"Obsession" DVD mailed to my home! Any lawyers here?

[OHDEM]

I can't bring myself to watch it, but I know what's in it from stories on the internet. It's NR, but says "Due to graphic footage, this film is suggested for ages 18 and over only. Doesn't that make it OBSCENE material mailed to my home where I have 2 small children?!? This is the same movie that motivates some backwards rednecks in my state to attack muslims!

Sorry, but I'm so pissed right now that this PROPAGANDA is being mailed to people's homes right now. It is truly sick! Isn't there any action we can take against them? It was mailed out by The Clarion Fund, 255 W. 36th Street, Suite 800, New York, NY 10018. Can we bomb them with mail? File a lawsuit? Criminal charges?

[Kookaburra]

1. "Return to Sender"

Scratch out your name and address, and write return to sender on it and drop it in a mail box.

If enough people do it, that'll get the point across.

[soulcore]

2. Wrap a brick with the return label...

Then "return to sender".

THEY get to pay for postage. ;)

[Realityhack]

13. no they don't. That is just mean to the post office employees. n/t

[onethatcares]

3. they put ours in with the sunday paper.

damn, nice of the st pete times to spread a hate message. I wonder what they paid to do it. money doesn't talk it screams.

[OHDEM]

4. Sounds like it's time to cancel your subscription.

I'm going to write to the Cleveland Plain Dealer and let them know that's just what I'll do if I get another copy of this smut in their paper. I'm SO angry right now...

Thanks for all the suggestions! You're all obviously thinking more clearly than I.

[G_j]

14. absolutely nt

[Gwendolyn]

5. People who didn't read Harry Potter wanted that book banned too.

:)


Even though it's propaganda the content of that film is protected by the First Amendment. There are people who would like to see anything that is published by Gay/Lesbian organizations, feminists, pro-choice proponents banned as well. Not to mention Harry Potter as its sole purpose, according to some, is to turn children away from God and toward Satanic cultures. Where does it end?

That flick has been around for years, you can watch it on youtube and google. Nothing in it hasn't been done to DEATH in every rightwinger corner of the country. There's far worse to be found on tons of internet sites.

There is nothing at this point to tie it directly to that pepper spray crime at the Mosque in Dayton. For all anyone knows, resentment had been fomenting for ages. Plenty of people apparently didn't want the mosque built in the first place. It's possible that someone wanted to make a statement during Ramadan and the DVD mailing is coincidental. Hell, it could be someone's personal vendetta against someone in the mosque. No one knows yet. If you don't like that someone is using your newspaper for propaganda purposes, by all means, write an email, but lawsuit? Criminal charges? Umm no.

[OHDEM]

6. I can watch it & be sickened later when my kids are in bed...

but I know what's in it already. Sorry, but I think this is a bit more serious than children's books.

Also this wasn't in my paper - it was mailed to my home with my husband's name on it. Sending obscene material thru the mail is a crime I believe. I'm all for the 1st amendment, but I draw the line at having this type of thing put in people's mail & newspapers. I'm also curious about who is funding this & if they deserve their tax exempt status.

[Gwendolyn]

7. There are no naked bodies in it.

So technically it isn't obscene.

What constitutes propaganda is in the eye of the beholder. Would you like to see gay/lesbian/feminist organizations from getting their message out. People find their material "obscene."

Song lyrics, movies, tv programs, books... all of these mediums can be accused of promoting propaganda of some sort. Even the History Channel is guilty of it depending on who you talk to.

[OHDEM]

9. Naked isn't the only thing that might be considered obscene.

I respect your take on this, but I'm deeply offended by this showing up in my mailbox.

[stillcool]

8. Of course there is far worse..

but do you get it in your mailbox? I am amazed that people are okey-dokey with being bombarded with propaganda.

[Gwendolyn]

11. I've gotten religious propaganda in the mail...

...and in fact they come to my door on Saturday mornings in person, which is COMPLETELY unacceptable to me.

As I said, of course you can pressure the newspapers in your town to stop carrying that kind of thing, and that's fine. But lawsuits and criminal charges are way over the top and the next step toward fascism.

What is the basis for a lawsuit? Bad cover design?

[stillcool]

16. What is the basis for Julius Streicher...

being executed for crimes against humanity?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Streicher.html
D. CONCLUSION.

It may be that Streicher is less directly involved in the physical commission of the crimes against Jews than some of his coconspirators. The submission of the Prosecution is that his crime is no less worse for that reason. No government in the world, before the Nazis came to power, could have embarked upon and it; into effect a policy of mass Jewish extermination in the way in which they did, without having a people who would back them and support them, and without having a large number of people who were prepared to carry out the murder themselves. (See Chapter XII on Persecution of the Jews.)

It was to the task of educating and poisoning the people with hate, and of producing murderers, that Streicher set himself. For 25 years he continued unrelentingly the perversion of the people and youth of Germany. He went on and on, as he saw the results of his work bearing fruit.

In the early days he was preaching persecution. As persecution took place he preached extermination and annihilation and, as millions of Jews were exterminated and annihilated, in the Ghettos of the East, he cried out for more and more.
--------------------------------------------

In its extent Streicher's crime is probably greater and more far-reaching than that of any of the other defendants. The misery which they caused ceased with their capture. The effects of this man's crime, of the poison that he has put into the minds of millions of young boys and girls goes on, for he concentrated upon the youth and childhood of Germany. He leaves behind him a legacy of almost a whole people poisoned with hate, sadism, and murder, and perverted by him. That people remain a problem and perhaps a menace to the rest of civilization for generations to come.

[Gwendolyn]

20. This thread is about a particular DVD isn't it?

Not the Bush/Cheney admin policies.

[stillcool]

22. and so?

at what point should they stop sending the DVD's in the mail? After 10 Muslims, 100 Muslims, 1000 Muslims are harmed?

[Gwendolyn]

24. Who has been harmed?

Please point me in the direction of some info?

The Ben Stein flick Expelled proposed that Darwin's work influenced Hitler to mass murder, ergo teaching Evolution is "bad." He is quoted as saying that "Science leads to killing people." Shouldn't we have shut him up? Weren't we worried that great harm would befall scientists as a result of that propaganda piece?

[Sebastian Doyle]

Guess you didn't hear about the mosque that was GASSED in Ohio?

After this hate propaganda DVD had been circulated in the area.

This is nazi style propaganda. And the sickest irony is that those who are behind this video are the last people on the planet who should be employing Nazi tactics. http://www.emetonline.org/

[Gwendolyn]

28. Yes, I did read about it.

They found the pepper spray can today. See my earlier post. Have they caught the people responsible? Do they know for a fact this DVD drove someone into a frothing rage, or was someone pissed about the fact that a mosque was built in the first place? Was it something else? Do you know?

People love to get out the pitchforks and torches without having the facts in hand. I thought that was a republican trait.

ps. My family is German and I have lots of German relatives. Your references to Nazis might harm them if some crazed loon decides to go on a rampage against Germans based on what you've written.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gwendolyn]

35. Lol at you calling me a freeper...

...why because I believe in freedom of speech and am not ready to get out my pitchfork at every editorial that gets passed around the internet? I think that makes me the opposite of a freeper. I think for myself, and am happy there are many like me.

By your logic any criticism of any ethnic or religious group is enough to drive people into a murderous rage.

[stillcool]

30. Do you need a certain number of casualties...

before you are willing for anything to be done to stop those who spew hatred? How do you think this kind of shit starts? Do you see no relation between cause and effect?

Muslim Children Gassed at Dayton Mosque After "Obsession" DVD Hits Ohio Hotlist
by Chris Rodda
Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 08:50:29 PM PDT


On Friday, September 26, the end of a week in which thousands of copies of Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West -- the fear-mongering, anti-Muslim documentary being distributed by the millions in swing states via DVDs inserted in major newspapers and through the U.S. mail -- were distributed by mail in Ohio, a "chemical irritant" was sprayed through a window of the Islamic Society of Greater Dayton, where 300 people were gathered for a Ramadan prayer service. The room that the chemical was sprayed into was the room where babies and children were being kept while their mothers were engaged in prayers. This, apparently, is what the scare tactic political campaigning of John McCain's supporters has led to -- Americans perpetrating a terrorist attack against innocent children on American soil.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/28/203016/697

[Gwendolyn]

32. If you're asking me..

I already answered that twice. See above your post.

The point is, if you shut one group of people up, you have to shut everyone up. And that's the worst thing that can happen.

I hope those people get caught, and I also hope the people who set fire to that UK publisher's office/home to keep a novel from getting published are also apprehended.

[stillcool]

36. Okay..so you have no problem..

with people inciting hatred and violence. Good for you. I guess you get videos everyday attacking Catholics, Jews, Christian Fundamentalists, gays, liberals, blacks and latino's. Divide and Conquer..it's the American way! God forbid someone should promote 'we the people'. Then we might actually have a say in our government. But no...get your hate on against your fellow Americans!

[Gwendolyn]

37. Where did I say that?

I see Fundies get slammed on here all the time. I've received material in the mail telling me I'm going to burn for eternity if I don't believe in Jesus. I get slammed for being a liberal everyday at work. I've read reams of crap about gay people. And that Obsession vid is absolutely tame compared to what's spewed on the internet.

Do you want someone to take away your freedom to say what you like? If the majority of Americans don't believe in gay marriage because it "undermines the family" should you be stifled because other people find your POV "obscene?"

It's very idealistic what you say, but the truth is, freedom of speech applies to everyone. And freedom of speech is what allows you to complain to newspapers, write editorials, gather in the streets to protest. It's what gives you a say in your government.

[stillcool]

38. Freedom of Speech?

We have lost our freedom of speech, and have gladly ceded it to those who have the money and the power to promote hate speech and propaganda. You can sit back and defend it, but I myself would rather defend the human rights of all people who live in this country to be free to be who they are, without fear of being gassed, strung up, or beaten to death.

[Gwendolyn]

39. We have given away a lot, you're right.

Which is why I cling to what's left.

As far as that DVD goes, the president of the board of that particular mosque has already said they aren't linking it to what happened. That's good enough for me, until someone proves otherwise. People are on death row because people make assumptions based on emotions.

This weekend, at the same time that awful thing happened at the mosque, three people tried to burn someone's house down for publishing a romance novel about Mohammed. The US co-publishers closed their offices for fear of violence. It's very idealistic to think that there isn't going to be any criticism at all regarding that incident. And that's what that DVD is all about...they're within their rights to promote their POV. People are also free to throw it away unwatched.

I know it was meant to bolster the McCain campaign and it sucks. But the way I see it, it was sent to fence sitters and dems who are bright enough to see it for what it is. The yahoos who buy into propaganda of that kind are lost causes anyway.

[stillcool]

41. Sorry...I don't see it that way..

I wouldn't feel to good about the KKK or the Neo-Nazi's sending out videos either. I'd probably go as far as to try and stop it. Its fine that you're okay with it. I'm not.

[Realityhack]

15. Setting aside the issue of this particular piece of mail...

There ARE standards of decency that must be upheld in public free speech. You can not mail a porno to every home on your block.

Wither this violates those boundaries is the real question. I am not familiar with it.

[OHDEM]

10. I wonder who is funding this.

It would be cool to send mail DIRECTLY to those behind this trash! Maybe even picket their places of business because you just know that they are rich Repubs who will stoop to anything to win.

[Gwendolyn]

18. It's funded by various sources...

tying back to an Israeli organization, under the name of The Clarion Fund. If you look around the address is listed in one of the threads posted here.

I've read where the cost of this insert was estimated at anywhere between $15-30 million, so there's a lot of money behind it. And money speaks when it comes to advertising revenue. Money also speaks when enough people write their newspapers to complain.

It's revolting to me too, but the right to freedom of speech trumps the personal convictions of people.

[Romulox]

12. It's not legally obscene. nt

[Realityhack]

17. This addresses the real issue. Thanks n/t

[Romulox]

19. No problem. Google "Miller test" for additional reading, if you're curious. nt

[Catherine Vincent]

21. Why a lawyer?

It's not like the dvd shows Janet Jackson's tit or anything. :-)

[OHDEM]

23. Thanks for the chuckle!

I guess it goes back to the American idea of obscenity - female breasts are bad, but violent propaganda is a-ok!

[liberal1973]

25. Interesting...

This is essentially like spamming. The Clarion Fund are clearly far right un-American extremist.

What they are doing is like burning a cross in a person's front yard.

The right wing propaganda and the hate phone calls people on here reported show just how much the right hate Americans.:smoke:

[OHDEM]

27. What can we do about it?

I would love to organize an action to get some attention for the losers that did this.

[Quantess]

26. Did it come with your newspaper?

Such as the one I found tucked into The Oregonian, delivered to my home?
The Oregonian wrote a defense of their decision to accept the advertisement from Clarion Fund. They said they want to keep their pool of advertisers as unlimited as possible, so as not to alienate any advertisers (something to that effect).

[OHDEM]

29. So instead they alienate readers.

Sickening! Would they have taken it if there was nudity instead of violence?

[Quantess]

31. Well, they apparently got a barrage of LTTE's complaining about it.

They even printed several of them. It looked like the opposition letters to the DVD insert far outnumbered the positive letters.

But, I doubt there was anything illegal about mailing these out to people. Annoying, yes definitely. Illegal, I doubt it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. You've Got To Be Kidding...

And the melodrama of the week award goes tooooooooooooooo

drum roll........

[Iggo]

40. You can keep it, or you can send it back...

...or you can throw/give it away.

But you don't have to pay for it.

[susanbanks44]

42. Burn it.

[Initech]

43. Yes, it is fun to burn things.

I would do that if I got that piece of shit in the mail too.

[1]

44. i don't abide with the "burning of books." if you don't want to view this, break it up and toss it.

i have not received this dvd (yet.) but i, like the op have a real good idea about it's contents and i would refuse to watch it. i would bust it up in little pieces and toss it in the trash.

(and don't go all "harry potter" on me. if a hollywood movie call "murder! mayhem! killing!" premiers i won't watch that either. i don't watch or read everything shown or published. i pick and choose. i don't feel any obligation to take it all in.)

and i believe any thinking human being acts in a similar manner. they either completely reject the offer, or upon watching for a few minutes accept or reject content based on what they already believe.

this dvd will convince or repel no one that doesn't already have their own mind set.

fuck this dvd.



its the "we must suppress thoughts that disagree with our thoughts from being released" mentality on du that scares me more. we are supposed to be the democrats. the "shut these ideas down" shit is so republican it is scary.

if you are that afraid of these thoughts converting the populous over (ridiculous), then release your own dvd debunking them (or do it on youtube.) how hard is that?

but if an idea? a thought? scares you so much you need to stomp it out with legal action? stop it from ever being heard?

you might just want to rethink your party affiliation... your actions are wrong. and vile.





we don't suppress ideas, we encourage ideas. we show the ignorance of certain ideas and promote the wisdom of other ideas. we are not the party of lawsuits and suppression and hiding. we are the party of openness and ideas and discussion.

they can say what they say. that's what they do. our job is to present the truth. the truth will win. when you start to play the "i don't want them to say" card and bring lawsuits to prevent them, they just start to point fingers about us being in hiding.

i don't know. i'm probably wrong. that's what i think. take it or leave it. emotions and all.

i love all of you guys and gals (oops) but i do.


carry on...

[Gwendolyn]

46. I didn't say it well. You did. Thank you.

:)

[young_at_heart]

45. What do the Republicans have to say about this thing?

Surely they must be horrified at such an obscene message?