than I was eight years ago--if

you mean financially, but that's because I'm in an area that is STILL doing ok. We are the lucky ones. Depends on what you do and where you do it.

[codjh9]

50. I laughed out loud at the first statement your dad made. Again, you are to be commended

for Seeing the Light, my friend!

[sakabatou]

52. ::facepalm::

I have a site that may cheer you up... or depress you:

http://fstdt.com/fundies/Default.aspx?archive=1

[Swamp Rat]

54. Here ya go:

:D

[Jim Lane]

55. The silver lining in this cloud

I have no words of cheer for your family situation -- just joining the others who understand your pain and wish you the best.

The silver lining concerns the overall picture. McCain picked Palin partly because she's a woman but also partly because he needed to placate the fundie wing of the Republican Party, which doesn't really trust him. He felt a need to go to the extreme right wing of the party for a running mate. The commentators opined that this move would help solidify the base, and your conversation with your parents confirms that view.

BUT... your parents were almost certainly going to vote Republican anyway.

McCain would have a much better chance right now if he'd picked Tom Ridge (more time governing a bigger state, plus federal cabinet experience at Homeland Security) or Joe Lieberman (showing he can walk the walk of reaching across party lines, and helping him appeal to the people who think "partisan" is a dirty word). Fortunately for us, the Religious Right wouldn't accept a pro-choice running mate. Thus, in lieu of a real shot at winning over swing voters, McCain gets a higher comfort factor from folks like your parents. Meanwhile, swing voters who've seen the Gibson or Couric interviews seem to be swinging our way.

I don't know if this perspective will help you cut down on the therapy bills, but you should be glad that McCain decided to cater to the voting bloc that includes your parents.

[B Calm]

56. Do you think Palin will bring her African Pentecostal Pastor to the debate?

He could stand behind her with his hand on her head dispelling witchcraft spells!

[OakCliffDem]

57. Kick

[Skidmore]

58. How do they feel about that learning on the job stuff * is doing?

If they aren't happy with *, then I doubt they will be happy with Sarah Sunshine.

[beac]

59. "They believe that the rapture and apocalypse will occur in their lifetime."

Well, if Caribou Barbie gets her finger on the button, they are likely going to be right-- at least about the Apocalypse part.


Anyway, cheers to you for managing to fall far away from the poisoned tree of your family!

[roody]

63. It's a cult. My family is the same. Bummer.

[ColbertWatcher]

64. "She really knows about oil and gas" That is such a condi answer.

The GOP touted Rice as this Soviet expert despite there not being a Soviet Union any more.

So, now the GOP are going to tout Palin's "oil & gas experience" in a world that is moving away from oil and gas?

WTF!?

[SemperEadem]

66. ask your dad if he's for affirmative action

and if he says no, then ask him why he is for Palin, because she's the equivalent of an affirmative action hire, the kind the thugs love to hate.

[LatteLibertine]

69. People that are somewhat like her are going to support her

There's not much that can be done, except hope they are too lazy to vote. :)

[Liberalatus]

70. I'm sorry to hear this..

I have the same situation. There are 2 factors at work, and both are the equivalent of brainwashing. The Neo-conservatives have learned how to take their political view, hijack and marry it with Christianity. They have issued and declared the propaganda for nearly 40 years that Republican = Christian. No matter the IQ, the easiest way of getting around a person's rational conscious mind, is to speak to their deepest religious beliefs, which are even more powerful than just arousing their emotions. A person has virtually no defense for those type of tactics, other than hard skepticism and cynicism, which, as a Christian myself, hate to say, but that is not a trait found in most hardcore, religious people. Therefore, they are the most succeptible.

The other factor, which is almost the other side of that coin, is the demonization of Liberalism. Both in a religious context, and a patriotic context. The same factors are at work here. Republicans bypass the rational mind, appeal to a person's ego and emotions, and claim a monopoly on Patriotism, and liberalism simply is not being patriotic to your country. They use anger and fear, the strongest emotions, maybe even easier to identify with than love, to indoctrinate people with the idea that liberalism is bad for the country, and is exactly what is wrong and evil with it. I remember growing up, with them telling me every time a civilization let Liberalism run rampant, it spelled the doom of that civilization. Rome, for example. It is the inevitibility of moving away from God. And the icing on the cake, is they have created a cult, where only THEIR media, and THEIR information can be trusted. Everything else, and everyone else, is either ignorant, because they are getting their information from a "liberally biased" source, or are deliberately trying to manipulate you through lies and misinformation, because they are evilly liberal. So, they are heavily swayed NEVER to vote for any Liberal, even if they vote against their own interests, or disagree completely with everything the non-liberal candidate has to say.

I have no idea how to combat such a strong influence. I honestly don't know if you can get them out using logic and rationale. But, if you emotionally or spiritually manipulate them, you will be no better than the Republicans. The first thing is explain how their source of information is the most biased media that exists. You have to break the hold their media has on them. Then, you can reach their rational side by discrediting the idea that ONLY Republicans are Christians and Patriots. Get any example of all the things Liberals have done to make this country great, and WHY they are better for the country. And how Liberal views are actually more representative of Biblical morals and values than Republican. The best thing is get a dialogue going. You have YEARS of brainwashing, and bad logic to sift through and repudiate, not to mention the "diaper syndrome"(I used to change your diapers, therefore I will always know more than you). I have been going back and forth with my family for years, the past 8 years has helped my case with them greatly. Only after years of open discussion with them. Every year, it seems like I make more progress, and hopefully someday you will get there with your family as well. All of us here.