The American people need to take responsibility for this mess too.

[Avalux]

I'd love to blame it all on Wall Street fat cats and deregulating Repukes.

Truth is - average Americans are just as greedy and has been living beyond their means for years. The majority are living on credit cards, have mortgaged homes (McMansions) and have taken out loans on cars they can't afford. All of this as a response to the constant deluge of advertising telling us how we are supposed to live. Here you go! You need this! Buy this! We'll give you a great deal!

If Americans were able to say NO once in awhile and not be so easily manipulated, if they were able to differentiate between wants and needs; companies might not be profiting off bad deals. They may not be in business and we may not have this crisis. Americans want and want and want; they give and look where we are.

I think it's time we all do a gut check and reevaluate our lives. I certainly am.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Those who voted for Chimp do. Most certainly.

[Oregone]

2. Truth is - average Americans are a biproduct of social conditioning.

:)

What do they learn in school?

What do they see on TV?

What do their banks tell them? The media? The newspapers? Their get rich quick books and know it all uncles?

People have always been stupid, like leaves blowing in the wind. If we left it up to people forever, we would always have problems like this. Hell, we would never need banks...just boxes of fill-in IOUs that anyone can grab when they want a shiny new red car. Banks vet people, to ensure they are a good investment. Banks stopped vetting people to maximize profits. That's what happened.

[Karenina]

16. Recommended viewing: The Century of the Self

Adam Curtis BBC. This is an excellent 4 part series that explores how mass manipulation works for Big Bidness AND politics. It's available on YouTube.

[Locrian]

18. great series

Also on Google Video

Highly recommended if you want to understand how we are constantly manipulated.

[blue neen]

3. Sorry, I'm not taking responsibility for this mess.

Our family has no credit card debt, lives in a modest middle-class home, and has 1 car loan with only 5 payments left.

I have lived responsibly. Why can't Wall Street do the same?

Fooey.

This family also did not vote for George Bush and actively worked on the John Kerry and Barack Obama campaigns.

Stop blaming the real victims.

[Avalux]

5. I said the American people as a whole.

I don't have any debt either, but I do spend more than I should on frivolous items.

[bdamomma]

4. this is a wake up call to all of us.

[avaistheone1]

31. The Mortgage Brokers Association paints a different picture of what is going on

than the original premise of this thread.

According to the Mortgage Brokers Association;
A drop in income — whether through a lost job, divorce, death of a spouse or health problems — is the No. 1 reason people fall behind on their mortgages and lose their homes. But mortgage defaults and foreclosures in many areas, especially California and Florida, can also be tied to egregious lending practices and rampant speculation by homebuilders and small investors alike...

What’s driving up the delinquency rate now is the number of homeowners with risky adjustable-rate prime loans made with little or no proof of the borrowers’ income or assets.

http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/784433.html


There you have it.

I do I agree there are some people who are irresponsible, and who have been using their home like a cash register to live big, but I don't think that is the case for most people who are in trouble with mortgages.

[Diogenes2]

6. Your concept of the "average" American...

is way, way above the economic average.
"McMansion" my a*s... your rant sounds like a bunch of special pleading straight from Wall Street to Main Street.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. Absolutely. I'd Say Half Of Those In Mortgage Trouble Knew What They Were Getting Themselves Into,

but instead acted irresponsibly and with a mindset of "it'll all work out. I don't have to work hard and save. Look at this sweet mortgage deal, I can get this huge house now with no effort at all!".

They absolutely are a huge part of the blame. Their recklessness has now affected us all.

[Greyhound]

20. and as usual, you'd be wrong.

Well over half are the result of illness and job loss. Look it up.

Oh wait, you don't deal with facts, you "work from your gut".
:eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. Got Links?

Thanks.

[johnaries]

8. We have to take responsibility, but not the blame.

We have to be responsible to fix this mess, but we are not the reason for the mess except for the ones who actually swallowed the "Trickle-down Supply-side" bullshit.

But it is up to us to be the responsible ones and fix it.

[Realityhack]

10. The policies that deregulated the markets were enacted by elected officials.

Not all of us voted that way but enough did. As a group we are partly to blame.

[Realityhack]

9. I agree with your statement but not your reasons.

Yes those are all bad things. We need to learn to say no but that is not what created this particular mess.

Voting for people who favor deregulation did. As a people we are to blame for that.

[Avalux]

11. A lot of things created this mess.

And voting against our best interests (as a whole) is a big one.

[rucky]

12. We have been, and are the first to sacrifice.

But we won't be the only ones.

[Naturyl]

13. Thank you. This very much needed to be said. (n/t)

[Captiosus]

14. You're right...

Clearly it's the average American's fault that the Fed under Greenspan pushed ARMs for the "good of the economy".

Clearly it's the average American's fault that when they went to look for a house the only mortgages banks would offer were ARMs with false promises about real estate appreciation and refinancing.

Clearly it's the average American's fault that deregulated banks started offering credit cards to anyone with a pulse, making false promises about interest rates and fees. Not just credit cards, either - this also applies to auto loans.

:eyes:

There's more than enough evidence that banks were actively engaging in predatory lending with the Treasury looking the other way. Banks were acting like Mob bosses offering consumers "offers they couldn't refuse".

You seem to think that people with credit card debt only have that debt because they're buying frivolous items. I should introduce you to my neighbor who has no choice but to buy groceries on his credit card because he's been laid off, his unemployment ran out, Virginia only gives him 73 dollars a MONTH in food stamps and doesn't qualify for medicaid or any job retraining benefits.

Is he living beyond his means? Hell yes. But if he doesn't, he starves because the Government doesn't give a rat's ass and the job market around here is toasty - even fast food places have taken down 'now hiring' signs. Now all he's hearing on the news, when he gets a chance to hear it, is that the same Government who doesn't give a rat's ass about him or the millions like him want to drop 700 billion in taxpayer money to try to right this problem without addressing anything that would help folks in his situation become economically productive members of society. Guess how well that is going over.

Take your trickle-down blame somewhere else.

[crickets]

15. Thank you. -nt

[Hydra]

26. Thanks for saying it

Too many people pointing fingers in random directions...just like every other scandal under this administration.

The fingers need to point straight to the top. 9/11, The Iraq War, The Torture, The Spying ALL CAME FROM THE TOP. This is no different.

We didn't want this, we didn't vote these people in, and we didn't make this possible. Deal with it.

[Locrian]

17. well duh

Well you are right of course. But thats kinda like saying water is wet.

I mean - I hope you agree that given main street's predilection for shiny new McMansions etc that we need to regulate how loans are made and how greed at the top exploits this?


http://www.bringhonorback.org/subprime_primer/

[Liberal Dose]

19. I know several people whose rate of pay has not kept up with the faster cost of living increases

These people have had to resort to credit or die. I know a few others who have had health issues and been on short term disability. While they fought with the insurance company to get the claim approved, they had to resort to credit or die. This also involved having to miss a few mortgage payments. By the time the insurance came through and was approved, even though the payment was retroactive it was too late. The late charges on top of mounting credit bills just dug a hole too deep and they could not keep up.

All it takes is one illness.

[Dr Fate]

21. Damn them and their irresponsible "America Dream" and "pursuit of happiness."

Okay- I hear you, but I'm not with you 100%.

I dont think regular old Joe's who were just trying to get their piece of the pie (like they were raised to believe they were supposed to do) are the ones who rigged the game AT ALL.

I thonk you have a point worth considering, but I say dont hate the player, hate the game and the rule makers/riggers.

[Festivito]

22. No. We need to respond, but not to take responsibility for this.

Responsibility lies with a complicit media, with a complicit Republican cabal, and on.

If you want to call the people of this country guilty/responsible for the slow encroachment of alienation of voter from vote count, voter from representative, voter from the truth about whom they elect, I can understand your point, but it's not enough guilt/responsibility for this huge mess created by people who are responsible, who are guilty -- and they know it.

[Hannah Bell]

23. bullshit. half the "american people" make less than $15/hour.

this meme of "it's your fault, americans" is used to take the focus off the folks who control & guide the economy, control & guide the media, & in fact control & guide the consciousness of most people with less power.

so much bullshit.

[johnlal]

24. Bullshit.

Are the American People in control of health care costs-- one of the leading causes of bankruptcy in this country?
Are the American People in control of gasoline prices, which have doubled in the past couple of years?
Are the American People in control of grocery prices, which are skyrocketing?
Or job losses?
Or home heating and power costs?
Those of us who operate small businesses have seen costs rise tremendously, and we haven't been able to keep up.
We can't afford to retire.
We can't afford long term care.

If the American people save their money in the bank, they lose value-- as the interest rates on deposits are far less than the rate of inflation. If the American people put their nest eggs in the markets, they jeopardize everything to the uncertain economy.

For a long time, the common wisdom was that buying real estate was the safest investment, because real estate always keeps its value. Can you blame us for investing in a nice home? It turned out that homes have lost value. What now?

[slipslidingaway]

25. The Century of the Self...

"If Americans were able to say NO once in awhile and not be so easily manipulated, if they were able to differentiate between wants and needs; companies might not be profiting off bad deals."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

"The Century of the Self is an acclaimed documentary by filmmaker Adam Curtis released in 2002...

To quote the BBC site:

To many in both politics and business, the triumph of the self is the ultimate expression of democracy, where power has finally moved to the people. Certainly the people may feel they are in charge, but are they really? The Century of the Self tells the untold and sometimes controversial story of the growth of the mass-consumer society in Britain and the United States. How was the all-consuming self created, by whom, and in whose interests?"

[davidthegnome]

28. I say no all the time, but...

That means as much to them as it means to a determined axe murderer. We said no to Bush, didn't we? Look how well that worked out.

It's pointless in my case anyway. My life is pretty pathetic and no amount of evaluation is going to change that. I do take responsibility for my faults, but this economic disaster isn't one of them. I've never had enough money to be a concern anyway, nor to be all that concerned with it. I haven't paid taxes in years because I haven't been able to find a job in years.

Are some American people greedy? Yeah. Are we probably all at least a little greedy? Yeah. Does that mean that it was the greed of the masses that created this disaster? No. People were manipulated by those they believed they had reason to trust. People who aren't economic experts or accountants and probably (most of them) can't afford their advice.

I refuse to take responsibility for something I had nothing to do with.

[G_j]

29. how many ppl purchased SUVs, while supporting war for oil? nt

[davidthegnome]

30. I don't know

Not a clue. I know people who drive SUVs, but the SUVs are generally ten years old when these people purchase them. The ones I know, anyhow.

I know I didn't. A few years ago I couldn't afford to have my 88 buick repaired, so I sold it to the company and have been without my own car ever since. Which hasn't been a problem as I haven't been able to find a job since then anyway.