Florida couple divorces after nearly 50 years to get cancer care for wife.

[madfloridian]

This kind of situation breaks my heart. This is the direct result of the Bush domestic doctrine of cutting taxes, cutting spending, and saying if you are poor you deserve it.

This is the worst paragraph from the story, and I can not find any other verification of it. I have searched on several terms.

It's been easier for a single person to get help under the rules. That is, until recently. Now, as of July 1 of next year, it won't even help to go to this drastic measure because of cuts to the state budget.

The Florida Legislature plans to discontinue Medicaid payments to the medically needy, excluding pregnant women and children, and the elderly and disabled — a group that contains 40,000 individuals — effective July 1, in order to save the state nearly $700 million.

40,000 elderly and disabled men, women, and children will be cut from health care to save the state 700 million.

Here is more about the couple who divorced to get chemotherapy for her.



ERICA BROUGH/STAR-BANNER Rudy Friece had to divorce his wife of 48 years, Emily Friece, who has now passed away, so that she could get Medicaid for her chemotherapy treatments, which wouldn't be provided to her if she remained married.

From the Ocala Star Banner:

Medical costs force couples to divorce

Nearly 50 years later, following two children, seven grandchildren and two great-grandchildren, the couple divorced, for no other reason than that they couldn't afford the costs of Emily's weekly $2,800 chemotherapy treatments for terminal bone cancer.

After learning from a friend that by dissolving their marriage Emily could qualify for Medicaid, the couple walked into a drugstore, picked up a guidebook on dissolutions and then marched into an Ohio courthouse in February 2005, their $75 divorce petition in hand.

"He (the judge) told us, ‘This was the first. I've never given anyone a dissolution that had been married this long,' " Rudy Friece recalled.

This is just one event in many in the process of Florida taking away health care from the poor and needy. They seem to be proud of their policies, they seem to have no conscience.

The next person who says Charlie Crist is a moderate needs to remember that he signed on to these heartless policies.

Heartless Florida policies: Disabled Floridians Losing Services Under New Guidelines

In 2007 ,the budget-strapped Legislature voted to cut benefits to people with disabilities who get Medicaid money to pay for housing, job training, therapy and transportation. In the next two months, the state agency that manages the payments will begin rolling out the cuts.

The 31,000 people statewide who now receive an uncapped amount of money each year will be grouped into four categories, each with a different limit. That means some people will get less money.

State officials say the cuts are necessary in these tough economic times. They also say, however, that capping the payments will enable the state to serve more people.

..."The indigent-care plan, in which 19,020 Polk residents were enrolled during this fiscal year, must shrink to about 3,000 people to make up a deficit expected to be $14 million to $15 million, Assistant County Manager Lea Ann Thomas said.

..."Think about a woman with heart problems and insulin-dependent diabetes learning she can't stay on the plan even though her income is at, or close to, 100 percent of the poverty guidelines. Or a man who had heart attacks and has severe lung disease being told that the plan, which got him medication and doctor care, no longer is open to him. The man has been trying unsuccessfully for disability, said a friend who e-mailed asking where else he could go.

The Democrats are outnumbered here about two to one, but they still have voices. They should be speaking out loudly about this in public every day.

Instead it all goes through with little notice unless the newspapers cover it now and then.

The Democrats in Florida could be a vocal minority, and too often they are not.

[gateley]

1. America. This is shameful. nt

[madfloridian]

6. Yes, it is shameful

It's heartbreaking.

[Barack_America]

2. That's damned heartbreaking. Gotta love Republican compassion.

:grr:

[madfloridian]

4. It sickens me.

I asked a young twerp one day who was sounding off about getting rid of Social Security and Medicare...if he were willing to take total care of his parents and grandparents. Pay their medical bills, take them into his home and stay with them instead of going to work.

He said that would never happen to them. I said, think again.

[snake in the grass]

53. And family values.

I just don't understand why they can't pull themselves up by their bootstraps. I mean, this is the country of rugged individualism.

Whoever is responsible for this needs to spend the rest of his life behind bars. At least in Florida prisons they get good medical care.

Horrible story with a good ending: http://www.sptimes.com/2007/09/21/State/Full_pardon_begins_to.shtml

[snappyturtle]

3. Sad to say this type of story is probably going to become more and more frequent.

I had an elderly aunt and uncle in the 70's who were advised to divorce. They didn't. My uncle's insurance ran out after lengthy time in a nursing home following a massive stroke. Had my aunt divorced him she would have not lost everything, including her sanity. In the end, she died before my uncle....just frazzled and worn out with all the stress.

[colsohlibgal]

5. It's Shameful

The health care situation in the US is disgusting, there is no excuse except greed for it. Once it became a for profit situation we all lost.

I have seen the having to divorce thing in my own life, a close friend of mine and her husband had to do it. She came down with a debilitating disease and once she needed full time care they had to divorce so she could get assistance toward full time nursing home care till she died.

The system as is has to be blown up and replaced with a single payer universal model.

[madfloridian]

8. It's the GOP idea of personal responsibility

reaching it's ultimate conclusion...if you are rich you deserve it and if you are poor you deserve it.

Drown the government in the bathtub.

[deadmessengers]

7. My parents had the opposite case.

My folks were separated for 18 years, but could not divorce and move on with their lives because my mother would have been left ass-out healthcare wise, but my father had excellent health benefits. My dad didn't want to be married to my mother any more (no judgements from me as to why), but couldn't look at himself in the mirror if he left her without health insurance.

My mom passed earlier this year, and my father is getting married later this year to his girlfriend of 14 years.

[galaxy21]

13. that was nice of your dad

[mikita]

24. Thanks for sharing this...

I hope your father and his soon-to-be wife have a happy life. Your dad must be a special man.

[SoCalDem]

9. In twenty-first century America, it's the obligation of poor/sick people to die with dignity

and make it snappy.. can't be wasting resources on keeping them alive any longer than necessary..

Our "best in the world" medical care is only for those who can afford to plunk down the cash..all others must just die..

It's that simple, really..

(I'd use the "sarcasm" thingie, but I'm not so sure it really IS sarcasm..:(..)

[madfloridian]

11. There's not an appropriate tag....the sarcasm one is not enough.

Not enough to register the disgust.

[dgibby]

28. I believe you are describing

Henry Kissinger's "Useless Eaters" theory to a "t"!

[madfloridian]

47. Have you read some of the later posts? That is exactly what they are saying.

I am stunned.

[SoCalDem]

10. duped

[newtothegame]

12. Let me try to be a voice of reason in this conversation...

As a healthcare administrator in Iowa. True, our HC system has major issues and needs to basically be blown up and restarted from scratch. But this case, and many others like it, is not an insurance issue. It's an issue of an American mindset where patients (but most times their families) refuse to let go. These people have been married 50 years, making them approximately 70-80 yo. A 70-80 yo woman with terminal bone cancer should be in PALLATIVE CARE, celebrating the end of a good life with those 9 grandchildren and great grandchildren, not going to weekly chemotherapy sessions that will prolong a terminal life . For those of you not familiar with healthcare on an intimate level, we're spending somewhere near 75-80% of our healthcare dollars on a person's last few weeks of life. Think about that....more money is spent on your healthcare in the last few weeks of your life than for the previous decades (this holds true even for the oldest of us). And alot of this is because we're sustaining life for someone who many times is in pain and is simply ready to go. And it will only get worse as the population ages. This is a mindset issue.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bertman]

16. Thank you for the "other side" of this story. I agree with you that there are some cases where folks

should just recognize that they are not going to be cured, then go with dignity. I hope that I'll be able to do that when/if my time comes that way.

On the other side there's my wife's mom who's 76 and just spent a year and a half going through chemo, then radiation, now chemo again. We were sure several times that she was not going to make it, but she has. And she's doing so well that we are all astonished at her vitality and her return to a normal, active life.

The oncologists said that her breast cancer might respond to the treatments, but they basically gave her a couple of years to live IF the treatments were successful. That's been about 16 months ago. The massive cancer has disappeared although one tiny spot remains on her liver, so they are treating that with a special chemo process that costs $9500 per infusion. She got the bill last month. Between her medicair and personal insurance she's covered. (Thank the god who's supposedly up there watching over us but seems to have been on vacation for a few millenia now. I guess that's a short vacation in god time.)

She is very lucky to have a daughter who monitors her mom's health and meds and even goes to the appointments with her when she meets with her oncologist. Also, my wife is a Reiki master and works on her mom daily. I never saw anyone perform healing touch before my wife did it, but now I am a believer. My wife and her mom are two of the most positive people I've ever known. I imagine that helps in a situation like this.

Also, one note that is a little off topic but may be helpful to someone. When my mother-in-law was in her really BAD phases of treatment when she was weak and sick all the time, my wife would spend time with her every day, taking notes and analyzing the effects to see if the doctors' predictions were accurate. There were several times where my mother-in-law would have died had her daughter not been there to help her. I am absolutely convinced of it. She was reacting badly to the medicine and would not have had the mental or physical wherewithal to deal with it, so my wife took over and called the doctor and they changed her meds. I am absolutely sure that many many patients die because they don't have an advocate who looks out for them on a daily basis.

What worries me most about this Bailout Robbery is that the money we are going to end up spending on it is the very same money we need for some of the more important planks in Obama's platform. One being healthcare reform.

[newtothegame]

17. Thank you for your story

I agree, there's no one way to go about. And I 100% wholeheartedly agree about patient advocacy being SO important. Clinicians are far from perfect.

[madfloridian]

19. Do you thiink it's ok people should have to divorce to get needed health care.

Apparently your view is more respected than mine which is a sympathy view.

My post was not about end of life issues, you turned it into that without understanding that my concern is our pathetic state of healthcare.

It is NOT okay.

[madfloridian]

31. You are judging the family in the OP. Just like the new DUer is.

You do not judge people like that.

You missed the point of my post entirely. There is no "other side" to this sad story of the downfall of our country.

There is no "other side" to neglecting the least among us.

I suggest you read my post again....it was not about end of life issues. It was about caring.

This place is nuts today. DU is becoming cold.

[madfloridian]

18. I see my post is gone... but again I say the same thing to you.

You are making life judgements on other people.

That was NOT the point of my post.

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Your post is disgusting!

[madfloridian]

29. I so resent your speaking of my post as not being reasonable.

I find your responses dismissive to elderly people who have big decisions to make.

I am going to say say goodby and update my list.

[dgibby]

32. I have yet to see

an 'unreasonable' post prior to yours, so am confused about your implied assertion that a "voice of reason" is even necessary. I am a retired RN, and while I would not choose to prolong my own life in these circumstances, I would never deign to make that decision for others; I would, however, educate them re: choices, outcomes, prognosis, and then I would support whatever decisions they make. BTW, this is about inequality of access to care and the heartbreak it brings, not end of life issues. Maybe you should start your own thread, you make some good points about your topic.

[madfloridian]

33. The "voice of reason" stunned me. It angered me.

I am angry my post was deleted and that remained, turning my OP into something it was not.

[dgibby]

34. I can tell.

Didn't set too well with me, either. Don't know if the poster meant it, but it came across as condescending and dismissive (sort of like McCain's treatment of Obama at the debate). I appreciated your post-thanks! We sure could use more empathy in this country, especially since we're all in this together.

[demodonkey]

40. If they WANT to let go, they can let go. If they DON'T, they shouldn't be forced to.

This is not a mindset issue, this is a money issue. You are a self-described healthcare "administrator" and the whole last half of your post is about dollars, isn't it? Puh-lease.

Yes we might save a few dollars if we cut some terminal old woman off from the treatments that gave her and her family hope.

But then again we could absolutely save 30 cents or more on every healthcare dollar we now spend if we cut back on paperwork --- and administration -- that is inherent in our current greed-driven private insurance based system.

[truedelphi]

45. In certain ways I agree with you. the amount that we spend on an eldelry person's

Terminal care uses up vast amounts of resources. And often it isn't even helping very much.

On the other hand, just why the heck did this woman have bone cancer?

Used to be that bone cancer was extremely rare.

But we depend on petroleum products and huge corproateions spew out their industrial
smegma. So even the rarest of cancers are becoming very normal.

[madfloridian]

46. There is a lot of concern here today about spending money on the elderly

When did DU start getting like that?

[Hekate]

49. I agree with you. Now if we could just get good palliative care with all the pain meds needed...

... end of life would be a more reasonable proposition. Or just set about funding a rational yet compassionate health care system from the get-go.

In any case, I do not see the point of pouring chemotherapy into a dying person with no hope of recovery. Having watched my mother go through chemo for breast cancer at 72 (which she survived, dying at 82 of something else), all I can say is that for a person who is actively dying it seems like unnecessary torture. Psychological counseling and palliative care would seem to be far more compassionate.

My MIL had a major stroke in early June this year. She is 95. She is now ensconced in her living room (the hospital bed is too big for her bedroom), with a feeding tube and round the clock care. It's taken me awhile to reconcile myself to the fact that her sons are following her wishes, because although I'm sure she never expected to end up like this, she also would never admit to her own mortality. She has stabilized to the point that she could go on like this for a couple of more years. She has sleep-wake cycles, but it's hard to know if she recognizes anyone any more. After intense negotiation, at least my husband managed to get his brother and our doctor to agree to a DNR.

It's been a lesson for the family in planning ahead for ourselves. :-(

Edited to add: DUers who are alarmed that money gets factored into end of life care, please notice I have not inserted money considerations into my post.

Hekate

[madfloridian]

20. Stupid old me. I should have known the victim would be blamed.

I had forgotten how clinically cold DU had become.

I showed sympathy to those who are having their dignity taken away.

My post is gone. The others remain.

[newtothegame]

23. Sorry. I don't think it was the original message that caused the deletion...

But the childish response to an attempt at a real discussion.

[madfloridian]

26. Thank you for calling my response childish. You were judging others. Your post was cold.

But, hey now.....you won, didn't you. I was deleted for saying what people here say all the time.

Tough prevails....get ready to die...let go.

That is what you were saying.

I was not addressing end of life issues, I was expressing fear and understanding for what is coming.

You judged.

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. No bail out for them! Disgusting! No money for universal health care, no money for the sick, the

uninsured, the left behind! But $700B for fat cats on Wall Street! What a great Country! :puke:

[madfloridian]

22. Don't show sympathy here or someone will set you straight quickly.

It's the fault of the dying who are not ready to die, as someone said above.

What a sad sick country we have.

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. "What a sad sick country we have" I agree!

[madfloridian]

30. To the one who turned this into an end of life issue....

This post was about what our country has become now. It was not about that. You turned a post of sympathy into a flamefest about who gets to die and how fast.

I will no longer see your posts, and this is good.

America should be ashamed for re-electing George Bush. We should be ashamed for letting the GOP tur this into a cold and heartless country.

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. !!!

:thumbsup:

[bertman]

36. Madflo, I really appreciate your posting about this topic. As you can see I have a personal view on

it.

You are a very strong and articulate voice for so many topics of great import and interest to a lot of us who frequent DU. And I always look forward to what you have to say even if I don't always agree.

BUT, what I have noticed a lot lately is that you have a very low tolerance level for differing opinions and are very quick to call people out when their comments rub you the wrong way. Never mind that they may have a valid point--or even just a different point.

You're right, of course, that you were commenting on the sorry state of our healthcare (non-healthcare?) system in America. And, yes, newtothegame did slide off, though only slightly IMHO, into a sort of different perspective. But did it really deserve the vitriol you laid upon the poster?

I found the comments by newtothegame to be informative. Maybe I am too stupid or my judgment detector was low on batteries, so I missed the offensive part of the post.

Judging by the tone of this thread and your introductory statement I sense that, in person, you are very likely a compassionate and reasonable person not given to yelling and screaming invective in person to person disagreements. But maybe I'm wrong.

Perhaps next time you post something that is so emotionally fraught for you, you should just state right up front that other DU'ers can only agree with you and validate your statements. No divergence from Madfloridian's perspective allowed.

[madfloridian]

37. I have a low tolerance for people who judge those who are dying

and facing tough decisions.

You have been pulling this stuff on me a lot lately. If you don't like it, you put me down.

You won't get the chance again.

WHY THE HELL aren't you "emotionally fraught" over the tragic state of our health care. Why you do defend someone who comes here, calls themself the "voice of reason" who speaks of people who won't let themselves die?

Think about that.

[bertman]

44. I haven't been "pulling" anything on you. Mentioning that you are "going off" on other people

a lot lately isn't "pulling stuff". It's stating my opinion. I notice it because I read about every thread you post since, as I stated earlier, I find them informative and interesting usually.

As for thinking about it, you best believe I've been giving a whole lot of thought to the criminal state of our healthcare-for-profit system and end-of-life dignity stuff over the last few years. Not just my wife's family. Friends too. it's a very emotional issue for me, no matter what you may think.

Peace. We're on the same side here.

[demodonkey]

38. K & R. We are a nation of barbarians until we get single payer healthcare for ALL people of ALL AGES

Where there is life there is hope. And no one -- NO ONE -- should have the right or the gall to take either away from someone else.

[madfloridian]

39. I was wrong. We should let the insurance companies decide.

What our country should do now is pass an edict. It should state exactly how much of a chance a person has to live before offering them medical care.

That way we can be sure that all hope is killed more easily. We can be sure that only those with a certain percentage of a survival rate gets help.

Of oourse common sense should be used, but there is not enough info on the wife in the OP to make the hasty judgements some here have made.

I was wrong. Sympathy is out of place in this country now. Let the insurance companies, let the congress, let the legislatures make the decisions so we don't have to.

AND be sure not to get the doctors involved.

I would hate to use a sarcasm tag, because like SoCalDem above, I am too disgusted to be sarcastic.

I posted a thread of sympathy and fear for what our country is becoming. I was turned into the bad guy.

SO effing be it.

Welcome to DU...join the fray.

OK, I will put the :sarcasm: tag, but it just does not fully convey the disgust I feel at having a perfectly sensible post turned against me.

Oh, and one more thing....I WAS the voice of reason in the OP. The one who claimed that position of being the "voice of reason" was presenting the insurance companies side.

This was done by our FL legislature, so the whole twisting of the post was senseless.

Make me the bad guy, delete when I fight back, but I will stand up when I am right.

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. Some people are just heartless Mad. That's all you can chalk it up too, I guess.

:hug:

[madfloridian]

42. I am beginning to think...

that too many at DU are showing signs of that heartlessness now...not good at a time when we are all in trouble together.

[SammyWinstonJack]

43. Well don't let it get you down.

:hug:

[madfloridian]

48. There is a "gotcha" mindset here at DU lately.

It is not pleasant to see. Thanks for the nice words.

[Eurobabe]

50. Fucking sick that people have to resort to things like this.

:eyes:

Thanks for nothing Bush.

[madfloridian]

51. I post about a couple lacking health care....an insurance person comes here to defend the system.

Says they are the "voice of reason."

And others jump in with more tales of old sick people taking up space and time and money.

Of course there is a happy medium somewhere in situations.

But I wish some of you would read your posts again and catch the theme you are presenting of who lives and who dies.

AND not one person caught this paragraph....that FL is stopping medicaid payments to over 40,000 next year.

"The Florida Legislature plans to discontinue Medicaid payments to the medically needy, excluding pregnant women and children, and the elderly and disabled — a group that contains 40,000 individuals — effective July 1, in order to save the state nearly $700 million."

AND because I got upset about an insurance person saying I was not reasonable....others jumped in with both feet.

Some of you defend this:

"The Florida Legislature plans to discontinue Medicaid payments to the medically needy, excluding pregnant women and children, and the elderly and disabled — a group that contains 40,000 individuals — effective July 1, in order to save the state nearly $700 million."

I am waiting.

[L0oniX]

52. They would rather keep the high paying gov management jobs and cut services to the poor.

Bastards!

[Frisbee]

54. Compassionate conservatives...

an oxymoran if there ever was one.

[Sequoia]

55. My dad had to separate from our mother in order for her to be cared for.

And this was back in 1974. I was out of high school by then but it still made me cry. When he died she said she had always wished they'd get back together. Damn, now I'm sad all over again.

This is anoter sad and tragic story. Not tellling how many more there are out there.