"It is likely a lot of people just lost their jobs." - liberal economist Mark Thoma

[swag]

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2008/09/house-votes-aga.html

. . . it's not the stock market I care about, it's employment and growth. Even if this is not a catastrophe, you don't take this kind of risk with the economy. Even without a major crash, it's likely a lot of people just lost their jobs, though they don't know it yet. If the problems aren't addressed, it is likely to constrain credit, that in turn causes firms to cut back on new investment projects, and as they do, employment and growth taper off. You don't see the effects as a big drop off in employment all at once since investment projects can take years to complete and momentum from the past keeps the ball rolling. But as those projects end, if they are not replaced with new ones, employment and growth will suffer. And it's not just investment, people who sell cars, refrigerators, tractors, TVs, stereos, and so on, rely upon credit markets. If the credit isn't there, they aren't needed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. This is what many of us have been saying

and it will get ugly... and people will NOT get it until it happens

[Fresh_Start]

3. the ugly side of political idealogues

the GOP doesn't want to help the poor and down and out because 1% of the recipients are gaming the system

the Dems don't want to help the economy because 1% of the people are gaming the system (and becoming obscenely wealthy)

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Gets worst than that

the left wants a revolution and to eat the rich... but it is just talking a little revolution... they refuse to take the next step... organizing

People want higher wages, that won;'t happen until we take to the streets, for example

Now the other side, they are very well organized, thank you

[Fresh_Start]

11. much of the left is rich, they don't want to be eaten

if they believe the left will eat them, they will revert to Reagan democrats, count on it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

Oh I am not sure about that at this stage

but I posted this today regarding this... not that it has gotten too many folks even readying it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4119071&mesg_id=4119071

[Fresh_Start]

20. people who act will act defensively

people who jaw will continue to vent on websites

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. And a few will actually organize

I know... perhaps enough to get something good at the end of this mess

Not having too many hopes on that department any more

[Fresh_Start]

24. so many fingers to point

and people to blame, why do anything about it

the "I told you so" is so satisfying:banghead:

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. I did the I told you so post a week ago

and even said what needed to be done... at this point the let it fall crowd is entering delusional territory

[RoyGBiv]

19. A keyboard revolution ...

They want to fight the battle from their keyboards.

I wonder what they do when the Internet bill can no longer be paid.

This is just a freakin' travesty.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I know, posted a long essay on that

so far has gotten crickets.

Posted the link on this thread twice already

[phantom power]

2. He's right...

this is directly impacting the ability of businesses to maintain their lines of credit. My CEO is dealing with this right now. And yes, if our company lost its line of credit, a bunch of jobs would immediately be on the chopping block, possibly including mine.

[depakid]

14. Try talking sense the ideologues here

Theit mantra is burn baby burn. They don't care who gets hurt (including their ownselves and family members) so long as their hatred for Wall Street and banks is satiatied.

Not sure what's uglier- the igniorance and stupidity- or the wish that every other ordinary person shared in their miserty and misfortunes.

[phantom power]

21. I can't say I blame them. Some guy on NPR this morning said...

that Wall Street has our entire economy hostage. They took our economy, got filthy-rich off it, then ran the smoking hull into the ground, and now they're going to get a bail-out instead of a fucking jail sentence, and all because we have to be the grownups and somehow prevent what's left from getting sucked into the event-horizon along with the fake wealth that just evaporated.

Is that enough metaphors? I can do more.

[depakid]

25. If that's all there was to it, I might agree- indeed I do agree with accountability

and disgorging of ill gained profits.

On the other hand crashing the world economy (most don't understand this is a global problem)- at a time when we still have peak oil and climate change to deal with is beyond stupidity- it's self destructive self indulgence.

[phantom power]

27. That's what he meant when he said they've got the economy hostage.

We have to bail them out, even though they so richly deserve to be hung out to dry.

[HughMoran]

4. Mine will be gone

This sucks big time. Someone poke a stick in my eye for wanting to be able to support my family :(

[SoCalDem]

5. Here's the thing, though

Businesses that are unsustainable without constant borrowing are not all that "healthy".. A generation ago, people knew this...and now it seems, that NO ONE can even think of survival without "debt"..long OR short term..

When people spend their own "saved" money, they tend to make better decisions, than when they "sign on the line" and use someone else's money....and then hope that they will be able to "pay it off later"..

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Businesses have used lines of credit since the Templars invented

the damn letters of credit in the 12th century. This is what people refuse to understand

[depakid]

17. Not to mention that they're reliant on others to purchase what they're selling

[Ah Xoc Kin]

6. the point of the publics objection may be that

there is an overuse of credit in the United States

in a perfect economy no one would need to borrow except in
emergencies

[Fresh_Start]

12. bullshit

'perfect economy' does not equal no credit

[PeaceNikki]

8. Yeah.

:(

[prolesunited]

10. Stop talking rationally

Lets eat the rich instead.

[smoogatz]

13. Well, they are tasty if you cook 'em right.

And if I don't eat them, then the other choice is for my family to give them $9200, straight out of our pockets. Hmmm.... How do you tell if these critters are done?

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. And on that, enjoy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4119071&mesg_id=4119071

[brentspeak]

16. I'm not sure how "liberal" Thoma is

He's basically right down the center.

[swag]

18. I'm not sure how center your "center" is.

Regardless, this is not a swell day, and it's tragi-comical to me that people from OpenLeft and Firedoglake are crowing about this vote as a "victory for the left."

It's a big loss for most of us.

[librechik]

26. not to seem harsh

and believe me, I am sympathetic, since my hubby is under suspension at his union job right now.

But maybe this is the big hurt that makes enough people scream that a few of the sleepers will actually wake up and take an interest in this country's future. They've been letting the Prezbots handle everything, including religion and good lord, where have they taken us! Grab a bucket, we need to bail ourselves out!

[avaistheone1]

28. A lot of people have been losing their jobs for the last eight years,

now because the powerful in Wall Street will have to let go of their minions, are we supposed to shake in fear?

Their are many economists who say this bill could cause further deterioation in the economy and financial markets including the Chief of Congressional Budget Office as well as the the head of the Dallas Federal Reserve.

[swag]

30. If you think it's just financial workers who will lose their jobs, think again.

[avaistheone1]

32. They will be hit first and hardest and they have the most resources to take it.

However, Paulson himself said to CBS's Bob Schaeffer that even if the bill did not pass it would not lead to the Great Depression.

[PeaceNikki]

31. This pic on CNN page really kinda drives it home

[mhatrw]

33. Yes, Businesses need credit.

The question is how to get from here to there.

This is a just one far better solution than the bailout:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4136244